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  • #31493

    CrydayTrach
    Member

    BE CAREFUL…!!Do not transfer large sums of money fron Banks abroad, lots of smaller transfers are better than one large transfer. You will be Taxed… Big time..!!YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED..!!Stay well all…

  • #32895

    Greenback
    Member

    What constitutes “Big” amounts? Eoghan

  • #32900

    Anonymous

    Ten thousand dollars, whether in a lump sum or in parcels.

  • #32904

    LandAmerica
    Member

    Yes, but aren’t “parcels” lots of smaller sums? And over what period of time? Not being a pain, just trying to understand.

  • #32912

    PatrickGH
    Member

    Central Bank regulations are all at http://www.bcb.gov.br(choose English tab on the site)They actually don’t say over what period of time. But that is not for people who are actually moving here.If you are moving here you have the right simply to bring in your patrimony. If you move out you have the right to move your patrimony out again, up to a limit of 300 thousand dollars.I am not sure whether the bulk of your bank transferal should wait until you become a FISCAL resident of Brazil… I reckon so. But I am not a lawyer etc… I am sure Bradesco can help you.

  • #33091

    santos
    Member

    Hey folks help me kick an idea around here.As many of you know, I am planning a move from Brazil back to the good ole USA soon. Recently, I transferred a sum of money (less than US$10,000) from my Brazilian account (in reais) to my US account (in dollars). Sure there were fees to be paid, but the most painful part of this transfer was seeing more than 3% of the money vaporize in the exchange rate (i.e., the commercial rate that day was around 2.26:1, but I had to pay R$2.34 for each of those dollars ).Then I started thinking there are a fair number of folks around who are moving to Brazil, transferring their investments to Brazil, etc, that must be suffering similar transaction losses. Now I know this idea is a little crazy but why couldn‚Äôt I make an arrangement with one of those folks to trade our money ‚Äì i.e., they transfer dollars into my US account on the same day that I transfer reais into their Brazilian account ‚Äì cutting out the banks and the cambio thieves in the process?Yes, yes, Nina, I know it must be illegal in eight different ways. Probably even talkingabout it is illegal. And I would never do such a thing. I‚Äôm just rolling the idea around in my head ‚Äì you know, like planning the perfect murder, which you would never commit.One obvious problem I see with the plan would be tax issues. Both sides of the transaction would have sums of money appearing in their accounts that they might have to explain to their respective tax bureaus. My first thought would be to tell the truth, I made an interest free loan in Brazil, to be paid in dollars in the US. Is that illegal in the US? I don’t see why. Sounds a lot like money laundering, though ‚Äì but is it money laundering if all the money is clean in the first place? I don’t know. Then of course, there‚Äôs the trust issue. How do I know that he‚Äôs making his transfer before I make my transfer, etc? Is there a way to make such a transaction where both parties are protected from each other? Again just hypothetical musings… Is there a way to make such a crazy plan work?

  • #33157

    mercy224
    Member

    I’m sure I haven’t got the whole picture here but what I understand isif I transfer money from the UK to my girlfriends account itsconsidered a “doacao” and she has to pay 4% on that direct. If I transfer money from the UK as a “transferencia do Patrimonio” thenit is exempt from this. Are you saying this is still liable fortax if it is above $10,000US? Do you have any idea how much this islikely to be? I’ve just sent a SWIFT form to my bank in the UK to transfer moneyabove this level to buy some land and obviously this is going to bemessy if the full amount doesn’t arrive in the sellers account on thedue date. I have until mid -december to stop this and find another wayif required.

  • #33160

    mercy224
    Member

    ogringox When buying land/property in Brazil you should send the purchase amount plus about 10% to cover documentation DIRECT to the sellers bank account having first obtained a contract signed by the seller and authenticated by the local ‘cartorio’ (notarius publicus) The contract should describe the land/property with full adress and the purchase price to be paid. The contract should also state that within 48 hours of receiving the monies in sellers account,he must have the Cartorio prepare the ‘Escritura’ for signatures by himself and the purchaser or his nominee (‘procurador’) Some Cartorios will even accept the signature of the seller and hold the actual original escritura until it can be endorsed by the purchaser in person. Your girlfriend can be authorized by you as your procurador only for the instance of signing the escritura on your behalf. The procuraçao becomes invalid after that. You send the money as ‘personal belongings’ to purchase land/property as documented by contract submitted to Banco Central in Brazil when they receive the dollar equivalent and forward a receipt advice to the sellers bank. When the sellers bank receives notification that the monies have arrived centrally he must immediately send a copy of the purchase contract by fax as proof of the monies destination.

  • #33177

    EricSGU
    Member

    Thanks Yachtmarine – this is in fact almost exactly what I am doing -although I will be back in Brasil to sign myself. That is why the SWIFTform has been posted in advance. The only thing I don’t have on the SWIFT form is “Personal Belongings /Transferencia do Patrimonio ” due to lack of space. It does have theaddress of the terreno that I’m buying. The money is coming direct frommy account in my name in the UK and has already been taxed there. Do you think I should change this and send a new one? But I’d like to get back to the original topic of the first post – theidea of heavy tax if you transfer more than 10K US – is this somethingnew because of the changes in the law, has it always been there, andhow much is it? I’m slowly sifting throught the bcb site but its hard to concentrate onit when theres so many relatively exciting distractions such as painton the wall drying ….. I’ve found no help at all talking to my own bank about this – they aredoing their best to encourage me not to send any money to my accountfrom abroad, ‘burra’cracy – I’m sure they don’t know what they aretalking about, although at least you can get some reasonable answersfrom the central Banco do Brasil if you call personally or at leasttalked with confidence…

