• Author
    Posts
  • #120025

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 17:01:00

  • #120047

    jonathand
    Member

    A basic foundation of lessons backed up with living with a Brazilian girlfriend who speaks no English Heart

  • #120050

    Anonymous

    IMMERSION.

  • #120058

    mrtony4usa
    Member

    I agree 100% with Globetrotter!!

  • #120059

    Immersion INClUDING a girlfriend or boyfriend who you speak only Portuguese with (even if they know some English).

  • #120061

    irishvan
    Member

    Immersion…and learn the dirty words first…Thumbs%20Up

  • #120085

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=MovingSoon]Immersion…and learn the dirty words first…Thumbs%20Up[/QUOTE] Thumbs%20UpVery true MS. The last thing you want is to be having a passionate moment and then suddenly start sounding like her doctor! LOLLuckily I have an American friend who is totally fluent and taught me the relevant “dirty” words at the beginning – but now my girlfriend teaches me those that I don’t know.

  • #120106

    You also don’t want to make a fool out of yourself by not knowing dirty words. For example if the words “comer” and “preservativos” are any where near each other it has absolutely nothing to do with overly processed foods.
    well…normally it doesn’t

  • #120114

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 16:58:06

  • #120123

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil]I use english too much everyday.[/QUOTE]Me too! Stay off the internet!!
    Best Luck!!!
    … or if you insist … get on Orkut …
    DUNGA2009-05-26 08:01:20

  • #120131

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil]Hey, I see tons of posts and threads here but my question is simple, what really works to learn Portuguese? [/QUOTE] Being young!

  • #120311

    Milenko
    Participant

    [QUOTE=nikkij12185]You also don’t want to make a fool out of yourself by not knowing dirty words. For example if the words “comer” and “preservativos” are any where near each other it has absolutely nothing to do with overly processed foods.

    well…normally it doesn’t[/QUOTE] He he that’s funny. I remember I said one time Eu gosto de comer frango, and my girlfriend told me never to use that phrase again … About learning language I also prefer immersion and living with girlfriend who doesn’t know a word in english. You can try with watching divx movies with subtitles in portugues, quite usefull as well.

  • #120344

    acampos
    Member

    Have fun with the language. Start with music. Find some singers/bands you like, wrtie down the lyrics, start singing along. Read the comics, find newspapers and magazines, start chatting up people in the cafes, street, trade English for Portuguese, get some basic cd’s, books, classes, what-ever floats your boat.
    Boa Sorte,
    BobbyItaparica

  • #120398

    Anonymous

    Well Robert, I think somebody has to make you stop thinking in English, try to act liké Portuguése is the first language you are learning….start with easy everyday phrases… don’t make it too hard for yourself in the beginning, keep it light and fun to learn, your mind will absorb the unknown in a better way…. If you try the hard way(grammar), you will come to a point in time that you will be confused.

  • #120405

    GOOP1966
    Member

    Acho que voce pode fazer associações, muitas palavras são cognatas…além disso, seria bom se tivesse alguém para praticar também, on line. Aliás, é o que o pessoal deveria fazer, em vez de escrever em ingles….bjs

  • #120468

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 16:51:42

  • #120480

    GOOP1966
    Member

    Muito bem Robertin, que tal escrever algo sobre o que mais gosta no Brasil? (com “s”, por favor, Brasil com “s”)

  • #120524

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 16:51:31

  • #120530

    GOOP1966
    Member

    ok, Permita-me pequenas correções a fim de que você possa melhorar mais, espero que não se ofenda.
    a) gosto de = sempre com preposição “de”
    eu gosto de tudo
    b) Brasil = male = o Brasil
    Eu gosto de tudo do Brasil.
    Você poderia dizer agora que tipo de comida mais gosta!!!!

  • #120541

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=Kelly_cristina]ok, Permita-me pequenas correções a fim de que você possa melhorar mais, espero que não se ofenda.
    a) gosto de = sempre com preposição “de”
    eu gosto de tudo

    b) Brasil = male = o Brasil
    Eu gosto de tudo do Brasil.

    Você poderia dizer agora que tipo de comida mais gosta!!!!

    [/QUOTE] Kelly, também espero que não se ofenda, mas… Did it not occur to you that perhaps Robert isn’t comfortable with Portuguese yet, and your welcome attempts at helping him merely send him running to his dictionary? We don’t know his level of Portuguese yet. I know if I were starting out to learn Portuguese your responses would perhaps cause an element of panic. Plus I don’t really think the forum is a place to start instructing in Portuguese – answering queries, yes, but attempting to teach, no. Of course teaching Portuguese using just Portuguese works when face-to-face (you have the added inputs of gesture and body language) but not when using the written medium. Answering in Portuguese may be causing more problems than it solves. Se você não entende minhas repostas, claro você compreende sua situação Smile

  • #120543

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=DUNGA]
    … or if you insist … get on Orkut …
    [/QUOTE]
    No way you can learn decent portuguese on Orkut Dead

  • #120555

    irishvan
    Member

    portuguese comic books work well… MovingSoon2009-06-01 18:10:42

  • #120575

    acampos
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven][QUOTE=DUNGA]
    … or if you insist … get on Orkut …
    [/QUOTE]
    No way you can learn decent portuguese on Orkut Dead
    [/QUOTE]
    Cara pq vc nao gsta di Orkut? Tdo mndo gsta ne?LOLAki ta tdu lgal.Confused
    Yep Orkut is like portuguese evolving ito another vile lifeform. Kind of like ebonics in the states.

  • #120579

    GOOP1966
    Member

    [/QUOTE]

    Kelly, também espero que não se ofenda, mas…
    Did it not occur to you that perhaps Robert isn’t comfortable with Portuguese yet, and your welcome attempts at helping him merely send him running to his dictionary? We don’t know his level of Portuguese yet.
    I know if I were starting out to learn Portuguese your responses would perhaps cause an element of panic. Plus I don’t really think the forum is a place to start instructing in Portuguese – answering queries, yes, but attempting to teach, no.
    Of course teaching Portuguese using just Portuguese works when face-to-face (you have the added inputs of gesture and body language) but not when using the written medium.
    Answering in Portuguese may be causing more problems than it solves.
    Se você não entende minhas repostas, claro você compreende sua situação Smile

    [/QUOTE]
    Que eu saiba o fórum chama-se : learning portuguese. Penso ser esse o lugar para tentar aprender algo pela internet, além do msn. Além do mais, foi assim que aprendi inglês, com alguém me corrigindo. Fica difícil aprender sozinho. Se ele recorrer ao dicionário, é bom! Afinal, consultas acrescentam conhecimento. Por que não???? Agora, se ele ficar constrangido, acho que é ele quem deve dizer…não acha? Cada um recebe de um jeito. Eu não me ofenderia!Big%20smile

  • #120607

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 16:47:49

  • #120611

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil]hey actually i can hold a converstation (mind you my verbs do not work so well) but I can not write at all [/QUOTE] You’re halfway there then Robert. I can write Portuhuese too (mais ou menos) but the important thing if you live here is to be able to function in the language. Then you’re not so dependent upon your other half. And if you’re not embarrassed by any mistakes (which you shouldn’t be – it’s not your native tongue) then you’ll be fine. It’s communication that matters – you’re not learning Portuguese to pass GCSEs etc. Thumbs%20Up

  • #120623

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=bobbyitaparica]
    Cara pq vc nao gsta di Orkut? Tdo mndo gsta ne?LOLAki ta tdu lgal.Confused
    Yep Orkut is like portuguese evolving ito another vile lifeform. Kind of like ebonics in the states.
    [/QUOTE]
    I prefer http://www.tolicesdoorkut.com/ and http://www.orkutdebebado.com/ so I won’t have to look to find these gags:






  • #120627

    jonathand
    Member

    Whoever did the tacky C&P in the photo has no idea of British culture either (or maybe they did? Shocked)

  • #120628

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=globetrotter]Whoever did the tacky C&P in the photo has no idea of British culture either (or maybe they did? Shocked)[/QUOTE]
    Maybe not, but it shows what you can do with MS Paint LOL

  • #120629

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    Actually, the funniest pictures on these tolices and bebado sites are those of tattoos with spelling errors, that they proudly show like:
    Joãozinho
    Amor
    e
    terno
    on someones back LOL

  • #121145

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 16:32:34

  • #121353

    Simonjs
    Member

    Or you get a dictionary with long hair or you get private classes n start n get local friends to practice with ! :-)
    I gave many classes of Portuguese n call tell u that the students who get local friends speak faster. Learning by acquisition is still the best process. Saia do gueto!
    Cheers
    Claudia

  • #121496

    medrama
    Member

    [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil]Hey, I see tons of posts and threads here but my question is simple, what really works to learn Portuguese? [/QUOTE] Mix up with the locals and do not give up on your Portuguese course.

  • #121656

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 16:32:21

  • #123486

    Stuhr123
    Member

    Hello! What I find is that what works for one student might not work for another. One student might be a great musician so having a class with music and repetition is a good alternative since this student is a great listener. Another might be a great cook so learning through making local dishes might be fun (not only to learn the language but also culture). So, find what YOU like and ask your teacher to work your classes around that! Just by walking around is a learning experience, read the signs, talk to locals at the parks, bars…always carry a mini dictionary, take notes, don’t be shy or afraid to make mistakes! Enjoy and Smile!Wink

  • #123827

    medrama
    Member

    [QUOTE=Karita]Hello! What I find is that what works for one student might not work for another. One student might be a great musician so having a class with music and repetition is a good alternative since this student is a great listener. Another might be a great cook so learning through making local dishes might be fun (not only to learn the language but also culture). So, find what YOU like and ask your teacher to work your classes around that! Just by walking around is a learning experience, read the signs, talk to locals at the parks, bars…always carry a mini dictionary, take notes, don’t be shy or afraid to make mistakes! Enjoy and Smile!Wink[/QUOTE] Well said karita!

  • #123920

    Stuhr123
    Member

    Obrigada SolMilreu!!SmileKarita2009-07-16 11:51:12

  • #123926

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=Karita]Hello! don’t be ….afraid to make mistakes! [/QUOTE] Possibly the most important thing. When I first started learning Portuguese, I found myself rehearsing in my head what I wanted to say. Such a bad idea – noone has the time oe patience for a conversation if they have to wait during a pregnant pause for you to respond. This is the real barrier to fluency. If you want to say something – just go for it! You may make mistakes (gender, grammar etc) but your listener will be very forgiving. You’re not a native speaker of their language and they don’t expect you to speak Portuguese as well as they do. My girlfriend doesn’t speak English – so I get plenty of practice in speaking Portuguese – but I know I make mistakes now and again. However, COMMUNICATION is the aim of conversation and 99.5% of the time my listener understands me perfectly. And I absorb the correctlanguage during my day-to-day life. I also tell this to my English language students. It does wonders for their confidence – they show a marked improvement – and is especially appreciated as they know that I suffer the same problems as they do. Smileglobetrotter2009-07-16 12:02:03

  • #123936

    Stuhr123
    Member

    Yes Globetrotter, this is a barrier that adults have; this is one of the reasons that kids speak much faster a second language! When I teach languages, and I have a beginner student, I don’t worry about correcting every single mistake, otherwise, the student loses confidence and stops speaking!

  • #125423

    lgwen
    Member

    I’m going with the cold-turkey total immersion method, which is quite entertaining! (Spending an hour on this website is the most English I’ve had in a week.) It’s hard and takes guts but – as an English teacher who has watched hundreds of students learning language – I think it’s the best way. Besides, I’m providing heaps of brasileiros with amusement at my mistakes and confusion Smile

  • #125427

    edit_21
    Member

    Well done Nathalia I admire your courage ClapClapClapClapClap

  • #125431

    mrtony4usa
    Member

    I agree that immersing yourself totally in Portuguese is probably the best way. I had about 6 intense Lessons initially and then went everywhere, Restaurants, Bars, Work Meetings with my English/Portuguese Dictionary and overcame any initial shyness and kept learning more and more words, phrases. At the same time, I started dating a Brasileira who did not speak one word of English. More than that, a few days after we started going out, it was Christmas and she invited me to spend the Holidays with her and her Family. I arrived at her Flat on Christmas Eve (with my trusted Dictionary) to meet her 5 Brothers/Sisters, their Partners and many other Friends, to find that no-one spoke a word of English. So well and truly “immersed”, but for a guy who had never learned Languages before, it certainly helped!

