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  • #272596

    Deb&Ger
    Member

    I’m surprised no one on here is talking about the drought crisis in the sudeste, but I was wondering how its affecting you guys?

    I made a post on here about a year ago asking for tips on moving to Brazil and I was criticized heavily for it but I went ahead and started planning to move anyways because of my reasons. Everything horrible I read about Brazil didn’t make me double-think my trip since with Brazilian parents i’ve always been aware of how behind Brazil is, but then I’ve been hearing a lot about the water situation which would affect me directly and it’s really scaring me. Many people say many businesses will leave SP (which sounds to me like it would be catastrophic to the already crappy national economy), and I saw that they might even introduce a rationing system where every house goes without water for 5 days.
    I am moving to SP late august, and was wondering how has it been in Sampa? How are you guys in the sudeste, specifically São Paulo, being affected? What do you think will happen in the long run?
  • #272598

    celso
    Member

    You are now talking about a wild card. Nobody wants to think about what might happen. We just hope and pray for rain. If the rains come, no problem. No rain? Perhaps some riots, higher food prices and some people will take fewer showers.

  • #272603

    Anonymous

    We have property in different parts of Sao Paulo.
    Here’s our experience with the current water situation so far —
    1. Sao Paulo capital, the city itself.We have an apartment near Av Paulista. There has been no water rationing or ANY lack of water at any time, so far. Other parts of the city have suffered from periods of the day without water, but this particular area where our apartment is has been spared. Don’t know why. Maybe because it is considered a “rich” area, with upscale offices and homes?
    2. Sao Paulo literal, the coast. We have a beach apartment there. It had occasional water shortages over the New Years holiday, but I doubt that was related to the lack of water situation. Rather, it seems to be normal for that time of year when too many tourists hit the beach towns and the creaky infrastructure struggles to keep up.
    3. Sao Paulo interior, the countryside.We have a villa in the state itself, and so far have been spared any water rationing. Water has been on all day, every day, in this particular place. However, some other cities in the interior of SP are suffering a lot from lack of water. It seems to be hit and miss and depend somewhat on the local prefeitura,too.
    Also: For anyone looking for an apartment in Sao Paulo Capital, our place near Paulista is currently empty and available for rent at a good price.

  • #272605

    myrna
    Member

    Most building have a large Caixa de Agua. I have never noticed my water being cut off, but I’ve heard about neighbors with houses complaining.
    Speaking of caixas, I dont see how cutting someones water off does jack sh*t when they have a huge caixa they will just fill the day it comes back on…

  • #272607

    Anonymous

    my family (in a not so affluent area of the capital) has been noticing water cutoffs at night for months.

    a friend of mine who lives in Moema has said similar things, and the water company just released a map showing when they reduce supply to different parts of the city.
    Yes, they both have a caixa d’agua. For now, no problem. But if they do move to 5 day cutoffs, 5 days is a long time. My mother in law has 2 1000L tanks. For the big number of people who spend time at her house every week, between grandkids, inlaws, and her church group, that is not enough for five days, no way.
    Also, the water coming out of the tap has been notably weird and undrinkable for months now. It was like milk.
    the interior of SP seems to be a wildcard indeed. I was just reading about how Itì∫ is like the wild west with people stealing water and such. And it sounds like Rio and BH are headed down the same road as SP.
    I agree, nobody wants to talk about it, for years everyone has just said “oh it will rain eventually don’t worry about it” and now, one dry year and we’re all screwed. I personally am very glad we don’t live up there, because of all the things we have Brazil is actually pretty good with water, it is just not getting to where it is needed. Too bad we couldn’t take the eleventy bazillion bucks that got invested in the Cup and use it to fix broken infrastructure instead of build stadiums that nobody gives a crap about.

    3casas2015-01-30 04:51:39

  • #272609

    Marc Maserati
    Participant

    I noticed that the water rationing is still going on in my town but being I have an artesian well, we have had no problems on the farm. The city gets its water from the local, mildly polluted river treats it will lots of chemicals and sends it to the homes and offices of the 2 cities nearby. If the river water gets too low, the concentration of pollution increases and they need to add more chemicals to make it “safe” for drinking.

