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  • #183374

    Lise
    Member

    I have been chatting with a woman on MSN for about 4 weeks now, i dont know portuguese and her no English as we use translation. She seems decent and works as a math teacher in Mias gras (FJ) i think her town is called, it a couple hours from Rio
    I am going to go and meet her seconed week in October,i need a good airline flying from uk to Rio?
    Also i have work commitments so dont want to be away much longer than a week to ten days, not long but at least we will get to meet and i will see brazil for the first time.
    Any thoughts would be appreciated

  • #183381

    Anonymous

    You got to be kidding me.

  • #183389

    Tedichi
    Member

    It’s the 21st.. Meeting in cafe’s and bookstores is so last century..

    I don’t know about airlines, just use a popular search engine for it. And go for it, if she doesn’t work out, you’ll meet a ton of other girls a long the way.. Try to go for longer if you can, staying in Rio de Janeiro the city..
    learn some portuguese, even a few phrases, it will assist you, not to mention neither of you can talk offline lol..
  • #183394

    romanji
    Member

    You’ll find the best airline prices with TAM.
    Be careful. Think why would a woman from Brazil (who is probably very attractive considering you’re willing to fly out there after only speaking to her for 4 weeks) would want to meet a guy in the UK. Would it have anything to do with money? Probably…
    I don’t want to convince you not to go, a 10 day vacay in Brazil would be fantastic even without the girl. But just know that a whirlwind romance with a smokin’ hot brazilian has left more than a handful of gringo’s heartbroken and out quit a bit of money. Think with your head (not the one in your pants )

  • #183473

    evanston52
    Member

    Condor has some great deals! I think you`ll connect in Frankfurt and Salvador

  • #183484

    Kevinferno
    Member

    Just frig it and fly over in the hopes of giving her a proper rogering using your best sign language. If that fails go to Rio, sip acai, and patrol the Zona Sul beaches for talent. You’ll have a fun time either way!

  • #183522

    Cici
    Member

    [QUOTE=Fortaleza-Newf] Just frig it and fly over in the hopes of giving her a proper rogering using your best sign language. If that fails go to Rio, sip acai, and patrol the Zona Sul beaches for talent. You’ll have a fun time either way![/QUOTE]
    If i were single i would fly here with the full intention of doing both! …but as was said earlier learn some portuguese!!

  • #183527

    Lise
    Member

    Thanks for the Positive replies,
    I am also looking at buying one of these Ectaco translation devices, all be it a bit pricey at 300-400£ but could be worth it

  • #183538

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    Don’t forget to buy Ray’s books, he claims they are useful and teach you how to pick up women.

  • #183545

    majazac
    Member

    [QUOTE=Zummbot]You’ll find the best airline prices with TAM.

    Be careful. Think why would a woman from Brazil (who is probably very attractive considering you’re willing to fly out there after only speaking to her for 4 weeks) would want to meet a guy in the UK. Would it have anything to do with money? Probably… [/QUOTE] And/or a passport….

  • #183555

    Kevinferno
    Member

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk] Thanks for the Positive replies, I am also looking at buying one of these Ectaco translation devices, all be it a bit pricey at 300-400£ but could be worth it
    [/QUOTE]
    Those Ectaco devices are complete crap trust me. Download Rosetta Stone using Bit Torrent. That is the best method and free if you know where to look!

  • #183564

    Tedichi
    Member

    Ya Ray can definitely help you understand the right type of girl for you, even in Columbia if that’s of interest to you.

  • #183572

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=Zummbot] Think with your head (not the one in your pants )[/QUOTE] Yes very wise if you are a nun. I used the wrong head for many decisions in Brazil. Cost me a bunch, but had a hell of a good time! Cheers!

  • #183624

    Lise
    Member

    Well Stuff it!, i just booked with British airways for the 8th october,, i plan to stay in Rio for a couple of days and Juiz de Flora,,,

  • #183625

    Kevinferno
    Member

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk] Well Stuff it!, i just booked with British airways for the 8th october,,  i plan to stay in Rio for a couple of days and Juiz de Flora,,,
    [/QUOTE]
    Good show! This is how it starts for many you know. You may get hooked on this place!Fortaleza-Newf2011-09-29 17:07:21

  • #183626

    My Bank Account just went up US$500.00 Big%20smileKeep it coming, guys !!!! ClapRay2011-09-29 17:23:25

  • #183630

    Tedichi
    Member

    Juiz de Fora? really…?

