• Author
    Posts
  • #223812

    Luca
    Member

    On Sunday I tried to withdraw money at a Banco do Brasil terminal. I got the aviso “sem comunicaçao”, operation failed. I then tried another terminal, thinking it might be an isolated problem. Same result: Sem comunicaçao, operation failed. Hmmm. I then figured it might be an issue with that branch, so I went to another Banco do Brasil branch. Tried again, same result. I then tried with a card from another bank, same result. All in all, four tries without getting a single centavo out. Today, 2 days later, I looked at my statement online and to my surprise the bank took out the entire amount (4 times 1000 reais) from my account! So apparently the “sem comunicao” message meant that they had communication to verify the card data with my bank and process the withdrawal request but did not have communication to inform my bank that the operations failed.
    I guess i’ll have to make the journey back to the two agencies and explain it to a manager..
    Has this ever happened to any of you? How did you solve it?tbird2012-10-16 07:45:39

  • #223819

    doctorlili
    Member

    I have found its hit or miss with the ATM working, outside of normal business hours more miss than hit.
    B..b..b..but, but having them charge the account without giving the money out is a HUGE problem. Please tell us how it goes. You might potentially never see your money because how do you prove you didn’t get it. The ATM is a total failure if it charges without first counting out the money. WTF!!

  • #223820

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    Wow, that sucks, I have had that sem comunicação error, but it never took money too, mine wouldn’t even let me take more than R$1000/day.

  • #223822

    Luca
    Member

    Yes, I am pretty sure that I can’t take out more than R$1000 per day per card. So this shouldn’t even be possible.tbird2012-10-16 10:49:04

  • #223823

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=Squiddie] The ATM is a total failure if it charges without first counting out the money. WTF!!
    [/QUOTE]
    I am about to hire Sven to file a law suit against someone. tbird2012-10-16 08:38:27

  • #223824

    agri2001
    Participant

    [QUOTE=tbird] [QUOTE=Squiddie] The ATM is a total failure if it charges without first counting out the money. WTF!!
    [/QUOTE]
    I am about to hire Sven to file a law suit against someone. [/QUOTE]
    These were cards issued from a Brazilian bank (BB) or foreign.

  • #223826

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=agri2001]
    [QUOTE=tbird] [QUOTE=Squiddie] The ATM is a total failure if it charges without first counting out the money. WTF!!
    [/QUOTE]
    I am about to hire Sven to file a law suit against someone. [/QUOTE]These were cards issued from a Brazilian bank (BB) or foreign. [/QUOTE]
    Foreign.

  • #223828

    agri2001
    Participant

    I was able to use my foreign atm cards in all of the Maestro ATM`s here in Brazil except BB.
    As of April of this year I have been denied with the only exception being BB ( which in the past it would not permit withdrawals) and only for a limit of BR$700 each day.
    I contacted my bank in Europe and they said no problem on their end, I contacted the various banks of the Maestro rede here in Brazil and they say its my banks fault.
    I don’t know what to believe but someone told me at my bank in the EU that in Brazil they upgraded? changed? their Maestro software recently and that might be the problem.
    Don’t know if that’s your predicament or not.

  • #223829

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    The way it has always worked for me is that there is a R$1000 limit per day. This limit appears in a message on the ATM screen. In practice, this is on a single account (at the US end) in the entire system (no going down the street). But since I have two checking accounts and two cards at at one bank and another at a third, I can if I wish take up to R$3000 a day. You need adequate daily limits on the cash withdrawals set high enough.
    I have had cases where there were hiccups and I was charged and no cash was issued. The local bank shows varying amounts of concern, but normally has little to do with it, as the ATMs, they say, are operated by a third party. Certainly, I believe, the electronic international transaction is done by someone else. So I have to report the problem to my US bank where they lodge a failed transaction and start an investigation. They then deposit provisorily the missing money back into my checking account pending the out come of the investigation. Normally the missing money is found after a month or more then redeposited in my account and the temporary deposit withdrawn. I think they verify the complaint at the end of a month end accounting. This is always done through my US bank, the Brazilian bank only is able to politely obfuscate.
    Mondays can be weird because the daily limit is affected by transactions made over the weekend, and in yesterday’s case going back to Friday I believe because of the holiday. These earlier transactions always give me the false impression of being carried out on Monday, as that is how they look online, until I sit down and think back to what I did over the weekend.
    jacare2012-10-16 09:21:50

  • #223832

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    I always use HSBC atms to take out money, for some reason they seem to work the best for me.

  • #223836

    Derekcool
    Member

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy] I always use HSBC atms to take out money, for some reason they seem to work the best for me. [/QUOTE]
    +1 HSBC or Citibank or Banco 24horas.

  • #223841

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=jacare]
    The way it has always worked for me is that there is a R$1000 limit per day. This limit appears in a message on the ATM screen. In practice, this is on a single account (at the US end) in the entire system (no going down the street). But since I have two checking accounts and two cards at at one bank and another at a third, I can if I wish take up to R$3000 a day. You need adequate daily limits on the cash withdrawals set high enough.I have had cases where there were hiccups and I was charged and no cash was issued. The local bank shows varying amounts of concern, but normally has little to do with it, as the ATMs, they say, are operated by a third party. Certainly, I believe, the electronic international transaction is done by someone else. So I have to report the problem to my US bank where they lodge a failed transaction and start an investigation. They then deposit provisorily the missing money back into my checking account pending the out come of the investigation. Normally the missing money is found after a month or more then redeposited in my account and the temporary deposit withdrawn. I think they verify the complaint at the end of a month end accounting. This is always done through my US bank, the Brazilian bank only is able to politely obfuscate.Mondays can be weird because the daily limit is affected by transactions made over the weekend, and in yesterday’s case going back to Friday I believe because of the holiday. These earlier transactions always give me the false impression of being carried out on Monday, as that is how they look online, until I sit down and think back to what I did over the weekend.
    [/QUOTE]
    Jacare, thanks for sharing that. I’m waiting another day before I go to the bank. It’s crowded like a bus station and I don’t have the cool head to deal with those people today.
    I did talk to a bank manager. He said, as you mentioned, that the ATMs are managed by a third party and that if I know which terminals I used, they can check it and see if they can find my (failed) transactions.
    I have been taking money out at banco do brasil regularly over the last 60 days. It was the least expensive solution I found to bring my money to Brazil.
    Never really had any problems. A couple of times the ATM would run out of money on me and I would get a failed transaction message. Depending on the bank card I used, my bank would withhold the funds for 10 days or so before getting released (from the logic of it, I deduce that the amount is always debited when you make the request, in order to check for funds, and then it is confirmed when the money is dispensed, so two communications in total).
    This time, though a different time of error (sem comunicacao), the money went straight out of my accounts.
    I also asked the bank manager- he confirmed that the limit is 1000 reais per day per card/account. So it shouldn’t be possible to have three withdrawals of 1000 reais on the same day (the 4th attempt was with another bank).
    I am just afraid that I’ll have to spend money on international phone calls now and perhaps worse, on getting stuff translated and certified etc. etc.
    tbird2012-10-16 11:02:13

  • #223842

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=tbird] I am just afraid that I’ll have to spend money on international phone calls now and perhaps worse, on getting stuff translated and certified etc. etc.[/QUOTE]
    Get Skype. My bank is an 800 number, a free call.

  • #223846

    Luca
    Member

    Oh, good point. That will work for my Bank of America account. My other three attempts were with a card from ING Direct Spain. Spain is almost as backwards as Brazil; will have to call.
    And oh, where I live we only get 2 MB speed from Oi and the bandwidth is crap- will have to call when the town is asleep. tbird2012-10-16 11:23:10

  • #223847

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=tbird] Oh, good point. That will work for my Bank of America account. My other three attempts were with a card from ING Direct Spain. Spain is almost as backwards as Brazil; will have to call.
    And oh, where I live we only get 2 MB speed from Oi and the bandwidth is crap- will have to call when the town is asleep. [/QUOTE]
    Your ATM’s may have been tampered with. Common crime in Brazil is to place a device on ATM that reads the card and grabs the pin number. Once you leave, the gang retreives the device and prints a new card from blank and then take money from the account.
    Another common crime is the saidinha bancaria. When client leaves bank, he is attacked and robbed. Often a lookout is in the bank eying target who made a large withdrawal.
    Always scan ATM area for strange types standing about. I was with my GF some years ago and she spotted some very strange types standing about the ATM lobby (weekend, no security guard) we agreed it looked like a setup so we walked on. GreatBallsoFire2012-10-16 11:33:52

  • #223850

    rebalina
    Member

    ^ that device sounds probable…a bank charging you and you getting no money sounds terrifying :O
    What bugs me most is having to insert and remove your card TWICE when getting cash…. what’s that about? if someone tries to rob you, your card is in your hand so you can just run off?
    half the time the machine wont be able to read it (usually only on the second swipe…annoyingly), meaning I can’t get money (Bradesco is especially crap at this)

  • #223870

    doctorlili
    Member

    At least being a foreign bank, you may have a recourse. Get on the phone with the ASAP

  • #223971

    Caio Andretta
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Squiddie] You might potentially never see your money because how do you prove you didn’t get it.
    [/QUOTE]
    This is not really true, you always have proof. If the bank obtained R$1000 but the ATM machine still has R$1000 more in reserves than it should have, there you have your proof.
    If you can use this in your case is a second matter. But I prefer to think that banks are there to help you.
    Do make sure though that the transaction is 100% over, and another card can be inserted! Imagine R$1000 popping out after a minute .
    Maybe it is better to start getting R$100 out of an ATM, before making a R$1000 withdrawal. This country is getting harder and harder to live in without headaches haha.
    But it does sound scary, especially in Brazil. Such a thing happened with me in Holland and I never even worried a second. I knew it would all be handled…

  • #224166

    Luca
    Member

    I think that what Labyras says makes sense; it ought to be fairly easy for them to look up the time and date of my failed transactions electronically.
    However I went to the bank and was told that the standard procedure in this situation is for the card holder to contact the bank where the card was issued and file a complaint.
    Oh, and today – 4 days later – I went to a BdoB terminal at the shopping center (never had any issues there before) and the same thing happened: Transaction not completed, ‘sem comunicao.’ Went home and checked my account. Yep, money had been debited.

  • #224170

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    i suggest you stop testing it…

  • #224172

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy] i suggest you stop testing it…[/QUOTE]
    LOL, yeah no kidding. It’s ridiculous.
    I wasn’t really testing though. To me it was unconceivable that the same problem would happen again, 4 days later, at a different site.
    Its a bit of a mystery. I’ll wait a couple of days and then try at a HSBC or something..tbird2012-10-18 15:52:44

  • #224185

    doctorlili
    Member

    So have you talked with them? You need to do that ASAP, they might tell you you have taken the cash and trying to defraud them. Cash is difficult to track, don’t wait a minute longer to call these guys at home!!

  • #224194

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=Squiddie] So have you talked with them? You need to do that ASAP, they might tell you you have taken the cash and trying to defraud them. Cash is difficult to track, don’t wait a minute longer to call these guys at home!!
    [/QUOTE]
    Yeah, I have called my banks at home to dispute the transactions. Takes 6 days with one bank (ING Spain)and up to 45 with the other (Bank of America), though the latter made the funds available to me until the conclusion of their “investigation.”
    I am still going to do something about it here in Brazil, too. tbird2012-10-18 17:25:37

  • #224293

    Wellington
    Member

    I saw this thread a few days ago and ignored it but the same thing just happened to me today! I tried to withdraw 1000 and the machine took about 10 minutes rolling over, making noises “contando cedulas” and then finalized the transaction by saying there was a fault with the counting. I’m only allowed one withdrawal per day up to the limit on the debit card so obviously when I tried again at another machine the request was refused on the basis that the bank had already given me my daily bread. So my UK bank has given 350 pounds to the Banco do Brasil but the BdB has not given me my 1000 Reais. Luckily there was a bank clerk nearby who witnessed everything. He said that at the end of the day the machine would do an analysis and notice that is had 1000 more that it should. He said to wait a few days and the money would be returned to my bank in the UK.
    Now here’s the interesting part. This happened to me last year also, so I already know the drill. What left my Bank as 350 Pounds, and then came to Brazil as 1000 Reais, will return to my bank as 325 pounds (more or less) because the flow of the 1000 Reais is in the other direction. Nothing I can do about it.man of leisure2012-10-19 17:23:38

  • #224314

    Caio Andretta
    Participant

    Interesting to suddenly see this happening. Please keep us up to date, maybe we all need to start avoiding BdB

  • #224356

    ACaljr
    Member

    This ATM problem happened to me twice on the 13th of October 2012, there was a “sem comunicaçao” message on the machine and there was no money

    dispensed. When I went home and checked my US account online and to my amazement I was debited twice (R$2000 total) which was strange since there is a limit of R$1000 at Banco do Brasil. I recorded the time when this incident happened which was a Saturday around noon time.
    What I did:
    I called my US bank right away on that Saturday (October 13, 2012) and they told me to wait until Monday the 15th to see if the transactions will clear. Monday came and my bank verified that the two debits went through so now I am out of R$2000 which made me frustrated since I needed to use the money.
    I went to the BDB branch where the ATM machine was located and I spoke to the manager and told her about my problem. She was very helpful and she said she will print out the transaction receipts for me. She used this plastic white card on the machine and printed the transactions for me. The receipt contains the amount of my transactions but it was difficult to be sure because according to her since my card was issued overseas, the receipt only shows a series of numbers (not my card number) so she told me that she will write down my card info and do a research and I will just have to come back in two days.
    Two days later I went to the branch again and the manager gave me a printout of my transactions in a different format. She did the research based on my card number and name. She found the records of these ATM errors. It was very obvious that I should not have been debited let alone twice because the machine did not dispense the cash.
    Unfortunately she said that I needed to dispute these debits to my US bank because their policy is to return the money only after my US bank filed the dispute. She gave me a case number for this problem and she said somebody will call me from BDB which I received two days later.The bank representative told me the same thing what the manager said.
    The latest development: My US bank sent me via email a dispute form which I filled out and sent back to them. I also included the print out receipt from BDB and I explained to my US bank what happened on the form. The officer of my bank branch in the US told me that I will get a temporary credit pending the investigation which can take up to three months which is quite an inconvenience. Also my US bank needed the original dispute form with signature on it but the manager told me to fax it first and send the originals after that.
    I will post again when I get an update. The scary part of this experience is that the banks here in Brazil will never return your money if you don’t dispute them with your overseas bank. The Brazilian banks should just return what does not belong to them and why DEBIT your foreign account when their system is screwed up. I hope this helps the members of this forum who had the same annoying experience. Thanks.

    funnyc20062012-10-20 17:07:20

  • #224361

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=funnyc2006]
    This ATM problem happened to me twice¬†on the 13th of October 2012, there was a “sem comunicaçao” message on the machine and there was no money

    dispensed. When I went home and checked my US account online and to my amazement I was debited twice (R$2000 total) which was strange since there is a limit of R$1000 at Banco do Brasil. I recorded the time when this incident happened which was a Saturday around noon time.
     
    What I did:
     
    I called my US bank right away on that Saturday (October 13, 2012) and they told me to wait until Monday the 15th to see if the transactions will clear. Monday came and my bank verified that the two debits went through so now I am out of R$2000 which made me frustrated since I needed to use the money.
     
    I went to the BDB  branch where the ATM machine was located and I spoke to the manager and told her about my problem. She was very helpful and she said she will print out the transaction receipts for me. She used this plastic white card on the machine and printed the transactions for me. The receipt contains the amount of my transactions but it was difficult to be sure because according to her since my card was issued overseas, the receipt only shows a series of numbers (not my card number) so she told me that she will write down my card info and do a research and I will just have to come back in two days.
     
    Two days later I went to the branch again and the manager gave me a printout of my transactions in a different format. She did the research based on my card number and name. She found the records of these ATM errors. It was very obvious that I should not have been debited let alone twice because the machine did not dispensed the cash.
     
    Unfortunately she said that I needed to dispute these debits to my US bank because their policy is to return the money only after my US bank filed the dispute. She gave me a case number for this problem and she said somebody will call me from BDB which I received two days later.The bank representative told me the same thing what the manager said.
     
    The latest development: My US bank sent me via email a dispute form which I filled out and sent back to them. I also included the print out receipt from BDB and I explained to my US bank what happened on the form. The officer of my bank branch in the US told me that I will get a temporary credit pending the investigation which can take up to three months which is quite an inconvenience. Also my US bank needed the original dispute form with signature on it but the manager told me to fax it first and send the originals after that.
     
    I will post again when I get an update. The scary part of this experience is that the banks here in Brazil will never return your money if you don’t dispute¬†them with your overseas bank. The Brazilian banks should just return what does not belong to them and why DEBIT your foreign account when their system is screwed up. I hope this helps the members of this forum who had the same annoying experience. Thanks.
     
     

    [/QUOTE]
    Thank you for sharing! There seem to have been a major issue with their IT systems on that weekend. My incidents happened on Sunday the 14th (and again on the 18th).
    I was also told at BdoB that the standard operating procedure is for the card holder to dispute the transactions with the bank where the card was issued.
    I have filed my complaints and my gringo banks are investigating. But I will also insist on having someone do something about it locally. I have an appointment with the branch manager of one of the places on Monday. Unfortunately I tried in three different locations (one at a shopping where there is no bank employees to talk to) and I am currently down 5000 reais….
    tbird2012-10-20 15:27:04

  • #224366

    ACaljr
    Member

    If you can have any of the BDB branch to document all these transactions as I did then you can give that to your foreign bank as proof.The bank representative of my US bank told me that ATM dispute is very tedious because of the fact that we used our PIN number to do the transactions and that we authorized it technically.

    funnyc20062012-10-20 17:23:06

  • #224393

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    Looks like the ATMs in Brazil are in training for the Copa and Olympics.