    Probably not related, I’ve noticed a lot of new ads for installation of wells!!!
    -Marc
  • #272613

    Finrudd
    Participant

    As Picolino mentioned, in the Avendia Paulista Area, I have not noticed any water shut off at all. Most buildings are advertising a reduction from SABESP (water company) if you reduce your water consumption as a building by a certain amount. However, with few apartments having individual metres, there seems to be little interest in water conservation yet.

    In the countryside 60km outside SP, we have a shallow well, and it has not run dry yet. This is probably because there are not many people living in the area, tapping the water-table, more than anything, but it has been and still is too dry. The rain just isn’t coming. I have 5.000 litre tanks, and ran out over New Year, when we burnt our pump. If Brazilians are using an average of 250 litres per person per day, then a family of four will easily get through 1.000 litres a day. Part of this is just lack of awareness on water usage – only shortages will drive the message home. Having said that, when I heard about rationing in towns outside SP, families were filling every available receptacle the day before the planned shut off, and then just throwing away what they hadnt used when the water came back on…
    Bottom line is that if SP starts to have 5 day shut-off of water, it’s going to be chaos. Businesses will close, jobs will be lost, and we can expect more riots (that are a weekly event in SP centro at the moment, about public transport). As someone who runs a business in SP that employs about 15 people, I would certainly be thinking about moving operations out of Brazil – we already have enough negative things to deal with in our sector, without having non-functioning toilets for the staff. It might just be the straw that breaks the camels back.
  • #272616

    kenalag
    Member

    Well,

    SP, zona leste, Vila Prudente… no water cut so far. We do not have a caixa de agua in the condo, but they now reuse rain water for cleaning.
    SP, litoral norte, Juquehy… quite low pressure during the high season, too low to switch on the chuveiro. After the 2 days of heavy rain (200 liter/sq.m.) before christmas, water was off on christmas eve.
    Cheers
    Willi
  • #272618

    bennum
    Member

    It depends on where you live in sampa.

    I live in a region with water from Guarapiranga and not Cantareira so the 5-2 or 4-3 that is discussed now will not have a big impact in my region.
    We do however have reduced water pressure from 13.30 to 05.30 every day.
    @levo: You do realize that almost 30% of the water never reaches its destination due to leaking pipe lines?
    Have you thought about all the businesses that uses a lot of water?
    It is not all about houses with big water tanks.
  • #272624

    ffm
    Member

    picolino- You baller, you! Clap

    Here in the interior (Americana, SP) there have been little “problems” but we are on a water alert. We are not allowed to wash our cars or be seen washing side walks, drive ways, etc. with a hose. First offense is a warning, second is a $300 BRL fine, and they are trying to double this number due to no compliance.
    There is a little town near us that I think God just hates. Every storm just seems to pass it by. It’s called Artur Nogueira. They are dry, dry, dry. In this city, there is EXTREME rationing and day time water cuts.
    I feel this situation is MUCH worse than the press let’s on and for good reason. I feel they are holding back as to not create wide scale panic, though I believe especially people in the capital should be panicking. The five day rationing plan is real and pretty much going to happen without a biblical flood inthe next few weeks.
    WTF would you want to come now Troy???? I wish you the best, I really do, but you are playing with fire at this point.
  • #272630

    Finrudd
    Participant

    [QUOTE=The Abbot]

    WTF would you want to come now Troy???? I wish you the best, I really do, but you are playing with fire at this point.

    [/QUOTE]

    …and there’s no water to put that fire out either! Big smile
  • #272648

    jeb2886
    Member

    Likely there won’t be any long term damage done to SP, it’s a city unto itself. The people, pace of life and ability to do business with others is just too great.