    Well there is a total difference between those cities, haha! I have to say hopefully it works out for you there, and fast. That place is so boring, I had to spend a month there a few years ago, it’s full of hills, a long long stretch of bus traffic, supposedly the longest in Brazil. (I don’t recall exactly its significants)..
    Best of luck to you on your journey!
  • #183636

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Ray] My Bank Account just went up US$500.00 [/QUOTE]

  • #183675

    Lise
    Member

    Juiz de fora, is where my girl lives so thats why i am heading there,
    is someone gona let me in on the $500 joke?

  • #183679

    Tedichi
    Member

    It’s not worth your time, and you can catch a bus to Juiz de Fora, rather than renting a car, I hope you learn portuguese…

  • #183681

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk] Juiz de fora, is where my girl lives so thats why i am heading there,  is someone gona let me in on the  $500 joke?
    [/QUOTE]
    Means he wants us to believe that he’s just sold 2 1/2 of his books on “how to meat chicks in Brazil”.

  • #183692

    Tedichi
    Member

    AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • #183722

    Anonymous

    I hope you receive a great “cházinho” !
    haha

  • #183993

    Gilmour
    Member

    Juiz de “Flora”/FORA – hahahah. Man oh man, when you get there, you’re going to see so many hot girls that you are going to lose your mind. Just walk down Rio Branco, and try to avoid other people running into you while you look at the college girls that pass by. Nice city.
    But original poster.. really.. careful with meeting women/anybody on the internet.Seems like everyone has already forgotten the Gringo who got robbed and burned with gasoline. I think that was around 2006 – 2007. I think the woman exhorted something like $50,000 USD from him and then then boyfriend killed him.
    Or the recent case, a Brazilian teenager who lives in Scandinavia travels to Brazil to find out that the girl is a pre-teen girl and he goes back home. I think I saw that on Rede Record.
    Juiz de FLora OuchI think has like 2-3 murders a month only, but I wouldn’t like to be one of them. Just be careful.

  • #183999

    Lise
    Member

    This is one thing that has been on my mind (Other girls) How will i feel about this girl i have chatting with when we meet in person ? All the chatting for weeks just might go out the window :( I hope not but if history is anything to go by i will probably have a different girl by the end of my trip..

  • #184003

    Kevinferno
    Member

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk] This is one thing that has been on my mind (Other girls) How will i feel about this girl i have chatting with when we meet in person ?  All the chatting for weeks just might go out the window :(   I hope not but if history is anything to go by i will probably have a different girl by the end of my trip..
    [/QUOTE]
    Dude,
    Trust me this place is not the UK. If it doesn’t go well take my previous advice. 100% good time guaranteed. You won’t regret your trip either way. All the best!

  • #184004

    Gilmour
    Member

    Neil in UK — How old are you?
    Well, if it doesn’t work out with the girl, you can always go to Sayonara or K-2 (those are places that Ray would LOVE to visit, I’m sure– hint hint Ray). But if you like european style dance clubs, they have Priviledge, but I’m not sure if they are open this time of year. I’m sure they have some more than just Privyledge there. A traveling salesman once told me that the Constantine hotel (one of the better hotels in the city) keeps a catalog of women if that’s your deal.
    There’s tons of hot women walking down the street every day that I’m sure are going to look back at you when you look at them (unless you are ugly). Dead
    Ah é — you HAVE to go to Chimarron. It’s an all-you-can-eat steakhouse that’s owned by one of the big chain supermarkets in this region. The quality is as good as the good ones in Belo Horizonte (Porcão), but the price is around R$ 50 around lunchtime, so it’s about 40% less $$$.
    Avoid Mezza (downtown) and Bob’s (at the mall)– they are total rip offs to eat at.
    Be sure to jot down the names of these places in case it doesn’t work out with the girl. But you don’t know, and that’s the fun gamble part of it all.
    And I hope you speak Portuguese.Almost nobody speaks English in Juiz de Fora, just the American exchange students at the Federal University, and the mormon dudes in the white shirts and black pants.

