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  • #261638

    Deusa
    Member

    Is it true that you cant extend your visa after 90 days if youre from EU anymore? why ?

  • #261639

    lynchem
    Member

    just pay 8 reais per day and overstay if you must. It has to be worth it if you’re worried about extending your stay.

  • #261640

    Anonymous

    so you have to leave or pay after the first 90days??

  • #261641

    Crybeaddy
    Member

    Yes, for Europeans (from Schengen area) the maximum stay is 90 days per 180, no extension allowed.

  • #261647

    Deusa
    Member

    thank you any clue why they changed ?

  • #261648

    Ron
    Participant

    [QUOTE=maarten]Yes, for Europeans (from Schengen area) the maximum stay is 90 days per 180, no extension allowed.
    [/QUOTE]

    This is a ‘tit for tat’ response to Schengen countries imposing the same restriction on Brazilians. It has almost totally destroyed the cruising yacht tourism industry here in Brazil and in consequence all the businesses that supported this industry.
    Whereas Brazilians bring nothing to the European countries concerned, the combined economic effect of restricting ‘money spending’ visitors to Brazil can only be detrimental to Brazil’s economy.
    Another example of ‘cutting off your nose to spite your face’ by the incompetent people who run Brazil.
  • #261659

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Soze] thank you any clue why they changed ?[/QUOTE]
    Entry into force of a treaty between Schengen countries and Brazil in October 2012.

  • #261662

    Anonymous

    Im from Ireland and its not part of Shengen, does that mean I can still do 90+90???
    It would ruin my plans of doing the carnival and world cup in one trip to brazil…

  • #261664

    Ron
    Participant

    [QUOTE=tyronemc]Im from Ireland and its not part of Shengen, does that mean I can still do 90+90???
    It would ruin my plans of doing the carnival and world cup in one trip to brazil…
    [/QUOTE]

    Check out this table- download.
    You will note that only countries with a visa classification 8 marked with an * (asterisk) are affected.
    Ireland is not included.
    But, be warned – this is Brazil and often the authorities do not know their own rules.
    My son, an Australian, was refused an extension and they would not give him a reason. He said that the officers were supercilious and rude. I know of other non Shengen country residents who have been treated similarly.
    No problem for you – overstay and pay the fine. Unfortunately for those visitors who sailed here on their boats the authorities threaten confiscation or huge fines.
  • #261665

    Anonymous

    Thats great news for me! Thanks for the info sir

  • #263846

    jacque
    Member

    Hi I am UK passport holder who has a house in Floripa….. before I bought the house 5 years ago I checked with the Brasilian embassy in France (where I live 7 months of the year) and I was assured that I could renew my tourist visa as long as I didn’t exceed 180 days in any calendar year…. up until yesterday no problem….. my renewal was refused on the grounds that I was in Brasil a year ago…. effectively a rolling 12 months rather than a calendar year…. I asked if the law had changed and the agent said no… in which case why have you renewed it for the last five years but not now…. “talk to the computer” was the response….. I am seeing a lawyer on Monday however it has been suggested that the Brasilian government is refusing renewals for British citizens in retaliation for the arrest at Heathrow in transit of David Miranda and the recent court decision that said the arrest was lawful…. tourist visas are renewed under Article 34 de lei 6.81580….. I have read the law it and it has nothing to say one way or the other as to how the 180 days would be calculated as far as I could see…. will keep you posted as to what the lawyer says…. I’m a fluent Portuguese speaker so this is not a misunderstanding….

  • #263868

    Luca
    Member

    In my personal experience going back to 1998, they count 90 or 180 days on a rolling 12 months basis. That is also what makes the most sense. Otherwise, you could stay from July 1st to June 30th as a tourist.

    You can also arrive at this conclusion by inference: in the Tabela de Vistos, “8*” means “mì°ximo de 90 dias de estada a cada 180 dias.” By the same logic, “8” would be “mì°ximo de 180 dias de estada a cada 365 dias.”
  • #263869

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=jackerie].. tourist visas are renewed under Article 34 de lei 6.81580…
    [/QUOTE]

    Decreto nº 86.715/81

    SEÂİÃ∆íO I

    Da Prorrogaìßão da Estada do Turista

    Art . 65 – A prorrogaìßão do prazo de estada do turista não excederì° a noventa dias, podendo ser cancelada a critì©rio do Departamento de Polì≠cia Federal.