  • #224520

    toolio
    Participant

    I have had two of the dreaded “sem comunicaçao” errors at Banco do Brasil ATMS in the past two days. r$1.000 each down the drain. I know the drill because I’ve been taking money from my Canadian accounts at ATMs here for well over 10 years. Talked to my bank today–twice–after discovering the funds had been debited from my accounts. In my experience a gringo bank can usually get the money back after a few weeks.
    Brasilian banks refuse to deal with this. They have always refused to deal with it. It’s not even worth the effort to get them to try.
    My Canadian bank confirms (as it always has) that it is the responsibility of the cardholders’ bank to chase it down–which means in my case a formal request to B do B for investigation.
    I have had the same thing happen at HSBC machines over the years,
    As I understand it, the first time you put your card in the machine and enter the password it sends the request for funds, including the debit info, to your foreign bank. The second time you insert the card it is awaiting confirmation from the foreign bank. If the communication fails at that point the machine refuses to issue the funds for which you have been debited.
    Having said that, I remain convinced that banks here do nothing to improve their communication networks because they can pocket extra change from unsuspecting gringoes who don’t notice or don’t complain. I have used ATMS worldwide since they were invented, and only in Brasil has one ever failed to produce cash.
    For me an ATM remains the most accessible means for getting cash from my Canadian accounts. But it sure pisses me off when it doesn’t work.
    What pisses me off most is that the B do B machines I use failed to issue any kind of printout saying there was an error. However, they issue printouts when a transaction is successful. Further grist for my theory that something remains wrong here on purpose. A slip with “”sem comunicaçao” would make it very easy to prove one’s case. Otherwise it’s our word against theirs.
    HSBC machines, on the other hand, often print error slips when things go wrong.
    Another thing I find highly suspicious is the fact that machines can almost always read your card on the first insertion., But on the second a “read error” message is common–although sometimes rectified by inserting it again. If it fails to read the card the second time you don’t get the money, yet it is often debited to your account back home. ATMs in Brasil didn’t always have this “double insertion” scheme. There was a time when you had to insert the card only once, much like machines in many countries. Things worked far better then, in my experience.
    On my last trip to Canada I replaced and tested all my bank cards. They are all new and work fine there. Yet the frequent read error on the second insertion persists in Brasil. Very odd. If it can read the first, what could the problem possibly be 30 seconds later?
    toolio2012-10-22 17:45:42

  • #224538

    Patigell
    Member

    [QUOTE=toolio] I have had two of the dreaded “sem comunicaçao” errors at Banco do Brasil ATMS in the past two days. r$1.000 each down the drain. I know the drill because I’ve been taking money from my Canadian accounts at ATMs here for well over 10 years. Talked to my bank today–twice–after discovering the funds had been debited from my accounts. In my experience a gringo bank can usually get the money back after a few weeks.

    Brasilian banks refuse to deal with this. They have always refused to deal with it. It’s not even worth the effort to get them to try.

    My Canadian bank confirms (as it always has) that it is the responsibility of the cardholders’ bank to chase it down–which means in my case a formal request to B do B for investigation.

    I have had the same thing happen at HSBC machines over the years,
    As I understand it, the first time you put your card in the machine and enter the password it sends the request for funds, including the debit info, to your foreign bank. The second time you insert the card it is awaiting confirmation from the foreign bank. If the communication fails at that point the machine refuses to issue the funds for which you have been debited.

    Having said that, I remain convinced that banks here do nothing to improve their communication networks because they can pocket extra change from unsuspecting gringoes who don’t notice or don’t complain. I have used ATMS worldwide since they were invented, and only in Brasil has one ever failed to produce cash.

    For me an ATM remains the most accessible means for getting cash from my Canadian accounts. But it sure pisses me off when it doesn’t work.
    What pisses me off most is that the B do B machines I use failed to issue any kind of printout saying there was an error. However, they issue printouts when a transaction is successful. Further grist for my theory that something remains wrong here on purpose. A slip with “”sem comunicaçao” would make it very easy to prove one’s case. Otherwise it’s our word against theirs.

    HSBC machines, on the other hand, often print error slips when things go wrong.

    Another thing I find highly suspicious is the fact that machines can almost always read your card on the first insertion., But on the second a “read error” message is common–although sometimes rectified by inserting it again. If it fails to read the card the second time you don’t get the money, yet it is often debited to your account back home. ATMs in Brasil didn’t always have this “double insertion” scheme. There was a time when you had to insert the card only once, much like machines in many countries. Things worked far better then, in my experience.

    On my last trip to Canada I replaced and tested all my bank cards. They are all new and work fine there. Yet the frequent read error on the second insertion persists in Brasil. Very odd. If it can read the first, what could the problem possibly be 30 seconds later?

    [/QUOTE] Toolio, Been wondering the same thing actually. Anyhow has been my experience in the North East many times. I think the banks same attitude applys when there is identify theft. They always assume our gringo banks will sort it out. Many people with myself included have got scammed by these HSBC machines.

  • #224544

    dodge
    Member

    If an ATM anywhere did not give me my money and I was debited at Central or wherever, then I would be completely livid. I’d go ape sh-t for sure. If your local Brasilian manager does not offer any help at all then this would be enough for me to leave Brasil and never go back.

  • #224550

    doctorlili
    Member

    pilot_expat, then you are on the ejector seat Wink
    toolio, thanks for explaining the ramifications of the double insertion scheme. I never can find my card the second time, I am certain I must have cancelled a transaction or timed out in the attempt at that time. But I have not seen still being debited — and did not check. This is somewhat unnerving.

  • #224751

    Luca
    Member

    So far they have credited back three of the five transactions I have disputed.

  • #224785

    dodge
    Member

    Few months back someone stole my US debit card number and illegally charged over R$3.000.00. Was not notified until like 3 days later after the fact. Card stopped working. Called my US bank. Was told low life crooks use a mini camera or copy paper and shove the material or cam inside the track where you slide your card. Once you take money and leave, the assailant behind you pulls out the camera or copy paper with all your information. This happened at an ATM in Flamengo suburb of Rio on the main street forgot the name. Had zero cash. Promised my Hotel my new card was coming FedEx in 3 days. Was forced to eat in the Hotel. I had NO cash! pilot_expat2012-10-25 08:03:50

  • #224789

    Marc Maserati
    Participant

    Is this happening only at BDB or others too? I’m getting paid in cash until I have my paperwork in order so I’m not using a bank yet.
    -Marc

  • #224795

    toolio
    Participant

    In my experience Banco do Brasil is by far the worst. I have had it happen at HSBC from time to time, but not often. Those are the only ATMs I use for withdrawals from my foreign accounts, so I don’t know about others.
    At B do B, particularly over the past few months, there is a pretty good chance that you might not receive your money. Trouble is, for me HSBC machines are a considerable drive from home, while B do B machines are nearby.

  • #224803

    dodge
    Member

    HSBC is best.

  • #225587

    rebalina
    Member

    [quote]Another thing I find highly suspicious is the fact that machines can almost always read your card on the first insertion., But on the second a “read error” message is common–although sometimes rectified by inserting it again. If it fails to read the card the second time you don’t get the money, yet it is often debited to your account back home.[/quote]
    i’m also wondering about the double insert….. for me, yea, it’s the second time it cant be read. But as far as I know I’ve never been debited for one of these failed transactions…. i think I’m gonna have to keep a closer eye on it

  • #225591

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=toolio] In my experience Banco do Brasil is by far the worst. I have had it happen at HSBC from time to time, but not often. Those are the only ATMs I use for withdrawals from my foreign accounts, so I don’t know about others. At B do B, particularly over the past few months, there is a pretty good chance that you might not receive your money. Trouble is, for me HSBC machines are a considerable drive from home, while B do B machines are nearby.
    [/QUOTE]
    I have never had a problem with Banco do Brasil. In fact the BdB ATM allows you to pick how you want the bank notes. 100’s only or a mix. Nice.

  • #225594

    toolio
    Participant

    Twice for me again this week at Banco do Brasil machines in Salvador. I’ve been taking out money to buy a car so I’m making a lot of transactions. My Canadian bank is now working on R$7000 of missing Banco do Brasil money. Quite disgusting, really.

  • #225602

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=toolio] Twice for me again this week at Banco do Brasil machines in Salvador. I’ve been taking out money to buy a car so I’m making a lot of transactions. My Canadian bank is now working on R$7000 of missing Banco do Brasil money. Quite disgusting, really.[/QUOTE]
    What a shocking event! Was this for the C3?

  • #225631

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]
    What a shocking event! Was this for the C3?[/QUOTE]
    Yes, for the C3. I think Banco do Brasil is trying to wipe out my IPI discount, LOL. I will eventually get the funds back through my Canadian bank, but it can take quite a while. Regardless, this should never happen.

  • #225679

    Luca
    Member

    It happened again to me on Friday. This time the error message was “cartao inválido”. I wasnt worried because I have had this message before with no consequence. Today I checked my account and to my (not so big) surprise, the money has been debited. Now I have to make another international phone call to dispute the transaction…
    tbird2012-11-05 16:20:25

  • #225689

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    – Albert Einstein

  • #225690

    Luca
    Member

    [QUOTE=jacare] Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.- Albert Einstein
    [/QUOTE]
    LOL. I got the message.
    Instead of sticking my ATM card in an ATM machine, I might as well stick it in a toaster. Afterall, who needs money anyway.

  • #225698

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=tbird] [QUOTE=jacare] Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.- Albert Einstein
    [/QUOTE]
    LOL. I got the message.
    Instead of sticking my ATM card in an ATM machine, I might as well stick it in a toaster. Afterall, who needs money anyway.[/QUOTE]
    I am now taking cash to exchange and avoid the banks. Scary to think BdoB is charging without paying out on the ATM’s. This should be reported the the New York Times. Also contact the consumer protection agency in Brazil…

  • #225700

    I had this same problem with B of B 2 weeks ago and called my bank. I got a provisional credit within 2 days. Since then I use Banco 24 Horas and had no problems so far. Stay far away from B of B right now they used to be excellent but are not good at this moment. I would use HSBC but it is too far for me to ride my Bicycle to from where I live LOL.

  • #225701

    celso
    Member

    Any comments on Bradesco and Itau ATMs?
    Segunda vida gives Banco 24 Horas thumbs up. I find they tend to charge hefty ATN fees.

  • #225706

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] Any comments on Bradesco and Itau ATMs?
    Segunda vida gives Banco 24 Horas thumbs up. I find they tend to charge hefty ATN fees.[/QUOTE]
    The trouble with Bradesco and Itau machines is that withdrawal limits are low so you’re paying hefty fees for less money. In other words a greater percentage.
    Banco 24 horas user fees area absurd. I had plenty of problems with those machines not giving me money in the past, before they jacked up their fees. I haven’t used one in two years.
    Interestingly today I got the “error reading card” on the second insertion at an HSBC machine. Unlike B do B it did not debit my account…a pleasant surprise.

  • #226697

    ACaljr
    Member

    I used the ATM machine again today of BdB here in Sao Paulo and I got the “no communication” error again. I went to my bank account online right away and they deducted my account yet again. Something is not right here! I had three disputes now with BdB and I am just wondering why this problem keeps happening. This is definitely becoming like a fraudulent activity of this bank because this problem keeps happening and if you don’t dispute it or for people who are not vigilant, they will just keep your money.

  • #226705

    Yes it is true 24 Horas charges R$12 which I agree is absurd but better to pay the fee and walk away with your money then the alternative that B of B offers. I also like the fact that they show exactely how much in US$ will be taken from your account before you confirm the transaction. I have seen communication errors on rare occasions (last year) however they have never deducted the money from my account. I was not aware that Itau offers international transactions at their ATM locations unless this has changed. Can anyone confirm this? Meanwhile B of B continues to present the same behavior so I will avoid them like the plague until this problem is corrected. HSBC and CitiBank are both excellent alternatives however for me who rides a bike and having no car they are too far away to be convenient.

  • #226708

    Luca
    Member

    I stopped using Banco do Brasil as the errors happened much too frequently. Probably one in four or perhaps one in three withdrawal attempts ended with some sort of error message and money missing in my accoint. This all started to happen in October. Before that I had never experienced any problem with ATMs anywhere in Brasil, or in the world for that matter. I am now using HSBC and, knock on wood, still haven’t encountered any problems.

  • #226713

    cantak
    Member

    I bank with a Nigerian bank which is a ‘pao duru’. I have had ‘sem comunicacao’ couple of times. Sometimes nothing is deducted from my account and one time money was reversed in 24hrs which is standard with Nigerian banks. Only the ATM withdrawal fee was not reverted which is like 12reais. And talking about limit my card is a master platinum with $3k daily withdrawal limit when I need more than 1k reias I would do 1k at banco do brasil, 1k bradesco, etc..
    I will only have to go to different banks. My girlfriend as a store. So I’m thinking maybe it will be good to swipe around $9k on her POS machine to have money in bulk instead of the atm runnings. But then who knows what tax may come with that on her side. And for someone like that her reasons such money must be spent asap that will be disadvantage too. As she will come with a $9k worth of problem to solve :(
    By the way what bank gives the best exchange rate via ATM withdrawal?
    virtalist20002012-11-16 06:15:12

  • #226714

    celso
    Member

    I now bring in cash and get a good exchange rate at the airport. Some houses always pay more so it pays to shop. I got 2.05 for the dollar a few days ago and they sell at 2.15. No bank fees or ATM charges.
    So far the Citibank and HSBC banks appear to be the best ATMs.
    BdB should be sued for theft of client assets. Ideas Sven? This could be huge. Tens of thousands of foreign cards charged yet not given cash for the transaction. Perhaps Visa could be sued as well for fomacao de quadrilha.

  • #226741

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]I now bring in cash and get a good exchange rate at the airport. Some houses always pay more so it pays to shop. I got 2.05 for the dollar a few days ago and they sell at 2.15. No bank fees or ATM charges.
    So far the Citibank and HSBC banks appear to be the best ATMs.
    BdB should be sued for theft of client assets. Ideas Sven? This could be huge. Tens of thousands of foreign cards charged yet not given cash for the transaction. Perhaps Visa could be sued as well for fomacao de quadrilha.[/QUOTE]
    ClapPlus 1

  • #226743

    toolio
    Participant

    Allow me to make a suggestion re B do B bank machine ripoffs.
    I did this a few weeks ago, and it seems marginally effective. At least it makes the issue public.
    Anyone so inclined should consider a visit to the B do B Facebook page and post a warning in Portuguese to gringoes thinking of using B do B machines. Just post it under the latest B do B entries on their own page for all to see. They will react by asking you to contact them about the details, which of course is pointless. You can then respond again publicly by stating that you are aware the sem comunicação problem is widespread and that you are personally aware that many gringoes are having this problem.
    It then becomes a matter of public record for all to see, and B do B is forced to deal with it publicly.
    Perhaps if we all make a co-ordinated effort to do this every time we get ripped off, it will become a thorn on B do B’s side. They like to keep a clean, negative-free Facebook site–impossible if we keep posting.
    Just an idea.

  • #227020

    miguel
    Participant

    The onlyreason I still maintain a US-based Citibank account is that, at least from personal experience over the last couple decades, the ATM withdrawal process here in their branded ATMs has been problem-free. Several years ago you could face situations of no-cash withdrawals but these were never actually debited. Nowadays a message will pop up after you insert your card and before you receive your cash warning you of overall cash limits or even of small denominations, in addition to the actual exchange rate.
    I nearly closed this account a few years ago with the mandatory 3% foreign exchange fee, but there are different account packages (aside from Citigold, like Global Executive Banking) where that fee is waived and you can receive close to the wholesale interbank rate.
    Depending on your account package you can receive up to US$2,000 in daily cash withdrawals per account (up to two accounts) on the same ATM or debit card. However, local ATM machines may have their own daily withdrawal limits, based on amount, or total number of withdrawals per account.
    Do NOT open an account with Citi Brazil expecting to achieve instant international transfers or otherwise preferential treatment for such transfers based on your overseas Citi account. Citi Brazil is a separate legal entity and there are virtually no advantages to having a local account leveraged off of your overseas account. In fact, it could actually be counterproductive given previous anti-money-laundering scrutiny from internal and external audits. Further, I have found their local product offerings and pricing generally uncompetitive.
    miguel2012-11-20 15:51:05

  • #227552

    Poppe
    Participant

    Score one more for the ‘sem comunicação’ problem at BdB… the ATM went through all the motions then gave the error, lo and behold money was taken from my UK bank account immediately.
    I reported it at the local BdB branch (the ATM was in a mall) they gave me a number to call and told me the money will be credited back to my account within 10 days. The manager said it’s been a problem lately, apparently if you select different notes and the machine doesn’t have them it can cause this error!
    I had always used B do B when I was here last year and never had a problem, I find it a bit suspect that there are all of these similar cases over the last couple of months…

  • #227555

    Luca
    Member

    I am now using HSBC. At least there when there is an error, you get a piece of paper so it isn’t your word against the bank’s word. Regarding getting the money back, you usually have to call your bank and dispute the transactions. I still have a transaction from Nov 8th that hasn’t been fixed. Now I need to call the bank or I will never see the money again.

  • #227745

    mauriciocnm
    Member

    I have reached the same conclusion: HSBC is definitely safer now. I have had three “sem comunicacao” problems in the last month with Banco do Brasil. No slip printed, polite obfuscation at the agency. My bank is still sitting on two of the cases. I wonder what is behind this failure, could it be some kind of scam? I have been drawing money frequently at Banco do Brasil ATM’s for the last four years without any such problem.

  • #227795

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Allentonian] I have reached the same conclusion: HSBC is definitely safer now. I have had three “sem comunicacao” problems in the last month with Banco do Brasil. No slip printed, polite obfuscation at the agency. My bank is still sitting on two of the cases. I wonder what is behind this failure, could it be some kind of scam? I have been drawing money frequently at Banco do Brasil ATM’s for the last four years without any such problem. [/QUOTE]
    I still have a number of these outstanding. According to my bank in Canada it can take up to 55 days to resolve. Apparently that’s the amount of time Banco do brasil has to respond to an inquiry. I am also using HSBC when possible. However there is only one HSBC machine near me and it frequently doesn’t work. In the same location there are eight B do B machines.
    I find it extremely annoying that the B do B machines do not print an error slip.

