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Salaries – How much do you need to earn?

Home Forums Living in Brazil Salaries – How much do you need to earn?

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  • #275748

    brazil2010
    Member

    I need about 6000 BRL per month. Wife and 3 kids, in Floripa. I’ve been able to make this so far without too much trouble, but times are changing.

    Inflation is starting to bite. I spent 20 BRL on a 100g pack of Chilean walnuts yesterday!
    Below is what I see going on around me, am I correct?
    Poor people – minimum salary is something like 750 per month, enough to buy cesta basica and survive, but not much more. Rice, beans, coffee. However, many of these people don’t actually try very hard to earn more, they just blame the government and carry on voting for dilma.
    Middle class – As far as I know most middle class Brazilians here in Santa Catarina earn something like 2000 BRL per month but they get a load of benefits like free lunches, so we might conclude the total package is something like 2500. Then they all live with their extended family to save costs. This is not something I am willing to do. Total take home pay for a working couple might be 4k – 5K per month.
    Rich people – here in SC rich people seem to be earning something like 10,000 brl or up. Enough to make a combination of monthly payments (car, kids school, courses, condo) that make it appear they are much richer.
    Super rich/Politicians – seems like this group earn mega bucks, region of 30,000 brl per month or more for business owners/plastic surgeons etc. This group seems to include a large number of people who have inherited wealth and don’t try too hard at life, eg they run vanity businesses or are “artists” of one kind or another.
    Do you think my summary is accurate? Is your area of Brazil different?
    What do you need to earn and are you managing to make it?
  • #275836

    Anonymous

    I believe Brazilian economic classes are usually described as A-E or A-F; I wouldn’t think class A earn 30K a month, I’d guess higher on average to make it into that distinction.

  • #275841

    Finrudd
    Participant

    There was a time when you routinely heard of AAA or AA or A+ to describe those who earned vastly more than what was considered the ‘A’ bracket.

    However, I did some day-dream calculations for retirement with the following factors:
    – no kids, just myself and the wife
    – no mortgage/rent to pay
    – running one car
    – paying gas, electricity, telephone and internet
    – paying for caseiro’s wages
    – paying for fairly good health-plan
    – eating and drinking well, although producing as much of our own vegetables as possible
    – insurance (various – house, car, personal liability etc)
    We came up with a figure that was around R$8k per month, of which R$2k is for the Caseiro, so about R$6k per month without. Of course you can spend less and you can spend more, but that was for a lifestyle that I would retire in Brazil for. Much less than that to retire in the countryside outside SP Capital and I would be wondering if Brazil was the place I wanted to be.
    Right now, a private, low-risk cash fund of R$800k will return approximately R$8.000 per month (a fairly simple HSBC CDB), although this continuing is not something to base any retirement calculations on.
  • #275842

    ffm
    Member

    The one thing I would ask about your middle class assessment is, are you referring to single people? Where I live, families live off of that (if you call it living) but in two-three bedroom small houses that they struggle to maintain. Lots of debt. LOTS!
    I have a neighbor, who if I guessed, makes a third of what I make. His car is much better than mine. When he makes snide comments, which he is apt to do from time to time, I just say, “mine’s paid”. End of conversation.
    This debt is going to come to roost.

  • #275845

    Serrano
    Participant

    [QUOTE=jamest]Rich people Рhere in SC rich people seem to be earning something like 10,000 brl or up. Enough to make a combination of monthly payments (car, kids school, courses, condo) that make it appear they are much richer. [/QUOTE]
    The supposed ‘rich’ are just as indebted, as Abbot mentioned about the middle class. My account manager says the area of ilha de santa catarina (Floripa) that has most deliquent car payments are the wealthier enclaves at the north of the island (Jurere International,etc). The vehicles of choice usually carry a price tag of six figures as carro zeros. I didn’t live in a condominium fechada when I lived in Floripa, but friends who do always complained about how a third of the residents don’t pay their monthly association fees, and the ones who don’t pay usually have the newest and most expensive cars. The appearance of being wealthier is mere image. Yet it’s no different in the US, so hardly a Brasilian phenomenon. And when you have a govt that itself is in debt, is it any wonder the people play ‘follow the leader’?
    I’d say finrudd’s assessment of 6k, to live well, but not necessarily large, is reasonable (for a couple, no kids). No house or car payment certainly makes a HUGE difference!

  • #275848

    Anonymous

    The other thing to consider is whether you want to live and save or just live. Those in retirement are counting down years and dollars/reais; the rest of us are factoring in how much we need to save for retirement!

  • #275851

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=goingtobrasil31] The other thing to consider is whether you want to live and save or just live. Those in retirement are counting down years and dollars/reais; the rest of us are factoring in how much we need to save for retirement!

    [/QUOTE]
    Better re think it as how much time do we have to slip backwards in retirement due to lower earnings and savings unless you are given the high end ex pat corporate package. This rarely happens.
    On the flip side, as Brazil slides, good real estate opportunities will pop up. There will be a chance to own a property for a fraction of the U.S. or Eurozone price, and never pay rent creating a possible retirement surplus.

  • #275852

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] [QUOTE=goingtobrasil31] The other thing to consider is whether you want to live and save or just live. Those in retirement are counting down years and dollars/reais; the rest of us are factoring in how much we need to save for retirement!