    Â¬ß 1¬∫ – A prorrogaìßão poderì° ser concedida pelo Departamento de Polì≠cia Federal, quando solicitada antes de expirado o prazo inicialmente autorizado, mediante prova de:

    I – pagamento da taxa respectiva;

    II – posse de numerì°rio para se manter no Paì≠s.

    Â¬ß 2¬∫ – A prorrogaìßão serì° anotada no documento de viagem ou, se admitida a carteira de identidade, no cartão de entrada e saì≠da.

    tbird2014-02-23 09:33:32

  • #263870

    Eric B
    Member

    Hi
    As far as I understand the new law for some Shengen residents, the rule is 90 days in, 180 days out, 90 days in on a 365 days rolling basis. Any other scenario is risky.
    Cheers

  • #263871

    Eric B
    Member

    Hi
    Concerning overstays. Should you overstay the legal limits you will be liable for tax on your world wide income.
    .

  • #263872

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Claude] Hi
    Concerning overstays. Should you overstay the legal limits you will be liable for tax on your world wide income.
    .
    [/QUOTE]
    How much beer???

  • #263873

    agri2001
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Claude]Hi
    Concerning overstays. Should you overstay the legal limits you will be liable for tax on your world wide income.
    .
    [/QUOTE]
    Say what?

  • #263875

    Eric B
    Member

    Hi
    I am not an expert like Sven. But my understanding if you remain in Brasil more than 180 days during a calendar year, you are liable to be taxed on your worldwide income. The same rule applies in most countries in the world. If Brasil has a reciprocal tax agreement with your country of residence, great, if not, it could be a problem.
    Check it out
    Cheers

  • #263883

    jacque
    Member

    Hi I have 5 prorogaìßì≥es stamped in my passport, the last one being from 13-02-13 for 90 days and the law sited is art 34 da lei 6.81580…. I was refused this year 21-02-14 on the basis that I was in the country a year ago…. not to be denied….. before I bought a house in Brasil I checked with the Brasilian embassy in Paris that the calculation was 180 days in any calendar year…( more or less standard world wide where it coincides with the tax year).. this was confirmed by the Federal Police at the main office in Florianì≥polis in 2010… in 2011 the responsibility for extensions moved to the airport at Hercilio Luz…. I have two extensions since this occurred … the issue appears to hinge on the 180 days…. calendar year or rolling 12 months…. at the time of the refusal I asked whether the law had changed…. answer “Não”….. has the interpretation changed, possibly…. I am seeing a lawyer tomorrow….. will update the forum on the result…. thanks for pointing out 81 act which I will read…

  • #263885

    jacque
    Member

    I don’t think so…. you would be requesting a prorogaìßão on or before Jan 4 to an existing extension, so you would have to leave the country and return….. the converse of the 180 day rule is that somewhere in the world you are domiciled for tax purposes and residency…. that generally entails spending more than 180 days in any calendar year in that country…. in my case I am a tax payer and resident in France…. I have to spend a minimum of 180 days in France every calendar year in order to maintain my residency and enjoy the privilege of paying French taxes….. I am here in Brasil as a visitor and logically as the tax year is coincident with the calendar year in Brasil, if I were to spend more than 180 days here in any calendar year I should be liable for Brasilian income tax and this might be considered to be my country of residence for legal purposes… thus to retain visitor|ourist status I cannot be in the country for more than 180 days in any calendar year….. which up until last Friday was the interpretation on every occasion that I have requested an extension to my Brasilian tourist visa in the last 8 years….

  • #263888

    miguel
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Claude]
    But my understanding if you remain in Brasil more than 180 days during a calendar year, you are liable to be taxed on your worldwide income. The same rule applies in most countries in the world. If Brasil has a reciprocal tax agreement with your country of residence, great, if not, it could be a problem.
    Check it out
    Cheers [/QUOTE]
    It’s actually 184 days and they don’t need to fall within a single calendar year.