  • #125980

    I have some background in Spanish – lived in Mexico for several months – and the languages are similar in some respects, but overall different. At the moment, I’ve been using Rosetta Stone for Brazilian Portuguese and have completed the first introductory unit. I feel that I have learned a lot of the basics, but a ton of the material is merely to get one aquainted with the language. Repetition is an understatement. I do feel hopeful. I have 5 months to continue independant study while in the US, and my roomate is doing the same. We practice often. I also bought a book called “501 Portuguese Verbs: fully conjugated in all the tenses” with the hopes of learning 5-10 verbs a day. It seems like a great book so far and explains all the terminology thoroughly. I’m confident that I will get a good basic understanding of the language by the time I get to Brazil. Wacko

  • #125999

    PEARLYGURL
    Member

    When it comes to immersion, booze certainly helps

  • #126003

    micko
    Member

    keith – you might like to take a look at this website re the Spanish. http://tltc.la.utexas.edu/brazilpod/tafalado/index.php
    Best Luck!!!

  • #126095

    Anonymous

    Well I’ll tell you the best thing that worked for me has been living with my mother in law who doesn’t speak a word of English…. and from the first day I got here she’s always talked to me like i knew what she was saying even though i barely knew 10 words when i got here…. now i speak it with no problems…. and understand… but i’m still learning and i’m sure it will take years til i can consider myself fluent.. so i would say the immersion method is best by far.

  • #126223

    Anonymous

    This can help a bit with some of the finer points if you speak Spanish… I just found it online this week… http://tltc.la.utexas.edu/brazilpod/tafalado/index.php
    And I agree that booze helps a lot! It makes you less scared to try. I am blessed and cursed in that pretty much all of my in-laws speak English beautifully! Anyhow, I know that once my husband and I are actually living in Brazil, I’ll be able to learn much more! :) I am great at reading and understanding, but I have a hard time coming up with the right words on my own. Plus, I LOVE the accent, but it’s hard for me to make those sounds myself…

  • #126230

    edit_21
    Member

    Yes booze does help loosen the inhibitions but it can also prevent you from remembering what it was you said !!LOL

  • #126231

    Mel_
    Member

    wow, just glad you guys are as sad (bored) as me!!!

  • #126235

    edit_21
    Member

    Yep. Sunday night. Sighhhhhh!

  • #126309

    [QUOTE=DUNGA]keith – you might like to take a look at this website re the Spanish. http://tltc.la.utexas.edu/brazilpod/tafalado/index.php
    Best Luck!!!
    [/QUOTE] Thanks a bunch for that resource. I have it bookmarked and will read over it shortly. I have a good understanding of Spanish so I’m sure it will help out.

  • #126311

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=KiteFlyer]Yes booze does help loosen the inhibitions but it can also prevent you from remembering what it was you said !!LOL[/QUOTE]If booze helped I’d be fluent by now surely Confused, I find people up heresound like they have a stutter or the sentence sounds like onecontinuous word, but I seem to get by with a smile and a cheeky cockney grin Wink

  • #126712

    Anonymous

    I always find myself attempting to say a lot more than I normally would bother to when I’m drinking. I used to tell my husband all the time that drinking was helping me learn better portuguese…. still does but now I’m ok enough to feel comfortable talking without it…

  • #127352

    thrillbill
    Member

    Ta Falado helped me alot, there is a textbook in the states for grammar called Ponto De Encontro that is the best I have used. It comes with web exercises and listening exercises.
    The biggest barrier is pronunciation, because so many consonants make different sounds than an english or spanish speaker expects. Then there are 3 times as many vowels sounds than spanish. You must also accent the accented syllables longer than you think. I never have had a Brazilian girlfriend that couldn’t speak english, but I speak better portuguese than alot of those people, even ones that are married. Hard work and perseverence payoff. Get away from the big cities where everyone speaks english.
    I recommend Taubate/Sao Jose dos Campos and Lencois for safety, really nice people and cheap living. Florianopolis has a beach, bit cold in the winter.
    Barra= Bah- hah, Marcelo= Mah- celo
    Farol= Farow
    Metro= MetrOOOH
    Precisar= precizah (s between two vowels makes z sound)
    diferente= gdeeferENtcheee
    bem= beng
    tudo= toodoo
    etc.

  • #128922

    freomike
    Member

    [QUOTE=3casas]IMMERSION. [/QUOTE]

  • #131429

    Anonymous

    I read, talk to people on MSN, and write a blog.
    Its seems to be helping me…but i doubt I’ll ever learn untill I go to some portuguese speaking country.

  • #131495

    majazac
    Member

    I found talking to kids a great way to learn. My ex-girlfriend had two – they had a huge amount of patience, would ‘demo’ words to me, and were very keen to learn the English equivalent. They also used less complicated words….. Bubbles2009-10-01 04:48:53

  • #131504

    815
    Member

    Bubbles- great observation.
    Art-o-Matic-Gold once more LOL

  • #131741

    majazac
    Member

    As an example, when shopping they would tell me the portuguese words for anything bought….I can remember abaxaci, manteiga, manga, queijo, etc, etc. Their treat was lots of pots of danone!

  • #131781

    Horia
    Member

    eu posso escrever em português mas eu não posso falar ou ouvir :( me ajuda! :'( eu falo com a minha namorada mas ela esta no brasil pra faculdade agora. eu moro no japão e não há muitas pessoas que fala português. eu escuto pra cançãos e eu leio livros. contudo, eu preciso alguém aqui para falar comigo! duexy2009-10-05 01:22:27

  • #131782

    majazac
    Member

    There are plenty of Brazilians in Japan!! Try craigslist or Facebook…Bubbles2009-10-05 09:46:30

  • #131792

    wtdknknm
    Member

    I find now I can generally speak Portugeuse just about ok enough that most Brazilians understand me. I do struggle a little in understanding the Brazilians, just can’t seem to tune in enough to understand more than about 25% of what is said. I find I can read pretty well although at times it is not always easy to get a full understanding on what has been written. (you understand the words but not always the exact meaning). In the North East the people do seem to “clip” their words a lot and rarely pronounce the “s” in a plural word. Also you can learn something such as “colina” for a “hill” but then find many locals use “morro” instead (which is also “to die.”). Certainly not an easy language if you are not already a Latin Language speaker. growler2009-10-05 07:53:54

  • #131845

    Horia
    Member

    [QUOTE=Bubbles]There are plenty of Brazilians in Japan!! Try craigslist or Facebook…[/QUOTE] thats true, about an hour and a half theres a community where nearly half of the population is brazilian or of brazilian ancestry. i’m just kind of hesitant to go without my girlfriend. i’m not sure how they take to American military members and I’m not the most outgoing person. I guess if I really wanted to improve my Portuguese language skills I would seize the opportunity anyway, ne?

  • #131846

    Horia
    Member

    also fun fact:

    Brazilians and Japanese both use the word “ne” for the same reasons in everyday speech.

  • #131854

    Stuhr123
    Member

    [thats true, about an hour and a half theres a community where nearly half of the population is brazilian or of brazilian ancestry. i’m just kind of hesitant to go without my girlfriend. i’m not sure how they take to American military members and I’m not the most outgoing person. I guess if I really wanted to improve my Portuguese language skills I would seize the opportunity anyway, ne? [/QUOTE] Brazilians are very open to any nationality, if you were dealing with “real”Japanese, they are reserved but the ones from Brazil are more outgoing (I’m half Brazilian/Japanese and lived half of my life in the US). The key is that if they see that you are trying, they will help you as much as they can! Join a Brazilian club or go to a Brazilian Consulate to search for these clubs. Also, check out the Brazilian grocery stores, they might have flyers or you might be able to ask someone there. If you like soccer, join a soccer team with the immigrants. A SMILE goes a long way!TongueGood-luck!

  • #131861

    Horia
    Member

    [QUOTE=Karita][thats true, about an hour and a half theres a community where nearly half of the population is brazilian or of brazilian ancestry. i’m just kind of hesitant to go without my girlfriend. i’m not sure how they take to American military members and I’m not the most outgoing person. I guess if I really wanted to improve my Portuguese language skills I would seize the opportunity anyway, ne? [/QUOTE] Brazilians are very open to any nationality, if you were dealing with “real”Japanese, they are reserved but the ones from Brazil are more outgoing (I’m half Brazilian/Japanese and lived half of my life in the US). The key is that if they see that you are trying, they will help you as much as they can! Join a Brazilian club or go to a Brazilian Consulate to search for these clubs. Also, check out the Brazilian grocery stores, they might have flyers or you might be able to ask someone there. If you like soccer, join a soccer team with the immigrants. A SMILE goes a long way!TongueGood-luck! [/QUOTE] maybe i’ll have to try that then :D. my girlfriend took me to a little family owned brazlian restaurant out there and we stayed for about five hours. this was back when i didn’t understand a lick of portuguese so she was constantly translating for me. i know i’m probably going to be saying “desculpe, eu não ouco ouvi. fala mais devagar por favor” the whole time, but i guess i’m never going to get a grasp on speaking/listening to the language if my only resource is the occasional phone conversation with my girlfriend and Alexandre Pires albums :P duexy2009-10-05 23:37:30

  • #131862

    Horia
    Member

    I would be more than grateful if someone could break down these phrases and help me understand why they mean what they mean.

    “Eu não to nem ai”

    “Eu não to nem aqui”

    I understand what each of the words mean individually, however when used how they are in the above sentences they make no sense to me. My girlfriend tells me this equates to “I don’t care”. I’m not sure if this is true or if this is what she tells me because she doesn’t know how to fully express it in English. I heard both of these in the song Final Feliz. “Que sera” I’ve heard it a few times in movies and read it in articles on the internet and understand it to mean “what will be”. However, I assume I am wrong because a majority of the time it does not make sense in the context (at least to me.) Can someone clear this up for me?

  • #131875

    Stuhr123
    Member

    [QUOTE=duexy]

    I would be more than grateful if someone could break down these phrases and help me understand why they mean what they mean.

    “Eu não to nem ai”

    “Eu não to nem aqui”

    I understand what each of the words mean individually, however when used how they are in the above sentences they make no sense to me. My girlfriend tells me this equates to “I don’t care”. I’m not sure if this is true or if this is what she tells me because she doesn’t know how to fully express it in English. I heard both of these in the song Final Feliz. “Que sera” I’ve heard it a few times in movies and read it in articles on the internet and understand it to mean “what will be”. However, I assume I am wrong because a majority of the time it does not make sense in the context (at least to me.) Can someone clear this up for me? [/QUOTE] Your girlfriend is right “eu nao to nem aí” means “I don’t care” but we really don’t use “eu nao to nem aqui”, he played with the words in the song since “aí” means “there” and “aqui”means “here”. “Que será” could be “what will be” you can hear this in the song “Que será, será, whatever will be, will be” but it varies depending on the context that is why you are a little confused! Don’t worry so much about translating every little thing, at your level, just be concerned about understanding the idea as a whole, otherwise, you might become a bit frustrated. For the moment, just try to communicate, don’t worry about how many mistakes you will make. Later, as you progress, I tell my advanced students that we will do a “tune up” where I will correct every little detail.

  • #131884

    lmaonade5
    Member

    “to” is actually “estou”, pronounced. It’s “Eu nao estou nem ai.”, literally ‘I’m not even there.”, which could mean “I don’t care.” You will hear “Sera?” a lot, meaning “Do you think that could be true?”

  • #131896

    Eu nao to nem ai = I don’t care, I don’t even want to think about it, I don’t give a *$#!
    Its a more dismissive “I don’t care” than you’d use when you’ve considered various options and you don’t prefer one over the other. It means more that whatever the topic at hand is its not worth your time or brainspace to even consider it.

  • #131898

    Anonymous

    Whatever!

  • #131899

    lmaonade5
    Member

    No…..that’s “sei la!” LOL

  • #131900
  • #131905

    Horia
    Member

    obrigado karita, nikki e bahiana! :D Another query: The word “jeito”: What do you that speak both english and portuguese translate this as? My dictionary translates this word as “skill” but most of the time, in the context its used it seems to mean something a little different. Thanks in advance for the help!