    [/QUOTE]
    Better re think it as how much time do we have to slip backwards in retirement due to lower earnings and savings unless you are given the high end ex pat corporate package. This rarely happens.
    On the flip side, as Brazil slides, good real estate opportunities will pop up. There will be a chance to own a property for a fraction of the U.S. or Eurozone price, and never pay rent creating a possible retirement surplus. [/QUOTE]

    You absolutely do not need a fat corporate package to retire in the US or in Brazil; that is nonsense, if you believe that, you are spending wayyyyy too much money.
    The question is how many of your healthy years you want to trade to the office to consume luxury while you are old (>50 or 60).
    For me, as few as possible. Live simply and happy, retire early, be it in Brazil or elsewhere.
    All of the good things in life truly are free or cheap, even though we try to convince ourselves otherwise….
  • #275860

    ffm
    Member

    [QUOTE=goingtobrasil31]

    All of the good things in life truly are free or cheap, even though we try to convince ourselves otherwise….

    [/QUOTE]
    But all the necessary things in life are getting frighteningly expensive here in Brazzer land.
    ….unless of course you are an off the grid survivalist. Unfortunately (and I mean that because at times it seems so inviting) I still feed myself out of the societal trough (supermarkets, hortas, a√ɬßouges, etc.)

  • #275861

    celso
    Member

    Regardless of what you do to earn money, Brazil pays much lower third world wages. So you will save much less and w√ɬ†it longer to retire because everything costs more. This is why Brazilians go on shopping trips to the States…

  • #275863

    Finrudd
    Participant

    [QUOTE=goingtobrasil31]

    The question is how many of your healthy years you want to trade to the office to consume luxury while you are old (>50 or 60).
    For me, as few as possible. Live simply and happy, retire early, be it in Brazil or elsewhere.
    All of the good things in life truly are free or cheap, even though we try to convince ourselves otherwise….

    [/QUOTE]

    +1 for this. I would rather retire in my mid-40’s with less money, but some youth and health, then as a beaten wreck at 75 unable to re-adapt to life away from the desk.
  • #275864

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=finrudd] <span style=”line-height: 16.7999992370605px;”>[QUOTE=goingtobrasil31]</span><div style=”line-height: 16.7999992370605px;”>The question is how many of your healthy years you want to trade to the office to consume luxury while you are old (>50 or 60).√Ǭ†
    For me, as few as possible. Live simply and happy, retire early, be it in Brazil or elsewhere.√Ǭ†<div style=”line-height: 16.7999992370605px;”>
    <div style=”line-height: 16.7999992370605px;”>All of the good things in life truly are free or cheap, even though we try to convince ourselves otherwise….<span style=”line-height: 16.7999992370605px;”>[/QUOTE]</span><div style=”line-height: 16.7999992370605px;”>
    <div style=”line-height: 16.7999992370605px;”>+1 for this. I would rather retire in my mid-40’s with less money, but some youth and health, then as a beaten wreck at 75 unable to re-adapt to life away from the desk.[/QUOTE]
    Yes, of course! But who says you need an office job to destroy yourself to spend on luxury? My point is if you spend your best earning years working in Brazil, you will have much less even with the same job….

  • #275869

    kevin owen
    Participant

    Of course we all have to balance early retirement and earning enough to provide for that retirement, not something we can afford to get wrong.
    Whilst 6k sounds like a lot of money, and I am sure would do for day to day expenses, I think to live a decent life a retired couple would need more.
    You need to factor in buying new cars every 5 years, upkeep of your house( new roof etc). A foreign holiday or going “home” once a year. These things really add up.
    You really don’t want to find at 65 your money is not going to last.

  • #275870

    Steven
    Participant

    A lot of wild and crazy young Brazilians who can live on R$0 find that they can’t do that as they get older. Especially when it comes to health care, unless you want to spend your days lying on a gurney in the corridor of a public hospital. I think that typically the family picks up the responsibility of taking care of the old timer whose irresponsibility as a young stallion put themselves into the big mess they have to endure in old age.

  • #275874

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Steven]A lot of wild and crazy young Brazilians who can live on R$0 find that they can’t do that as they get older. Especially when it comes to health care, unless you want to spend your days lying on a gurney in the corridor of a public hospital. I think that typically the family picks up the responsibility of taking care of the old timer whose irresponsibility as a young stallion put themselves into the big mess they have to endure in old age. [/QUOTE]

    So true. I’m financially successful and I think about those close to me who are out partying not working like I do…in the end, family is family…
  • #276034

    noodle456
    Member

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]
    My point is if you spend your best earning years working in Brazil, you will have much less even with the same job….[/QUOTE]

    That is the important lesson here. If you have European, US, Japanese, Australian, or any other major economy citizenship it is much better to stay working in the major economy and saving during your working years. Once you have your small retiring fund you can go live in the cheap small economy country like Nicaragua, Costa Rica, etc and you can live decades more with that money than you could back home. I don’t add countries like Brazil into this list because they are just as expensive as any wealthy country. You can also retire much earlier and healthier if you do that.
  • #276047

    I net $8,000 usd monthly passive income from private investments, 50 years of age, one wife, 1 dog, 1 cat. No kids and Recife is cheap. Life is good.

  • #277349

    Anonymous

    pls I need someone to tell how well company pays in brazil,minimum salary n is foreign certificate valued in brazil.i studied mech engr does dt mean I wl b workn as casual cos am a foreigner.i wnt to meet people in brazil.

  • #28459

    Ana:B
    Member

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