  • #228808

    machdonald
    Member

    Having used the same BdoB ATM here in POA on at least a weekly basis for the past 6 years without ever having a problem, I’d been watching the above posts with compassion but a certain smug distance, until today, when the same thing happened to me.
    It’s not so much the hassle of having to chase up with your bank for a reversal of the charge, but the constant fear, each time in the future that you insert your card, that it will all happen again.
    Years ago, when I lived in Nigeria, the phrase “WAWA” (West Africa Wins Again) was popular with expatriates. These days I’m thinking more along the lines of BraWA!

  • #228810

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=CanadenseEmPOA]
    It’s not so much the hassle of having to chase up with your bank for a reversal of the charge, but the constant fear, each time in the future that you insert your card, that it will all happen again.
    [/QUOTE]
    The hassle is waiting for the charge to be reversed. I see you’re also Canadian. I have been waiting about 40 days for both TD and BMO to do something about my most recent no-money withdrawals. They both tell me it can take 55 days. And whenever this happens they fail to refund the ATM fee. It used to be much faster–two weeks at most.

  • #228956

    agri2001
    Participant

    Well I guess I have to join the crowd of getting fooked by the BB ATM machines.
    Just came back from the BB bank, where I usually use my card, but this time I got the no communication message but no cash. I tried on two different machines with the same result.
    Came home and checked my account and sure enough they debited my account for one of the non-transactions.
    Just wondering if there`s anything that can be done, or who do you complain to? I tried to explain to the dumb ass for a manager on what happened and he kept insisting that my foreign card would not work on their machines..Duh!!
    Called my bank right away and they told me that within two working days the money should reappear in my account, if not to call back and they will investigate.
    The BB bank is a fraud by doing what many here have attested to.
    agri20012012-12-07 11:33:25

  • #228957

    Luca
    Member

    I am surprised that not all 3 failed transactions were debited on your account.

  • #228958

    agri2001
    Participant

    Dont know yet, the day is not over with.
    That f**king bank sucks and I am frigging livid right about now

  • #228959

    Luca
    Member

    They would have gotten debited immediately. The first time this happened to me back in September (after 15 years of coming to Brazil without ever having any type of problem), I tried in 5 different machines and ended up being down 5K on the day.

  • #228960

    agri2001
    Participant

    Were you able to get the money back from your bank? and how long did it take?

  • #228961

    Luca
    Member

    Yes. All of it. Took about 10 days or so. I still have one from 30 days ago that I need to call about. If you dont call, it will never get reverted. Just a hassle because of the international phone calls.

  • #229076

    ACaljr
    Member

    I gave BdB another chance but this F****** bank is fraudulent with ATMs!!!!! This happened to me again today (already 5X) here in SP. Why can’t they just fix this F****** problem. I am so stupid for giving this bank another try.

  • #229077

    mauriciocnm
    Member

    This got to be fraud! it doesn’t make sense that a machine is programmed to display the “sem comunicacao” message without also printing a slip, unless… the programmer, who obviously is an insider, doesn’t want a paper trail to be available. I’ll be back home next week and will put some pressure on my bank, not only to give me credit for the money improperly debited, but also to pursue this whole thing as FRAUD. What is remarkable is the non-reaction of Brazilians when they are told about this problem. Typically they will tell you about some other outrageous thing that happened to them or to someone they know when dealing with BB. What a bank, what a country!!!

  • #229082

    rebalina
    Member

    now worried i’ve had the same problem :/
    just tried a BdB ATM in Salvador. I got a “operacao finalizada” right after my PIN/second swipe…. will have to check my bank to see if I’ve been charged. I hope the machine just thinks I pressed cancel

  • #229098

    agri2001
    Participant

    I`ll tell you what I did. I phoned my bank, as stated previously, but I also sent them an email over my concern.
    But what I think what we should do, as individuals, is also send an email to your banks and also a link to this forum discussion concerning the ATM fraud that is obviously taking place.

  • #229099

    toolio
    Participant

    If you are a Facebook member go here and post your concern in Portuguese. Some of us, including me, have already done this. The more the better.
    https://www.facebook.com/bancodobrasil

  • #229101

    beach bum
    Member

    This happened to me the other day. I needed to take out cash to pay for a car repair. I’ve NEVER ever had a single issue with BoB. I tried 3 times with 2 different cards and got the same error message as you all. Now I’m paranoid! They took the money from my account too! $166. I ended up using a 24hours afterwards because I was desperate for cash and now know that my bank reimburses the fees so in the future I will just use them. I will phone my bank monday. I don’t think it’s necessarily fraud, it’s probably just an error in their system.

  • #229102

    beach bum
    Member

    Btw thanks for alerting this to me, I probably might not have noticed the false charge for awhile. All beware of BoB in this case!

  • #229103

    beach bum
    Member

    And good luck at BoB, my sister and law went down town the other day and had 60 people in line in front of her senha. Even if you to get to talk to a real person if you aren’t a client of their’s they won’t give a crap.

  • #229104

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=gringonovo] And good luck at BoB, my sister and law went down town the other day and had 60 people in line in front of her senha. Even if you to get to talk to a real person if you aren’t a client of their’s they won’t give a crap.[/QUOTE]
    Massive lines at the BdoB Salvador Airport a few days ago. I happily sold dollars at 2.12 and avoided the ATMs. What is going on at Banco do Brasil? A many years ago they where among the best.

  • #229107

    agri2001
    Participant

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] [QUOTE=gringonovo] And good luck at BoB, my sister and law went down town the other day and had 60 people in line in front of her senha. Even if you to get to talk to a real person if you aren’t a client of their’s they won’t give a crap.[/QUOTE]
    Massive lines at the BdoB Salvador Airport a few days ago. I happily sold dollars at 2.12 and avoided the ATMs. What is going on at Banco do Brasil?A many years ago they where among the best.[/QUOTE]
    Read the quotes and listen to us crying..LOL

  • #229460

    toolio
    Participant

    I am absolutely livid. I just called my bank in Canada after not hearing anything for 50 days about two outstanding withdrawals from Banco do Brasil ATMs in which i got the dreaded “sem comunicacao” error. (My bank had warned me it could take 55 days). B do B claims the machine dispensed the money in one case and they still have not responded to the other.
    So I am now out at least $500 CDN (R$1,000), and perhaps $1,000 (R$2,000). This has turned into outright fraud on the part of Banco do Brasil. Of course, I have no paper slip because B do B doesn’t print those when this error occurs. I do have my wife and stepson who witnessed this both times. (They remember them well, because I tend to get vocal when this happens). They saw the “sem comunicacao” message on the screen.
    This is thoroughly disgusting.
    toolio2012-12-12 13:50:55

  • #229463

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=toolio]
    I am absolutely livid. I just called my bank in Canada after not hearing anything for 50 days about two outstanding withdrawals from Banco do Brasil ATMs in which i got the dreaded “sem comunicacao” error. (My bank had warned me it could take 55 days).¬† B do B claims the machine dispensed the money in one case and they still have not responded to the other.So I am now out at least $500 CDN, and perhaps $1,000. This has turned into outright fraud on the part of Banco do Brasil. Of course, I have no paper slip because B do B doesn’t print those when this error occurs. I do have my wife and stepson who witnessed this both times. (They remember them well, because I tend to get vocal when this happens). They saw the “sem comunicacao” message on the screen.This is thoroughly disgusting.
    [/QUOTE]
    Horrible. THis stuff pisses me off and is another example of how Brazil constantly finds ways to screw people.
    Some programmer is sitting on tens of millions of desviado saques eletronicos at Banco do Brasil. He is so good at it the Bank claims that the cash was paid by the machine. “Sem Comunicacao” really means, we are shiftiing your money to our BdB smart programmer’s account so he can buy a dozen more homes on Angra, cigarette boats, and throw massive parties with the best drinks/garotas, money can buy as he sees his online account jump $500,000 a day.
    So what is the best way to bring money in without the ATM? HSBC just agreed to pay a fine of over a billion dollars for laundering Mexican drug lord money.
    Somebody said the Citi ATMs work fine. I’ve been changing cash at the airport lately buy eventually I’ll need to use an ATM.GreatBallsoFire2012-12-12 13:52:44

  • #229470

    I’m convinced that if one has a phone capable of doing so, a video should be taken of the screen when an ATM is being used in Brasil! At HSBC on Monday, I attempted to make a withdrawal from an HSBC-US account. Some sort of error message I’d never seen popped up for a brief second, and then the screen went blank! No receipt printed. No money. I thought, oh fook, here comes a headache.
    Went to use another machine, then that time it didn’t spit out any money, but printed a receipt which said “Excedeu Limite Diario Para Saque”. I then assumed that the first transaction indeed debited me, even though no money or receipt was received. Definite headache coming, which Toolio is unfortunately having right now.
    But yesterday, I got on-line to check the account. It showed a withdrawal I’d made on Saturday posted on Monday, and then nothing else. I’m assuming then the ‘limit exceeded’ message was about the Saturday withdrawal. Yet that means the ‘daily’ limit extends 48hrs later?!? Confused
    I’ve written HSBC for clarification. A response should bereceived in 48 hours….

  • #229471

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Gringo.Floripa]
    I’m convinced that if one has a phone capable of doing so, a video should be taken of the screen when an ATM is being used in Brasil! At HSBC on Monday, I attempted to make a withdrawal from an HSBC-US account. Some sort of error message I’d never seen popped up for a brief second, and then the screen went blank! No receipt printed. No money. I thought, oh fook, here comes a headache.
    Went to use another machine, then that time it didn’t spit out any money, but printed a receipt which said “Excedeu Limite Diario Para Saque”. I then assumed that the first transaction indeed debited me, even though no money or receipt was received. Definite headache coming, which Toolio is unfortunately having right now.
    But yesterday, I got on-line to check the account. It showed a withdrawal I’d made on Saturday posted on Monday, and then nothing else. I’m assuming then the ‘limit exceeded’ message was about the Saturday withdrawal. Yet that means the ‘daily’ limit extends 48hrs later?!? Confused
    I’ve written HSBC for clarification. A response should bereceived in 48 hours….
    [/QUOTE]
    Funny you should mention the “Excedeu Limite Diario Para Saque” error. I’ve been using HSBC machines whenever I can and for an entire week I received that error at my local machines (a bank of five at a shopping mall). I had not made any previous withdrawals, either at HSBC or anywhere else. Unlike Banco do Brasil, I didn’t get ripped off; the machine just wouldn’t let me take out any money. Then a couple of weeks later the same thing happened for a few more days.
    I think it is a glitch in their system. Or perhaps it is their version of “sem cominicacao,” only sem ripoff.
    One thing I have noticed: HSBC machines will not let you use the same card twice on the same day, even if your limit allows it or if you have two accounts linked to that card.
    toolio2012-12-12 14:08:11

  • #229588

    beach bum
    Member

    After sending a written complaint form to my bank they refunded my money within 48 hours as a provisional return. I hope it stays that way and I will be very careful with BoB atm’s again. I think I will actually use the 24hour atms now that I know that my bank refunds the full R$12 fee!

  • #229589

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=gringonovo]After sending a written complaint form to my bank they refunded my money within 48 hours as a provisional return. I hope it stays that way and I will be very careful with BoB atm’s again. I think I will actually use the 24hour atms now that I know that my bank refunds the full R$12 fee![/QUOTE]
    My bank certainly does not refund the 24horas fees. How does your bank do that, if I might ask? And in what country is your bank located? I’d like to persuade my bank to do the same.

  • #229595

    beach bum
    Member

    USA, but only in the northeast, I think they eat the fees since I have premiere accounts and several of them. I was shocked to see the 24horas fees refunded!

  • #229602

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    I believe Charles Schwab does this. This is reportedly the best (lowest fees) ATM account you can get for international use.

  • #229895

    Luca
    Member

    This has happened to me with my three accounts and in all cases the fees were reversed. I still have one failed transaction that hasn’t been corrected yet. If they don’t give me my money back, i’ll raise hell. Already looking for a lawyer.tbird2012-12-15 07:43:22

  • #232123

    agri2001
    Participant

    [QUOTE=tbird]This has happened to me with my three accounts and in all cases the fees were reversed. I still have one failed transaction that hasn’t been corrected yet. If they don’t give me my money back, i’ll raise hell. Already looking for a lawyer.[/QUOTE]
    Finally got the money in my account that BB nailed me on.
    talked to my bank manager here in Holland and he told me that they are having a very high number of complaints coming from Brazil but couldn’t say what the problem may be.
    Now I am afraid on using my card when I get back at the BB atm machines.
    Anyone have any new info on this scam??

  • #232124

    [QUOTE=agri2001]Now I am afraid on using my card when I get back at the BB atm machines. Anyone have any new info on this scam??[/QUOTE]
    Someone recently created a new thread, from Germany I think, complaining about the same hassle/scam. Sounds like it continues to be a problem, and BdB best avoided, not only for ATM transactions, but truly, any transaction. IMO, BdB SUCKS!
    I use Bradesco and HSBC for foreign withdrawals. There was a time, a few years ago, that I had similar problems with HSBC, but the exterior account for those withdrawals was also HSBC, so easy to resolve. Never had this issue, ever, with Bradesco.
    Gringo.Floripa2013-01-08 17:46:17

  • #232141

    miguel
    Participant

    Have used a (US-based) Citi account inside Citi ATMs here for a couple decades without problems. They are though, once again, closing ATMs outside the most major of cities so finding a nearby ATM could be a problem. Don’t open a Citi local account as that won’t help with your international money transfers and are pretty worthless from what I gather.

  • #232150

    toolio
    Participant

    The only new info I have on the scam is that the B do B after two months credited my Canadian bank account for one outstanding ATM withdrawal in Salvador for which I received no money but refused to pay me for another. So I am out R$1000.
    I’ve gone as far as I can go with this, although my Canadian bank manager is working on something else. It seems unlikely that I will ever see this money. My bank also says that there have been an increasing number of complaints from Brazil.
    In my opinion this is disgusting. What kind of bank regularly rips off people?

  • #232152

    Luca
    Member

    I left a complaint here
    https://www.facebook.com/maisbancodobrasil
    Dont think it will change anything but at least they replied wanting to know in which bank branches the problems ocurred.

  • #232156

    [QUOTE=tbird]I left a complaint here
    https://www.facebook.com/maisbancodobrasil%5B/QUOTE%5D
    With FB’s emphasis only on the happy and positive (WHY, for example, is there not a Dislike/Thumbs-down button?!), to leave negative comments on the FB page of a business is indeed a good way to get someone’s attention!
    Some friends here in Brasil recently bought a car, rather ordered what they wanted, paid for it, and then delivery kept being delayed, delayed, delayed. They then started posting negative comments on the dealer’s FB page, and soon had someone from the dealer calling them, in an attempt to quickly resolve the situation (and requesting the negative comments be removed).
    Most Brasilian companies are still clueless as to the power of word-of-mouth advertising, be it good or bad, but they’re learning fast!
    @toolio: start posting about your rip-off on the page Tbird mentioned, and see what happens….
    Gringo.Floripa2013-01-09 06:10:30

  • #232159

    missycrissy
    Member

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] [QUOTE=toolio]
    I am absolutely livid. I just called my bank in Canada after not hearing anything for 50 days about two outstanding withdrawals from Banco do Brasil ATMs in which i got the dreaded “sem comunicacao” error. (My bank had warned me it could take 55 days). B do B claims the machine dispensed the money in one case and they still have not responded to the other.So I am now out at least $500 CDN, and perhaps $1,000. This has turned into outright fraud on the part of Banco do Brasil. Of course, I have no paper slip because B do B doesn’t print those when this error occurs. I do have my wife and stepson who witnessed this both times. (They remember them well, because I tend to get vocal when this happens). They saw the “sem comunicacao” message on the screen.This is thoroughly disgusting.
    [/QUOTE]
    Horrible. THis stuff pisses me off and is another example of how Brazil constantly finds ways to screw people.
    Some programmeris sitting on tens of millions of desviado saques eletronicos at Banco do Brasil. He is so goodat it the Bank claims that the cash was paid by the machine. “Sem Comunicacao” really means, we are shiftiing your money to our BdB smart programmer’s account so he can buy a dozen more homes on Angra, cigarette boats, and throw massive parties with the best drinks/garotas, money can buy as he sees his online account jump $500,000 a day.
    So what is the best way to bring money in without the ATM? HSBC just agreed to pay a fine of over a billion dollars for laundering Mexican drug lord money.
    Somebody said the Citi ATMs work fine. I’ve been changing cash at the airport lately buy eventually I’ll need to use an ATM.[/QUOTE]
    This is one possibility. The other possibility is that they have some stupid program with bugs that makes problems. Nevertheless I do not use their atms anymore.

  • #232210

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=tbird]I left a complaint here
    https://www.facebook.com/maisbancodobrasil
    Dont think it will change anything but at least they replied wanting to know in which bank branches the problems ocurred.[/QUOTE]
    I have done the same in the past. I was contacted with the same request. I provided numerous locations where the problems occurred. They are still taking place in those locations, months later.
    It is not a problem with individual locations. It is a system-wide problem. I am in Salvador, and where the “sem comunicação” error has happened to be numerous times in numerous branches and shopping malls. It has happened to others in other cities.
    Of course, I try not to use B do B machines these days. Unfortunately, they’re easier to come across than HSBC machines, so when in need of quick cash I often have to play the B do B game of Russian Roulette.
    As I and others have pointed out, this problem has worsened exponentially in recent months. B do B machines used to be reasonably reliable. It is now made worse, at least in my case, by the bank’s refusal to refund at least one of its scam debits to my foreign bank account.