  • #131906

    lmaonade5
    Member

    You could probably translate it most of the time as “a way”, as in a way to do something, but used in, for a common example, “Nao tenho jeito.”, it includes the meaning of not having time, interest, a car to get somewhere, tools, money, etc., as well as ‘skill’. And then there’s the use in the infamous ‘jeitinho brasileiro’…….

  • #131908

    Horia
    Member

    [QUOTE=Bahiana77]You could probably translate it most of the time as “a way”, as in a way to do something, but used in, for a common example, “Nao tenho jeito.”, it includes the meaning of not having time, interest, a car to get somewhere, tools, money, etc., as well as ‘skill’. And then there’s the use in the infamous ‘jeitinho brasileiro’……. [/QUOTE] the hasty response was much appreciated bahiana :)

  • #131948

    lmaonade5
    Member

    I don’t think it was hasty (which has the meaning of carelessly fast). I think it was just quick.

  • #131996

    Horia
    Member

    my apologies, i guess i shouldn’t be so hasty in picking my words.

  • #132417

    jsmith432
    Member

    There is a lot of good insight in this thread and a few of the posts really hit home with me. Fear of speaking incorrectly has kept me silent in many social situations. This is something that I realize I must overcome. I sense that most Brasilians are pretty forgiving to gringos who mangle their language but do so with a smile and a friendly tone. One poster mentioned that he formed little sentences in his head while listening to conversation and I do the same. In my experience, being corrected on too many small errors tends to embarrass the speaker and might keep them (me) from being more assertive in their attempts to converse. After 10 months in Brasil and still struggling with the language, I am convinced that my main obstacle has been fear… as in:
    É melhor ficar calado e parecer um idiota, do que abrir a boca e dissipar todas as dúvidas.
    FALA!
    Abraço

  • #132420

    Stuhr123
    Member

    [QUOTE=jeem86]There is a lot of good insight in this thread and a few of the posts really hit home with me. Fear of speaking incorrectly has kept me silent in many social situations. This is something that I realize I must overcome. I sense that most Brasilians are pretty forgiving to gringos who mangle their language but do so with a smile and a friendly tone. One poster mentioned that he formed little sentences in his head while listening to conversation and I do the same. In my experience, being corrected on too many small errors tends to embarrass the speaker and might keep them (me) from being more assertive in their attempts to converse. After 10 months in Brasil and still struggling with the language, I am convinced that my main obstacle has been fear… as in:

    É melhor ficar calado e parecer um idiota, do que abrir a boca e dissipar todas as dúvidas.

    FALA!

    Abraço
    [/QUOTE] I understand what you are saying since I have had the same fear when I moved to the States. In the beginning, after I went out on a date, I would go over all the stupid mistakes that I made that night but when you find someone who is nice enough, they will not only help you but they will think that your mistakes are “cute”! And this can be just a friend who lived abroad and understand what you are going through so they will be more patient and not correct every single mistake that you make! Give some credit to yourself! Think of all the progress that you made! I am sure that now, you are not afraid to order something over the phone or even to pick up the phone! I remember when I was afraid to order pizza! The phone was my enemy! I couldn’t see the person’s lips or any type of gesture, how could I understand someone on the other end? I can tell you endless stories of how difficult it was for me when I first moved abroad but I prefer to remember all the ones that make me laugh. So, change your quote to “what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger!”and above all….”laugh at yourself!”LOL

  • #132488

    jsmith432
    Member

    Karita,
    Good advice. I crack myself up!
    Like the time I rode my bike to Ibirapuera and was dying for an côco but was unsure how to pronounce it and settled for warm water from my pack instead.
    Do what you fear most!
    Tchau

  • #132528

    Stuhr123
    Member

    Jeem86, You got it!

  • #132581

    NADO
    Member

    Robertinbrazil2012-02-21 16:27:28

  • #133662

    hannster30
    Member

    Hi guys, I’m thinking here, why dont you guys make a group with brazilians that wanna learn english and gringoes that are living here in Brazil and wanna learn portuguese? paiment free and i can garanted to you guys that it will be more fun and faster than a regular school

  • #134029

    Paulistinho
    Member

    Amongst much other,
    Change all your OS to portuguese (BR).Change your Browser, Skype and common programs to Portuguese – thatreally helps with vocab.
    Most of my really bad Pt is all those words above.
    Havinga Brasilian girlfriend who doesn’t speak english and is not interested inleanring english is the No.1 way to learn. Make sure she is not a viralata though otherwise you will learn to speak only the
    ‘parra pa pa pa, pa pa pa pa pa’
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZthNYozVwNM
    Avoidhaving a girlfriend who speaks a little english otherwise you will endup becoming an english teacher and learn little Pt.

  • #134038

    Ozzie girl
    Member

    There already is such a group. Check out http://www.livemocha.com

  • #134041

    [QUOTE=raphaaa]Hi guys, I’m thinking here, why dont you guys make a group with brazilians that wanna learn english and gringoes that are living here in Brazil and wanna learn portuguese? paiment free and i can garanted to you guys that it will be more fun and faster than a regular school[/QUOTE]
    Doing this you sometimes end up speaking Portingles. If you can’t translate a word, you end up using the word in your own language and hoping the other person understands. Or you make up new fun words like “atropolate” and just keep going and no one really learns how to speak correctly.
    Its best to avoid trying to teach and just concentrate on learning. Find a small local bar where no one speaks English, take a course or go to a gym where barely anyone speaks English and really try to suffer through the Portuguese even if you get strange looks at first. Having friends and/or a Brazilian gf or bf who speak to you in portuguese all the time and are willing to correct your mistakes is the biggest help you can get.

  • #134045

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=Kelly_cristina]
    b) Brasil = male = o Brasil
    [/QUOTE]
    I guess even more useful to state that all country names are male.

  • #134046

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=nikkij12185]
    Doing this you sometimes end up speaking Portingles. If you can’t translate a word, you end up using the word in your own language and hoping the other person understands. Or you make up new fun words like “atropolate” and just keep going and no one really learns how to speak correctly.
    [/QUOTE]
    I found that I ended up teaching more english than I was learning portuguese – mainly because such Brasilians already have foundation in english, its just they need to practice it with help and need to feel safe that you wont laugh at them. I have had Brasilians spend two weeks with me and their english has improved out of sight – incredibly. I start by adopting their limited vocab AND their peculiar accent and build them up from there. This way they dont feel embarassed about their accent nor their limited vocabularly.
    The problem with Brasilians is that they don’t have any experience with foreigners like that. Brasil is not multicultural.
    So when you ask a Brasilian to repeat something for you again more slower, they repeat it faster, the same string, without knowing how to simplify the sentence for you. And if you ask them a third time they repeat the same string again even faster than the 2nd time.
    Spaceman2009-11-08 12:13:59

  • #134048

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=HockeyFan]There already is such a group. Check out http://www.livemocha.com
    [/QUOTE]
    Just joined! Thanks! I am Spaceman.

  • #134053

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=jeem86] Fear of speaking incorrectly has kept me silent in many social situations.
    [/QUOTE]
    MOSTBrasilians can not speak portuguese (BR) correctly nor write. And less than 10% of the upper middle-class can speak english proficiently.

  • #134064

    lgwen
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman] [QUOTE=Kelly_cristina]

    b) Brasil = male = o Brasil

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess even more useful to state that all country names are male.

    [/QUOTE] I’m confused – what are you talking about? Some countries are masculine and others are feminine.

  • #134084

    Paulistinho
    Member

    Back to learning PT. I just realised my favourite website for dictionary/translations and variations and examples of usage now has SPEAK. You roll the mouse over the text and the Brasilian robot will pronounce the phrase for you:
    http://dictionary.reverso.net/portuguese-english/ser
    You have to highlight the blue text and then roll the mouse over it and a pop-up window to select SPEAK appears.
    Spaceman2009-11-08 19:38:56

  • #134087

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=Nathalia]

    I’m confused – what are you talking about? Some countries are masculine and others are feminine.

    [/QUOTE]
    I’m confused too. Which countries are feminine? What determines them being feminine? If they lost a war?

  • #134114

    I believe that most that in end “a” are feminine, with the exception of a few wierdos like Canada.
    Better question: Why is Paraguay feminine and Uraguay masculine? Maybe Spaceman’s war theory is right! ;)

  • #134281

    Anonymous

    O pais paraguai ou uraguai (the countries) are both masculine….. depending, you have different cases. This is the general rule…. a feminine…. o masculine… but not always O brasil…ends with l as O peru finishes in U and O chile with E….. So in these cases it’s the asticle that determines it. Every country that doesn’t end with A or O to determine if it is feminine or masculine… you refer it back to the O of O pais peru or O pais paraguai… both are feminine…. for example O pais holanda, like it ends on an A determines that it is masculine…

  • #134289

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Spaceman][QUOTE=Nathalia]

    I’m confused – what are you talking about? Some countries are masculine and others are feminine.

    [/QUOTE]
    I’m confused too. Which countries are feminine? What determines them being feminine? If they lost a war?
    [/QUOTE]
    simple rule, if it ends with an “a” it’s feminine, end’s with an “o” it’s male.
    So, “Estados Unidos de América” is a female, even if it won the war.

  • #134302

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven]So, “Estados Unidos de América” is a female, even if it won the war.
    [/QUOTE] “Estados Unidos daAmérica” … OsEstados Unidos da America … Macho …

  • #134307

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=DUNGA][QUOTE=sven]So, “Estados Unidos de América” is a female, even if it won the war.
    [/QUOTE] “Estados Unidos daAmérica” … OsEstados Unidos da America … Macho …
    [/QUOTE]
    OsEstados Unidos daAmerica
    Transsexual actually
    LOL

  • #134318

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven][QUOTE=DUNGA][QUOTE=sven]So, “Estados Unidos de América” is a female, even if it won the war.
    [/QUOTE] “Estados Unidos daAmérica” … OsEstados Unidos da America … Macho …
    [/QUOTE]
    OsEstados Unidos daAmerica
    Transsexual actually
    LOL
    [/QUOTE]
    America’s victories have been rather ambiguous. That would explain their transexual nomenclature. LOL
    I am not aware of any War the Americans have won. They entered WW2fashionably late. They had no interest in the war other than collectingthe spoils from the exhausted armies. They could have chosen eitherside and tipped the scale.
    Same goes for WW1.
    Theymade a mess of Vietnam. Having learnt their lesson there (massiveprofits for the military industiral complex) they invented a new war and invaded Iraqand Afghanistan. They still havn’t ‘won’ that.
    Havingall but exhausted their Bogeyman war, a marvellous entreprenuer calledAl Gore invented the War on Climate Change. Americans tend to enterwars that can’t be won, have no descript enemy and quickly lose anyfocus above arms-sales.
    The only war they did win, albeit ‘by definition’, was the American War ofIndependence, kicking out the British and throwing their Earl Grey inthe river, only to have them return a few generations later under theguise of the Federal Reserve and debt-slavery.
    The American military is now a private army. The Americans (the people) lose every time.

  • #134319

    What about the Mexican-American War and the Spanish-American war? I’m pretty sure the US won those.Wink

  • #134320

    majazac
    Member

    And the US Civil war… the Americans won that one (just).Bubbles2009-11-11 11:14:01

  • #134321

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    The war on drugs ??
    A tie ??

  • #134341

    Haven’t been on this site for quite a while and came back to check it out as I am still stuggling to become fluent in Português. Long way to go, but making some progress. For me, Rosetta Stone has helped a lot, but I am not sure how good it would be without having the benefit of living with a Brazilian for 8 out of the last 12 months. However, the combination of the software and having a native speaker available to help has turned out to be a good combo for me. Just thought I would throw that out if anyone is considering Rosetta Stone. Not sure how this thread turned to US wars, I sort of skimmed through the posts just wanting to see what others may be recommending for learning Português, but I have to reply to your comment sven. No way is the war on drugs even close to a tie. It is a complete failure as I believe any kind of prohibition is doomed to be. Looks to be even more of a disaster in Brazil from what I have heard.

  • #134445

    eybazigar
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman] I am not aware of any War the Americans have won. They entered WW2 fashionably late. They had no interest in the war other than collecting the spoils from the exhausted armies. They could have chosen either side and tipped the scale.[/QUOTE] Were you out that day when Japan attacked the US? Did you forget about the whole war in the Pacific?