  • #184007

    Gilmour
    Member

    When I talk to my wife about selling the business and moving back to Juiz de Fora, she invents 10,0000 excuses on why we shouldn’t move back there from climate, to prices, to lack of housing (all complete BS). I know WHAT it really is: the proportion of women to men is astronomically high.

  • #184086

    Lise
    Member

    For the record i’m a spritley 44, thanks for the tips and info, i have decided to take my lap top so will have access to all the good advice on here. I know its better to travel light but i need it for work any way. Just looking forward to a great adventure, i havent done anything like this for a good few years now:)
    As for my plans we are staying in rio for a couple of days first, then moving on to JF, so if things dont go to well i just might stay in rio on my own,,,

  • #184088

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    Good idea. Juiz de Fora is not really a touristy place anyway, although it boast one of the best universities in the counrty. It also boasts the first hidroelectric plant in south america, which is now a museum.

  • #184089

    Gilmour
    Member

    I curious to see if she’s going to try to get you out of JF to a “quieter” place to try to reduce the competition. If not, she should “she’ll be all over you like white on rice” not wanting you to talk to any other girls. – I do believe. Well, I’ll be curious to hear how it turns out.
    I like Rio, but it’s gigantic there. From Rio to Belo Horizonte in the northerly direction, I prefer Juiz de Fora. There’s not a lot of crime there, and there isn’t a lot of people hitting you up for money there either like Rio.

  • #184126

    Anonymous

    go in eyes wide open and not all loved up its good advice and maybe your find a good one

  • #184873

    Gilmour
    Member

    naaah… I think he should expect the worst – that she only sent the very BEST of the BEST photos, and she’s really a dog. That way, if she’s just “normal” it won’t be a let down for him. Out of curiosity from this thread, I signed up for BrazilCupid to see the JF quality. Most of the best looking girls hadn’t been active for some time. Most of the average –> feinhas were recent -> active users.

  • #184961

    Lise
    Member

    Hello Gentlemen, The girl i came to meet wasnt for me, i made my mind up on the first day as to not waist precious time. I hooked up with 3 other English guys who introduced me to the Balcony Bar at Copacabana, ive had a couple of wild nights there and spent a small fortune, the weather is bad at the moment so looking to go on a couple of excursions to fill the day. I am now gathering my thoughts and thinking how to meet a (normal) girl Rio, Does anyone have any info on what bars if any do the Non Hookers hang out?? Cheers

  • #184964

    majazac
    Member

    Go to Nuth (Barra)..or if your finances are taking a hit, Lapa. Bubbles2011-10-12 09:48:50

  • #184967

    Milenko
    Participant

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk]Hello Gentlemen,

    The girl i came to meet wasnt for me, i made my mind up on the first day as to not waist precious time.

    [/QUOTE]
    That’s why I hate using dating sites, to save me from embarassing moments like this. Nothing beats good old fashioned face to face meet ups.

  • #184977

    Kevinferno
    Member

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk] Hello Gentlemen,

     

    The girl i came to meet wasnt for me, i made my mind up on the first day as to not waist precious time.

     

    I hooked up with 3 other English guys who introduced me to the Balcony Bar at Copacabana, ive had a couple of wild nights there and spent a small fortune, the weather is bad at the moment so looking to go on a couple of excursions to fill the day.

     

    I am now gathering my thoughts and thinking how to meet a (normal) girl Rio, Does anyone have any info on what bars if any do the Non Hookers hang out??

     

    Cheers

    [/QUOTE]
    To meet ‘normal’ girls on limited time I don’t think I would stay in Rio. Anywhere but really as you need to put the time in there. No normal girl in her right mind would be caught dead at the Balcony Bar or most of the bars around Copacabana. You could try Lapa?

  • #184997

    Gilmour
    Member

    THAT bad huh?Was it really a case of picture fraud?
    I think it depends on whatcha want. Spain and Portugal during holiday time are excellent for meeting women (at least back in my day). Most of them are from the same country as you, so no language issues there.
    At least where I live, there are girls that put out quick, but the better looking ones– no way.