    I would say it’s like saying companies in NYC are going to leave because it’s too expensive, or too much traffic. It’s not happening. People go there for many reasons, many of which include their customers are there!
    A few businesses might pick up and leave, but others will quickly replace them, as the void will create opportunities for others.
    5 days of no water is pretty extreme though! Although, not having water for several days might cause people to really think about it. The whole “if it’s yellow, let it mellow” idea might become more common place, along with other ways of limiting water usage.
  • #272651

    Finrudd
    Participant

    On a practical level – 5 day water shortages will mean water goes to whoever has the money to buy it. Restaurants and bars will not be allowed to stay open I imagine – no water, no business. No washing up, no water for food prep and no flushing toilets – all create a health risk that I would think even Brazil will not allow.
    Similarly in the office – if you cannot provide basic sanitation for your employees, washing hands, flushing toilets etc then I think the Unions will not allow the workers to work. Given there are already workplace laws (as far as I remember) about ratios of male/female toilets per headcount/gender I am sure there will be issues if those toilets become warzones!

  • #272656

    jeb2886
    Member

    Oh there will be massive comedy to be had for sure! But businesses who can’t exist without massive amounts of water will have to shut down, while an office or restaurant could probably pay for water to be brought in. Maybe not all of them will figure this out and they’ll close down, but most likely they’ll have water for 2 days + 1-2 days storage, which means a 3-4 day weekend. But many will figure something out.

  • #272672

    cocochi
    Member

    I get the feeling that the magnitude of this situation is not being addressed. Many people I talk to say things like “Oh, we have a water box, so we’ll be OK.” Yeah, right. I think the government is waiting until after Carnival to reveal the scope of the problem…. One of my Brazilian friends advised me to leave Sao Paulo now. As if its that easy….I hope I can at least get 2 more months of salary before the worst and before I have to make a game-changing decision. Then what? My life is here.

    I live near Paulista and I have had no problems with water supply. After Carnival, I am expecting the worst.
  • #272674

    Serrano
    Participant

    [QUOTE=The Abbot]picolino- You baller, you! Clap[/QUOTE]
    And picolino was being quite modest, for he neglected to mention the estì¢ncia and vineyards in Argentina…. Wink
    I wish I could send you folks in SP some of the rain we’ve had here in SC the past several weeks. The serra particularly has been inundated with rainfall!
    @Troy, if arriving in August later this year, your bigger challenge is not going to be the water supply, but the avalanche of Spring holidays, all of which this year fall on a Monday. That means not just a three day weekend for everyone, but the Friday prior, even though many people (such as funcionarios pì∫blicos) will be ‘on the job’, mentally they will already be on holiday. Ditto for the Tuesday that follows the actual holidays (that all fall on Mondays). Hopefully, you won’t need to do much in regards to burro-cracia, but if so, be forewarned!

  • #272689

    ffm
    Member

    [QUOTE=dove]I get the feeling that the magnitude of this situation is not being addressed.
    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is more sinister than that. I believe it’s being hidden. But I agree with this post 100%.
  • #272695

    myrna
    Member

    Its not going to start raining again. The climate has changed (due to global warming as a whole and deforestation specifically f**king Brazil’s natural weather systems).
    Sao Paulo is out of water, Rio is going to be out in a year or two. Both cities will die a slow painful death until their population is at least half and most industry has left for greener pastures.
    Im already looking in how I can get out of here while the Brazilians are still telling themselves it will rain next year.

  • #272696

    jeb2886
    Member

    yes this will happen! No one will ever take action, they will just let themselves run out of water forever, until the city dies.

    But more likely, they will take action as needed to prevent this, like any other city in the world that has run out of water. While it will be sketchy for many years, it will remain stable.
  • #272697

    cocochi
    Member

    What makes me shake my head is people saying “oh, we have a water box, we will be ok.” Are people thinking that they are going to just fill their water box on the days without rationing or rotation? That’s not how it works. I guess I don’t blame people for thinking this way. The facts of what is in store for SP just haven’t been presented. It rained today, so people think it will all be ok….I’m all for positive thinking. For having faith. But give us the truth about what’s going to happen!!!!

  • #272702

    jeb2886
    Member

    This isn’t postivie thinking, this is just a lack of understanding. They’re told we need rain, rain comes and they think it’s going to be ok. They have a water box because it’s supposed to deal with water outages and low pressure, and it has in the past, that is what it’s for. They just don’t understand how much water they need.