  • #134448

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=KirkMcD][QUOTE=Spaceman] I am not aware of any War the Americans have won. They entered WW2 fashionably late. They had no interest in the war other than collecting the spoils from the exhausted armies. They could have chosen either side and tipped the scale.[/QUOTE]

    Were you out that day when Japan attacked the US? Did you forget about the whole war in the Pacific?

    [/QUOTE]
    Aware yes.
    The second world war started in september 1939, the US only entered because the Japanese sucked them into the sino-japanese war in December 1941.
    If that hadn’t happend, would they have entered ??

  • #134470

    jonathand
    Member

    The USA is making damned sure they’re early for WW3 though!

  • #134486

    Anonymous

    well… they know how to start a war… but I doubt they will ever win one !!, And assuming they will, can there really be a winner ??????

  • #134496

    Literacy in world history is not a prerequisite for posting here I see. Maybe this will help since they don’t teach world history in Brasil, or no one pays attention. Maybe this will help:

    American War of Independence = US Victory

    Northwest Indian War = US Victory

    Quasi War = US Victory

    Barbary Wars = US Victory

    Creek War = US Victory

    War of 1812 = Stalemate/Status Quo Antebellum

    Peoria War = US Victory

    Seminole Wars = Indecisive

    Black Hawk War = US Victory

    Texas Revolution = Texan/US Victory

    Mexican-American War = US Victory

    American Civil War = US (Union) Victory

    American Indian Wars = US Victory

    Spanish-American War = US Victory

    Philippine-American War = US Victory

    World War One = Doesn’t count since it had a limited participation, but fought O.K.

    World War Two = US/Allied Victory (Accredited for solely defeating Japan, and to a smaller extent Germany and Italy)

    Korean War = Stalemate

    Bay of Pigs Invasion = US Defeat

    Vietnam War = US Tactical/Military Victory, US Strategic/Political Defeat

    Cambodian Campaign = US Victory

    Invasion of the Dominican Republic = US Victory

    Invasion of Grenada = US Victory

    Invasion of Panama = US Victory

    Cold War = US/NATO Victory

    First Persian Gulf War/Desert Storm = US Victory

    War in Somalia = US Victory

    < id=”gwProxy” =””>< =”jsCall();” id=”jsProxy” =””>

    journeyer2009-11-12 20:49:08

  • #134506

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=journeyer]just wanting to see what others may be recommending for learning Português, but I have to reply to your comment sven.

    No way is the war on drugs even close to a tie. It is a complete failure as I believe any kind of prohibition is doomed to be. Looks to be even more of a disaster in Brazil from what I have heard.

    [/QUOTE]
    Where would our children get all their smack if it wasn’t for the US invasion of Afghanistan?
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12707
    I found changing all my OS programs to Pt very helpful – XP, Skype, Firefox – everything.
    I need some help with typing Pt characters on a US keyboard. Can anyone recommend the best way for that?
    Spaceman2009-11-12 21:44:55

  • #134507

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman]I need some help with typing Pt characters on a US keyboard. Can anyone recommend the best way for that? [/QUOTE]
    I guess you have a laptop or you could just buy a local keyboard for about R$15. What I do is change keyboards in XP from ‘US’ to ‘United States-International’. Go to Control panel, then Regional and Language Options, then the Language tab, then click Details in the Text services and input languages section, then settings, then add English(United States) – United States-International, then Apply … or something like that. It doesn’t change the keyboard much but can use the single quote mark (apostrophe) to make Portuguese characters. You have to play with it a bit to learn how.
    Best Luck!!!

  • #134508

    [QUOTE=Spaceman][QUOTE=journeyer]just wanting to see what others may be recommending for learning Português, but I have to reply to your comment sven.

    No way is the war on drugs even close to a tie. It is a complete failure as I believe any kind of prohibition is doomed to be. Looks to be even more of a disaster in Brazil from what I have heard.

    [/QUOTE]
    Where would our children get all their smack if it wasn’t for the US invasion of Afghanistan?
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12707
    I found changing all my OS programs to Pt very helpful – XP, Skype, Firefox – everything.
    I need some help with typing Pt characters on a US keyboard. Can anyone recommend the best way for that?
    [/QUOTE]
    Youngsters still use smack these days? In Brazil? I think that died out as the drug of choice here several decades ago. Seems to be beer and pot here in the US for the white cracker criancas, and crack cocaine remains the top choice for inner city dwellers(think favela).
    Agree with Dungas comment about changing the keyboard United States – International through control panel, that’s what I did for being able to use the Português accents. Free and effective.
    < id=”gwProxy” =””>< =”jsCall();” id=”jsProxy” =””>
    what the heck is that???

    journeyer2009-11-12 22:38:46

  • #134535

    Paulistinho
    Member

    Back to Portuguese. Some good tools for typing I have found are these Firefox plug-ins, used together:
    Dictionary Switcher
    https://addons.mozilla.org/pt-BR/firefox/addon/3414
    Toggles between the installed dictionaries and displays the currently selected dictionary in the status bar ..
    This allows you to toggle between your dictionaries, where your dictionaries are used for auto-correct, i.e. when you type a word not recognised in the current dictionary it gets underlined in red and you can right-click and select the suggested corrections.
    The two dictoinaries I am using for English and Portuguese(BR) are below. However there are other choices, so if anyone can add to that please do.
    Portuguese(BR):
    https://addons.mozilla.org/pt-BR/firefox/addon/3257
    English(UK)
    https://addons.mozilla.org/pt-BR/firefox/addon/3366
    US English:
    https://addons.mozilla.org/pt-BR/firefox/addon/3497
    Canadian English:
    https://addons.mozilla.org/pt-BR/firefox/addon/3653
    You can chose whatever dictionaries you want.
    Down the bottom right-hand corner near the Tray will appear a symbol which allows you to toggle between dictionaries while you type in this forum.
    its totally wicked!
    ————————–
    Back to war and kicking American’s asses:
    Journeyer, most of those ‘wars’ you listed were simply battles. Half of them are cold war battles.
    Regardingthe cold war it was apparently a group of 8 Russian Jews who collectedthe spoils from the wall coming down. So I don’t see how “theAmericans” ended up winning that!
    Regarding Panama, as typicalof all of the US’s Central and South American interferences, you’d getalot from a doco called The Panama Deception.
    The most centralrevelation to all these battles is that none of them were in theinterests of the American people but in the interest of private bankingregimes. The Bay of Pigs was all Bush Senior for his Zapata oilcompany. Bay of Pigs invasion was actually code named Operation Zapata.
    The 1964 military coup of Brasil was flanked by the US navy offthe Atlantic coast, as was Pinochet’s regime off the Pacific coast. Andthese dictatorships were maintained for 20 years by the CIA with covertmeans like Operation Condor – death squads kidnapping and murdering South America’s best and brightest.
    US sovereignty was definitivelylost in 1913. A good book on that is The Creatures from Jekyl Island byE. Griffin. Remember, Hollywood is where dreams are made – As you areaware there is a special division of Homeland Security called M.I.B.and it is thanks to them that galactic Aliens have not succeeded ininvading America – at least that’s what my five year old thinks.
    Butsince this is not the forum for such rubbish, I suggest we go into PMif you want to continue. I always enjoy a good argument about historyas I learn by arguing. Just want to press the point that America is runby corporations and anyone who is proud to be American today must be anidiot or joining a militia and preparing for revolution.
    Andto all those Vets returning home, I guess you should be informed thatyou have all been added to DHS’s Terrorist WatchList as they areterrified you will become disgruntled and join patriot militias onceyou settle back in and find out what the middle-eastern warring wasreally about.
    http://www.google.com.br/search?q=Returning+Vets+DHS+terrorist+watchlist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:pt-BR:official&client=firefox-a
    Yes, yes I know – You thought you were fighting the terrorists right? Nope, YOU are the terrorists. Confusing?
    Spaceman2009-11-13 08:24:52

  • #134541

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Spaceman]
    Yes, yes I know – You thought you were fighting the terrorists right? Nope, YOU are the terrorists. Confusing?
    [/QUOTE]
    Not at all.

  • #134560

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    American Indian Wars = US Victory
    Wasn’t that the genocide of the Native American people. Really something to be proud of!Confused
    Invasion of Grenada = US Victory
    LOL
    Grenada has a population of less than 100K and NO REGULAR ARMY. Some victory.
    LOL
    Cold War = US/NATO Victory
    The cold war was no war.
    LOL

    First Persian Gulf War/Desert Storm = US Victory

    If the US won, then why are they still fighting Confused

    War in Somalia = US Victory

    “The Battle of Mogadishu led to a shift in American foreign policy. The Clintonadministration became increasingly reluctant to use military intervention in Third World conflicts peripherally related to the national interestor national defenseof the United States, such as the Rwandan Genocide, the mass murder of an estimated 800,000 to 1,071,000 ethnic Tutsisand moderate Hutusby Hutu militia groups in Rwandain 1994.”

    sven2009-11-13 12:20:32

  • #134574

    Paulistinho
    Member

    What about the US Propaganda War? – VICTORY.
    The Persian GulfKuwait Propaganda War was brilliant – that PR firm Hill &Knowlton’s baby incubator story was incredible but the Americans bought it, and in they went to stop the baby killers!
    “If I wanted to lie[about baby incubators], or if we wanted to lie, if we wanted toexaggerate, I wouldn’t use my daughter to do so. I could easily buyother people to do it.”
    –Saud Nasir al-Sabah, Kuwait’s Ambassador to the United States and Canada

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_Nayirah
    – not as brilliant asthe yellow cake and WMDs story……
    Mymost recent Fav was Hilary Clinton’s visit to Pakistan to sell the Waron Terror and Al Queda decided to help her out by blowing up a market place killing 100 poorPakis in Peshawar just hours after her arrival.
    http://www.google.com.br/search?hl=pt-BR&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:pt-BR:official&hs=6iL&q=Peshawar+Clinton+Blackwater&start=0&sa=N
    When Bush was citing that oldsaying from out Texas, “Fool me once, shame on you……….[Earpiece:No!!!!!!! Bush don’t tell them that one!!!]……Ya fool me can’t getfooled again”
    Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

  • #134576

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Spaceman]
    When Bush was citing that oldsaying from out Texas, “Fool me once, shame on you……….[Earpiece:No!!!!!!! Bush don’t tell them that one!!!]……Ya fool me can’t getfooled again”
    Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A[/QUOTE]
    Yes, that one is about as smart as the North Carolina contestant for miss Teen USA who said that Americans can’t point out the US on a map because they don’t have maps LOL

  • #134605

    dare2move
    Member

    Go to the supermarket….there is a whole bunch of stuff that you will recognise and a whole bunch of fresh stuff that you will have no idea what to do with…..ask as best as you can….and the most important thing…..is SMILE…..SmileSmileSmileyou will be amazed at how far you get…..ashamed to say that the above would not work in most parts of the UK…….

  • #134628

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven]
    Yes, that one is about as smart as the South Carolina contestant for miss Teen USA who said that Americans can’t point out the US on a map because they don’t have maps LOL
    [/QUOTE]
    “It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person
    so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have
    such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the
    offense.” (Miller, 1993, p. 4)
    Miller, W. I. (1993). Humiliation. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press
    …..As Miller (1993) perceptively observed in the quote that opens this article, and as Charles Darwin (1871) sagely noted over a century ago,
    “ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge”
    (p. 3).
    Here’s the whole article:
    http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
    —–
    The future for ‘America’ appears so uncertain I can’t imagine it will end like Germany or Japan being humiliated to then build their esteem back over the next half century. For the old ‘America’ it looks they will be destroyed from within.
    Humiliation? Untenable; We went to the moon!
    Spaceman2009-11-13 19:52:46

  • #134629

    [QUOTE=Spaceman]
    Yes, yes I know – You thought you were fighting the terrorists right? Nope, YOU are the terrorists. Confusing?
    [/QUOTE]
    Spaceman, you obviously have an issue with Americans. I am an American and I am not a terrorist. I am also proud to be an American and not stupid as you suggest. Too bad for you that you don’t have any respect for our people or culture. Most people here are not like that at all. I was not aware that people on this site had a problem with Americans. Guess maybe I am not welcome here. I personally know several Brazilians and live with one, and none of them show this type of hostility towards Americans. I am able to discuss all types of issues with them and although we do not always agree, many times we do not agree, we are able to laugh it off and don’t result to calling the other terrorists or stupid.