  • #185482

    evanston52
    Member

    How is th OP getting on??

  • #185496

    Paulo
    Participant

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk] Does anyone have any info on what bars if any do the Non Hookers hang out[/QUOTE]

  • #185619

    evogel
    Member

    I am using Brazil Cupid right now but have not put a paid membership yet lol. I did have a paid member message me today and they did not have a picture on their profile. I asked why you are a paid member and no picture…… and they closed the chat on me. Whatever lol.

  • #185863

    smb2013
    Member

    Four weeks is not enough time to get to know anybody. However, since this is your first trip to Brazil, just enjoy the vacation as one of the other poster’s said. Go ahead and meet the young lady but stay in a hotel not at her place…. at least not for your first visit… She may be a nice girl. But it’s imperative you do more due diligence on her. I would stick with the tourist places and don’t allow her to lead you to any place that your gut says is not safe. As you can imagine, it takes time getting to know a person. So take your time. Don’t rush. Enjoy your trip. You’ll have fun. Always keep your eyes open though. Larry

  • #185902

    Lise
    Member

    Back home now and taking stock of my adventure to rio, I’l never travel to meet a one girl again, i wish i had wrote to a whole bunch of girls and just met them all for lunch to see if theres any chemistry.
    I dont think i seen Rio at its best as the weather was terrible, but on and off i had a good vacation, i met some great guys who made my trip enjoyable. As for a place for a none Portuguse speaking Gringo to meet normal women, its not at all easy to say the least.
    On the positive side i did meet a girl who i am in contact with, so maybe something will come off it who knows

  • #185910

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk] Back home now and taking stock of my adventure to rio,¬† I’l never travel to meet a one girl again, i wish i had wrote to a whole bunch of girls and just met them all for lunch to see if theres any chemistry.[/QUOTE]

    Great idea!

  • #185933

    evogel
    Member

    My appraoch to brazil cupid is ALOT of patience and time. I am in no rush and i want to talk to as many girls as I can. I did skype with a smoking hot brazillian who speaks great english and she works hard. Now …. seems a bit too good to be true so again … patience and time. I also make sure to tell the women I am looking for friendship and this takes the pressure off and I would say most likely will make you more desirable anyhow. I am 30 years old decent looking and fit. I think if I go to brazil I may have the time of my life? I think i could do like American women do to men…. play hard to get and jsut have fun ?? Wow this is a whole new perspective for a white guy from U.S.

  • #186080

    evogel
    Member

    Ok now I thought this was the bes place to immideatly come with this info. Please I want someones feedback on this really really odd situation. I will probably not ever talk to her again but I must say it is an experience worth writing about. So i am on Brazil cupid and I sent a “interested” button on a really good looking woman who spoke good English. She sent me a message and we started chatting and we were getting along really great. She then proceeded to invite me on skype so we could talk with microphones. We chatted and she turned on her web cam ….. wasn;t anything seductive we were talking. I noticed she was sipping on some wine and looked a little tipsy. She proceeded to tell me she worked for the government and did alot of errands for her boss. She seemed smart so I am thinking ok sweet and beautiful. Ok now I am beginning to understand the magic some of these women have. Now on with the story of how she said she had to sleep “it was 1 am in BH and she said she had to get up at 6” and said she would like to talk again, Today. Now I bought a web cam which i told her I would do then arrived at the correct time. She never showed, I even left a message saying I would show up a half hour late. No show. hmmmm now we have about 1001 possibilities. To add to the weirdness, as of this mornign she had removed her profile on brazil cupid. Very odd behavior.

  • #186081

    Kevinferno
    Member

    [QUOTE=cobrakhan5] Ok now I thought this was the bes place to immideatly come with this info. Please I want someones feedback on this really really odd situation. I will probably not ever talk to her again but I must say it is an experience worth writing about.