    It will take them a couple of weeks of rationing to understand how much water they actually have. They will obviously have water in the box, but without proper rationing throughout the day, they’ll run out in 1-2 days. After a few times, they’ll start learning. Eventually word will spread on what it takes to live with that limited amount of water.
  • #272704

    Marc Maserati
    Participant

    [QUOTE=The Abbot]

    There is a little town near us that I think God just hates. Every storm just seems to pass it by. It’s called Artur Nogueira. They are dry, dry, dry. In this city, there is EXTREME rationing and day time water cuts.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, God hates that city no doubt as well as piracicaba which is now kown as “PiraSECaba” by the locals! We have had the occasional rainstorm and the local ponds are at capacity though the polluted Mogi river, the cities water source, is still very low.
    -Marc
  • #272706

    ffm
    Member

    The rational behind the “I have a water box I’ll be alright” is extremely flawed. If people let their water box run next to dry only to fill it up on the non rationing day, the same amount of water will be used! It’s just that as of now, the level of the water stays constant because it’s always getting topped off.

    On an aside, I was talking to a guy with a brother in Osasco. He said in the periferia where his brother resides there are already on a three day off one day on cycle. He said it’s hell and already causing suffering. Can any Osasco gringos confirm?
  • #272708

    jeb2886
    Member

    Of course this is going to happen. There wouldn’t be any savings if you did 1 day on, 1 day off, because the caixa would cover basically everyone during that down time.

    They have to reduce their water usage to make that box last the entire time. It’s going to be suffering until they learn how to make that water last, and it’s going to be something they aren’t used to. People around here are massive water wasters! From showers, to washing dishes, to these massive flushing toilets they have here!
  • #272711

    pmcalif
    Member

    Let me do some thinking about that…

    Caixa – yes it would help to home owners, for sure. But explain me how the admistrative buildings here in Sao Paulo will flush the toilets . Hundreds of thousands of people every day using the toilets…..
    Will they limit the work week for 2 days and 5 days of weekend ???
    What about the people who have no resources to buy the water, what about the fact that there is not enough Pipa trucks for the water distribution ?
    What about the possible social unrests, strikes, etc… ? What can we expect ???
    Let me tell you something, I really do not know what is coming and the magnitude of what is coming.
    But is there any other place in Brazil where could we find a decent job ???
  • #272712

    jeb2886
    Member

    You’re over thinking the situation, to some degree. People with caixa’s will have to adjust for sure. They simply won’t have enough water. The whole point is to CHANGE peoples attitude towards water. Otherwise they would run 1 day on, 1 day off. Or 2 hours a day (enough time to refill) and 22 hours off. The thing is, they need people to feel pain so they take action to avoid it.

    If people are simply buying water from a water truck, they’re not changing their habits at all.
    Large buildings will have to adjust water usage as well. They might have to install low flush toilets everywhere. They also often have very large caixa storage units, so they might not be as affected by this. Some will for sure. But again, they will have to change their habits. The first 2 or 3 times they do this, people will run out of water on day 1 and have to make do. By the 3rd time they do this, people with small caixa’s will know what to do. People without, will know what to do. Businesses will know what to do. It doesn’t mean it won’t be painful — having 5 days off clearly is painful, otherwise they would do it ALL the time.
  • #272713

    pmcalif
    Member

    I only hope that the situation is exagerated. In my opinion, what will happen in Sao Paulo, will be comparable with what happened with Detroit.

    And this was quite positive thinking…
  • #272714

    GGTrek
    Participant

    You guys are forgetting that 36% (!!!) of the water in São Paulo public network is leaked out before it reaches the consumers, so actually switching off water for 5 days will save a lot of water that is leaking to the ground. So the saving is much bigger than thought. I own my house and I am thinking about installing a rainwater reuse system (another R$ 2k for sure for installation). A rain like this morning is a minimum of 4k L in the main roof: all wasted!

    I would like this thread to be a bit more useful, anyone has any suggestion on where to buy a rainwater reuse system around São Paulo? Pros and cons? Is it possible to have a filtering system that allows to take a shower or wash dishes or clothes?
  • #272715

    Marc Maserati
    Participant

    And it’s raining at my house! Problem solved!