  • #232262

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    I got the dreaded “sem comunicação” error in Brasilia this morning at one of those 24HR machines in a gas station.I went into cardiac arrest until I got back to my netbook and saw that my account had not been crediteddebited.
    You guys are making me paranoid!
    >>>YES toolio, Debited.
    jacare2013-01-09 19:30:24

  • #232264

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=jacare] my account had not been credited.![/QUOTE]
    I trust you mean debited. You are one of the chosen few. B do B has been kind to you toolio2013-01-09 16:49:40

  • #232277

    [QUOTE=toolio] [QUOTE=jacare] my account had not been credited.![/QUOTE]
    I trust you mean debited. You are one of the chosen few. B do B has been kind to you [/QUOTE]
    No. Banco 24 Hours has been kind to him and me as well never had my account debited erroneously at a 24 Hour machine often found at petrol stations.B of B I avoid like the plague until somebody says they sorted their problem. Why play Russian Roulett when you can use Bradesco,HSBC,Citi Bank or Banco 24 Hours.
    Spend your money on gas or a taxi rather then losse R$1000 and fight to get it back(maybe never).

  • #232280

    For the fee Banco 24 Horas charges for withdrawals, they shouldn’t fook with you at all! LOL

  • #232296

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=Gringo.Floripa]
    For the fee Banco 24 Horas charges for withdrawals, they shouldn’t fook with you at all! LOL[/QUOTE]
    I wouldn’t use them normally but in Brasilia everything is a bit expensive. R$12 to save me a four block hike was a better deal than the four burgers, onion rings and cokes for R$130.
    But I get your point …

  • #232329

    beach bum
    Member

    My bank reimburses all foreign atm fees which was a nice surprise when I used the 24h atm mentioned and was so pissed off over BoB’s error that I went with the $12 reais fee. Needless to say the statement credit for $6 dollars was really nice. One of the few nice perks my bank has. I have a feeling it’s pretty standard if you have a good enough account(s). Check with your bank.

  • #232341

    toolio
    Participant

    There was a time, at least here in Salvador, when Banco24horas machines were horribly unreliable. Perhaps things have changed. Now they’re horribly expensive, and my bank unfortunately does not refund foreign ATM fees.

  • #233367

    rebalina
    Member

    do banks definitely reimburse 24 fees? from what i’ve seen, 24 horas incorporates the charge into your withdrawal. If you withdraw 100 reais, it’ll show up on your bank statement as withdrawing 112 reais. So how is your bank to know there’s a fee to refund?galego2013-01-18 15:30:37

  • #233383

    cantak
    Member

    My bank says 45 working days. I guess that will be in 2 weeks time. I have two pending transaction like that. Its so messed up. And now all of a sudden Bradesco does not accept my bank card anymore. Same with certain HSBC branch. But I still ahve it with an HSBC in cabo frio. All the banks in rio das ostras wont accept my card anymore like they blocked me.

  • #233389

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=virtalist2000]And now all of a sudden Bradesco does not accept my bank card anymore. Same with certain HSBC branch. But I still ahve it with an HSBC in cabo frio. All the banks in rio das ostras wont accept my card anymore like they blocked me.
    [/QUOTE]
    Don’t give up on your cards. I’ve had this happen to me from time to time. Never seems to be any good reason for it. Eventually the machines start accepting the cards again. You might also find that to be the case.

  • #233424

    cantak
    Member

    Yeah but how does that happen? Certain bank accepts you then stops accepting you? Or does it mean they stop taking international transactinof or a while. Then starts again? That sucks.. what state are you? I’m in RJ (The lagoa regions cabo/rio das ostras/macae/buzios)

  • #233441

    agri2001
    Participant

    [QUOTE=virtalist2000]Yeah but how does that happen? Certain bank accepts you then stops accepting you? Or does it mean they stop taking international transactinof or a while. Then starts again? That sucks.. what state are you? I’m in RJ (The lagoa regions cabo/rio das ostras/macae/buzios)[/QUOTE]
    You’re not alone virtalist, as of April 2012, all the banks (Bradesco, HSBC, BofB) that used to accept my ATM cards, stopped accepting them.
    Then all of a sudden only BofB was accepting them but only for a withdraw of B$700 each time, all the others negativo.
    Then last December I was able to use them with HSBC, but only at some branches and only for B$500 each time.
    I was using BofB for some time then the golpe where they kept my money.
    There is no rhyme or reason here in Brazil and everywhere I asked nobody can give me an answer.

  • #233444

    cantak
    Member

    My card has a reasonably good daily limit of 3k reais. Upto now HSBC or whichever bank I go to allows me to take out 1k per day from each bank incase I need a lot i.e month end when I wanna pay bills. But all of a sudden they accept/decline at will. Only BdB works well for me every time. But since it started keeping my money in December I had to stay with HSBC/24horas. 24horas charges me 12 x 2. So Prefer HSBC atms at the bank.
    Another question what bank offers the best exchange rates?.

  • #234773

    Hey guys,
    When this same situation happened to me almost two months ago, I quickly found this website and reading through other peoples’ experiences helped me with my situation so I wanted to post back my story for anyone else with the same problem.
    Like everyone else, I’ve been taking out 1000 reals at a time to minimize withdrawl fees and because BdB is like the McDonalds of banks here (it’s everywhere!) I normally went there to take the money. One friday however, when I tried taking money I got the “sem communicacao” error and no money came out. I asked the security guard and he told me “oh ya, it happens from time to time, try again later”. I then proceeded to try several machines and it still didn’t work. I tried again the next day and the next after without success. A few days later when I checked my online bank statement, four of these many transactions managed to debit my account.
    Obviously I was furious. I went immediately to the BdB branch and talked to the people working there, just to hear “we can’t do anything, your bank has to contact us and request the information for the transactions, it usually takes a few days”. For about a month I was then in contact with fully incompetent people at my bank’s technical support service. Each time I called I had to re-explain the situation and each time they basically had no idea what I was talking about and basically assured me they were “trying to contact BdB” while in fact they were doing a whole lot of nothing.
    Finally, I got into contact with the woman at my actual branch who was responsible for my account. She told me that I had to send a signed letter to them explaining the situation and listing the problematic transactions. She notified me when she received the letter and that she passed it onto the responsible people. A few days after that I was notified that my money was returned. All four transactions were returned to my account.
    It took almost two month, mainly due to technical support incompetence, but I got my money back and I can relax now. In the meantime, I set up a Western Union FX account and now I send money directly to my gf’s bank account here in Brazil and this way I avoid using the machines with my international debit card all together. By the way this WU FX is something like Paypal, but for some reason Paypal hasn’t been working for me so well these days (many weird bugs), so I decided to try something new. I have to say so far I’m quite happy. It’s a bit annoying to register for (lot’s of steps), and it’s kind of slow (takes almost 2 weeks for her to receive money), but I can send any sum of money for a flat fee of 22$ with reasonable exchange rates.
    By the way I also sent this story to a popular news paper here in Brazil (with the link of this site), but I haven’t heard anything from them. I guess they aren’t interested.
    I hope all of you guys who have fallen into this trap get your money back as well.
    Cheers!

  • #240525

    I had the same problems reported here with respect to having money withdrawn from my account (BoA, US) after a failed cash machine attempt, in December and January, with the same “communications error” message. It happened at both BdoB and HSBC. BofA in the States immediately credited the money back to my account (provisionally) and said it would be 90 days before their investigation was completed. So far, I have heard nothing. Meantime, they reset my account and I was able to withdraw money from CitiBank that same day.
    I quit using HSBC in Brasil about a year ago when I noticed they were not providing the same commercial exchange rate as BdoB. Since then, BdoB has been working out perfect, until……..
    Last week, a new problem arose. Despite not having used any of the three US BofA cards I have (all separate accounts) I received the message, “daily withdrawal limit exceeded” at both BdoB and HSBC. Those two banks must use the same clearing service, or the cash machines are operated by the same outfit, as they are posting the exact same message, “daily withdrawal limit exceeded”. However, with this message no money was withdrawn (at least not so far). So, off to CitiBank (which has the highest fees I have been charged in Brasil for cash withdrawals) where I was able to withdraw funds from each of my three BofA accounts that same day, no issues whatsoever.
    When I called BofA about the “daily limit exceeded” messages from BdoB and HSBC machines, they told me there was no information in their system whatsoever about my having attempted to withdraw funds in Brasil, so it appears to me that the “daily limit exceeded” message is just a message displayed to indicate the BdoB and HSBC cash machine systems are not functioning. They have been this way now for just over a week here in Rio.
    If you bank with BofA in the US, their direct number for the card security department (they accept overseas collect calls) is 602 597-2395. If you have a VOIP you can call toll free, 877 833-5617. I have had my card cloned three times here, once BofA refused to reimburse my account but being an attorney I was able to convince them to do so promptly. With respect to the cash machine issues, they have always immediately reimbursed and reset my account, which under new Federal law in the US they must do.
    Trust me, going to the bank here in Brasil to complain is a waste of time, as many here have pointed out from experience. Instead, immediately contact your bank in the US over the phone, they should give you a reference number for your complaint. Keep that number, so that if there are issues down the road you can refer to it.
    And, when you are in Brasil, CHECK YOUR FOREIGN ACCOUNTS ONLINE FREQUENTLY. Cards are cloned here at banks, restaurants (be wary if the waiter leaves your table with your card, if so follow him/her), and just about anywhere a card can be used. Just this past Carnaval, a friend had US $7,000 charged on his card during a one week period, his bank did not shut down his account until he was back in Sweden and the charges were still occurring in Brasil, but by then the damage was done.

  • #240526

    In my experience, only BdoB provides close to the true commercial exchange rate, as of the close of markets the prior day. In other words, if you withdraw cash on Tuesday, you get the Monday closing rate. I watch the exchange, and if the Dollar is falling I go to the bank that day, if the Dollar is rising I will put off going to the bank for so long as it continues to rise. Over time it saves a fair amount.
    HSBC used to provide a true exchange rate, I quit using HSBC when I noticed my cash withdrawals there cost me more than at BdoB at the same exchange rate, and checking their FX rate against BdoB I noticed HSBC cheating the rate.
    CitiBank charges R12, plus my bank, BofA then adds a $5.00 fee plus a foreign exchange fee of 1%. Neither HSBC nor BdoB charge the R12.
    These fees may also be different depending on the type of account you have, where you maintain your account.

  • #240527

    [QUOTE=gringonovo]My bank reimburses all foreign atm fees which was a nice surprise when I used the 24h atm mentioned and was so pissed off over BoB’s error that I went with the $12 reais fee. Needless to say the statement credit for $6 dollars was really nice. One of the few nice perks my bank has. I have a feeling it’s pretty standard if you have a good enough account(s). Check with your bank.[/QUOTE]
    Which bank do you use?

  • #240533

    [QUOTE=Gringo.Floripa]
    I’m convinced that if one has a phone capable of doing so, a video should be taken of the screen when an ATM is being used in Brasil! At HSBC on Monday, I attempted to make a withdrawal from an HSBC-US account. Some sort of error message I’d never seen popped up for a brief second, and then the screen went blank! No receipt printed. No money. I thought, oh fook, here comes a headache.
    Went to use another machine, then that time it didn’t spit out any money, but printed a receipt which said “Excedeu Limite Diario Para Saque”. I then assumed that the first transaction indeed debited me, even though no money or receipt was received. Definite headache coming, which Toolio is unfortunately having right now.
    But yesterday, I got on-line to check the account. It showed a withdrawal I’d made on Saturday posted on Monday, and then nothing else. I’m assuming then the ‘limit exceeded’ message was about the Saturday withdrawal. Yet that means the ‘daily’ limit extends 48hrs later?!? Confused
    I’ve written HSBC for clarification. A response should bereceived in 48 hours….
    [/QUOTE]
    This is an EXCELLENT idea. Video every cash withdrawal transaction. If you receive the funds, then simply delete the video. If you get ripped off, you have video evidence of everything that happened and you can email that to your bank. Be certain to video the cash drawer to show the cash never appeared.
    If you want to take it a step further, complain to ProCon, which is the Brasilian consumer protection agency. I have heard of good and not so good results from ProCon complaints, but no harm in trying. If nobody complains, then surely nothing will happen. I suspect this “scam” is applied only to users of foreign bank ATM/Debit/Credit cards, and not locals. Locals would complain to ProCon,

  • #240704

    Luca
    Member

    I managed to get out R$1000 today at BdoB. The limit at HSBC is still set at R$300. I got money out at the ATM at the mall; perhaps they just haven’t gotten around to programming those machines yet. It’s still R$300 at the main BdoB branch in town.

  • #240719

    NYesq
    Member

    [QUOTE=tbird] I managed to get out R$1000 today at BdoB. The limit at HSBC is still set at R$300. I got money out at the ATM at the mall; perhaps they just haven’t gotten around to programming those machines yet. It’s still R$300 at the main BdoB branch in town.
    [/QUOTE]
    Good to know. I suppose one day we will find out the cause.
    I spoke with BdB the other day and they said there was no limit at that branch although I was able to extract only R$300. They said it was my card. I then went to Bradesco and got the full amount. Of course, I returned to BdB and told them. They were at a lose for words and said they would investigate. We will see.

  • #240792

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    I can never get money from Bradesco machines, I will have to try BdB, HSBC said I could take R$1000 and I was ready to celebrate and post on the thread until I got the receipt that said I had reached my withdraw limit.

  • #240800

    NYesq
    Member

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy] I can never get money from Bradesco machines, I will have to try BdB, HSBC said I could take R$1000 and I was ready to celebrate and post on the thread until I got the receipt that said I had reached my withdraw limit. [/QUOTE]
    The entire ordeal is like playing the slots in Vegas without the fun. I am not liking this.

  • #240805

    agri2001
    Participant
    Below a sequence of answers I received from the various emails that I sent.
    In short nobody knows anything, they are very adept at passing the proverbial buck.

    Since 2003, EMBRATUR is solely responsible for the promotion, marketing and support marketing of destinations, tourism services and products Brazilian international market. All matters relating thereto assigned prior to registration of companies, enterprises devoted to the classification of tourism activities and the exercise of oversight function, were transferred to the Ministry of Tourism.The e-mail contact the Ministry is: ouvidoria@turismo.gov.brSincerely,Communication Advisor / Embratur

    Prezado Sr. *******,

    Agradecemos seu contato com a Ouvidoria do Ministério do Turismo.

    Informamos que este assunto não é da competência do Ministério do Turismo. Sugerimos que entre em contato com o Banco Central do Brasil ‚Äì Bacen, site http://www.bc.gov.br.

    Atenciosamente,

    Alynne Godois Brito
    Descrição:%20Descrição:%20Descrição:%20Logo%20Ministério%20do%20Turismo

    Ouvidoria

    Ministério do Turismo
    (+55 (61) 2023-8003

    *ouvidoria@turismo.gov.br

    Anexo Shopping ID ‚Äì SCN Quadra 06, Bloco A, 12¬∫ andar ‚Äì Brasília/DF.

    CEP: 70.016-900


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Such policies are freely adopted by the financial institutions, with no interference from this Banco central.

    Regards,

    Atenciosamente,

    http://www.bcb.gov.br/img/bc_marca.gif
    http://www.bcb.gov.br/img/transp.gif
    http://www.bcb.gov.br/img/transp.gifJosé Fernandes Bacelar – jfb

    http://www.bcb.gov.br/img/transp.gifDepartamento de Atendimento Institucional
    http://www.bcb.gov.br/img/transp.gifDivisão de Atendimento ao Cidadão
    http://www.bcb.gov.br/img/transp.gifTel.: 0800 979 2345


  • #240810

    I just noticed something interesting. While the CitiBank ATM clearly states there is an R$12 fee, I am not being charged that amount by my bank, BofA. Instead, I am charged a flat US$5.00, plus a 1% “currency fee”. Unless this R$12 fee shows up later, this means it costs the same to use the CitiBank ATM’s, which recently are the only ones which actually disburse cash on a regular/reliable basis. It is a 15 minute walk either direction to the nearest CitiBank, but that is a lot better than a half hour or more on the phone with BofA in the US explaining that the ATM never disbursed cash despite what the transaction record says.
    Banking, in general, has recently been and continues to be nothing more than a massive criminal enterprise. Expecting anything else is simply being naive. Banks could easily adopt security measures (such as password protecting credit cards) and save a fortune in fraud losses, but they don’t and they won’t because they make more money NOT stopping fraud.
    I have a Brasilian Amex card, it is password protected. I lost it one night, and someone tried using it to pay an R$300 bar tab, but it was declined because they did not have the password. While US cards do require a password for cash withdrawals, thieves here have mastered the art of using mini-cameras which video the ATM keypad and record you entering your PIN. With a video of your card, and you entering the PIN, they then create a new card which is used to drain your account. Always shield your card with your hand when you insert your card into an ATM, and always shield your hand when you enter the PIN. Since I began doing that about 5 years ago, I have not had a fraud loss issue using my cards at ATM’s.

  • #242072

    So much for CitiBank being the only remaining source for R$1,000 cash machine withdrawals. I just returned from their branch on Nossa Senhora in Copacabana, and the new limit is R$600, per card, per day. Same fees, though!

  • #242074

    I have been told by BofA (in the US) that I can walk up to a teller at a Brasilian bank and withdraw the daily limit on each of my debit cards. Has anyone here done that? Are the fees higher or lower? Or does the teller simply stare at you as if you just stepped off a spacecraft from Uranus?
    Going to a bank teller is obviously a more time consuming thing to do as opposed to a cash machine, but if R$1,000 cash withdrawals from the ATM’s here are now a thing of the past, it may be the only practical option left for those such as myself who refuse to go through the PITA of opening a Brasilian bank account. I just had a friend open (or he thinks he opened) an account at CitiBank. However, he was then told the account could only be “activated” by a transfer of at least $5,000 from ANOTHER BRASILIAN BANK ACCOUNT! Oh, sure, that other account you forgot you had and never used!

  • #242075

    Has anybody dared to test the Banco do Brasil machines recently to see if they have solved the problem?
    Bradesco giving out R$ 800 for no extra fee worked alright for me recently. More than one withdrawal possible within limits of your account.