     

    So i am on Brazil cupid and I sent a “interested” button on a really good looking woman who spoke good English. She sent me a message and we started chatting and we were getting along really great. She then proceeded to invite me on skype so we could talk with microphones. We chatted and she turned on her web cam ….. wasn;t anything seductive we were talking. I noticed she was sipping on some wine and looked a little tipsy. She proceeded to tell me she worked for the government and did alot of errands for her boss. She seemed smart so I am thinking ok sweet and beautiful.

     

    Ok now I am beginning to understand the magic some of these women have.

     

    Now on with the story of how she said she had to sleep “it was 1 am in BH and she said she had to get up at 6” and said she would like to talk again, Today. Now I bought a web cam which i told her I would do then arrived at the correct time. She never showed, I even left a message saying I would show up a half hour late. No show. hmmmm now we have about 1001 possibilities.

     

    To add to the weirdness, as of this mornign she had removed her profile on brazil cupid. Very odd behavior.

    [/QUOTE]
    you are honestly looking for some direction with this?

  • #186082

    evogel
    Member

    Did i say direction? I said it is interesting story =) Feedback doesnt mean direction =)

  • #186172

    Lise
    Member

    Just had a call from my banks fraud dpt,, it seems i am still drawing cash from the hsbc atm in Rio,
    Strange as i have been back home for 5 days

  • #186180

    Eliana FB
    Member

    Dont get too put off by the hookers and obsessed by trying to find where the non-hookers hang out, often the line is blurred. Many girls on the game get married and leave brazil every year.

  • #186181

    Lise
    Member

    Playedwell,
    Thats very interesting, i had wondered if this did actualy happen, but i guess nobody will admit they have done it,,

  • #186186

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk]Playedwell,
    Thats very interesting, i had wondered if this did actualy happen, but i guess nobody will admit they have done it,,

    [/QUOTE] There was a member of Parliament whose wife from Rio was working in London as a call girl.LOLGreatBallsoFire2011-10-24 10:11:15

  • #186227

    Micklous
    Member

    [QUOTE]

    To meet ‘normal’ girls on limited time I don’t think I would stay in Rio. Anywhere but really as you need to put the time in there. No normal girl in her right mind would be caught dead at the Balcony Bar or most of the bars around Copacabana. You could try Lapa? [/QUOTE] dead?

  • #186413

    evogel
    Member

    Well I have gotten tired of Brazil Cupid pretty fast. I think it is better just to go and meet people. The internet thing makes it rough sometimes.

  • #187843

    evogel
    Member

    Ok so far as Brazil Cupid, these are my final thoughts. Brazil Cupid has many lovely looking ladies and is a decent place to make some contacts. I can say I have chatted with roughly 20-30 women off there but find that many of the better looking women can string people along a bit. Just my experience. I also found that I was getting many interests from older women ….. which I dunno what to think about all that. I am 30 and women in there 40’s messaging me … i found that different. So I say it would be worth a shot to use this site, although do not be surprised if you are the center of attention until they see they got a hook, then continue to pursue other prospects while saying I really like you. When I get time …… hahaha…… I just don;t play like that, you do what you say your going to do or trust will not build. So I will definitely keep these things in mind when traveling to Brazil. Watch out for the ones who can;t keep their word =)even in the small things.

  • #187852

    Paulo
    Participant

    [QUOTE=cobrakhan5] I also found that I was getting many interests from older women ….. which I dunno what to think about all that. I am 30 and women in there 40’s messaging me … [/QUOTE]
    Brazil is well known for its coroas. 40s are the younger ones.

  • #199979

    Language learning makes a good connection (love)

    Get yourself some language books and start learning !
    I posted a thread earlier with a bunch of resource to get you on your way!
    Check them out !

    post.trip2012-02-11 18:20:58

  • #203033

    pmcalif
    Member

    [QUOTE=neil-in-uk]
    I have been chatting with a woman on MSN for about 4 weeks now, i dont know portuguese and her no English as we use translation. She seems decent and works as a math teacher in Mias gras (FJ) i think her town is called, it a couple hours from Rio

    I am going to go and meet her seconed week in October,i need a good airline flying from uk to Rio?