    Pessoas consideradas residentes no Brasil para fins tributì°rios

    http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/pessoafisica/irpf/2013/declaracao/obrigatoriedade.htm

    Considera-se residente no Brasil para fins tributì°rios a pessoa fì≠sica:

    – que resida no Brasil em carì°ter permanente;
    – que se ausente para prestar serviìßos como assalariada a autarquias ou repartiìßìµes do Governo Brasileiro situadas no exterior;
    – que ingresse no Brasil com visto permanente, na data da chegada;
    – que ingresse no Brasil com visto temporì°rio:

    a) para trabalhar com vì≠nculo empregatì≠cio, na data da chegada;
    b) na data em que complete 184 dias, consecutivos ou não, de permanì™ncia no Brasil, dentro de um perì≠odo de atì© doze meses;

    < =”aviso”>

    AVISO
    • Para fins do disposto no item “b”, caso, dentro de um perì≠odo de doze meses, a pessoa fì≠sica não complete 184 dias, consecutivos ou não, de permanì™ncia no Brasil, novo perì≠odo de atì© doze meses serì° contado a partir da data do ingresso seguinte ì†quele em que se iniciou a contagem anterior.

    c) na data da obtenìßão de visto permanente ou de vì≠nculo empregatì≠cio, se ocorrida antes de completar 184 dias, consecutivos ou não, de permanì™ncia no Brasil, dentro de um perì≠odo de atì© doze meses;

    miguel2014-02-24 00:31:27

  • #263889

    jacque
    Member

    Hi thanks for the info….. there is no double taxation treaty between Brasil and the UK currently, which might complicate the situation for anyone contemplating retirement in Brasil, if your revenue source is in the UK and includes an annuity….. it was not clear to me if the rolling 184 days applied only if you were employed in Brasil…… if one was and entered on a tourist visa you would presumably be breaking another law and would be subject to sanctions as a a result….. as to the renewal of a tourist visa, that would entitle you to a maximum of 180 days consecutive, whether in one year or crossing over a calendar year.. and therefore does not fulfill the 184 days stipulation… if you overstayed you would be in the country illegally….. a tourist visa by its very nature implies a non-permanent character to your stay….

  • #263894

    miguel
    Participant

    [QUOTE=jackerie]Hi thanks for the info….. there is no double taxation treaty between Brasil and the UK currently, which might complicate the situation for anyone contemplating retirement in Brasil, if your revenue source is in the UK and includes an annuity
    [/QUOTE]
    No bilateral tax treaty, but as Claude hinted at, there may be reciprocal tax treatment. And in fact there is:

    COMPENSAÂİÃ∆íO – ALEMANHA, ESTADOS UNIDOS E REINO UNIDO

    128 – ÂÄ∞ compensì°vel no Brasil o imposto pago sobre rendimentos recebidos na Alemanha, nos Estados Unidos da Amì©rica e no Reino Unido?

    Sim. A reciprocidade de tratamento permite a compensaìßão no Brasil do imposto pago, observado o limite de compensaìßão.

    Atenìßão:O valor pago nos Estados Unidos da Amì©rica ì© compensì°vel apenas quando se tratar de imposto federal.

    (Ato Declaratì≥rio SRF n¬∫ 28, de 26 de abril de 2000; Ato Declaratì≥rio SRF n¬∫ 48, de 27 de junho de 2000, Ato Declaratì≥rio Interpretativo n¬∫ 16, de 22 de dezembro de 2005)

    This is tantamount to a foreign tax credit, if the annuity is taxable in the UK. If the UK effective tax rate on that income is higher than here, then no incremental taxes are due; if lower, you will end up paying Brazil the difference, as a tax resident.