  • #242077

    NYesq
    Member

    [QUOTE=Bert Ernste] Has anybody dared to test the Banco do Brasil machines recently to see if they have solved the problem?
    Bradesco giving out R$ 800 for no extra fee worked alright for me recently. More than one withdrawal possible within limits of your account.
    [/QUOTE]
    Yesterday I went to BdB in Curitiba. No luck there either. Still 300. Then HSBC and since I already got the 300 limit from BdB, it gave me the response Daily Limit Exceeded. Ended up going to Bradesco and got their limit of 800.Rob Allen2013-03-21 14:55:51

  • #242084

    [QUOTE=Bert Ernste]Has anybody dared to test the Banco do Brasil machines recently to see if they have solved the problem?
    Bradesco giving out R$ 800 for no extra fee worked alright for me recently. More than one withdrawal possible within limits of your account.
    [/QUOTE]
    If “the problem” you refer to is charging your account for a cash withdrawal but giving you no cash, I have not had that happen for several weeks now. However, I still get the “daily limit” message, so I go elsewhere. Now looking like Bradesco is the only remaining bank in Brasil which will disburse more than R$600 from an ATM. Even in Cyprus, with a run on their banks ongoing at this moment, ATM’s are disbursing Eu260 per card/account, per day. Here, BdB & HSBC give out only about half that much!
    I am going to try using the teller option. I have very little faith in what BofA in the US tells me, but certainly worth a try. I did try a teller cash withdrawal once a few years ago at HSBC and I got the “are you from another planet” look along with a polite “no”.

  • #242087

    Thanks.
    I should have been more clear, I was indeed referring tot the sem comunicação message at the end of trying to get cash from the Banco do Brasil ATM which meant that no money would come out, while quite often the amount was deducted from your bank account nevertheless.
    Good to know that it seems to be a thing of the past, or could it be that few people have tried and the few have been lucky, as the problem never was a constant one?
    Ridiculously low those maximum withdrawals of R$ 300 and such.

  • #242102

    [QUOTE=Bert Ernste]Thanks.
    I should have been more clear, I was indeed referring tot the sem comunicação message at the end of trying to get cash from the Banco do Brasil ATM which meant that no money would come out, while quite often the amount was deducted from your bank account nevertheless.
    Good to know that it seems to be a thing of the past, or could it be that few people have tried and the few have been lucky, as the problem never was a constant one?
    Ridiculously low those maximum withdrawals of R$ 300 and such. [/QUOTE]
    Ridiculous indeed, I have managed to live in Brasil for 9 years now without opening a bank account here. But, at US $150 max per cash withdrawal, I would need ten separate US accounts just to withdraw rent in one trip to the bank, and the fees would be absurd. I opened an HSBC account in the US because they told me the HSBC in Brasil would give me up to US $1,000 per day (in local currency) by “teller transaction”, but the HSBC here in Brasil said they don’t do that. There has to be a better way……

  • #242110

    NYesq
    Member

    [QUOTE=PTRio]
    [QUOTE=Bert Ernste]Thanks.
    I should have been more clear, I was indeed referring tot the sem comunicação message at the end of trying to get cash from the Banco do Brasil ATM which meant that no money would come out, while quite often the amount was deducted from your bank account nevertheless.
    Good to know that it seems to be a thing of the past, or could it be that few people have tried and the few have been lucky, as the problem never was a constant one?
    Ridiculously low those maximum withdrawals of R$ 300 and such. [/QUOTE]Ridiculous indeed, I have managed to live in Brasil for 9 years now without opening a bank account here. But, at US $150 max per cash withdrawal, I would need ten separate US accounts just to withdraw rent in one trip to the bank, and the fees would be absurd. I opened an HSBC account in the US because they told me the HSBC in Brasil would give me up to US $1,000 per day (in local currency) by “teller transaction”, but the HSBC here in Brasil said they don’t do that. There has to be a better way……[/QUOTE]
    You’re not alone in all of this. This is causing immense problems with us. PLEASE, if anyone can find a solution or an alternative, let us know. My bank tells me I have the qualifications to withdraw $4000 from any ATM at any time so this is purely a Brazilian trap.Rob Allen2013-03-21 17:50:29

  • #242119

    This afternoon, I hit both HSBC and Bradesco. HSBC now has signs taped to all their ATMS stating that International cards, even HSBC ones, are restricted to R$300 per transaction!
    At Bradesco, I used two International cards, Visa and Plus network, and was able to pull out R$800 per transaction. Bradesco ATMs have a R$1000 option, but not highlighted yet.
    The HSBC thing is a real bummer, and no one there seems to have any info ‘why’….

  • #242180

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    This sucks, for years I took R$1000 from HSBC ATMs, I can’t seem to get money from Bradesco machines

  • #242182

    Has anyone used the 24 Hour machines lately? I noticed about a month ago my Cards are no longer recognized. Using Bradesco with success for 800 per day. Lets hope they don’t follow this trend of lower maximums.

  • #242184

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    Not sure why I can never get a Bradesco machine to work…

  • #242185

    Bradesco and other banks let you do more withdrawals a day, as long as you stay within the limits of the bank account involved. The R$ 800 maximum of Bradesco is per withdrawal.
    Bradesco could not read my card for quite a while, but recently I used Bradesco again with success.

  • #242190

    Luca
    Member

    I managed to get out 1000 at a BdoB ATM machine at the mall about 10 days ago. Really weird. Definitely 300 at the branches.
    Have you tried at the mall? Who knows, perhaps some bureaucrat decided that ATMs at malls should still do 1000.

  • #242191

    @bert, are you saying that you have been able to withdraw more then R800 in one day from Bradesco by making multiple withdrawals providing the card has a higher limit? If so how much were you able to withdraw?

  • #242195

    [quote]@Bert, are you saying that you have been able to withdraw more then R800 in one day from Bradesco by making multiple withdrawals providing the card has a higher limit? If so how much were you able to withdraw?[/quote]
    That is correct. I usually take out R$ 1200 or 1250 (800 + 400/450) but it depends on exchange rates, as my European bank has a limit of € 500 per day for cash withdrawals.
    The same applies to other banks ATMs, as the foreign bank’s limit for cash withdrawals is the deciding factor.

  • #242200

    [QUOTE=Bert Ernste][quote]@Bert, are you saying that you have been able to withdraw more then R800 in one day from Bradesco by making multiple withdrawals providing the card has a higher limit? If so how much were you able to withdraw?[/quote]
    That is correct. I usually take out R$ 1200 or 1250 (800 + 400/450) but it depends on exchange rates, as my European bank has a limit of € 500 per day for cash withdrawals.
    The same applies to other banks ATMs, as the foreign bank’s limit for cash withdrawals is the deciding factor.[/QUOTE]
    That is good news Bert I was not aware of this. In the past using B of B I was unable to get more then R1000 per day even when using different locations.
    Thanks for the response.

  • #242202

    agri2001
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Bert Ernste] [quote]@Bert, are you saying that you have been able to withdraw more then R800 in one day from Bradesco by making multiple withdrawals providing the card has a higher limit? If so how much were you able to withdraw?[/quote]
    That is correct. I usually take out R$ 1200 or 1250 (800 + 400/450) but it depends on exchange rates, as my European bank has a limit of € 500 per day for cash withdrawals.
    The same applies to other banks ATMs, as the foreign bank’s limit for cash withdrawals is the deciding factor.[/QUOTE]
    I have tried with my Dutch cards, took out B$700 ( which was the most that the machine would give ) and then tried to take out another B$300 and I get a message that I acceded my limit, that was with BofB

  • #242204

    Could it be that you have a low limit on cash withdrawals? Sometimes banks lower the limits without telling the customer.

  • #242206

    ExpatBrazil
    Participant

    Last week withdrew R$800 from Bradesco ATM – max allowable. Went to HSBC this morning, where I have been going for years, to withdraw R$1,000 which was noted as the max allowable…same as always, but this time got the “Daily Limited Exceeded” and the operation was terminated. I checked my account; no money had been withdrawn. Tried Citbank last week (never go there)to test. Max was R$350, but with option to request a higher amount, which I did – R$1,000. Error said the transaction could not be completed. This is on a Banco 24 horas atm. BOA emailed me saying my card had been blocked. Called got it unblocked. This is a super novella. What a way to run a country!!

  • #242281

    trebroN
    Member

    I have to admit that I maintain a Citi Deadaccount also, based in the US – for the sole purpose of using a nearby ATM here in Sao Paulo (I don’t have a Citi account here). They do give you the commercial exchange rate (or very close to it) and charge a fee of 3% that will appear later on your statement.
    Last week I made several withdrawals of R$500 to 800 and then suddenly found that the limit had been apparently reduced to R$300. I called the US number printed on the ATM card and found out that their security algorithm had flagged my transactions as suspicious and that I needed to answer a few basic questions (card number and some personal stuff) to verify my identity, and that the normal limit was $1000 (US) per day. Tried the ATM today and it seems fine again.
    I don’t know what the deal is if you have a Citi account here, but from my dealings with these folks it’s clear that they consider their banking operation as just a means of roping people into investing in the Citigroup financial empire – recent beneficiary of a $46 B bailout.

  • #242363

    I posted in different yet similar thread on Thurs that I’d gone to both HSBC and Bradesco on that same day. HSBC now has signs taped to all of their machines stating that International cards, even HSBC ones, are now limited to a R$300 limit per transaction.
    The limit your bank in the exterior permits is irrelevant. No one at HSBC here in Brasil has any info as to WHY this extremely low limit has been implemented. When I comtacted HSBC in the US about this, they simply said to speak to someone here in Brasil.
    At Bradesco, I was able to use two different US debit cards, and withdraw R$800 per transaction. The Bradesco ATMs now have a R$1000 amount, but the option has not yet been activated.
    Will be interesting to see how this plays out come the Copa.

  • #242711

    I am in Vitoria and my work around at the moment is to use 3 different international cards at HSBC which gets me $900 for each ATM visit. The HSBC card has no fees, the others are from a credit union with total fee less than percent on each. I also tried to find out why and the only thing I hear is combating fraud. Haven’t tried any other banks. My response to them was that taking a blanket approach to solve a fraud problem was not very good customer service. Also pointed out that there should be ways to further identify a person who wanted to do an ATM transaction, as I had to provide them with pieces of info about myself, and the bank account just to send them a message in their bank mail!
    I know HSBC has been pushing the use of a token for their Brazil accounts, and with that one can withdraw up to $R2,000 from a Brazil account. But so far the token can’t be associated with the HSBC international card. And the rate one gets using their Global transfer sucks. Paying the fees at the ATM still results in a better net exchange rate.

  • #242731

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=qfrodo]I also tried to find out why and the only thing I hear is combating fraud. [/QUOTE]
    Fraud likely discovered by a Banco Central employee reading gringoes forum posts encouraging others to join the ATM bonanza. A Brazilian would not likely post about his illegal activities.

  • #242739

    NYesq
    Member

    [QUOTE=jacare]
    [QUOTE=qfrodo]I also tried to find out why and the only thing I hear is combating fraud. [/QUOTE]Fraud likely discovered by a Banco Central employee reading gringoes forum posts encouraging others to join the ATM bonanza. A Brazilian would not likely post about his illegal activities.[/QUOTE]
    Since when is withdrawing your money from an ATM illegal?

  • #242780

    [QUOTE=jacare][QUOTE=qfrodo]I also tried to find out why and the only thing I hear is combating fraud. [/QUOTE]
    Fraud likely discovered by a Banco Central employee reading gringoes forum posts encouraging others to join the ATM bonanza. A Brazilian would not likely post about his illegal activities.
    [/QUOTE]
    If the “ATM bonanza” you refer to is the one this topic is about, where thieves use mini-cameras and phoney card swipers to record card and PIN numbers of unsuspecting bank customers, create cloned cards, and then go on a cash withdrawal and spending spree, that has been going on in Brasil far longer than this forum has existed. It has been an epidemic for at least 8 years. The response by Brasilian authorities has been far less than impressive. Yes, a few cloners have been apprehended, some by pure accident (phoney card swiper falling off, for example) but when their crime is practiced at ATM’s in the lobby of the actual banks they are robbing I would think perhaps a security camera, a guard or some other means of preventing this crime would be more appropriate than shutting their own customers off from their bank accounts. How about a shield over the keypad? That is how I have avoided having my cards cloned for the past 5 years, I simply shield my hand when I input the PIN number. Simple as that.
    I had my card cloned three times during a one year period, and the last place I suspected it had happened was in the lobby of a bank! I quit using my card at restaurants, grocery stores, shopping malls, you name it. But, it had been happening at the HSBC in Ipanema where I made cash withdrawals and I learned that from an article in the O Globo about a German tourist who had the thieves phoney card swiper come off in his hand while swiping his card for a cash withdrawal! He reported it to police, thankfully, and I read about it in the paper. However, I never lost a dime as my bank reimbursed all the funds which had been fraudulently withdrawn.
    The only “bonanza” going on is the one enjoyed by the thieves due to the failure of law enforcement and the banks in Brasil to take action against it. Now, they shoot themselves in their collective feet by punishing their customers and not the criminals. I strongly suspect some bank employees have been involved, knowing there were phoney card swipers or mini cameras being used and receiving a percentage of the stolen funds.
    My withdrawal limits were exceeded several times when my cards were cloned, my bank could never answer my questions as to how that could happen. So, in my experience, lower withdrawal limits punish only legitimate card holders and not the criminals. A silly way to try to stop this epidemic.

  • #242786

    Luca
    Member

    I managed to withdraw R$ 1000 at the BdoB terminal at the mall again yesterday. But the R$ 300 limit still in place everywhere else.

  • #242791

    [QUOTE=tbird]I managed to withdraw R$ 1000 at the BdoB terminal at the mall again yesterday. But the R$ 300 limit still in place everywhere else.[/QUOTE]
    Next trip my wife makes to the mall I am sending my fleet of ATM cards with her. With the exchange rate now back hovering around 2.0 and a little higher, the upper limit set by the Mantegamanipulator, it is a good time to stock up on Reis.

  • #242792

    Luca
    Member

    Hmmm. Wife. Mall. Fleet of ATM cards. If your wife doesn’t come home with 16 bags of designer clothes, I’ll become a chimney sweep.

  • #242806

    [QUOTE=tbird]Hmmm. Wife. Mall. Fleet of ATM cards. If your wife doesn’t come home with 16 bags of designer clothes, I’ll become a chimney sweep. [/QUOTE]
    Good point!

  • #242814

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=Rob Allen] [QUOTE=jacare]
    [QUOTE=qfrodo]I also tried to find out why and the only thing I hear is combating fraud. [/QUOTE]Fraud likely discovered by a Banco Central employee reading gringoes forum posts encouraging others to join the ATM bonanza. A Brazilian would not likely post about his illegal activities.[/QUOTE] Since when is withdrawing your money from an ATM illegal?[/QUOTE]
    When you are a resident of Brazil and using the ATM as a ‘cambio’. Are your ATM transactions reported to Banco Central or the RF? Haven’t you noticed all the absurd paperwork asssociated with a legal cambio transaction?
    You are not in Kansas anymore!

  • #242818

    [QUOTE=jacare]
    When you are a resident of Brazil and using the ATM as a ‘cambio’. Are your ATM transactions reported to Banco Central or the RF? Haven’t you noticed all the absurd paperwork asssociated with a legal cambio transaction?[/QUOTE]
    The banking system in Brasil does indeed have many security features that other countries do not (at least more than the EUA), but are you inferring ‘Gator that BACEN has the capability to monitor, filter, then determine/assign an ATM withdrawal to a specific resident, simply by the name on the account/card???

  • #242855

    “Haven’t you noticed all the absurd paperwork asssociated with a legal cambio transaction?”
    No, frankly, I have not noticed ANY paperwork associated with a legal cambio transaction. In fact, in Rio, cambios are now delivering Reis to your door, no paperwork whatsoever. These are cambios located within tourist agencies, which if I understand correctly, are the only legal cambios. My last personal cambio transaction was about two years ago, all I had to do was count the money! These transactions involve less than R$10,000 each, if that makes any difference.

  • #242896

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=Gringo.Floripa]… but are you inferring ‘Gator that BACEN has the capability to monitor, filter, then determine/assign an ATM withdrawal to a specific resident, simply by the name on the account/card???[/QUOTE]
    No they don’t, but that is what makes the ATM transactions grey area. BACEN records all capital inflows and outflows and to bring money into Brazil without reporting it to BACEN is against regulations. Furthermore on the Receita Federal side, remittances from the exterior are taxable. So if there is no paper trail from a declared asset outside of Brazil it can look like tax evasion. So to the government, it is an area likely to be explored by money launders … That’s my take on it. I haven’t been able to find anything in the Brazilian Press about it.

  • #242898

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=PTRio]No, frankly, I have not noticed ANY paperwork associated with a legal cambio transaction. In fact, in Rio, cambios are now delivering Reis to your door, no paperwork whatsoever. These are cambios located within tourist agencies, which if I understand correctly, are the only legal cambios. My last personal cambio transaction was about two years ago, all I had to do was count the money! These transactions involve less than R$10,000 each, if that makes any difference.[/QUOTE]
    Ha. Ha. Just because a guy delivers your reis on a moto to your door doesn’t mean it’s legal. After all there are lots of things you can get delivered. And I realize that things loosened a bit with the dream that Brazil was joining the real world. But it hasn’t got there yet. You still need a CPF to get a sim chip or often to buy a simple appliance. The only cambio in our town has a two foot square grate through which you do your transaction. No documents required. It is on a main street, not hidden, but somehow I doubt this place adheres completely to BACEN regulations.