    Also i have work commitments so dont want to be away much longer than a week to ten days, not long but at least we will get to meet and i will see brazil for the first time.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated

    [/QUOTE] Man, Mias Grass WTF ??? Get some ear-plugs, because you are gonna be waken-up every day at 4 am by roosters. Learn some portuguese, come to Brazil and find some pussy yourself, use internet for more productive things, e.g. work. But if you are up to get some psychotic bitch from fazenda, lets go ahead. But then don’t tell that you have not been warned !!!

  • #261624

    bowker
    Member

    Its a great way to meet bad bitches but good girls do go clubbing too so idk depends how u act

  • #263155

    asdf
    Member

    Gawd, I started reading this thread and was just slapping my head at the train wreck that surely lay ahead… as it turned out too true. Why would anyone ever travel so far for someone they’ve never met?? Glad the OP had a good holiday in the end so not a total loss, but boy it could have been so much worse.

    Enjoyed reading some of the other comments though. ;)
  • #263162

    Kathy2012
    Participant

    Hehe, that guy has a story to tell.

  • #264586

    Juni
    Member

    I met my fiance on Brazil Cupid.

    Funnily enough she was one of the hot ones where a shy guy like me thinks “i wont even waste my time, she wont reply”. Yet she contacted me.
    I spoke to 4 or 5 before her, wasnt into the whole translator thing and i wouldnt chat outside brazil cupid unless they had a webcam.
    2 of them were genuine and we talked like friends, 1 just wanted to go on camera for “fun”… i didnt complain of course.
    And then i got more and more involved with my fiance, skyping pretty much every night.
    I paid for her to come over here for 2 weeks, had a great time together then i went there for a holiday twice. (she lives with her family)
    People might think im crazy for paying her to come over, but its safer for me and it just felt right at the time. luckily it worked out.
    Though she lives in manaus and its a different world completely to here.
    Brazil cupid probably works as much as any other site, its all about getting lucky. I had lots of messages every day from people who couldnt speak english. probably hoping i had money
  • #264587

    815
    Member

    [QUOTE=nickyme]

    People might think im crazy for paying her to come over, but its safer for me and it just felt right at the time. luckily it worked out.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you have the means, it’s not crazy at all. Crazier might actually be going to Brazil blindly and risking a multitude of fates.
  • #264625

    graham
    Participant

    do not know about Brasil cupid, but I met my wife on-line. we dated between countres for about 1 1/2 years, then got married. 11 years later I sometimes wonder how I got so lucky.

    although, I am glad we don’t live in Manaus, no offense.
  • #264631

    hoganti
    Member

    [QUOTE=Grads]do not know about Brasil cupid, but I met my wife on-line. we dated between countres for about 1 1/2 years, then got married. 11 years later I sometimes wonder how I got so lucky.

    although, I am glad we don’t live in Manaus, no offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    11 years? man, you were an internet dating pioneer! AOL chat rooms? lol
  • #264633

    815
    Member

    [QUOTE=hpeak13][QUOTE=Grads]do not know about Brasil cupid, but I met my wife on-line. we dated between countres for about 1 1/2 years, then got married. 11 years later I sometimes wonder how I got so lucky.

    although, I am glad we don’t live in Manaus, no offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    11 years? man, you were an internet dating pioneer! AOL chat rooms? lol

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL
    I wonder if anyone has pulled any tail from Gringoes.com? Tongue
  • #264635

    graham
    Participant

    …exactamente

  • #264636

    Eliana FB
    Member

    pulled any tail !! LOL

  • #264648

    815
    Member

    [QUOTE=frank4000]on gringoes I doubt. Most of the women on here I assume are already spoken for.
    [/QUOTE]

    That doesn’t always stop ’em WinkLOL
  • #269489

    doctorlili
    Member

    Not much going on here lately, hein? We have to regurgitate old romance threads.

    What’s up with Brazil or Gringos.com, where’s all the romance gone?
    Anyone know what ever happened with the young chap visiting his Skype namorada in Frade?
  • #269490

    agri2001
    Participant

    Squid..after what you’ve been through, in your romantic life, you seem to be a gluten for punishment.

  • #269503

    doctorlili
    Member

    what’s a “gluten for punishment”?

  • #20183

    pbenstead
    Member

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