  • #263931

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    “- que ingresse no Brasil com visto temporì°rio:
    a) para trabalhar com vì≠nculo empregatì≠cio, na data da chegada;
    b) na data em que complete 184 dias, consecutivos ou não, de permanì™ncia no Brasil, dentro de um perì≠odo de atì© doze meses;”
    ” Art. 4¬∫ Ao estrangeiro que pretenda entrar no territì≥rio nacional poderì° ser concedido visto:
    I – de trì¢nsito;
    II – de turista;
    III – temporì°rio;
    IV – permanente;
    V – de cortesia;
    VI – oficial; e
    VII – diplomì°tico.”
    So let me get this straight. Although the estatuto de estrangeiro makes a specific distinction between TOURIST and TEMPORARY visas, in your really very humble opinion, they are actually the same, so anyone that overstays his tourist visa (and is thus irregular in the country) as long as he’s here more than 184 days is liable for tax.
    Again how much beer?

  • #263932

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    Just a wag, but does that also mean that, if you overstay your tourist visa for four years that you can apply for naturalization?

  • #263943

    miguel
    Participant

    Trolling again?
    He’s a tax resident at 184 days.
    Equating residency for tax purposes, and residency for immigration purposes is just not a bright idea.

  • #263944

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=miguel]Trolling again?
    He’s a tax resident at 184 days.
    Equating residency for tax purposes, and residency for immigration purposes is just not a bright idea.
    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, I must be trolling. Let me quote from a troll named Miguel:
    [QUOTE=miguel]Considera-se residente no Brasil para fins tributì°rios a pessoa fì≠sica:

    – que resida no Brasil em carì°ter permanente;
    – que se ausente para prestar serviìßos como assalariada a autarquias ou repartiìßìµes do Governo Brasileiro situadas no exterior;
    – que ingresse no Brasil com visto permanente, na data da chegada;
    – que ingresse no Brasil com visto temporì°rio:

    a) para trabalhar com vì≠nculo empregatì≠cio, na data da chegada;
    b) na data em que complete 184 dias, consecutivos ou não, de permanì™ncia no Brasil, dentro de um perì≠odo de atì© doze meses;

    < =”aviso”>

    AVISO
    • Para fins do disposto no item “b”, caso, dentro de um perì≠odo de doze meses, a pessoa fì≠sica não complete 184 dias, consecutivos ou não, de permanì™ncia no Brasil, novo perì≠odo de atì© doze meses serì° contado a partir da data do ingresso seguinte ì†quele em que se iniciou a contagem anterior.

    [/QUOTE]

    And then from the estatuto de estrangeiro:
    ” Art. 4¬∫ Ao estrangeiro que pretenda entrar no territì≥rio nacional poderì° ser concedido visto:
    I – de trì¢nsito;
    II – de turista;
    III – temporì°rio;
    IV – permanente;
    V – de cortesia;
    VI – oficial; e
    VII – diplomì°tico.”
    Which means you are considered a tax resident, if you entered Brazil on a VISTO TEMPORÃRIO (AKA VITEM) and have been in the country for more than 184 days. VITEM is something else than ViTUR.
    Yes, I guess it must be good to be proud not to be a lawyer.
    Obviously it means you don’t know sh*t about interpreting it.
    But go ahead, pay taxes as a turist, as the idiot you seem to be.
  • #263945

    Wellington
    Member

    I agree with Sven. The tax residency status and ensuing liability to pay tax is with regard to VITEM and VIPER visa holders. VITUR visas are outside the scope of the tax gathering system and you can’t force or oblige tourists who have overstayed their 180 residency to pay tax on their worldwide gains during that period. They may be removed or deported if they continue to remain without a valid visa and do not leave of their own free will, but they won’t be held and prevented from leaving until they have filed a tax return at the RF; the notion of which would be absurd!

  • #263946

    Luca
    Member

    I entered Brazil as a tourist and eventually filled for and was granted a permanent visa based on marriage. So what date do I use to count days of residency for tax purposes?