  • #242916

    [QUOTE=jacare][QUOTE=PTRio]No, frankly, I have not noticed ANY paperwork associated with a legal cambio transaction. In fact, in Rio, cambios are now delivering Reis to your door, no paperwork whatsoever. These are cambios located within tourist agencies, which if I understand correctly, are the only legal cambios. My last personal cambio transaction was about two years ago, all I had to do was count the money! These transactions involve less than R$10,000 each, if that makes any difference.[/QUOTE]
    Ha. Ha. Just because a guy delivers your reis on a moto to your door doesn’t mean it’s legal. After all there are lots of things you can get delivered. And I realize that things loosened a bit with the dream that Brazil was joining the real world. But it hasn’t got there yet. You still need a CPF to get a sim chip or often to buy a simple appliance. The only cambio in our town has a two foot square grate through which you do your transaction. No documents required. It is on a main street, not hidden, but somehow I doubt this place adheres completely to BACEN regulations.
    [/QUOTE]
    I have changed money in tourist agencies numerous times, and never provided a CPF . I only mentioned the home delivery option because it is safer and more convenient. Better they come to the door than be going back and forth with a pocket full of cash, right? Not my place to complain if they don’t ask for a CPF, does the law place that responsibility on me? If so, should I force them to take my number? I am not sure that would be such a good idea. I left the ‘real world’ and live in Brasil voluntarily. You can have the real world, I like it fine here. Just give me my R$1000 at the ATM and I am all OK!

  • #242918

    ClaudePeebles
    Participant

    I’ve always used a doleiro, he does home delivery too…..with a 9 mil under his belt.
    No CPF required and superior exchange rates.

  • #242945

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    How do you guys have that much US cash, I earn a salary in dollars, but the money isn’t physically with me so I am stuck with ATM transfers (which is getting suckier lately) or bank transfers (which are expensive)

  • #243216

    ExpatBrazil
    Participant

    Withdrew R$1,000 at Extra supermarket on BdB ATM today.

  • #243248

    [QUOTE=ExpatBrazil]Withdrew R$1,000 at Extra supermarket on BdB ATM today. [/QUOTE]
    Parabens! Which one? Where? Had you been denied R$1k there before?
    It strikes me as bizarre that in Brasil, ATM withdrawals are limited to R$300/600/800, yet in Cyprus where there is a full blown financial/banking crisis and seizure of depositor funds currently underway, the limit at ATM’s is Eu100.

  • #243303

    NYesq
    Member

    I am so confused about this withdrawal limit. From the BdB ATM, where I have been denied more than 300 a day for weeks, I was able to make 2 withdrawals of 300 each yesterday. I didn’t try another because I didn’t want to push my luck.
    Maybe, just maybe, it is returning to normal.
    At Bradesco, I was able to get one withdrawal of 800. The second try was denied, but that is ok.

  • #243306

    [QUOTE=Rob Allen]I am so confused about this withdrawal limit. From the BdB ATM, where I have been denied more than 300 a day for weeks, I was able to make 2 withdrawals of 300 each yesterday. I didn’t try another because I didn’t want to push my luck.
    Maybe, just maybe, it is returning to normal.
    At Bradesco, I was able to get one withdrawal of 800. The second try was denied, but that is ok.[/QUOTE]
    You are referring to two R$300 withdrawals on the same day using the same card/account? That is interesting. I have been trying to get to the RioSul Mall the past two days, haven’t yet made it but maybe I will try a couple nearby BdB and HSBC ATM’s first to see if anything has changed and post the results.
    It is indeed a very confusing and totally unexplained situation from the bank standpoint. Total lack of customer relations and/or communication. But then, that really isn’t anything new.

  • #243420

    ExpatBrazil
    Participant

    Goiania.
    Haven’t used BdB since this ATM problem began, but decided to give them a try as others had said BdB was allowing R$1,000 withdraws again.
    Usually use HSBC, but no longer due to the R$300 limit. Used Bradesco 10 days ago. Withdrew R$800, which was the max allowed.

  • #243421

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=ExpatBrazil] Goiania.
    Haven’t used BdB since this ATM problem began, but decided to give them a try as others had said BdB was allowing R$1,000 withdraws again.
    Usually use HSBC, but no longer due to the R$300 limit. Used Bradesco 10 days ago. Withdrew R$800, which was the max allowed.[/QUOTE]
    I guess B do B realized that a lower limit meant they would no longer be able to rip people off for r$1000. What’s the point if they can only get r$300? I’ve been out of Brazil since this new lower limit started. Returning in a week or so and looking forward to seeing what a mess has been made. I certainly hope I can find a higher limit machine, since ATMs are essential to my survival in Brazil

  • #243899

    Zackery
    Participant

    I had sent an e mail complaint to the government a few weeks ago, making the point that restrictive daily limits is bad for tourism. I did get an acknowledgement from the government, saying they would forward my complaint to the appropriate parties . Today I received this from the Bank of Brasil. My issue was actually not specifically with them since I have not actually being playing Russian roulette with their machines. (although more recently many of you have reported more reliability in actually getting cash along with the debit from your accounts….what an innovative concept on the part of a bank. ) At any rate this is their spin:
    Dear Mr. Zack,
    We would like to clarify that we don’t have the mentioned
    limitation of R$ 300.00 in our ATMs. Our daily limits for withdrawals are R$
    1,000.00 for microchip cards and R$ 500.00 for no microchip cards. In the
    specific case of failure in the use of debit cards of Canadian financial
    institutions, all occurrences previously handled by the Banco do Brasil had
    the justification in the fact that all the unsuccessful transactions ocurred
    with microchip cards that made no data exchange with our readers or not met
    the standard required by the flags, like Visa or Mastercard. Once we
    provided this information, we reaffirm our commitment to the best customer
    service and we remain at your disposal for any further clarifications that
    may be necessary. Sincerely, Customer Service Banco do Brasil
    I must say though I am impressed with the fact that the govt. and one bank at least acknowledged a complaint . The banks still suck though.

  • #243927

    toolio
    Participant

    Thanks for posting this. I am also amazed that you received a reply. Is this your translation or did they reply in English?
    I can refute their assertion that all the erroneous transactions were with Canadian debit cards that have chips. I have debit cards from two Canadian banks–one with a chip and one without. I have had the dreaded “sem comunicacao” error using both with Banco do Brasil machines.

  • #243941

    Zackery
    Participant

    [QUOTE=toolio] Thanks for posting this. I am also amazed that you received a reply. Is this your translation or did they reply in English?I can refute their assertion that all the erroneous transactions were with Canadian debit cards that have chips. I have debit cards from two Canadian banks–one with a chip and one without. I have had the dreaded “sem comunicacao” error using both with Banco do Brasil machines.
    [/QUOTE]
    Their words, cut and past.
    I find my credit union chip card and my TD card do not work in Bradesco, cannot read chip card. I am thinking there may be some issue with some Cdn chip cards but mine, and my HSBC card, do work at HSBC , Citi, and 24 hora. Will try Banco do Brasil .

  • #244389

    I withdrew R$800 from Bradesco yesterday, using a US non-chip debit card. Exchange rate was exactly as postet here http://www4.bcb.gov.br/pec/taxas/ingl/PtaxRPesq.asp?idpai=QUOTATIONS for the prior day.
    Have not tried BdB again, but will do so today.

  • #244398

    I am pleased to report that BdB ATM’s are now providing up to R$1,000. I used two different BofA US debit cards, no chip, and withdrew R$1k using each. Whew, the thought of having to make 3x the trips per month to the ATM to pay rent and utilities was not a happy one.

  • #244405

    ukbr
    Member

    Thank’s for the update, good to know.
    Bit off topic but I once was given some counterfeit money from a ATM in Mexcio City on a Sunday.

  • #244409

    NYesq
    Member

    [QUOTE=PTRio] I am pleased to report that BdB ATM’s are now providing up to R$1,000. I used two different BofA US debit cards, no chip, and withdrew R$1k using each. Whew, the thought of having to make 3x the trips per month to the ATM to pay rent and utilities was not a happy one. [/QUOTE]
    Excellent! Thank you PTRio. And thanks to Zack222 who took the time and effort to send an email. Yesterday, I managed to get 2 more withdrawals of 300 from BdB…hesitant to try the full 1000 amount. Next time I will.

  • #244410

    Rob, I know what you mean. Having had R$1,000 disappear from my account three times, without ever having received the money, is not very reassuring. And, how do you ever prove a negative, in other words, that you did not receive the money? The process requires reporting to your home bank, then waiting 90 days for them to accept or reject your claim. If they reject it, you then must take it up the ladder in the bank. What a pain. I still have a month to wait to find out of my R$3k in claims have been approved. Meantime, they reimbursed the funds but could pull them at any moment. No explanations, no updates, nothing. Modern banksterism.

  • #244529

    gringodr
    Member

    happened to me
    the amount hasnt come out just pending..
    i phoned my bank and they cancelled the pending amounts as they could see i had tried to get money out after that about another 50 times…
    are you in RIo??
    The BdB opposite lojas americanas in ipanema always does this and this is where it happened so i never use now…
    getting cash out here is a daily headache… whatever ATM you use…

  • #244557

    [QUOTE=orioo]happened to me
    the amount hasnt come out just pending..
    i phoned my bank and they cancelled the pending amounts as they could see i had tried to get money out after that about another 50 times…
    are you in RIo??
    The BdB opposite lojas americanas in ipanema always does this and this is where it happened so i never use now…
    getting cash out here is a daily headache… whatever ATM you use…[/QUOTE]
    I am in Copacabana, lived in Ipanema for 6 years, was priced out. Had my first card cloning experiences at the HSBC on Piraja and Henrique Dumont, next to the Ponto Frio. There was a card cloner and mini-camera at the ATM in the bank lobby. Three times it happened until I figured it out, and that only happened because I read an article in the Globo about a tourist who had the cloner device fall off in his hand there, and he reported it to the tourist police. My bank lost about US$9k total. They never could explain how it is a thief was able to make cash withdrawals exceeding my daily limit, and once they claimed I had made the charges after reporting my card number stolen. I had to work my way up the ladder at the bank to finally be reimbursed.
    The whole money transfer thing is truly one of the biggest negatives to xpat life here. Likely anywhere though, I suspect. If it isn’t cloner thieves then its bankster thieves, or saidinha thieves, pickpockets or stick a knife/gun in your face thieves. Then you have satellite and cable TV companies and the list goes on. Still, on a lovely morning like today, I honestly forget all the negatives here and am thankful to no longer be dealing with those miserable wet Winter months without sunshine back in Seattle.
    PTRio2013-04-06 10:24:54

  • #244578

    gringodr
    Member

    [QUOTE=PTRio]
    . Had my first card cloning experiences at the HSBC on Piraja and Henrique Dumont, next to the Ponto Frio. There was a card cloner and mini-camera at the ATM in the bank lobby.
    [/QUOTE]
    haha me too, in my first 2 weeks…never use HSBC now…
    HSBC were really good those they phone me cos someone tried to get out more than my daily limit – refunded within 15 mins of the phone call….
    yeh its so nice this morning…
    off to the beach!orioo2013-04-06 11:50:42

  • #244720

    baxtercatuk
    Member

    yes, happened the same sacanagem with me, a few times. This with banco 24 horas, and banco do brasil.
    The way of making extra money on gringos ;-)
    my complains didn’t helped… they blamed the banks in USA and Europe for this. funny.
    Alex

  • #244745

    gringodr
    Member

    Those banco 24 horas should never be used…

  • #245335

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    Yesterday I tried two different Bradescos, two BdB, a Citibank and Santander before getting to HSBC, they rejected 1000 and 800 and only after trying 300 per this thread was I able to get money. What a pain in the butt. My bank flagged me and when I called to explain, they said there is a lot of fraud in Brazil and banks are lowering limits. Going to make my life a pain in the neck to only be able to pull R$300 at a time.

  • #245345

    Interesting. Yesterday I was able to pull R$800 from Bradesco using a US debit card, but HSBC still has a limit of R$300 for foreign cards, even if the card is also HSBC-US. The ATM still has an option to withdraw R$1.000, but that’s only if the card is issued in Brasil. To date, no one at HSBC has an explanation why the limit on foreign cards has been reduced by 66%! I think the ‘fraud’ excuse is a bunch of BS.

  • #245352

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy]Yesterday I tried two different Bradescos, two BdB, a Citibank and Santander before getting to HSBC, they rejected 1000 and 800 and only after trying 300 per this thread was I able to get money. What a pain in the butt. My bank flagged me and when I called to explain, they said there is a lot of fraud in Brazil and banks are lowering limits. Going to make my life a pain in the neck to only be able to pull R$300 at a time. [/QUOTE]
    Only R$300 from BdB? Where was this, if you don’t mind saying? I was able to withdraw R$1,000 each using two non-chip, US BofA debit cards at the BdB on NS Copacabana, just past Sa Ferreira last Friday, the 5th. That location has actual security guards in the lobby. Who knows. Perhaps the withdrawal limit has been increased only at “secure” locations? This is certainly a Brasilian way to manage ATM machines, no information provided to anyone.
    I have never had any success at Santander, but it has been a year since I tried one of their locations. CitiBank is now at R$600, based on my experience two or three weeks ago. Bradesco has been allowing R$800 withdrawals all along, per the posts here and I withdrew R$800 using a Bradesco ATM two weeks ago.

  • #245353

    [QUOTE=Gringo.Floripa]
    Interesting. Yesterday I was able to pull R$800 from Bradesco using a US debit card, but HSBC still has a limit of R$300 for foreign cards, even if the card is also HSBC-US. The ATM still has an option to withdraw R$1.000, but that’s only if the card is issued in Brasil. To date, no one at HSBC has an explanation why the limit on foreign cards has been reduced by 66%! I think the ‘fraud’ excuse is a bunch of BS.
    [/QUOTE]
    I agree the fraud excuse is BS. While there is certainly significant card fraud in Brasil, the most common form appears to be obtaining card numbers and PIN’s by using mini-cameras to record the PIN being entered and fake card swipers which fit over the ATM’s swiper. By simply providing a cover for the keypad, so that when entering the PIN it cannot be seen from above or from the side, the bank could prevent the mini-camera from recording a card holders PIN. Since having my card cloned, three times back in 2008 in a bank lobby ATM, I now cover my hand when entering the PIN by using a sheet of paper or my other hand. I haven’t had a problem since then. The banks could easily install a cover on each keypad for far less than they lose per hour to card thieves. Yet, they won’t/don’t do it. Perhaps there is some money to be made by designing such a device.

  • #245354

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    I have never been able to get money from a Bradesco or BdB ATM, even 3-4 years ago I was never able to. Not sure why, but they don’t seem to like my Schwab card, has always given me an error message, just like yesterday. I always relied on HSBC as it was the only one that took my card. Sucks now that I am prisoner to their R$300

  • #245361

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy]I have never been able to get money from a Bradesco or BdB ATM, even 3-4 years ago I was never able to. Not sure why, but they don’t seem to like my Schwab card, has always given me an error message, just like yesterday. I always relied on HSBC as it was the only one that took my card. Sucks now that I am prisoner to their R$300[/QUOTE]
    Make sure the ATM has the little colorful sticker on it with the VISA/MC/AMEX/etc logos on it. Only those machines disburse cash on foreign cards. Some bank lobby machines have the logos, others don’t.

  • #245362

    ukbr
    Member

    See my post in How to get funds into Brazil?thread, perhaps an option for you.

  • #245363

    toolio
    Participant

    Actually, what you need to look for are the Cirrus and Plus logos for withdrawals from bank accounts. Those are the international networks.Plus is associated with Visa, Cirrus with MasterCard.

  • #245365

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    they always have the logos, no idea why it doesn’t work

  • #245366

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy]I have never been able to get money from a Bradesco or BdB ATM, even 3-4 years ago I was never able to. Not sure why, but they don’t seem to like my Schwab card, has always given me an error message, just like yesterday. I always relied on HSBC as it was the only one that took my card. Sucks now that I am prisoner to their R$300[/QUOTE]
    I hadn’t tried Bradesco in years until recently. In the past, I had no luck there but last week I had no problem with an R$800 cash withdrawal. They have an interesting palm print system for Brasilian account holders, that can be very frustrating, but my withdrawal did not require a palm print.

  • #245627

    toolio
    Participant

    After following this thread from abroad for about six weeks, I returned home to Salvador this week. On the weekend I tried my four Canadian bank cards (two debit, two credit–TD Bank and BMO) at HSBC and Banco do Brasil machines in Salvador’s biggest mall. There is a row of about 8 HSBC machines there and about 16 B do B machines, many of them allowing international transactions.
    All withdrawal attempts of any amount on all cards but one were not permitted, not even r$300. HSBC machines produced a message telling me my daily withdrawal limit was exceeded (which in Canada is $3,000/r$6000) on debit cards. On credit cards they said “invalid card” on second card reading. B do B machines said “transaction not completed, please try again.” The only success I had was on my VISA at a B do B machine, which allowed me a R$1000 withdrawal. These are cards I have been using for years to successfully withdraw money (notwithstanding the B do B “sem comunicao” ripoff a few times, but that is another matter).
    So for me, this is worse than I feared. I simply cannot make any withdrawals on my bank debit cards, after 13 years of doing this regularly. And only one credit card is allowing withdrawals. FYI all cards are chip cards.
    This is truly pathetic.
    (I should also add that I know all cards are in perfect working order because I used them in Canada the week before.)
    toolio2013-04-15 08:40:39

  • #245631

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=toolio]
    After following this thread from abroad for about six weeks, I returned home to Salvador this week. On the weekend I tried my four Canadian bank cards (two debit, two credit–TD Bank and BMO) at HSBC and Banco do Brasil machines in Salvador’s biggest mall. There is a row of about 8 HSBC machines there and about 16 B do B machines, many of them allowing international transactions.All withdrawal attempts of any amount on all cards but one were not permitted, not even r$300. HSBC machines produced a message telling me my daily withdrawal limit was exceeded (which in Canada is $3,000/r$6000) on debit cards. On credit cards they said “invalid card” on second card reading. B do B machines said “transaction not completed, please try again.” The only success I had was on my VISA at a B do B machine, which allowed me a R$1000 withdrawal. These are cards I have been using for years to successfully withdraw money (notwithstanding the B do B “sem comunicao” ripoff a few times, but that is another matter).So for me, this is worse than I feared. I simply cannot make any withdrawals on my bank debit cards, after 13 years of doing this regularly. And only one credit card is allowing withdrawals. FYI all cards are chip cards.This is truly pathetic.¬†(I should also add that I know all cards are in perfect working order because I used them in Canada the week before.)
    [/QUOTE]
    I have also had a card rejected by one machine at BdB! Then accepted at the next machine at BdB. Bradesco as well. I think the card readers might be malfunctioning.