    -Marc
  • #272716

    jeb2886
    Member

    You can build your own little systems pretty easily, and cheapily. Basically put the water barrel at the bottom of a gutter on your house and let it collect up. Put a tap at the bottom by simply putting a whole in there, and one at the top to allow for overflow.

    But you aren’t going to get that much water, unless it’s the rainy season, in which case you won’t need that much water. Rain barrels of around 300L are pretty common it seems. You could put a couple of them on your house, for each downspout.
    You can’t easily put that water into your house though! That would require some serious construction, as you need to divert the water all over the place, and you need to ensure it’s not getting back into your good water tanks!
  • #272717

    Anonymous

    My mother in law has one of these, GG. Roof drains right into a cisterna and it has its own set of faucets and piping alongside the street water ones (extra faucet in the kitchen, in the service area, and I think it goes directly into the toilet), but it is just a basic detritus filter, so it is for graywater use.

  • #272722

    Serrano
    Participant

    [QUOTE=GGTrek] I own my house and I am thinking about installing a rainwater reuse system (another R$ 2k for sure for installation). A rain like this morning is a minimum of 4k L in the main roof: all wasted!

    I would like this thread to be a bit more useful, anyone has any suggestion on where to buy a rainwater reuse system around São Paulo? Pros and cons? Is it possible to have a filtering system that allows to take a shower or wash dishes or clothes?

    [/QUOTE]
    For those in an actual house and not an apartment, you should run, not walk to the closest home improvement store and buy a cistern! When I lived in Floripa I installed one in my backyard, and all the downspouts empty in to it. I used the water for the garden or washing down the patio. With tijolo and reboco construction (the norm in Brasil), it might be difficult to retro-fit the supply lines for toilets and showers, but considering how bleak the situation is becoming there in SP, might be worth it.
    Frankly, I don’t think a filter would be worth installing just for washing one’s body and clothes. Any dirt on the roof will settle as sediment at the bottom of the cistern. Obviously, as opposed to a caixa de agua, which normally uses gravity to feed the lines, you’d need to set up a pump system to get the water out of the cistern up to your water box.
    This is a popular company in the south that sells cisternas, etc. Fortlev
    Finrudd mentioned once a company called Aqualimp, which is well known in SP region.
    A simple diagram of options below….

    EDIT: Link to photo above, a larger version: http://loja.ecoracional.com.br/media/images/Formas_de_instalacao.jpg
    Gringo.Serrano2015-02-02 16:14:57

  • #272788

    Isos
    Participant

    Re Cistern experience:
    Hello Forum, I am currently living in St. Croix US Virgin Islands. I have been here for 2 1/2 years after an unsuccessful attempt at permanently living in Brasil. On this island most homes and businesses use Cisterns as their main source of water. The concept of water conservation and using a cistern was a little foreign to me at first but over time it is almost second nature. If it is a viable option for your specific situation, it is worth looking into. St. Croix averages 1099mm of rain a year – the same website showed Sao Paulo to get 1454mm (for what it is worth).
    I have a cistern system that accommodates 20,000 gallons (8k and 12k tanks respectively). The first year I did not have to buy water (via water trucks), the rain water collected in the cistern was sufficient. The second year (which seemed to have more rain) I learned about the need to check my gutters periodically to keep them clear of debris (I ran out of water and eventually discovered that it was due to the gutter being full of tamarind leaves and nuts). The water is used for everything except drinking (I do not have a filter system, I do add a little bit of bleach to it periodically) – many on the island do drink their cistern water. Filter systems can be incorporated you just need to decide if it is cost effective for you.
    For a homemade type system many examples can be found on youtube.