  • #33179

    kylie
    Participant

    I don’t know if our friend David is still around… I’d like a little more clarification on what he said, as well. I suspect it is quite possible that large transfers could be taxed like income if you don’t do the proper documentation… maybe that’s what he is referring to. I have also pm’d with others in this group who have mentioned going to great lengths to properly declare the investments they are bringing into Brazil… this is somehow important if and when you decide to take the money back out of Brazil in the future. Sounds like we all need a good tax lawyer.If you decide to stop that payment until you confirm you’re doing everything right, I wouldn’t sweat it. It ain’t always easy finding a qualified buyer for your land… If the seller has to wait just a few more weeks for his money… he will.

  • #33180

    LolyBH
    Member

    Most European and other countries has income tax agreements with Brazil avoiding double taxation. If you are a tax payer in your own country you do not pay tax in Brazil on monies with origin in your own country. Any monies earned in Brazil such as property letting or other business is DEFINATELY taxed. Any monies you send for someone elses account who are taxable to Brazil will also have to pay tax on this amount I suppose at standard rates. Holders of ‘poupanca’ bank accounts do not pay tax but are very restricted in operation. The Receita Federal and state banks have tightened up on large money transfers owing to money laundering by both dishonest politicians and other illegal traffic and will demand clear lines both of the monies ORIGIN as well as it‘s PURPOSE and DESTINATION which has to be properly documented. Banco Central (Nothing to do with Banco do Brazil) is the official clearing bank for all arriving funds which is then converted at the days exchange rate into rials, and, if documentation is accepted, is then transferred to the receipients bank branch/account. You may as a foreigner open a bank account provided you have a CPF and an RNE plus proof of residency. (copy of a telephone/electricity bill etc. in YOUR name) I strongly recommend the Itau Bank which is private and has more experience with foreign transactions.

  • #33181

    LolyBH
    Member

    YM, Quem, I think you’ve re-inforced my confidence in what I believed before, soI’ll leave it as it is and keep going. I had no problems with thisroute 3 years ago when I bought my apartment. I think I over-reacted a bit at the surprise in the change in laws andeveryones shock at this happening on the discussion boards, in thereaction of people I’ve talked to by phone, and the difference fromdealing with a knowledgable gerente in my branch of the Banco do Brasilthen to a fdp now. The piece of land in question is part of a new condominio, with approx18/25 lotes sold, and just as we made the decision to buy, the ownerarrived with new prices, up about 15%. However he was good enough tocomplete our paperwork at the original price, even though my paymenthas now been delayed as I had to go back to work early and didn’t get apower of attorney signed for my girlfriend in time. Thus if thetransfer should fall through this time, he would be completelyjustified in looking for the new price. Although i’ve been looking at the gringoes site for a while, this isthe first time i’ve looked at the discussion boards. I’m impressed bythe quality and have found some very useful info on the boards. Thanks again

  • #37110

    joelle24
    Member

    The only thing to be said is: Make transfers to Brazil by using a mean that allows you to declare to Banco Cantral that you receiving money from other country (all official banks). You will have always the right to withdraw funds from Brazil whenever you want. I see frequently in the bank, foreign people confused after selling a property in Brazil, whose money was not declared when brought to Brazil. Antonio

  • #37237

    joelle24
    Member

    I don’t know if I will run into problems later but I transfered about $50K to Brizil by putting a credit balance on my credit card and then doing large cash withdrawls against my credit card. Used Bradesco and they didn’t see any problem with it.

  • #37508

    cariocaguy, I have considered the same approach, but am still researching the options.I would like to bring about ¬£100k (GBP) into Brazil to purchase a home. My wife is a fully paid-up, card carrying Brazilian, and I am in the process of getting my CPF card.I have also looked at using HSBC, banking with them in Europe enables me to draw money in Brazil from a current account. However, if this is being kept under the radar, daily withdrawals for a property could take some months!I’ll post my findings here, and see what the best options are going to be.Good luck.

  • #38216

    EricSGU
    Member

    TRY-www.neteller.com

  • #38232

    jen passos
    Member

    Participants;As Antonio said, once you bring your money in without declaring it or passing it through Banco Central, most likely, you will have consequences during or after the transaction is finalized.For those interested in purchasing real estate, money transfers are easy and completely legal, they are usually done by wire transfer, but be carefull, in the purchase and sale contract you should have an additional clause and a description of how and when it will be done.Once it’s done properly you shall not have any headaches with Banco Central or Receita Federal when you decide to sell it.This posting is merely informative, always consult your attorney.

  • #43205

    KiwiCaipri
    Member

    Why risk breaking the law when there are so many loopholes to be exploited? Indeed, people do so every day of your life. Perhaps you’re worried about the moral implications of avoiding tax? After all, every citizen needs to contribute to defence, the National Health Service, road-building programmes, the emergency services, the maintenance of embassies and consulates in every country of the world, street lighting, foreign aid, our subsidy to the common agricultural policy… Again, to re-state: there is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion ‚Äì the former is perfectly legal, the latter is against the law. Revenue services are battling for your tax dollar, while you should be battling just as hard to keep your dollar from them (legally of course)

  • #7450

    ajmh
    Member

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