  • #245632

    Patigell
    Member

    This is really bizarre news. I’ve been like Toolio living off the ole credit cards for years. I don’t buy the fraud things as well. What could possibly be the reason for this?

  • #245635

    agri2001
    Participant

    Toolio I would go to another part of the city and try your cards. I have had similar problems with my EU cards, started in April 2012 till now, and many times the machines are empty or they are programmed not to accept the foreign cards.
    But as GBF said you have to try different machines or different locations.

  • #245637

    toolio
    Participant

    I did try many different machines, although they were at the same mall. This week I will try others. I’ll also try Bradesco, since some people have reported success in withdrawing R$800.

  • #245638

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    After trying a million more ATM machines, I finally found one machine at one Bradesco that lets me pull R$800. Definitely a relief that I will not have to settle for R$300 at a time from HSBC, but i will miss my R$1000 from HSBC.

  • #245640

    @toolio I got 1000 today from the B of B in Itapua. I did take it in 2 shots of 500 but I believe I could have gotten it in one try however I am still cautious.

  • #245642

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Segundavida]@Toolio I got 1000 today from the B of B in Itapua. I did take it in 2 shots of 500 but I believe I could have gotten it in one try however I am still cautious.[/QUOTE]
    That’s good to know. Do your cards have chips, or are they the old-style non-chip cards? What country are your banks located in? Some people say it makes a difference,

  • #245647

    [QUOTE=toolio][QUOTE=Segundavida]@Toolio I got 1000 today from the B of B in Itapua. I did take it in 2 shots of 500 but I believe I could have gotten it in one try however I am still cautious.[/QUOTE]
    That’s good to know. Do your cards have chips, or are they the old-style non-chip cards? What country are your banks located in? Some people say it makes a difference,
    [/QUOTE]
    My US cards only have a magnetic strip, no chip. My Visa debit card consistently works at Bradesco, and I can withdraw R$800, like others have stated. Their machines show a R$1,000 option, but it’s not activated yet.
    I have been able to use same card at BdB, but it’s my last choice, because of the debited-from-account-but-no-cash-received ‘scam’. The BdB is directly across the street from Bradesco, so I only try it when the Bradesco ATM tells me the only notes available are R$10 denomination. Eighty bills in my wallet?! No thanks.
    HSBC is still limiting foreign cards to R$300, obviously an internal decision, but who knows why (trulywhy)???
    Have never had issues with using my US credit card (for purchases, not cash advances), but I occasionally have to contact my bank and request them to extend/renew the ‘fraud suppression mode’ for that card, so that it’s not rejected.

  • #245657

    [QUOTE=toolio][QUOTE=Segundavida]@Toolio I got 1000 today from the B of B in Itapua. I did take it in 2 shots of 500 but I believe I could have gotten it in one try however I am still cautious.[/QUOTE]
    That’s good to know. Do your cards have chips, or are they the old-style non-chip cards? What country are your banks located in? Some people say it makes a difference,
    [/QUOTE]
    My card is a Visa Debit Card with no chip from a US Bank. Also works at Bradesco for 800 a pop. Good Luck

  • #245661

    toolio
    Participant

    I just spent some time driving around Salvador with my (unfortunately) chip cards. I can get nothing–not even r$300 from any HSBC or B do B machine I tried–today and yesterday. The only exception is my Visa chip card. Bank cards and Mastercard won’t work. However, I was able to successfully withdraw r$800 from a Bradesco machine at an agencia using a bank card. I previously tried a Bradesco machine at a mall, which would give me my account balance but would not let me withdraw funds.
    This is lunacy, although I’m glad to know that for the moment I can get money from some Bradesco machines.
    When I first came to Brasil about 13 years ago I was able to take out r$1600 a pop from ATMs of some Spanish bank (I forget which one it was) that no longer operates in Brasil. Things certainly have gone downhill. If course that r$1600 is now equivalent to about r$3000, thanks to inflation.

  • #245663

    celso
    Member

    Be sure to contact your various banks in Canada and inform them that you are in the Salvador area.
    Last month some of my cards were blocked because the US Bank/Card security froze the cards. They thought the Brazil cash withdrawals might be identity theft.
    I had to call the banks and talk to security to unblock them. The security department asked me to let them know the next time I’ll be in Brazil.

  • #245665

    Could it be that time of day is a factor here? I never visit an ATM after dark, and the nearby BdB bank lobby ATM closes at 10 pm I believe, but perhaps a time has been set earlier than closing after which no withdrawals of more than R$300 are permitted? Seems a bit sophisticated for Brasil, but??? On the other hand, I was denied for weeks at BdB and HSBC on any amount over R$300, and that was during business hours on week days.
    Reading through all these posts leaves the impression something has recently changed, and R$1,000 withdrawals are now permitted but not for everyone. Chip cards do not seem to be a factor, none of mine have chips and I recently withdrew R$1,000 from BdB on each of two different US debit cards at around 11:00 am at a BdB bank lobby ATM.
    So many possible variables, mall machines, time of day, Country where card issued, chip/no chip, sunny/cloudy outside, or just plain random Brasilian who knows what? This game of ATM roulette is very tiresome. The exercise walking from bank to bank is a benefit I would gladly forgo.

  • #245666

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=Gringo.Floripa]HSBC is still limiting foreign cards to R$300, obviously an internal decision, but who knows why (trulywhy)???[/QUOTE]
    Maybe it is in reaction to HSBC’s money laundering problems in Argentina. I wouldn’t believe anything HSBC in Brazil says.

  • #245667

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]Be sure to contact your various banks in Canada and inform them that you are in the Salvador area.
    Last month some of my cards were blocked because the US Bank/Card security froze the cards. They thought the Brazil cash withdrawals might be identity theft.
    I had to call the banks and talk to security to unblock them. The security department asked me to let them know the next time I’ll be in Brazil.[/QUOTE]
    Thanks for the advice. But I’m okay because my official address on the bank accounts is my Brasilian address. I’m a resident of Brasil and it’s better for (Canadian) tax purposes to not have any Canadian addresses linked to my Canadian bank accounts or credit cards. Amex, however, won’t let me do that so I keep it under a Canadian address and it is constantly being blocked when I use it in Brasil. So I’ve pretty much stopped using it here.

  • #245671

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]Be sure to contact your various banks in Canada and inform them that you are in the Salvador area.
    Last month some of my cards were blocked because the US Bank/Card security froze the cards. They thought the Brazil cash withdrawals might be identity theft.
    I had to call the banks and talk to security to unblock them. The security department asked me to let them know the next time I’ll be in Brazil.[/QUOTE]
    That is very important. BofA now allows 6 month travel notices, formerly three was the maximum. But even with a travel notice in place, if a card is tried without success three times it is shut off based on a fraud alert program and you will need to call your bank and verify several recent purchases and tell your bank you are outside the Country where the card was issued.
    I often place internet orders online with Amazon, stuff shipped to my address in the US to bring to Brasil, and then use my card the same day in Brasil. Bingo!, card blocked based on Fraud Alert software. I have to call and tell them I placed both the Amazon order and withdrew cash in Brasil.
    So, best to call your bank every few months to verify your cards are “open” and not blocked from use. Just one attempt in Brasil without notification is enough to have the card blocked, even though you were able to withdraw cash. But, the next time you try, the card will not work.
    PTRio2013-04-15 11:55:39

  • #245673

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=PTRio]Could it be that time of day is a factor here? I never visit an ATM after dark, and the nearby BdB bank lobby ATM closes at 10 pm I believe, but perhaps a time has been set earlier than closing after which no withdrawals of more than R$300 are permitted? Seems a bit sophisticated for Brasil, but??? On the other hand, I was denied for weeks at BdB and HSBC on any amount over R$300, and that was during business hours on week days.
    Reading through all these posts leaves the impression something has recently changed, and R$1,000 withdrawals are now permitted but not for everyone. Chip cards do not seem to be a factor, none of mine have chips and I recently withdrew R$1,000 from BdB on each of two different US debit cards at around 11:00 am at a BdB bank lobby ATM.
    So many possible variables, mall machines, time of day, Country where card issued, chip/no chip, sunny/cloudy outside, or just plain random Brasilian who knows what? This game of ATM roulette is very tiresome. The exercise walking from bank to bank is a benefit I would gladly forgo.
    [/QUOTE]
    Time is not a factor for me. I generally only make withdrawals during banking hours or during shopping hours on weekends. Still doesn’t work, for the most part.
    Actually, the chip card issue seems to favour those without chip cards. Anecdotal evidence in this thread seems to point to more problems with chip cards, and somebody mentioned that B do B once blamed Canadian chip cards for earlier problems (which seems to be nonsense).
    All I know is that all my (Canadian chip) cards were working fine here a couple of months ago, and r$1,000 were no problem unless B do B failed to spit out the money and I got the dreaded communication error message. Now most of us seem to be having problems or are facing absurdly low withdrawal limits.
    I certainly hope this disappears as quickly as it arose.

  • #245674

    CARD CLONER CAUGHT ON VIDEO!
    The video link below from the O Globo website shows a bank lobby security camera video of a card cloner installing the apparatus which records the card number and another which holds a micro video camera to record the PIN. Then, the police show in close up exactly how these devices are attached to the ATM.
    The key is, if you cover the hand you use for entering the PIN with a piece of paper, magazine, or even just your other hand, the camera cannot see your PIN being entered and the thief will be unable to clone your card for use at an ATM. It could still be used to purchase goods, however, where a PIN is not required.
    Not sure how long this link will be active, O Globo takes the videos down within 48 hours usually.
    http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2013/04/policia-prende-homem-que-clonava-cartoes-em-caixa-eletronico-no-rio.html
    PTRio2013-04-15 14:05:09

  • #245679

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=PTRio]
    CARD CLONER CAUGHT ON VIDEO!The video link below from the O Globo website shows a bank lobby security camera video of a card cloner installing the apparatus which records the card number and another which holds a micro video camera to record the PIN. Then, the police show in close up exactly how these devices are attached to the ATM. The key is, if you cover the hand you use for entering the PIN with a piece of paper, magazine, or even just your other hand, the camera cannot see your PIN being entered and the thief will be unable to close your card for use at an ATM. It could still be used to purchase goods, however, where a PIN is not required.Not sure how long this link will be active, O Globo takes the videos down within 48 hours usually. http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2013/04/policia-prende-homem-que-clonava-cartoes-em-caixa-eletronico-no-rio.html
    [/QUOTE]
    Nice link. I will now use my left hand to cover the keypad.

  • #245691

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]Be sure to contact your various banks in Canada and inform them that you are in the Salvador area.
    Last month some of my cards were blocked because the US Bank/Card security froze the cards. They thought the Brazil cash withdrawals might be identity theft.
    I had to call the banks and talk to security to unblock them. The security department asked me to let them know the next time I’ll be in Brazil.[/QUOTE]
    I had something similar, however I had told my bank (HSBC) prior t travel that it would be used in Brazil. Used it at least 3 times a week in various places throughout Sao Paulo city and then we took a trip north west and it all went wrong…only as far as Santo Antonio do Pinhal (great little place to visit). I got a call from some card security company saying there had been “Unusual activity” on my account and until I could confirm some recent transactions they had frozen my account.
    But they wouldn’t identify themselves and the number was a local UK number. I was totally suspicious and for me to identify my self, they wanted my card number, sort code and post code.
    It was total lunacy. I gave the local number to my brother back in teh UK who went into an HSBC branch the next morning. It was on their system. Apparently they employ a third party card fraud branch to monitor international card activity that often work from private offices or even from home!
    Seems pretty strange from a bank like HSBC’s perspective. The phone call didn’t instill me with confidence that HSBC were on top of fraud, but more worried me that some random guy that had ascertained I was using a hsbc card in brazil was desperate to get the details

  • #245694

    ukbr
    Member

    This is suspicious. As I am sure everybody else has experienced I have never dealt with any bank that ever had a policy other than “NEVER SUPPLY YOUR PIN TO ANYBODY INCLUDING THE BANK”.
    This company you dealt with may be legit but the employee perhaps not acting so at that moment.
    HSBC has security devices that have a visible external code and that is what can be used for identification in addition to other info (as I’m sure you know).
    I suggest you pursue this further so you can be confident that someone at HSBC in authority is aware.

  • #245705

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    Dear Mr. ANDREW:
    We refer to your contact Customer Relationship Management Financial
    Institution in this 11/04/2013, questioning changing the daily limit for
    withdrawals at ATMs our customers of other banks.
    We clarify that a preventive measure and for the safety of users of our
    ATMs in withdrawals with credit and debit cards from Visa and MasterCard,
    the limits were reduced value and amount of withdrawals for:
    – Customers with HSBC cards issued in other countries, and
    – Customers of other banks that use national or international networks Plus
    (Visa) or MasterCard (Cirrus).
    from 6 am to 21h59 from $ 1,000.00 to $ 300.00
    22h at 5:59 a.m. from $ 300.00 to $ 100.00
    the number of transactions 5 to 1.
    This reduction will remain in effect until new shares are deployed.
    Thank you for your demonstration, which will contribute to the continuous
    improvement of our products and services.
    Sincerely,
    ________________________________________
    HSBC Bank Brasil S.A.

  • #245706

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    Got this from HSBC, no idea what it means when “new shares are deployed”.

  • #245707

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    maybe it means when new actions are deployed, false cognate, that would be my best guess

  • #245711

    [QUOTE=andrewfroboy]Got this from HSBC, no idea what it means when “new shares are deployed”. [/QUOTE]
    At least it is a response, and clarifies the time element and amounts at HSBC, so I will scratch them off my list of banks to use.
    Thank goodness BdB has resumed R$1,000 ATM withdrawals, at least in the bank lobby locations where I have been. Went to BdB today, in fact, and withdrew R$1,000 .

  • #245763

    ACaljr
    Member

    I just want to share here that I was able to withdraw R$1000 from CITIBANK in Sao Paulo at around 7PM. They charged R$12.00 for the transaction. I stopped using HSBC and BdB because I can only get R$300 per day.funnyc20062013-04-16 09:18:03

  • #245767

    paleoism1007
    Member

    I have been using Bradesco because of all the issues with BdB, and Hsbc..I have had NO issues with amounts or errorsmufinch2013-04-16 09:44:55

  • #245774

    [QUOTE=funnyc2006]I just want to share here that I was able to withdraw R$1000 from CITIBANK in Sao Paulo at around 7PM. They charged R$12.00 for the transaction. I stopped using HSBC and BdB because I can only get R$300 per day.[/QUOTE]
    Interesting. I also had thought the fees were higher at CitiBank, and on the ATM screen they do show higher fees, but when I check my account online I am only charged the same amount as BdB, HSBC or Bradesco US $5.00, plus 1% “currency fee”, for a total of around US$10 on an R$1,000 ATM withdrawal. In other words, my local US bank, BofA, apparently has a fixed fee for ATM usage and sticks to it no matter what the Brasilian bank charges. I have not checked CitiBank during the past 10 days or so, glad to hear you were able to withdraw R$1,000. Was this in a bank lobby, shopping mall, or other location? Time of day?
    The Schwab account has what appears to be the best rate for foreign ATM’s anywhere……FREE! According to their website, http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account no fees whatsoever, no account fees, no ATM fees. I am looking into setting up an account there, I hope I can do it from here in Brasil as my next trip to the US is not for some time.
    Seems to be a very confusing and inconsistent policy regarding withdrawal amounts at Brasilian ATM’s.

  • #245776

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    Schwab>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Everyone else
    I am a huge fan and have convinced probably 10 expats in various countries to get an account, so good. I miss the days of my 2% cashback Schwab credit card, unfortunately they discontinued it.

  • #245851

    Zackery
    Participant

    [QUOTE=toolio]
    [QUOTE=PTRio]Could it be that time of day is a factor here? I never visit an ATM after dark, and the nearby BdB bank lobby ATM closes at 10 pm I believe, but perhaps a time has been set earlier than closing after which no withdrawals of more than R$300 are permitted? Seems a bit sophisticated for Brasil, but??? On the other hand, I was denied for weeks at BdB and HSBC on any amount over R$300, and that was during business hours on week days. Reading through all these posts leaves the impression something has recently changed, and R$1,000 withdrawals are now permitted but not for everyone. Chip cards do not seem to be a factor, none of mine have  chips and I recently withdrew R$1,000 from BdB on each of two different US debit cards at around 11:00 am at a BdB bank lobby ATM. So many possible variables, mall machines, time of day, Country where card issued, chip/no chip, sunny/cloudy outside, or just plain random Brasilian who knows what? This game of ATM roulette is very tiresome. The exercise walking from bank to bank is a benefit I would gladly forgo.
    [/QUOTE]Time is not a factor for me. I generally only make withdrawals during banking hours or during shopping hours on weekends. Still doesn’t work, for the most part.Actually, the chip card issue seems to favour those without chip cards. Anecdotal evidence in this thread seems to point to more problems with chip cards, and somebody mentioned that B do B once blamed Canadian chip cards for earlier problems (which seems to be nonsense).All I know is that all my (Canadian chip) cards were working fine here a couple of months ago, and r$1,000 were no problem unless B do B failed to spit out the money and I got the dreaded communication error message. Now most of us seem to be having problems or are facing absurdly low withdrawal limits.I certainly hope this disappears as quickly as it arose.[/QUOTE]
    Toolio, I am beginning to think there is indeed some connection between canadian chip cards and the brazilian bank communications with Cirrus (Mastercard/Maestro) networks and Plus(Visa) networks.
    What the issue is or where the problem is I cannot get an answer. The problem is the canadian card issuers keep telling me there should not be any problems, their cards work on those networks. And, indeed they do, both in Mexico and in Europe in the last few months for me. I know we have had chip cards commenly in use longer than the US and believe the magnetic strip cards of US banks appear to be less problematic. I also know my chip cards used to work in Brazil reliably. There is just something else at play here. It’s extremely frustrating since you cannot, and I don’t think, ever will get a definitive answer from any canadian card issuer, not when there is no evidence of issues with other countries. But something has changed and it has to be related to the communication protocols with cdn bank networks, and specific to Brazil. BTW, do your cdn debit cards work just fine for POS machines in restaurants, shops, etc? Mine do, absolutely no problem.