  • #134633

    [QUOTE=sven]American Indian Wars = US Victory
    Wasn’t that the genocide of the Native American people. Really something to be proud of!Confused
    [/QUOTE]
    Come on man, you are kidding right? The way the Portuguese treated both the native inhabitants of Brazil and the African slaves they imported was less than something to be proud of.
    Any way, did I say anything about being proud? I am merely stating the fact that saying America has never won a war is not factually accurate at all.
    And if you want to remove yourself from the Portuguese history, I wasn’t actually here either during the Indian wars, and neither were any of my family before me. I am of Welsh descent, not English, and my family arrived here much later. America is just about as big of a melting pot as Brazil anyways. Why do you have such a problem with America? Is picking on America in vogue now in Brazil?

  • #134635

    Paulistinho
    Member

    I dont have a problem with Americans Journeyer. Dont take it that way.
    When threads get like this Steel Rat comes in and cleans them out. Hemust have been caught in one of those clever American DIY rat traps:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV9woxUshuA
    Peanut Butter: manteiga de amendoim.
    Someone should pass that one on to the favelas. (maybe the rats will wisen up though)
    [QUOTE=journeyer][QUOTE=Spaceman]
    Yes, yes I know – You thought you were fighting the terrorists right? Nope, YOU are the terrorists. Confusing?
    [/QUOTE]
    Iam able to discuss all types of issues with them and although we do notalways agree, many times we do not agree, we are able to laugh it offand don’t result to calling the other terrorists or stupid.
    [/QUOTE]
    Read what I wrote about “terrorists” again. It was the DHS who have added returning US Vets to the Terrorist watchlist.
    [QUOTE=Department_Of_Homeland_Security]
    the return of military veterans facing significant challengesreintegrating into their communities could lead to the potentialemergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable ofcarrying out violent attacks
    [/quote]

  • #134636

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=journeyer]
    I am of Welsh descent, not English, and my family arrived here muchlater. America is just about as big of a melting pot as Brazil anyways.Why do you have such a problem with America? Is picking on America invogue now in Brazil?

    [/QUOTE]
    I’m Welsh decent too. I don’t understand what it is with American school system which makes you all so ‘proud’ to be American. You all proudly wave your flags while international bankers are pulling the rug out from under you and exhausting your military fighting wars which you have no interest in.

  • #134637

    Spaceman, sorry if I misinterpreted what you said. We are a little sensitized to the terrorist thing here lately, as we very recently had what many, including myself, consider a terrorist attack on a military base. It’s not a good situation here now and most of us are very weary of our own government and it does lead to being a little edgy. It seemed like you and sven were ganging up on me in an all out anti-america campaign, lol. Thanks for clearing that up.

  • #134638

    [QUOTE=Spaceman][QUOTE=journeyer]
    I am of Welsh descent, not English, and my family arrived here muchlater. America is just about as big of a melting pot as Brazil anyways.Why do you have such a problem with America? Is picking on America invogue now in Brazil?

    [/QUOTE]
    I’m Welsh decent too. I don’t understand what it is with American school system which makes you all so ‘proud’ to be American. You all proudly wave your flags while international bankers are pulling the rug out from under you and exhausting your military fighting wars which you have no interest in.
    [/QUOTE]
    We are proud of our heritage, the system set in place by the beliefs of our founding fathers, and our constitution, and the fact that we built through freedom of enterprise and hard work one of the greatest economies the world has ever seen. We are far from proud of our existing tyrannical, corrupt, and socialist leaning (so called) leaders. Most of us here want to return to what we were so proud of, individual and financial freedom. I think we will achieve it, but it is going to be quite a fight. My personal views are very much like those of our founding fathers in that I am a Libertarian. All Libertarians are for personal and financial freedom(meaning we are liberal capitalist) and we are all opposed to any war in which the war is not necessary to protect ourselves from attack.
    If you are interested, you can see more here. http://www.lp.org.

  • #134639

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=journeyer]
    We are proud of our heritage, the system set in place by the beliefs of our founding fathers, and our constitution, and the fact that we built through freedom of enterprise and hard work one of the greatest economies the world has ever seen. We are far from proud of our existing tyrannical, corrupt, and socialist leaning (so called) leaders. Most of us here want to return to what we were so proud of, individual and financial freedom. I think we will achieve it, but it is going to be quite a fight.
    [/quote]
    its a bigger fight than you realise. I doubt you personally would be an example of one of the patriots who has the strength of character to face it. And if you can’t face the problem then you can’t solve it.
    From some things you have written I can see you are still one of the goofballs who think that muslims did 9/11.
    Americans are the most brainwashed people in the world.
    its sad, basically. Its just sad watching a once great nation be infiltrated and gutted from the inside out.
    [quote]
    My personal views are very much like those of our founding fathers in that I am a Libertarian. All Libertarians are for personal and financial freedom(meaning we are liberal capitalist) and we are all opposed to any war in which the war is not necessary to protect ourselves from attack.
    If you are interested, you can see more here. http://www.lp.org.
    [/quote]
    Most of what you say I agree with until the very last sentence which was THE most critical deception you have suffered with 9/11. Its the Doctrine of Pre-emptive War (Bush Doctrine) and it didn’t exist pre-9/11.
    The LP also promote it:
    “Mark 9/11 Anniversary by Targeting Terrorists Overseas While Respecting Liberties at Home, Says Bob Barr” – So respect liberties at home but dont worry about the rest of the world’s liberties and humanitarian rights….
    The thing I have enjoyed most about being in Brasil for the last three years is not one damn word about “Terrorists”. In Australia I thought I was going to have a psychotic episode if I heard “Terrorists” mentioned one more time again.
    Spaceman2009-11-14 12:40:57

  • #134686

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=journeyer]Spaceman, sorry if I misinterpreted what you said. We are a little sensitized to the terrorist thing here lately, as we very recently had what many, including myself, consider a terrorist attack on a military base.

    [/QUOTE]
    Why would you consider the Fort Hood massacre a “Terrorist Attack” and not the Virginia Tech shootings?
    Is it simply because the shooter was muslim faith? And he didn’t attack civilians. He attacked US military. So how can that be a terrorist attack?
    Seung-Hui Cho, killed 32 people (School kids) and wounded many others
    the Fort Hood massacre killed 12 people.
    How come you are calling that a terrorist attack?

  • #134687

    Paulistinho
    Member

    Did you understand how Propaganda works?
    An American is more likely to be killed from lightening bolt than from Terrorism.
    So why isn’t your mainstream media warning you every night and 100 times a day about lightening bolts? Why isn’t Congress passing legislation to protect Americans from the threat of Lightening Bolts.
    What sickens people outside the US is how could you American citizens become so bottomlessly gullible?

  • #134715

    Paulistinho
    Member

    Anyway, journeyer, I do have the solution for your fallen republic. Its quite simple – Its identifying the problem which is the problem.
    Here is the problem:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
    The lib party, the dem, the GOP – all bought and paid for by the same party. The international banking oligarchy – yeh, the ones you kicked out in your revolutionary war. Well, they came back almost 100 years ago now.

  • #134745

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=KirkMcD][QUOTE=Spaceman] I am not aware of any War the Americans have won. They entered WW2 fashionably late. They had no interest in the war other than collecting the spoils from the exhausted armies. They could have chosen either side and tipped the scale.[/QUOTE] Were you out that day when Japan attacked the US? Did you forget about the whole war in the Pacific? [/QUOTE]

    Aware yes.

    The second world war started in september 1939, the US only entered because the Japanese sucked them into the sino-japanese war in December 1941.

    If that hadn’t happend, would they have entered ??

    [/QUOTE] Fortunately for Europe, Hitler was so worried about the possibility of the USA joining the war in Europe he persuaded the Japanese to attack America to ‘distract’ them from Europe. Not a good Idea as it turned out. As the war in Europe was mostly won by the Russians, the possibility of Russia over running all of mainland Europe would have meant the Americans joining in anyway. I really don’t think it is appropriate, however, to underestimate the contribution that the USA made to the lasting peace and freedom of Europe. The Nazis were defeated, was justice ever better served?

  • #134751

    Paulistinho
    Member

    I dont know if defeating the Nazis was justice or not. First I would like to decipher between what was post-war psyop propaganda and what was real.
    The WW2 psyop propaganda continues today unabated. Anti-Nazi Myths of WW2 pervade all western culture and media. In most cases you are forbidden to question any established ubiquitous myth else risk vilification.
    For example I saw a very enjoyable film recently called I Served The King of England, about the life of a waiter in Prague and his years circa the german occupation. I was disappointed later in the film however, despite being amused by the rendition, that the myth of Hitler’s Aryian Breeding Program was promoted in passing, and an unsuspecting audience would assume that something of this manner occurred under the Nazi regime.
    Well it didn’t. And not one WW2 historian will claim it did. Nonetheless, in the minds of the masses, myth prevails over both fact and rational thinking. You won’t have trouble finding 1000s of American comments on YouTube who still think Osama is hiding in Afghanistan/Pakistan and that the Taliban did 9/11 and that the Taliban must be genocided. I read Americans today claiming God had commanded they genocide the Taliban, and also Americans angry with the limp-wristed government because they should use Nukes on Afghanistan.
    And I am sick of it……
    thanks to the stupid american people we are all going to suffer a One World Government in the next decade and so back to your comment, “Was justice ever better served” with the defeat of the Nazis? Well was it? If 50 years later what we have is a Big Brother surveillance grid and a one world government then what was it all for? And what would have pan-continental Europe been like under a peace-time Nazi regime?

  • #134754

    Paulistinho
    Member

    “Hitler was so worried about the possibility of the USA joining the warin Europe he persuaded the Japanese to attack America to ‘distract’them from Europe. “
    Well that doesn’t make so much sense to me based on the little I know. However i know this much:
    1.Japan had an allied Treaty with Germany hence if Japan attacked the US, the US could declare war on Germany.
    2. There was alot of political unrest in the US regarding Roosevelt’s ambitions to enter them into the European war.
    For example this is Charles Lindberg’s anti-war speech just months before Pearl Harbour which gave Roosevelt the political weight to enter the US into Europe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUnoqPLUPLk
    3. As what many historians decipher as a deliberate provocation of Japan, Roosevelt and his drum beaters had organised a boycott on steel and iron imports to Japan, practically suffocating their economy.
    4. The US had already cracked Japans communications codes and hence knew exactly when and where and how they were planning to attack. Rather than get the navy fleet out of Pearl Harbour they were deliberately left there to suffer the horrendous US casualties (3000+) required to shift American opinion into support of entering a major OS war.
    I could talk alot more about the NEW Pearl Harbour (3000+) called 9/11 but speaking with most Americans about that is like trying to speak with a mother about the evidence that her husband is raping their daughter.
    Spaceman2009-11-15 18:26:31

  • #134755

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman]I dont know if defeating the Nazis was justice or not. First I would like to decipher between what was post-war psyop propaganda and what was real.

    The WW2 psyop propaganda continues today unabated. Anti-Nazi Myths of WW2 pervade all western culture and media. In most cases you are forbidden to question any established ubiquitous myth else risk vilification.

    For example I saw a very enjoyable film recently called I Served The King of England, about the life of a waiter in Prague and his years circa the german occupation. I was disappointed later in the film however, despite being amused by the rendition, that the myth of Hitler’s Aryian Breeding Program was promoted in passing, and an unsuspecting audience would assume that something of this manner occurred under the Nazi regime.
    Well it didn’t. And not one WW2 historian will claim it did. Nonetheless, in the minds of the masses, myth prevails over both fact and rational thinking. You won’t have trouble finding 1000s of American comments on YouTube who still think Osama is hiding in Afghanistan/Pakistan and that the Taliban did 9/11 and that the Taliban must be genocided. I read Americans today claiming God had commanded they genocide the Taliban, and also Americans angry with the limp-wristed government because they should use Nukes on Afghanistan.

    And I am sick of it……

    thanks to the stupid american people we are all going to suffer a One World Government in the next decade and so back to your comment, “Was justice ever better served” with the defeat of the Nazis? Well was it? If 50 years later what we have is a Big Brother surveillance grid and a one world government then what was it all for? And what would have pan-continental Europe been like under a peace-time Nazi regime?