    A. Date of entry
    B. Date visa protocol was issued
    C. Date visa was published
    D. Date I got registered as a permanent resident in SINCRE
    E. Some other date
    Confused

    tbird2014-02-25 11:48:36

  • #263947

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=tbird]I entered Brazil as a tourist and eventually filled for and was granted a permanent visa based on marriage. As far as I am concerned, I believe that I need to count to 184 days from my date of entry for tax purposes.[/QUOTE]

    That would be from the day you apply for the visa, as that’s also the date from which you are allowed to work.
  • #263949

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven][QUOTE=tbird]I entered Brazil as a tourist and eventually filled for and was granted a permanent visa based on marriage. As far as I am concerned, I believe that I need to count to 184 days from my date of entry for tax purposes.[/QUOTE]

    That would be from the day you apply for the visa, as that’s also the date from which you are allowed to work.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks.
    I am not 100% convinced though. I suspect that Receita Federal considers the tourist visa a temporary visa in which case I need to start counting from my date of entry. I will go to Receita Federal this week and ask! One advantage of living in a smaller city is that you can do many of these things on a walk-in basis without much stress. This is important to me as I will be filing my first tax return as a permanent resident, which means I need to know the exact date that I must use to inform the beginning balance of my foreign bank accounts.

    tbird2014-02-25 11:59:15

  • #263953

    miguel
    Participant

    And let me quote from a troll named Sven:
    [QUOTE=sven][QUOTE=miguel]
    1999 Resolution – visto temporariovs. visto permanente vs. permanencia definitiva
    2008 Resolution- visto permanentevs autorizaìßao de permanenciavs permanencia por prazo indeterminado
    2014 Resolution – permanì™ncia temporì°riavs permanencia definitivavs. visto temporario vs. visto permanente


    [/QUOTE]

    They actually all mean the same, it’s the legislature that has problem using the same words for the same thing. You’ll find it all over Brazilian law.

    [/QUOTE]
    For someone who cannot fathom the difference between a visto temporario and visto permanente, and claims they are the same thing (they’re not), that is a big step to make now introducing a visto turista into the equation and now stating that, after all, they are all different.
    And for someone who cautions us laymen about the inability of Brazilian lawmakers and executive agencies to use proper terms, his relying on those very terms to give out legal advice here on this forum seems at best contradictory, and at worst, very disingenuous.

  • #263954

    miguel
    Participant

    [QUOTE=tbird][QUOTE=sven][QUOTE=tbird]I entered Brazil as a tourist and eventually filled for and was granted a permanent visa based on marriage. As far as I am concerned, I believe that I need to count to 184 days from my date of entry for tax purposes.[/QUOTE]

    That would be from the day you apply for the visa, as that’s also the date from which you are allowed to work.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks.
    I am not 100% convinced though. I suspect that Receita Federal considers the tourist visa a temporary visa in which case I need to start counting from my date of entry. I will go to Receita Federal this week and ask! One advantage of living in a smaller city is that you can do many of these things on a walk-in basis without much stress. This is important to me as I will be filing my first tax return as a permanent resident, which means I need to know the exact date that I must use to inform the beginning balance of my foreign bank accounts.

    [/QUOTE]
    You’re right not to be convinced. The poster seems to have disregarded the very facts that you have provided. That in itself is disconcerting from someone who claims to work in the legal profession. Unless I am missing something you did not mention that you entered Brazil:
    a) para trabalhar com vì≠nculo empregatì≠cio.
    And (see my previous post) you are absolutely right to question that the Receita Federal would differentiate, for tax residency purposes, whether a person entered on a tourist or temporary visa.
    miguel2014-02-25 16:33:57

  • #263955

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    As I said, go ahead and pay taxes while on a tourist visa, and go ahead and pay ITCMD for your inheritance from abroad. Fazenda will be happy.LOL

  • #263956

    miguel
    Participant

    And go ahead and declare donations or inheritances received from abroad or domestically, and yet not pay state taxes on it – as poster Sven has advocated, asserting that state tax agencies would never find out (in explaining his logic he stated that he was unable to locate the relevant clause which authorized such information-sharing in documents he pulled off the internet).
    Of course following such advice basically guarantees the Gringoes reader with a major tax dispute with his state tax agency.
    An excerpt from an article in VALOR just yesterdaywhich cites tax professionals and illustrates the dangers in following this advice:

    Na hora de preencher a declaraìßão do IR, ì© preciso informar possì≠veis doaìßìµes recebidas – via heranìßa, por exemplo. A doaìßão entra como rendimento isento e não tributì°vel”, explica Carlos Lima, consultor da Cenofisco. Contudo, precisa haver a contrapartida, ou seja, quem doou tambì©m deve declarar, informando o valor da doaìßão e para quem o bem ou o dinheiro foi doado. “Nesse caso, a pessoa que doou não paga IR, mas deve quitar o Imposto sobre Transmissão Causa Mortis e Doaìßão (ITCMD)”, alerta.