  • #272793

    Winlearn
    Member

    [QUOTE=Isos]I am currently living in St. Croix US Virgin Islands. I have been here for 2 1/2 years after an unsuccessful attempt at permanently living in Brasil.[/QUOTE]

    St. Croix is a wonderful little island to call home-good for you. What made you leave Brazil? How long did you live in Brazil? Are you American?
  • #272800

    ffm
    Member

    This video is making the rounds on the interwebs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoZWJYkONac

    Basically, the guy is saying that the “seca” is cooked by the media in cahoots with the government to give the impression we are running out of water to raise energy prices (which they ARE doing) and water prices and create general panic among the populous. I love a good conspiracy.
    The number once critique of the video that I have seen is that the guy in the video is not even in the Canteriera system but in another represa in Mariporã and has little to nothing to do with SP water supplies.
    *Warning: video in Portuguese.
  • #272808

    Serrano
    Participant

    I neglected to mention in my previous post, for those who can’t, or don’t want to dig up their yard to install a cistern, this is a very cool design by the company Fortlev. Company link in previous post.

  • #272809

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    That video made me laugh, links next to it almost all include the Illuminati

  • #272822

    ffm
    Member

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy]That video made me laugh, links next to it almost all include the Illuminati[/QUOTE]

    KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK! I didn’t notice that!!!!!!
  • #272845

    Isos
    Participant

    [QUOTE=38 Special][QUOTE=Isos]I am currently living in St. Croix US Virgin Islands. I have been here for 2 1/2 years after an unsuccessful attempt at permanently living in Brasil.[/QUOTE]

    St. Croix is a wonderful little island to call home-good for you. What made you leave Brazil? How long did you live in Brazil? Are you American?

    [/QUOTE]
    Hello 38 Special,
    I left Brasil because my savings was depleting faster than I had originally planned. I was nervous that I would run out of money before I learned the language and started making positive income. So six months in I called my former employer to ask if there was anything available. I was offered a post in St.Croix. It took two more months before the paperwork was complete and I was hired back. The funny thing is during months 7 and 8 I started building a progressively bigger private English teaching pool and ran a soccer clinic for a small town’s youth. So I could either take the job offer in St. Croix (If I didn’t I might likely have burned my bridges for the future), or I could stay in Brasil and see if things worked out. I chose the solid job option. Yes I am American. I still return to Brasil for a month each year. Someday I will likely try it again…. after all I have a home there and all my physical belongings are still there.

  • #272849

    ffm
    Member

    Isos-

  • #272854

    Marc Maserati
    Participant

    [QUOTE=The Abbot]Isos-

    [/QUOTE]

    Haha, that’s great!
    -Marc
  • #273312

    checkmate886
    Member

    Agree with you, 3casas, about all you say, also regarding the precious money invested in the World Cup…. and now some of those stadiums are already falling apart….You really know the situation in details based on family and friends experience and your own, too. I am wondering how the Olympics will be!

  • #273419

    ffm
    Member

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/brazil/11428718/Taps-run-dry-in-Brazils-biggest-city-as-drought-bites.html

    Could the fact that the international press has its eye on the situation pretty much kill the conspiracy theorists claims? I have a hard time believing that the international press would cooperative with a corrupt third world government in tricking its people to rob them further.
  • #273420

    Finrudd
    Participant

    Our building in central SP (downtown) is now on daily water rationing. Water is on for 4 hours a day only now, and once the water has run out, that’s it until it fills again the next day.

  • #273422

    Anonymous

    a high point of my career as a translator: yesterday did an article about peeing in the shower.

    [TUBE]http://youtu.be/Q_3oOUfpdVY[/TUBE]
  • #273426

    jeb2886
    Member

    Just wondering if anyone has seen any product advertising in SP for low flow shower heads? or replacement toilets or aerated faucets?

  • #273474

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=finrudd]Our building in central SP (downtown) is now on daily water rationing. Water is on for 4 hours a day only now, and once the water has run out, that’s it until it fills again the next day.[/QUOTE]

    That’s just such bullsh*t. Households make up for the usage of 6% of SABESP water. 25 to 30% is lost by SABESP in their leaky pipes and the rest is used by agriculture and industry.
    They should increase water prices for industry and agriculture so they seek alternatives (stockpiling rainwater for example).
    It’s laugable when the SP govt creates fines for squandering water (hosing down the street or washing your water) when at least four times what all households together use is lost due to leaky SABESP pipes.
  • #273475