    [/QUOTE] I was only responding to comments made in regard to WW2. The Nazis were the cruellest invaders the world has ever known and executed their cruelty on a scale beyond anything anyone could previously imagine. To ask what Europe would have been like under the unmitigated terror of a Nazi regime, rather suggests to me that your history lessons don’t go back far enough. Anyway, Russia defeated the Nazis, without America Europe would have replaced one evil (Hitler) with a marginally lesser evil in Stalin.

  • #134756

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]

    I was only responding to comments made in regard to WW2. The Nazis were the cruellest invaders the world has ever known and executed their cruelty on a scale beyond anything anyone could previously imagine.[/QUOTE]
    Well you cite that as though its an established fact. And that is the manner in which Americans (especially) will enter argument regarding Germany circa 33-45.
    But what ‘examples’ of how the Nazis are set apart from the way the UK fought the war, or Stalin, or the Japanese, or the Americans?
    You see your argument relies on a presumption of fact. The fact is that the US had a War Pysop division and after germany was defeated the next greatest challenges were to 1. Denazify the german population and 2. Justify to all the mothers and wives back home why their children and husbands died? What did they die for? – Now thats a tall order buddy.

  • #134757

    Paulistinho
    Member

    Anyway we better give this up cause SteelRat is going to delete it all anyway.

  • #134761

    enchantbeau
    Member

    Well first off, I am English, so I am not biased in favour of America, however, your failure to accept the facts of history and replace them with a blurry conspiracy theory, simply doesn’t add up. And requiring examples of differences between the Nazis and the allied forces that opposed them seems to be the words of a holocaust denier. Are you?

  • #134763

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman]Anyway we better give this up cause SteelRat is going to delete it all anyway. [/QUOTE] I think Steelrat is more concerned by personal abuse than non-abusive debate, even if the thread has slipped a long way past ‘what really works to learn Portugeuse’.

  • #134765

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]Well first off, I am English, so I am not biased in favour of America, however, your failure to accept the facts of history and replace them with a blurry conspiracy theory, simply doesn’t add up. And requiring examples of differences between the Nazis and the allied forces that opposed them seems to be the words of a holocaust denier. Are you?[/QUOTE]
    O.k. So you are saying that the only thing which differentiates the Nazis from the war crimes of the other states in WW2 is the Holocaust?
    Have you seen Schindler’s List?
    The propaganda surrounding the release of that film was that all the original wartime footage was in black&white and the recreated/fictional footage was in colour. Do you remember that?
    There is a scene in it which is in black&white. It is of what looks like 10000s of bodies burning in an open field and there is this conveyor belt used to get bodies to the top of the pile. Do you remember that footage?
    Well this is what I am talking about. Propaganda like that forwarded deliberately as real or as fact when not one historian will deny that that footage is fake. But they just very dishonestly slipped that piece of propaganda in and 99% of the audience bought it as genuine footage of Nazis piling 10,000s of jews onto an open bonfire – total fiction but who cares?
    Have you seen the scene where there is soap purportedly made out of jewish people? Well there is not one historian today who will claim that ever happened. All WW2 historians and all the jewish holocaust historians will admit to you that Eisenhower’s War Pysop division and the Russians fabricated all of those horror stories.
    That is what I am talking about.
    How can we intelligently discuss matters of history which affect our lives today when we don’t even know which of it is true and in many matters, such as the suffering of the jews during WW2, we are vilified the moment we discuss matters which are obvious frauds regarding that whole circumstance.
    But back to my point: You are admitting to yourself that the ONLY aspect of the Nazi regime’s activities which you consider defines them as the most evil regime the modern world had seen is the so called Holocaust???
    And yet half of the imagery you have in your head about the suffering of the jews is admitted fraud and yet without rebuke no-one can stop Hollywood continuing to promote horror stories that never happened and that not one historian today will claim happened. They KNOW that 99% of the audience walks away believing that is what happened. That is the whole intention of the film. Its propaganda. And not one mainstream media review will criticise them for that open field bonfire falsehood.
    So, other than the Holocaust, what else about the Nazis makes us confident that it was the right thing to do to sacrifice millions of lives in defeating them? That in order to stop the Nazis from exterminating 6 million people, 54 million civilians and soldiers had to die?
    Because that is what you just said? – You just implied that it was worth it because we saved the Jews from genocide?
    There are alot of atrocities about WW2 which are not reported by the victors because it makes them look bad. And the victors will always demonise the enemy as much as they can. How else are they going to convince farmboys to drop their pitch forks, put on a uniform, grab a gun, jump on a boat to a foreign land and dodge bullets?
    Who was it?
    [quote=Hermann Goering]

    This is a confirmed quote from Hermann Goering as he was interviewed in his jail cell by a German speaking U.S. Army intelligence officer, Gustave Gilbert, during the Nuremberg trials.

    The following conversation is from Gilbert’s journal:


    “Why, of course, the people don’t want war,” Goering shrugged. “Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?”

    “Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany.

    That is understood.

    But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.”

    “There is one difference,” I pointed out. “In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.”

    “Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

    It works the same way in any country.”

    This “we we we” the western middle-class suffer from. We were just canon fodder for an elite cabal of power players. “we” are nothing but debt slaves. Serfs. And most middle-class people are too brainwashed to accept that and by accepting it then be able to do something about it.
    I am so sick of hearing Americans say, “We went to the moon” – No you didn’t. There were 400,000 people who worked on the Apollo project. If anyone went to the moon it was them. You had nothing to do with it. If YOU went to the moon, then YOU illegally invaded the middle-east and YOU murdered 1 million innocent iraqis.
    [/quote]
    Spaceman2009-11-15 19:55:18

  • #134771

    enchantbeau
    Member

    Wow! The jews weren’t saved from genocide. Nor were the slavs, gypsies and other sub humans (as the Nazis called them). The cruelty of the invasions of Poland and Russia (where Hitler decreed an operation of nihilism) the inhuman deportation of Jews from all European countries, the callous murders of innocent civillians everywhere the Nazis went. If that isn’t just cause to try to stop them what would be? And if just the extermination of more than 6 million people in concentration camps doesn’t define them as the cruellest and most evil rgime in the history of mankind then what do you want? Some sort of statement that the Nazis were ‘misunderstood’?

  • #134772

    enchantbeau
    Member

    Also as Goering was one of the principle players in this evil, I don’t think his opinions count for much really. The history of the world has got us where we are are today, it can’t be changed. The democracy or lack of that we have today is a result of this history. You can’t rewind the tape and say let’s do it again only better/different!

  • #134773

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]Wow! The jews weren’t saved from genocide. Nor were the slavs, gypsies and other sub humans (as the Nazis called them). The cruelty of the invasions of Poland and Russia (where Hitler decreed an operation of nihilism) the inhuman deportation of Jews from all European countries, the callous murders of innocent civillians everywhere the Nazis went. If that isn’t just cause to try to stop them what would be? And if just the extermination of more than 6 million people in concentration camps doesn’t define them as the cruellest and most evil rgime in the history of mankind then what do you want? Some sort of statement that the Nazis were ‘misunderstood’?[/QUOTE]
    The common thread you have there is still Holocaust Holocaust Holocaust.
    “The cruelty of the invasions of Poland”
    Did you know that Germany and Russia were allied in that invasion? That the deal was the Russians would get 2/3 of Poland, basically Warsaw and all of the east and that the germans would essential get back the Polish Corridor which was predominantly german speakers and originally german territory before WW1 ended?
    “invasions of Poland and Russia (where Hitler decreed an operation of nihilism) “
    And the nuclear bombs America dropped on Japan were not policies of nihilism?
    the callous murders of innocent civillians everywhere the Nazis went.
    Are you talking about during the war? No? Really?
    Israel wants to dismantle Iran which they see as an existential threat.
    First they need to invade Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan and establish bases there to launch a war against Iran.
    Hitler, after realising the people behind Churchill/Chemberlain and Roosevelt were planning to make war against germany, had to move fast to seize strategic territory and prevent an invasion.
    “the inhuman deportation of Jews from all European countries”
    It was the nazi regime’s opinion that jewish bankers and communities were conspiring against germany throughout Europe, inside of germany, and from the UK and the US abroad. You probably are not aware but world jewry had been banging the war drum of annihilation against germany since 1933 when Hitler was elected. Of course, not all jewish people were invovled. At least 50% of European jewry were fully assimilated and intermarried with europeans. But it was basically no different in strategy than how the US rounded up every Japanese American after Pearl Harbour and threw them in prison for 3 years. Imagine now that the Brasilian government has all our addresses with amnesty they then came and threw us all in prison for three years.
    “And if just the extermination of more than 6 million people inconcentration camps doesn’t define them as the cruellest and most evilrgime in the history of mankind then what do you want?”
    Well some 60 million people were killed in WW2. Only 2 million of those are said to have been soldiers. Also most of the deaths in concentrations camps are said to have been from typhus which became endemic during the last year of war as germany was broken.
    No, I think that in the western middle-class “the Nazis” has a totally different usage and meaning than what they actually were and what they actually were doing. And we can thank Hollywood for that.
    We are being dished the same propaganda crap regarding muslims today.
    Spaceman2009-11-15 20:22:35

  • #134776

    Paulistinho
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]Also as Goering was one of the principle players in this evil, I don’t think his opinions count for much really. The history of the world has got us where we are are today, it can’t be changed. The democracy or lack of that we have today is a result of this history. You can’t rewind the tape and say let’s do it again only better/different![/QUOTE]
    Well Delco the neoconservatives who got the US into the middle-east and roused otherwise good middle-class american boys into mouth-foaming mussie-hating mass-murderers certainly used all the techniques refined and described by the Nazi party’s Ministry of Propaganda.
    And the US and Russians certainly didn’t hold your opinion about “don’t think their opinions count” when they were fighting over who would get which Nazi scientists, and the US opened up the secret Operation Paperclip and imported 1000s of Nazi scientists and gave them them new identities and jobs at NASA and other military R&D labs back in the US.
    And I’m sure the Americans didn’t mind too much when those name Nazi rocket scientists put them on the moon 25 years later.
    My point again is: The history we have been brought up on through Hollywood, mainstream book publishers, and mainstream media is very far from what was and is going on.
    Spaceman2009-11-15 20:29:03

  • #134778

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman]Anyway we better give this up cause SteelRat is going to delete it all anyway. [/QUOTE] Or at least move it to the off-topic section maybe – where it can continue unabated!

  • #134780

    enchantbeau
    Member

    This is really a bizarre argument, 60 million people died, in the sort of terror none of us now can imagine. I don’t honestly believe you are so insentive to the suffering of these people that you refute the blame for all this misery lies squarely on the Nazis and the Japanese imperialists. To switch this argument back to now: if a mugger comes up to you in Rio demanding your money or your death, and you punch him firmly on the jaw and break his neck, who is to blame for his death, you or him?

  • #134783

    Paulistinho
    Member

    Dont post in this thread anymore. SteelRat is going to delete half of it anyway. I have moved all the posts over to Off-Topic. Hopefully heshe will let them stay there…

  • #134787

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman] [QUOTE=delco]Also as Goering was one of the principle players in this evil, I don’t think his opinions count for much really. The history of the world has got us where we are are today, it can’t be changed. The democracy or lack of that we have today is a result of this history. You can’t rewind the tape and say let’s do it again only better/different![/QUOTE]

    Well Delco the neoconservatives who got the US into the middle-east and roused otherwise good middle-class american boys into mouth-foaming mussie-hating mass-murderers certainly used all the techniques refined and described by the Nazi party’s Ministry of Propaganda.

    And the US and Russians certainly didn’t hold your opinion about “don’t think their opinions count” when they were fighting over who would get which Nazi scientists, and the US opened up the secret Operation Paperclip and imported 1000s of Nazi scientists and gave them them new identities and jobs at NASA and other military R&D labs back in the US.

    And I’m sure the Americans didn’t mind too much when those name Nazi rocket scientists put them on the moon 25 years later.

    My point again is: The history we have been brought up on through Hollywood, mainstream book publishers, and mainstream media is very far from what was and is going on.
    [/QUOTE] So you are saying the Nazis were a wholesome bunch of lads, intent only on creating a world utopia and all the mass murder and terror was invented by their enemies to justify going to war with them? And sorry globetrotter, you are right, this is so way off topic, and pointless. Still I guess we have all wasted some of our valuable lives arguing fruitlessly like this, for me it’s the first time with a holocaust denier and I am old enough to have known people with first hand experience of the terror he so glibly wants to wash away.