  • #245858

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=zack222]
    Toolio, I am beginning to think there is indeed some connection between canadian chip cards and the brazilian bank communications with Cirrus (Mastercard/Maestro) networks and Plus(Visa) networks.
    What the issue is or where the problem is I cannot get an answer. The problem is the canadian card issuers keep telling me there should not be any problems, their cards work on those networks. And, indeed they do, both in Mexico and in Europe in the last few months for me. I know we have had chip cards commenly in use longer than the US and believe the magnetic strip cards of US banks appear to be less problematic. I also know my chip cards used to work in Brazil reliably. There is just something else at play here. It’s extremely frustrating since you cannot, and I don’t think, ever will get a definitive answer from any canadian card issuer, not when there is no evidence of issues with other countries. But something has changed and it has to be related to the communication protocols with cdn bank networks, and specific to Brazil. BTW, do your cdn debit cards work just fine for POS machines in restaurants, shops, etc? Mine do, absolutely no problem.[/QUOTE]
    Zack, Like you I have never had problems with my Canadian chip cards anywhere except in Brazil. They were recently used in the US and Canada with no problems whatsoever. I don’t think I’ve used my bank cards in Europe since the chip versions arrived. But I have never had problems with the non-chip versions. I will be in Europe in June and will test them there.
    I can’t answer your question about using bank debit cards in Brazil because, to be honest, I’ve never tried it. I wasn’t even aware that Canadian debit cards could be used in Brazil for point-of-sale transactions. I assume you’re talking about debit cards and not credit cards.
    My Visa and Mastercard with chips work fine here for POS, although II don’t use them often for regular transactions. I have had trouble with American Express, but it has nothing to do with the card. They just assume that when it is used in Brazil some kind of fraud is being committed. But that’s another issue, and it is being discussed here as well.

  • #245873

    Zackery
    Participant

    Toolie,
    Oh yes, I use my debit cards (all chipped), in Brazil on a regular basis with nary a problem. I always have the terminal in sight and do not allow a waiter take the card out of sight. Of course, with the mobile machines now, much less of an issue. They have them on the beaches of Rio now!
    Have only had one cloning issue in 10 years and that was one of those notorious atms in Gig.

  • #245874

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=zack222]Toolie,
    Oh yes, I use my debit cards (all chipped), in Brazil on a regular basis with nary a problem. I always have the terminal in sight and do not allow a waiter take the card out of sight. Of course, with the mobile machines now, much less of an issue. They have them on the beaches of Rio now!
    Have only had one cloning issue in 10 years and that was one of those notorious atms in Gig.[/QUOTE]
    Mmmmm….didn’t know that was possible. I will give it a try. Thanks for the info.

  • #245914

    Patigell
    Member

    It happened to me (card cloning) at an HSBC atm inside the bank in Fortaleza. Ridiculous to say the least.

  • #245944

    [QUOTE=KL Gringo]It happened to me (card cloning) at an HSBC atm inside the bank in Fortaleza. Ridiculous to say the least.[/QUOTE]
    My three cloning experiences were all the result of using the ATM in the lobby of an HSBC bank in Ipanema.

  • #246013

    doctorlili
    Member

    I had several card not read situations at BB the past few days, and no problem with erroneous debits. My Schwab card was blocked several times, because they are on high alert in Brazil. It’s been very costly to call Schwab twice until they had resolved this.

  • #246015

    cabron22
    Member

    [QUOTE=tbird] On Sunday I tried to withdraw money at a Banco do Brasil terminal. I got the aviso “sem comunicaçao”, operation failed. I then tried another terminal, thinking it might be an isolated problem. Same result: Sem comunicaçao, operation failed. Hmmm. I then figured it might be an issue with that branch, so I went to another Banco do Brasil branch. Tried again, same result. I then tried with a card from another bank, same result. All in all, four tries without getting a single centavo out. Today, 2 days later, I looked at my statement online and to my surprise the bank took out the entire amount (4 times 1000 reais) from my account! So apparently the “sem comunicao” message meant that they had communication to verify the card data with my bank and process the withdrawal request but did not have communication to inform my bank that the operations failed.
    I guess i’ll have to make the journey back to the two agencies and explain it to a manager..
    Has this ever happened to any of you? How did you solve it?[/QUOTE]
    If this kind of thing happen with you, at that time you have to contact bank manager or customer care of the bank , they should have their own team who work on these kind of things. its better for you to contact them.

  • #246017

    Luca
    Member

    No one at Banco do Brasil gives a sh#t.

  • #246029

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=smithjames] If this kind of thing happen with you, at that time you have to contact bank manager or customer care of the bank , they should have their own team who work on these kind of things. its better for you to contact them.[/QUOTE]
    This is absolute nonsense. Bank of Brasil or any other Brazilian bank will not help you with cash withdrawals from its machines that fail to dispense cash. If you are a foreign customer you must contact the bank from which the money was debited. That is the policy of all Brazilian banks. In fact it is the policy of banks around the world. If you fail to get money in the U.S. from your Brazilian bank card at a U.S. bank machine you would have to contact your Brazilian bank. Fortunately that’s not likely to happen, since ATM machines in the rest of the world actually work.

  • #246263

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    I have been out of Brazil for two months. Actually I haven’t made an ATM withdrawal since Jan 23rd so I have missed all the fun. I always used HSBC … clean, cool, and uncrowded. When I tried to withdraw R$900 there Friday (April 19th) I got a ‘your daily limit has been exceeded’ fault. I did not try another terminal as I usually would have in the past, because of all the posts I read here, and I didn’t want to lock up the account, which sometimes happens after three tries. So I went next door to Bradesco. There the ATM prompted me that the maximum withdrawal was R$800. OK … I performed an R$800 withdrawal … no problem. Today (April 22nd) I went to BdB and did a R$900 transaction … no problem. I suppose I could have done a R$1000 if I wanted. Exchange rate on both transactions was PTAX. I remember Bradesco always having a lower daily limit (I thought it was R$600) and that’s one reason I avoided their ATMs.
    So that is how it is for me, today, here in Cidade Cuporca-MT.

  • #246264

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=jacare] I remember Bradesco always having a lower daily limit (I thought it was R$600) and that’s one reason I avoided their ATMs.So that is how it is for me, today, here in Cidade Cuporca-MT.[/QUOTE]
    I also ignored bradesco machines for that reason. The limit was r$600, at least here in Salvador. I was surprised when I was able to get r$800.

  • #246267

    [QUOTE=toolio] [QUOTE=smithjames] If this kind of thing happen with you, at that time you have to contact bank manager or customer care of the bank , they should have their own team who work on these kind of things. its better for you to contact them.[/QUOTE]
    This is absolute nonsense. Bank of Brasil or any other Brazilian bank will not help you with cash withdrawals from its machines that fail to dispense cash. If you are a foreign customer you must contact the bank from which the money was debited. That is the policy of all Brazilian banks. In fact it is the policy of banks around the world. If you fail to get money in the U.S. from your Brazilian bank card at a U.S. bank machine you would have to contact your Brazilian bank. Fortunately that’s not likely to happen, since ATM machines in the rest of the world actually work.[/QUOTE]
    I can verify from 10 years of experience (Bank of America fraud department is on my speed dial….) that what Toolio says is 100% correct. You must deal with the bank that issued your card, the local bank in Brasil will not deal with you. Same with using Brasilian card outside Brasil, deal with the bank that issued the card.

  • #246280

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    I forgot to add. The ATMs at the local HSBC are operated by Banco24hrs. They had told me before that they were handled by a 3rd party when I experienced the occasional snafu (and take your troubles to the bank that issued your card) but now it’s painted on the glass door.

  • #246288

    doctorlili
    Member

    I was trying for days to actually max out my USD 1000 a day limit on my Schwab debit card, but its hard. The BdB has a R$ 1000 limit, and the ITAU and Santander do not have the international network. No City Bank or HSBC here either. Finally found Bradesco having ATMs in international network, but their maximum was R$800. I went for a second dip of R$200 thinking that next I would go to BdB pull another R$1000 and make a deposit of a round R$2000 but there my card was blocked again. It is very very frustrating. Now I would have to pay another USD 5 to 10 for the phone charges to have it unblocked.

  • #246290

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=Squiddie]Now I would have to pay another USD 5 to 10 for the phone charges to have it unblocked.[/QUOTE]
    Get a skype account. Pay $0.00.

  • #246306

    doctorlili
    Member

    the USD 5-10 are Skype charges. Only way to connect if bandwidth is bad is Google voice via Skype-In to forwarded cellphone number. 15 US cents per minute. But I guess you are right, today I might have tried Skype directly I even had 3G for a moment on the TIM chip.

  • #247515

    palindrome
    Member

    Deposits at ATMs can be convenient. However, you may run into trouble or have doubts about deposit ATMs. Are they safe? Do they have special rules? Learn about a few pitfalls of deposit ATMs so you can avoid unpleasant surprises.

  • #247521

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=infradoctor] Deposits at ATMs can be convenient. However, you may run into trouble
    or have doubts about deposit ATMs. Are they safe? Do they have special
    rules? Learn about a few pitfalls of deposit ATMs so you can avoid
    unpleasant surprises.
    [/QUOTE]
    WTF???????????

  • #247522

    toolio
    Participant

    I am pleased to report that in Salvador I am once again able to withdraw r$1000 at a time from Banco do Brasil machines in shopping malls. Although I remain cautious because of the recent “sem comunicacao” problems, I have successfully made a number of withdrawals in the last week or so.
    This is all very strange. Three weeks ago I could get nothing at all, while others were reporting a reduced limit of r$300. Lately everything seems back to normal–with the exception that my MasterCard, which used to work perfectly, has been declared an invalid card by B do B. However bank debit cards and Visa are working fine.

  • #247526

    [QUOTE=toolio]I am pleased to report that in Salvador I am once again able to withdraw r$1000 at a time from Banco do Brasil machines in shopping malls. Although I remain cautious because of the recent “sem comunicacao” problems, I have successfully made a number of withdrawals in the last week or so.
    This is all very strange. Three weeks ago I could get nothing at all, while others were reporting a reduced limit of r$300. Lately everything seems back to normal–with the exception that my MasterCard, which used to work perfectly, has been declared an invalid card by B do B. However bank debit cards and Visa are working fine.[/QUOTE]
    Good to hear that. I have also been able to use the BdB for R$1k ATM withdrawals here in Rio again. Hopefully, the withdrawal restrictions were just some junior executives idea for reducing fraud and theft and he/she has now been fired so our lives can get back to “Brasil normal”.

  • #247551

    Liliqtozin
    Member

    [QUOTE=PTRio]Hopefully, the withdrawal restrictions were just some junior executives idea for reducing fraud and theft and he/she has now been fired so our lives can get back to “Brasil normal”. [/QUOTE]
    Blame it on the MBA!! I’m all for that.

  • #247558

    doctorlili
    Member

    SP state, R$1000 is the max at BdB. R$800 max at Bradesco. Those were the only international network ATMs I found. I know Citibank and HSBC have them but they weren’t were I was.
    Obs: On about 2 dozen transaction attempts, I had several card not read situations on the second insertion, but no problem, no double billing occurred.
    I also did the deposits at BdB and all of them came through. I even somehow miscounted once and noted a lower amount. When the deposit was completed, the amount was R$100 higher. So, the system works pretty well.

  • #248239

    I ran across this interesting piece of news, thought perhaps it may have been the basis for Brasilian banks reducing withdrawal limits at local ATM’s. They haven’t exactly been sharing much information over the fiasco. This scam sounds like it was based on the ability to eliminate daily withdrawal limits, though.

    There are your everyday ATMskimming schemes, and then there are global hacking operations that allegedlysiphoned $45 million from ATMs around the globe in just a few hours. It’s kindof like a flash mob, said one former prosecutor, and the ease with which it wasapparently carried out has got those in the security world a little bitnervous.

    So far seven people havebeen arrested in the U.S., reports the Associated Press,and stand accused of being the New York cell of a worldwide crime network.Authorities say thefts went down at ATMs in 27 countries from Canada to Russia,and it took law enforcement agencies from around the globe to pull off theinvestigation.

    Unfortunately these typesof cybercrimes involving ATMs, where you’ve got a flash mob going out acrossthe globe, are becoming more and more common, a former federal prosecutor andregional director for the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commissionexplains. I expect there will be many more of these types of crimes, sheadded.

    The good news is that noconsumers apparently lost their cash, as the hackers pulled the money from thestashes banks have to back up pre-paid debit cards, and not individual orbusiness accounts.

    According to theauthorities, hackers worked their way into bank databases and erased withdrawallimits on pre-paid debit cards and made up their own access codes. Then thatdata would be loaded onto any old plastic card with a magnetic stripe, even ahotel key card could work.

    From then on it was anold-fashioned heist, with operatives spread around the world pulling out moneyin multiple cities, who would then take their cuts, and then launder the restby buying expensive goods or shipping it to the head honchos in charge of theoperation.

    It almost seems like thegroup held a trial run first, with an attack in December that stole $5 millionworldwide, and then the other in February that brought in the big haul of $40million in 10 hours, with a whopping 36,000 transactions.

    The weak spot the thievesexploited seems to be the magnetic strips on the back of the cards — most ofthe world has ditched those cards in favor of ones with built-in chips that area lot harder to copy. Since U.S. banks still use them, however, merchants stillaccept them worldwide.

    Global Network ofHackers Steal $45 Million From ATMs [Associated Press]

    Normal0falsefalsefalseEN-USX-NONEX-NONE

  • #251305

    This is a new ATM scam, and rather sophisticated. The thieves somehowcause the ATM to retain the user’s card, and then re-route the phone next tothe ATM used to contact the bank, to one of the scammers who is located justoutside the ATM location and who then asks a series of questions including PIN and other personal information. Then, they say thecard cannot be released from the machine and when the customer leaves, thethieves get the card out of the machine and off they go to withdraw all yourmoney.

    From the O Globo online:

    10/06/2013 13h46 – Atualizado em 10/06/2013 13h52

    Presos trêssuspeitos de fraudar caixas eletrônicos em GO, Rio e SP

    Após ter cartão retido, ligação parabanco era direcionada aos golpistas.
    Quadrilha detida em Goiânia foi apresentada nesta segunda-feira (10).

    Sílvio TúlioDo G1 GO

    Comente agora

    Quadrlhafoi presa em Goiânia no sábado (8) (Foto: Sílvio Túlio / G1)

    Três homens foram presos em flagrante em Goiâniasuspeitos de integrar uma quadrilha que fraudavacaixas eletrônicos. Com idades de 55, 30 e 23 anos, eles foram apresentadosnesta segunda-feira (10), na Delegacia de Investigações Criminais (Deic). A sofistação tecnológica usada pelo trio surpreendeu os policiais.

    Segundo a Polícia Civil, o grupo retinha o cartãodo cliente no caixa eletrônico. A fraude consistia também em desviar a linhatelefônica da central de atendimento do banco para o celular de um dosintegrantes da quadrilha, que atendia a ligação dos clientes e pegava as senhasdeles para, assim, realizar os saques posteriormente.

    saiba mais

    De acordo com a polícia, os suspeitos, que também agiam em São Pauloe no Rio de Janeiro, chegaram a Goiânia na sexta-feira(7) e foram detidos no dia seguinte, depois de instalar os equipamentos usadosna ação criminosa em uma agência bancária do Setor Rodoviário, na regiãosudoeste da cidade.

    Oesquema funcionava da seguinte forma: os suspeitos instalavam um aparelhodentro do caixa eletrônico que retinha o cartão na máquina e pedia para que ocliente ligasse para a central de atendimento. No entanto, o aparelho detelefone localizado na agência bancária tinha um celular acoplado, instaladopelos criminosos sem que ele ficasse visível. Assim, a ligação era direcionadapara um dos integrantes da quadrilha, que ficava do lado de fora da agência.

    “Essa pessoa se passava por um funcionário do banco eenganava o cliente. Ela pedia a senha do cartão para fazer o desbloqueio, masdizia que não teria como tirá-lo de lá naquele momento. Depois, com um controleremoto, desbloqueavam o equipamento e pegavam o cartão para fazer saques ecompras”, detalha o delegado Glaydson Carvalho, responsável pela prisãoe titular do Grupo Antissequestro da Deic.

    Materialusado pela quadrilha para fraudar os caixas eletrônicos (Foto: Sílvio Túlio /G1)

    O delegado afirmou que esta foi a primeira vez queviu este tipo de crime sendo cometido com tamanho grau tecnológico. Ele informou ainda que a direção do banco foi quem alertou apolícia. Uma estimativa do prejuízo causado deve ser passada para o delegadoainda nesta segunda-feira.

    A polícia informou que vai continuar as investigações parasaber se há mais integrantes na quadrilha. Além dos equipamentos eletrônicosusados no crime, dois cartões furtados também foram apreendidos em poder dossuspeitos. Os três responderão pelo crime de estelionato e, caso sejamcondenados, podem pegar de 1 a 5 anos de prisão.

    Normal0falsefalsefalsefalseEN-USX-NONEX-NONE

  • #251307

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    Obviously any legit service hotline would never ask for your PIN.

  • #23690

    Luca
    Member

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.