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=jkennedy]Just wondering if anyone has seen any product advertising in SP for low flow shower heads? or replacement toilets or aerated faucets?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, that will solve the problem….LOL
  • #273476

    myrna
    Member

    QUOTE=sven][QUOTE=jkennedy]Just wondering if anyone has seen any product advertising in SP for low flow shower heads? or replacement toilets or aerated faucets?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, that will solve the problem….LOL

    [/QUOTE]
    It will solve the problem of your caixa running out quickly. But you’ll look like this:

    Levo2015-02-25 11:23:35

  • #273477

    jeb2886
    Member

    Agriculture rarely pulls from municipal sources, they consume a huge amount of the water, but NOT from municipal drinking resovoirs. When they say agriculture consumes X%, they’re consuming that but they’re getting it from ground sources or other sources on their properties. Depending on the industry, something similar takes place.

    25% loss due to leaky pipes is not that far off from the norm. Pipes leak, they’re expensive to get at, and often times almost impossible to reach, so they are left to leak. It’s part of the system in almost every city.
    The same numbers are used in California, but the reservoirs where the cities are getting their water from are hundreds of km away from where the city is collecting it’s water from. Usually mountain areas, and not tapping ground water aquifers and where they are, it’s not the same aquifers that the farms are using.
  • #273479

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=jkennedy]Agriculture rarely pulls from municipal sources, they consume a huge amount of the water, but NOT from municipal drinking resovoirs. When they say agriculture consumes X%, they’re consuming that but they’re getting it from ground sources or other sources on their properties. Depending on the industry, something similar takes place.

    [/QUOTE]
    It really doesn’t matter if they buy their water from SABESP or use water of afluentes of the water system that provide water to SABESP. It’s THEIR water by law.
    “Em Piedade, a Sabesp e a Defesa Civil lacraram, esta semana, bombas de irrigaìßão de agricultores que usam ì°gua do rio Pirapora e afluentes. A medida foi tomada, conforme a Prefeitura de Piedade, para “que a populaìßão não sofresse com a falta de ì°gua jì° nesta sexta-feira.” O municì≠pio, ao lado de Ibiì∫na, ì© um dos principais produtores de hortifrì∫tis do Estado. Os lacres devem ser retirados hoje, informa a Prefeitura.”
    [QUOTE=jkennedy]
    25% loss due to leaky pipes is not that far off from the norm. Pipes leak, they’re expensive to get at, and often times almost impossible to reach, so they are left to leak. It’s part of the system in almost every city. [/QUOTE]
    It’s 11 where I come from. 25% is a lot.
    [QUOTE=jkennedy]
    The same numbers are used in California, but the reservoirs where the cities are getting their water from are hundreds of km away from where the city is collecting it’s water from. Usually mountain areas, and not tapping ground water aquifers and where they are, it’s not the same aquifers that the farms are using.

    [/QUOTE]

    Numbers I’ve seen it’s 16%
  • #273643

    Tony
    Participant

    Depends on the region. True there are a lot of culprits for this disaster.
    I for one blame the catastrophic lack of zoning and urban planning. They drop high rise buildings everywhere without much consideration to environmental impact. Others blame the agri business.
    And we all agree Brazilians are poor stewards of their resources.
    In the Metro São Paulo , any region supplied by the Cantareira Water Reserve Works is at risk. Which affects most of São Paulo, Campinas, and Sorocaba.
    I am fortunate enough to live in the ABC where the water supply comes from Billings and Pedroso. We never gas rationing here since I made here. Even then I do not count my blessings.
    I had a boss , when as a trainee for Snap On Tools, good ole Joe Sakowski, , that thought me never to spell the word trouble. He forced to replace the T word by ” an unsolved opportunity “. I guess , in perspective he forced me to reason to see opportunity where others see trouble.
    There are not many buildings we can count with cisterns. And people should get religion on Co Generatiom. Europe, Africa, Asia and America are.
    You see, people here have this herd mentality , and a patronizing heavy handed government don’t help matters much.
    People don’t embrace change. There is no culture of innovation and risk here.

  • #28173

    JMWC
    Member

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