  • #135761

    Ozzie girl
    Member

    OK. Back to the original thread. I like Rosetta Stone. I’m on level 3 and just beginning to catch on to people speaking in conversation after 6 months. At least I can get my point across most of the time.

  • #136468

    Jabber Jones
    Member

    What always worked for me was avoiding depending on Americans:)
    But seriously the best thing is to just immerse yourself. Within a month I was understanding conversations. My moment of clarity happened when I all of a sudden understood what my girlfriend and her friends were saying about me :) I started laughing and they had a priceless look of embarrassment on their faces
    At the beginning I was lost, when Brazilians spoke it seemed like it was one long word between breaths. I attacked it by trying to understand one word, then two of each sentence. Then I could get a gist of what they were talking about. I then learned words by context. Over the weeks I focused on getting the gist of what they were saying, rather than translating things. There was just no way to keep up to what they are saying, especially at the beginning.
    I had support from my Brazilian wife, who was a teacher of Letras, so she always was helping correct my syntax. But most of the work was talking with my employees and her family. Each day was a little more understanding. I spoke English at home with my wife and Portuguese everywhere else. Within six months I was having dreams in Portuguese, and spoke without an accent.
    One of the best phrases to learn is: “Como voce dizer ……………………”
    Or ” Desculpe, sou estrangeiro, Voce vai precisar pacienca com meu portugues”
    Most brazilians will listen a little better to what you are trying to say to them and help you. Most love it when a foreigner makes the attempt to speak the language.
    Just my two cents… Good luck!!

  • #136508

    mrtony4usa
    Member

    A weird experience at the Policia Federal yesterday was when one of the Receptionists, when I entered on the Ground Floor, repeatedly kept trying to correct my Portuguese pronounciations with a sarcastic smile.

    I couldn’t work out whether she was being kind to me by trying to help with certain words or merely was taking the pixx… I was so tempted to return the sarcasm by asking how good her fxxking English was…but held my tongue as I wanted to enter, collect my Protocol and get the hell out of Lapa !

  • #136722

    Jabber Jones
    Member

    [QUOTE=RichB]

    A weird experience at the Policia Federal yesterday was when one of the Receptionists, when I entered on the Ground Floor, repeatedly kept trying to correct my Portuguese pronounciations with a sarcastic smile.

    I couldn’t work out whether she was being kind to me by trying to help with certain words or merely was taking the pixx…
    I was so tempted to return the sarcasm by asking how good her fxxking English was…but held my tongue as I wanted to enter, collect my Protocol and get the hell out of Lapa !

    [/QUOTE]
    I had the same thing happen, and didn’t keep my toungue:) My despachante rolled his eyes and said “gringos” and we were able to get upstairs. But from then on I waited out in the street while he did things.

  • #137243

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Spaceman][QUOTE=Nathalia]

    I’m confused – what are you talking about? Some countries are masculine and others are feminine.

    [/QUOTE]
    I’m confused too. Which countries are feminine? What determines them being feminine? If they lost a war?
    [/QUOTE]
    Australia is feminine, amongst a sh*t load of other countries. You sure you speak Portuguese?

  • #139425

    gisellesmith
    Participant

    I ‘ve lived in bh,since i was born(i’m brazilian)
    And,I’m here to say that if you need help ,you can ask me….
    Becausei’m still learning english,and i know that learning another language isvery dificult(Me desculpe pelos meus erros de inglês)..lol
    you can send me quetions in my email,and then i will help yoU!!

  • #156384

    Fritz
    Member

    I spent a year in the interior of SP state (Birigui) in 1969 as an exchange student. Nobody in town spoke English – total immersion from day one, plus no Internet, no books or newspapers in English, nothing. I was semi-fluent within 3 months and completely fluent in 6. By the time I came home I actually had a little trouble with English for a couple of days!
    It was very painful for the first month or two but worth it in the end. Immersion does the job.
    Now I’m thinking about retiring in Floripa so I’m going back for only the second time in all these years – far from fluent now but I know I’ll get it back once I’m hanging out with brasileiros again.

  • #156387

    micko
    Member

    Let us know how you like the changes since 1969.
    Best Luck!!!

  • #156877

    Anonymous

    I am Brazilian and I have studied English since 14 years old in Public School. I liked so much foreign Language that I decided to go to a Brazilian College to graduate in Translation, Portuguese-English. I remember what horror was the first day in the College, all Brazilian teachers introduced themselves all in English, the most classes were in English, I was so lost:- but I didn’t give up so easily. The worst class for me was Conversation and Simultaneous Translation, oh my God, I was scared at death to be called by the teacher to answer questions and talk in English. One day, the same teacher told us something that I’ve never forgot. She said, if you want to learn any foreign language, do the maximum of copy as you can like when you do when you learn to write and read when you are a kid. This what I did, and this that worked for me. I got the lessons, I wrote down in English first and after I translated into Portuguese and so on. I wrote and wrote and copied and translated. I got the lyrics of musics and musics and copy, translated and listened and repeated. I went to the theaters to watch a movie that I’ve already watched before and I tried not to read the subtitles (Indiana Jones for example) and tried to get used to hear in English. After that I started to be more confident so that I when I came to the U.S. it wasn’t so bad at all. But even nowadays, my husband sometimes doesn’t undertand what I am saying (I have a problem to do not pay attention what people say, I am very distracted even in Portuguese) so, we had and we still have a lot of troubles with that but because of this problem:-))))) When I came to America, the Americans were “confused” because they didn’t know what kind of “nice” accent was that???? They asked many times if I was French, if I was Italian. When I said, no, I am Brazilian, they opened a BIG SMILE, I don’t why:-))))) Sometimes I got so frustrated here in the U.S., I though I was pronouncing properly and they didn’t understand I was trying to say. This happens to me all the time yet. I did a test with a Canadian teacher in Brazil and she told me how big was my vocabulary. She was amazing how many words I knew, she said…you always have a kind of rabbit to come out of your hat, like a magician and this was awesome for her. On the other hand, she told me the same thing, you need to pay attention what people are saying before jump up and answer. This is my big problem but I have lived here for more than 10 years and I am still think my English is a shi…. but the Americans like and they understand me and they say I have a very good English. The same for you guys in relation to Portuguese. One thing I teach my husband, don’t say OH-BRI-GA-DO, say BRI-GA-DO. BRI-GA-DO (man), BRI-GA-DA (women)….Hope to help in some way:-)

  • #157022

    Anonymous

    Self-teaching myself Portuguese has been a real ordeal for me

    First of all, Im in Minas, and minaros do to Portuguese what hill-folk from West Virginia do to english, basicly butcher it until it’s unrecognizable to other Brazillians. My wife is a brasillara raised in the US most of her life and she has no patience to teach me much. She says talking to other brasillaros all day gives her a headache so she wants to come home and talk english with someone, so emersion is out So everything came in bits and pieces. Reading books, watching television, downloading programs on the internet etc etc First off I learned basic words and phrases, but even then you have to delve into the different levels- pronunciation, grammer, memory Pronunciation takes understanding that english speaks out of the front of the mouth, while portuguese is from the back of the mouth and a little out the nose. ‘frinstance- sao, mao and nao rhymns with cow Sim ryhmns with seen, m is more like n ‘coes rhymns with coins At this point I communicate a lot with words, rather than whole sentences, with some gestures thrown in. I call this “Indian talk” (white man come, kill buffalo, Indian starve!) “Garson? Mais uma cerveja, favor!” KISS-keep it simple stupid I can say port, I can read port, hearing it said to me is the problemo grande I have a little speech prepared for when someone starts rattling off paragraphs in portuguese to me at a hundred miles an hour “Eu su Americano, fala portuguese pouco. Entou, fala devegar e simpla, talvez eu vu intente, ok?” That usually slows them down When im in an important situation, like getting instructions or directions, Im better off saying to them “Eu pedi perguntas, vc fala sim, nao ou talvez” with lots of hand gestures Not speaking portuguese made me feel real isolated and alone, now i can at least butt into conversations and watch “Brazil Urgente!”

  • #157027

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Al Morrison]

    Self-teaching myself Portuguese has been a real ordeal for me

    I have a little speech prepared for when someone starts rattling off paragraphs in portuguese to me at a hundred miles an hour “Eu su Americano, fala portuguese pouco. Entou, fala devegar e simpla, talvez eu vu intente, ok?” That usually slows them down When im in an important situation, like getting instructions or directions, Im better off saying to them “Eu pedi perguntas, vc fala sim, nao ou talvez” with lots of hand gestures Not speaking portuguese made me feel real isolated and alone, now i can at least butt into conversations and watch “Brazil Urgente!” [/QUOTE] Al, you don’t need to say the whole sentence Eu su Americano, fala portuguese pouco. Entou, fala devegar e simpla, talvez eu vu intente, ok?” You can say: fala mais devagar…. You don’t need to say that you are American because your accent doesn’t lie… and maybe you will understand, No, stop this, you can get confused….. Just say, FALA MAIS DEVAGAR……SmileThe word Please, Por favor is not so urgent need to say in Portuguese like it is in English…. Of course, you need tos say pleasein several situation but it is perfect dispensavel in this case. Try not to cut the prepositions, also helps to improve your Portuguese. When you say : Mais uma cerveja por favor….just say GARCON, MAIS UMA or just say AMIGO, MAIS UMA AQUI and point out your empty beer….Something good to do is to learn Portuguese through Music. Get simple musics like TUM TUM TUM BATE CORACAO, OI TUM CORACAO PODE BATER…OI TUM BATE CORACAO.. QUE EU MORRO DE AMOR COM MUITO PRAZER…. (Elba Ramalho) Or Dorival Caymi…..AI, MAS QUE SAUDADE EU TENHO DA BAHIA…..AI, SE EU ESCUTASSE O QUE MAMAE DIZIA…..VEM, NAO VA DEIXAR A SUA MAE AFLITA,….AGENTE FAZ O QUE O CORACAO DITA….MAS ESSE MUNDO EH CHEIO DE MALDADE E ILUSAO…. The Bossa Nova music, they sing slowly and when you put the music in heart you start to improve the Portuguese. They repeat the words like this one: ROSA, MORENA, COMO VAI…MORENA ROSA…. LIke this one: COQUEIRO DE ITAPOA….COQUEIRO AREIA DE ITAPOA….AREIA SAUDADE DE ITAPOA….ME DEIXA, ME DEIXASmile

  • #157030

    Anonymous

    When im in an important situation, like getting instructions or directions, Im better off saying to them “Eu pedi perguntas, vc fala sim, nao ou talvez” with lots of hand gestures”Just say: Por favor….sabe onde fica esta rua?or Por favor, sabe onde fica a Rua Maria Silva.If someone stops you to ask information: Just speak in English, they will not insist I guarantee:-) But if you want to answer, you can say Nao sei naoor you can say Nao conheco nada por aqui.Pedi perguntas, is not a proper Portuguese, you are still thinking in English. The right way of speaking is EU PERGUNTO, VOCE RESPONDE SIM, NAO OU TALVEZ….. However in a situation like this, to ask for directions, the right thing to do is POR FAVOR SABE ONDE FICA ESTA RUA? It is very important to take classes in Portuguese in my opinion, the teacher knows your issues or get a very good CD that teaches Portuguese, but to take classes for me is better.Smile

  • #157036

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spaceman] [QUOTE=delco] I was only responding to comments made in regard to WW2. The Nazis were the cruellest invaders the world has ever known and executed their cruelty on a scale beyond anything anyone could previously imagine.[/QUOTE]

    Well you cite that as though its an established fact. And that is the manner in which Americans (especially) will enter argument regarding Germany circa 33-45.

    But what ‘examples’ of how the Nazis are set apart from the way the UK fought the war, or Stalin, or the Japanese, or the Americans?

    You see your argument relies on a presumption of fact. The fact is that the US had a War Pysop division and after germany was defeated the next greatest challenges were to 1. Denazify the german population and 2. Justify to all the mothers and wives back home why their children and husbands died? What did they die for? – Now thats a tall order buddy.