    O professor Josì© Antonio Minatel, da rede LFG, lembra que não dì° para driblar a obrigatoriedade de incluir as doaìßìµes na declaraìßão. “A informaìßão vai para as secretarias estaduais da Fazenda, que verifica o recebimento do ITCMD, o que dificulta a tentativa de esconder valores.”

    And the article goes on to state the following about declaring foreign inheritances, which are then of course subject to the ITCMD:
    No caso de heranìßa recebida lì° fora, vale a mesma regra de doaìßìµes, que devem ser incluì≠das em rendimentos isentos e não tributì°veis.

    Link here:

    http://www.valor.com.br/financas/3440458/despesas-especificas-exigem-atencao#ixzz2uNB1RS21
    Conclusion: do your own due diligence, instead of following glib “oh there’s no tax liability” from posters here who should absolutely know better before dispatching such irresponsible advice.

    miguel2014-02-25 17:10:10

  • #263964

    jacque
    Member

    Hi further to extensions on tourist visas….. met with a lawyer on Monday as my application for an extension was refused on the previous Friday…… I arrive at the same time and leave at the same time every year and have 5 extensions in my passport for each of the previous five years…. the lawyer “confirmed” that the calculation for an extension was based on a rolling 12 months, even though I’d been given contrary info by the Brasilian Embassy in Paris and the PF in Floripa five years ago…. he was unclear as to how the calculation works as I leave Brasil very year at the end of April and return at the end of November…. approx 7 months out of the country…it seems that the calculation is done by the computer and the police themselves were unable to explain why I was refused on this occasion but granted an extension on previous occasions.. his advice “leave the country and reenter on a new tourist visa”…. mad dash to the frontier at Foz da Iguassu where I just beat the deadline so have not overstayed the visa…. will try to return in the coming week and get another 90 day visa…. meanwhile checking out Uruguay….

  • #263965

    graham
    Participant

    @jackerie: if you are hanging out i Montevideo, do not miss lunch at the Mercado del Puerto in the old port of the city. the food is spectacular.

    good luck with your visa
  • #263966

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    Jack,
    Although certain people will disagree because that’s what they do, you’re a UK resident and not a Schengen resident, and thus you are not affected by the Brazil-Schengen agreement that entered into force in October 2012.
    You’ll find all the rules here: http://www.portalconsular.mre.gov.br/estrangeiros/quadro-geral-de-regime-de-vistos
    As you can see, UK is 8, which means 90 days. It’s also missing the * that the schengen countries and some others have, meaning the UK visa can be extended to a total of 180 days.
    Of course you can get a lawyer and bla bla bla, but the money’s better spent on a week in Montevideo.

  • #264117

    jacque
    Member

    Hi the eligibility as to getting an extension for a UK citizen is not at issue……it’s how the calculation is performed…. as I am in the country during the same period every year and request an extension on more or less the same date , tracking back 12 months and I was in the country on a previous extension, which added to the 90 days of my elapsing tourist visa means I have used up the 180 days…. even though I have been out of the country for more than 184 days consecutively…. if this is indeed how the calculation works I would need to be out of the country for a year in order to get a 90 day extension…. if that had been made clear five years ago I would not have bought a house and car in Brasil…… and I certainly would not be bringing money in to fix up the house…. similarly if one can no longer go out and come in on a new 90 day visa as a similar calculation applies, which I am about to find out, then it would be “game over” and I would need to see about extricating myself from the country…

  • #264118

    jacque
    Member

    Hi have spent my time in the interior, Tacuarembì≥ and Durazno looking for some info on the background of R.B. Cunninghame Graham’s story “Cruz Alta”….. peace and quiet aplenty and the food “wholesome”…. was in MVD in 1988 and it was one of the few places where a decent meal was to be had….

  • #264265

    do / can brazilians stil lget 6 months in the uk as a tourist?? ?

  • #27034

    Mother72
    Member

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