    [/QUOTE] The funniest thing is that Brazil is sliding into a National Socialist regime. Take a look at Petrobras. The Government sets the price of gas above five bucks a gallon, and Petrobras gets a monopoly status with the Government owning about half. Hitler would love Brazil. GreatBallsoFire2010-11-15 20:08:09

  • #157049

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=paulistalady]” When im in an important situation, like getting instructions or directions, Im better off saying to them “Eu pedi perguntas, vc fala sim, nao ou talvez” with lots of hand gestures”Just say: Por favor….sabe onde fica esta rua?or Por favor, sabe onde fica a Rua Maria Silva.If someone stops you to ask information: Just speak in English, they will not insist I guarantee:-) But if you want to answer, you can say Nao sei naoor you can say Nao conheco nada por aqui.Pedi perguntas, is not a proper Portuguese, you are still thinking in English. The right way of speaking is EU PERGUNTO, VOCE RESPONDE SIM, NAO OU TALVEZ….. However in a situation like this, to ask for directions, the right thing to do is POR FAVOR SABE ONDE FICA ESTA RUA? It is very important to take classes in Portuguese in my opinion, the teacher knows your issues or get a very good CD that teaches Portuguese, but to take classes for me is better.Smile[/QUOTE] Now this is another hurdle- the grammar It does no good to replace portuguese with english literally Like the expression “Eu estou com fome” which literally is “I am with hunger” English is merely “I am hungry”- wont make sense literally translated An earlier post had “I don’t care” as actually “I am not there” There are hundreds of expressions in portuguese like this and it’s pretty maddening. I wish i had a list of them in english

  • #157050

    Anonymous

    another example “Onde fica”- where stands?

  • #157055

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Al Morrison]another example “Onde fica”- where stands? [/QUOTE] the translation is where is it? in fact the verb “ficar” means “stay” but in this context the best translation would be: do you know where is it this street? where is located this street? do you know the directions of Rua Maria Paula…. and so on, it is not so complicated, it is a matter of study the language with classes or if you think you can do by yourself you need to have a method. The best is see the situation and repeat the words, they have CD DVD about this.Smile

  • #157065

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=paulistalady][QUOTE=Al Morrison]another example “Onde fica”- where stands? [/QUOTE] the translation is where is it? in fact the verb “ficar” means “stay” but in this context the best translation would be: do you know where is it this street? where is located this street? do you know the directions of Rua Maria Paula…. and so on, it is not so complicated, it is a matter of study the language with classes or if you think you can do by yourself you need to have a method. The best is see the situation and repeat the words, they have CD DVD about this.Smile[/QUOTE] First let me thank thee, fair lady for thine assistence Portuguese is both a facinating and yet frustrating language to learn because of it’s poetry “Com licensa”- with license. In english we merely say “excuse me” “Muito brigado”- much obliged. That phrase hasn’t been used in english since the 19th century Portuguese speakers have such an easier time learning english because it’s like childrens’ building blocks- just arrange the words to fit The equivilant would be like a Brazillian trying to learn Shakespere: I have yielded:
    Instruct my daughter how she shall persever,
    That time and place, with this deceit so lawful,
    May prove coherent. Every night he comes
    With musics of all sorts, and songs compos’d
    To her unworthiness: it nothing steads us
    To chide him from our eaves; for he persists,
    As if his life lay on ‘t.

  • #157076

    Anonymous

    [] First let me thank thee, fair lady for thine assistence Portuguese is both a facinating and yet frustrating language to learn because of it’s poetry “Com licensa”- with license. In english we merely say “excuse me” “Muito brigado”- much obliged. That phrase hasn’t been used in english since the 19th century Portuguese speakers have such an easier time learning english because it’s like childrens’ building blocks- just arrange the words to fit The equivilant would be like a Brazillian trying to learn Shakespere: I have yielded:
    Instruct my daughter how she shall persever,
    That time and place, with this deceit so lawful,
    May prove coherent. Every night he comes
    With musics of all sorts, and songs compos’d
    To her unworthiness: it nothing steads us
    To chide him from our eaves; for he persists,
    As if his life lay on ‘t.
    [/QUOTE] Al, it is not like that. I thought I spoke a good English when I first came to America, but it wasn’t. They spoke so many different things in a different way and I can tell you, it was difficult to make myself clear because I was thinking in Portuguese to translate mentally into English. This can work but proves inneficient in many situations. The Shakespeare is a kind of Old British Language, I have studied Shakespeare when I was in the College in Brazil, it remembers the Portuguese arcaico (Old). To understand above Poetry I need a dictionaryBig%20smileWhen you say Obrigado(a), it means Agradecido, I am gratefulfor your help, this is the meaning of Obrigado(a). If a woman say Obrigada it means AGradecida. Try not to “adapt” one language into another but accept the way that it is. Keep going you are doing well.Smile

  • #158386

    Paulo
    Member

    [quote]Hitler would love Brazil[/quote]
    Would think he would prefer China Ouchand find the comparison that Brazil is slipping into National Sociallism quite strong and IMO not right.
    cuhere2010-12-01 16:48:10

  • #158888

    paiceantave
    Member

    HUH?

  • #159662

    mvpa
    Member

    For me it was being kidnapped and held for ransom for five months in a shed outside of Rio with five non-English language-speaking Brazilians. After being released, I still correspond with a few of them … only now in great Portugues, thanks to their help, support and encouragement!

  • #200076
    [QUOTE=globetrotter]

    A basic foundation of lessons backed up with living with a Brazilian girlfriend who speaks no English Heart

    [/QUOTE]

    This is the BEST way ! My Brazilian G/F ended up to be my wife after a while HeartSmile

    [QUOTE=3casas]IMMERSION. [/QUOTE]

    That works too !

    [QUOTE=nikkij12185]Immersion INClUDING a girlfriend or boyfriend who you speak only Portuguese with (even if they know some English). [/QUOTE]

    The sum of the above two quotes !

    [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil]I guess i am lacking the Immersion. I use english too much everyday.[/QUOTE]

    This happens Unhappy

    [QUOTE=delco] Being young![/QUOTE]

    Age has nothing to do with it. you can learn a language at any age. Smile

    [QUOTE=Kelly_cristina]Acho que voce pode fazer associações, muitas palavras são cognatas…além disso, seria bom se tivesse alguém para praticar também, on line. Aliás, é o que o pessoal deveria fazer, em vez de escrever em ingles….bjs [/QUOTE]

    Facebook
    Yahoo

    [QUOTE=SolMilreu]

    Mix up with the locals and do not give up on your Portuguese course.

    [/QUOTE]

    Never Give Up ! Nunca desita !

    [QUOTE=Karita]Yes Globetrotter, this is a barrier that adults have; this is one of the reasons that kids speak much faster a second language! When I teach languages, and I have a beginner student, I don’t worry about correcting every single mistake, otherwise, the student loses confidence and stops speaking![/QUOTE]

    This is an issue. It happens to me once and a while !

    [QUOTE=Nathalia]I’m going with the cold-turkey total immersion method, which is quite entertaining! (Spending an hour on this website is the most English I’ve had in a week.) It’s hard and takes guts but – as an English teacher who has watched hundreds of students learning language – I think it’s the best way. Besides, I’m providing heaps of brasileiros with amusement at my mistakes and confusion Smile[/QUOTE]

    I tried that many times. Somehow it always switches back to English !

    [QUOTE=keith klopas]I have some background in Spanish – lived in Mexico for several months – and the languages are similar in some respects, but overall different. At the moment, I’ve been using Rosetta Stone for Brazilian Portuguese and have completed the first introductory unit. I feel that I have learned a lot of the basics, but a ton of the material is merely to get one aquainted with the language. Repetition is an understatement.

    I do feel hopeful. I have 5 months to continue independant study while in the US, and my roomate is doing the same. We practice often. I also bought a book called “501 Portuguese Verbs: fully conjugated in all the tenses” with the hopes of learning 5-10 verbs a day. It seems like a great book so far and explains all the terminology thoroughly. I’m confident that I will get a good basic understanding of the language by the time I get to Brazil. Wacko

    [/QUOTE]

    Spanish and Portuguese are 85% the same. I wonder how it worked out for you ? (after all this time)

    [QUOTE=DUNGA]keith – you might like to take a look at this website re the Spanish. http://tltc.la.utexas.edu/brazilpod/tafalado/index.php
    Best Luck!!!
    [/QUOTE]

    The Portuguese in Tá Falado is great, but the Spanish seems to be literal translations from the Portuguese.

    [QUOTE=KiteFlyer]Yes booze does help loosen the inhibitions but it can also prevent you from remembering what it was you said !!LOL[/QUOTE]

    That works wonders !

    [QUOTE=duexy]eu posso escrever em português mas eu não posso falar ou ouvir :(

    me ajuda! :'(
    eu falo com a minha namorada mas ela esta no brasil pra faculdade agora. eu moro no japão e não há muitas pessoas que fala português. eu escuto pra cançãos e eu leio livros. contudo, eu preciso alguém aqui para falar comigo!

    [/QUOTE]

    There are tons of Portuguese speakers in Japan !!!!!
  • #200726

    youthgone
    Member

    [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil]Hey,

    I see tons of posts and threads here but my question is simple, what really works to learn Portuguese?

    [/QUOTE]

    Studying 3 hours a day ! Watching TV or youtube videos ! A Brazilian wife ! Interacting on forums like this one, yahoo, and facebook…
  • #245573

    Ackee
    Participant

    http://www.ailolalatino.com/en/portuguese/brazil.php
    The best way to learn a language is go in the country make a course and speak with the people there. And its not only good to improve your language skills, it also opens you a whole different world. And it is just so nice to get in touch with an other culture and tradition. And that you really just can when you stay in a country for a few months.
    Laura

  • #246516

    Drewski
    Member

    [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil]   [/QUOTE]
    If you really want to learn Portuguese, there truly is only two things that will get you fluent: speaking and thinking it 24/7 and READING BOOKS in the language.
    My father told me that when he moved to the States he spoke no English. He told me that he learned the language by getting through day in and day out at work and then reading the newspaper.
    I learnt most of what I know by reading books. It is long, difficult, boring work but I promise results. Get a book in Portuguese, a good English to Brazilian Portuguese dictionary and a nice grammar book that covers the basics. Then go somewhere quite, by yourself and getting to reading. Write down every word you don’t know and look up their meanings. Then go out and try and use this new knowledge in the real world.
    That will work. I promise. The rest is just noise.

  • #14582

    jazzi
    Member
  • #250505

    DanL
    Member

    Judging by all the different responses, its quite obvious that everyone has their own methods. The best way is to find what works for you. There are supposedly 7 learning methods, each person is different and learns in different ways. The 7 methods are – linguistic (reading, writing etc) / logical (solving puzzles, mathematical situations etc.) / spatial (dreamers, watching movies, fantasizing) / musical (speaks for itself) / Interpersonal (people who love to chat, socially able) / bodily (learning things through physical methods, hands on) / Intrapersonal (loners, people who prefer to do things on their own)
    Personally I try to use all of these methods. The logical side of me likes to do crossword puzzles in portuguese and work out grammatical structures, the musical side in me listens to as much brazilian music as possible, the interpersonal side usually comes out after a few drinks, the intrapersonal encompasses many of the other methods, i prefer to study the language alone, the bodily part comes out when I play football with friends and a lot of my sports related vocabulary comes from there. Find out which are the best methods for you, or use all of them if you can!

  • #252463

    Chellefish
    Member

    Yes, this may work but be forwarned that you are walking into a situation that can be difficult to handle.

  • #253413

    Mila kunis
    Participant

    [QUOTE=usaalltheway] [QUOTE=Robertinbrazil] ï¬ø¬Ω [/QUOTE]
    If you really want to learn Portuguese, there truly is only two things that will get you fluent: speaking and thinking it 24/7 and READING BOOKS in the language.
    My father told me that when he moved to the States he spoke no English. He told me that he learned the language by getting through day in and day out at work and then reading the newspaper.
    I learnt most of what I know by reading books. It is long, difficult, boring work but I promise results. Get a book in Portuguese, a good English to Brazilian Portuguese dictionary and a nice grammar book that covers the basics. Then go somewhere quite, by yourself and getting to reading. Write down every word you don’t know and look up their meanings. Then go out and try and use this new knowledge in the real world.
    That will work. I promise. The rest is just noise. [/QUOTE]

    I agree that this kind of thing is good for improving your vocab and learning structure.
    But for me the hardest part is understanding people at fluent speed. I continue to watch TV and speak to people and hope it will just improve over time. Beyond that I don’t know what I can do. I can talk well when people speak slowly to me, but natives at native speed can sometimes be impossible to understand!

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