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  • #124375

    Morganjo
    Member

    Having lived in the country for some time now, I find it really surprising that whoever critices razil i n this forum for whatsoever reason will get a huge number of very defensive aswers. Typically, if person X is criticisig living on Braxil, persons A, B, C, D etc. will say “why did you come here, go home”, no matter what the reson of critisism is. I am originally from a Norther European county. I have good job and private life back home and came to Brazil out of curiosity to see how life would be here. My observations so far: 1. Very inefficient publiuc and private sector; 2. For locals, long hours, low pay (expats are different); 3. high risk country (robbings etc); 4. unbelievably steep class differences; 5. lacking infrastructure; 6. High prices for low quality products. On the psitive side, most of the locals are very happy and positive personalities. Family relationships are being held in great values. However, those who know how much better things could be havin lived abroad, are a lttle more realistic. Aside from happy personalities and beatiful nature, there is nothing good in this country. Corruption, powerty, pollution, crime, violence. Before you criticise me, note that I have lived in 7 different countries in Europe, Asia and America and visited more than 50 countries. I’ve been around. What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids.. If my company would not be paying big bucks for working here, we would be on the first flight back home. Things are just so bad here.

  • #124379

    acampos
    Member

    [QUOTE=pulkkmi]

    Having lived in the country for some time now, I find it really surprising that whoever critices razil i n this forum for whatsoever reason will get a huge number of very defensive aswers. Typically, if person X is criticisig living on Braxil, persons A, B, C, D etc. will say “why did you come here, go home”, no matter what the reson of critisism is.

    I am originally from a Norther European county. I have good job and private life back home and came to Brazil out of curiosity to see how life would be here. My observations so far:
    1. Very inefficient publiuc and private sector;
    2. For locals, long hours, low pay (expats are different);
    3. high risk country (robbings etc);
    4. unbelievably steep class differences;
    5. lacking infrastructure;
    6. High prices for low quality products.
    On the psitive side, most of the locals are very happy and positive personalities. Family relationships are being held in great values. However, those who know how much better things could be havin lived abroad, are a lttle more realistic.
    Aside from happy personalities and beatiful nature, there is nothing good in this country. Corruption, powerty, pollution, crime, violence. Before you criticise me, note that I have lived in 7 different countries in Europe, Asia and America and visited more than 50 countries. I’ve been around.
    What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids..
    If my company would not be paying big bucks for working here, we would be on the first flight back home. Things are just so bad here.

    [/QUOTE]
    You have provided an honest view of Brazil. It is not cheap due to the high interest rates which brings the speculators to buy the real and the high tax structure. Brazilians pay dearly for crappy cars due to the high taxes. I can buy a Toyota Corolla in California for $13,000 new while in Brazil this car will cost you over $40,000. Milk? Gas? Both about five bucks a gallon in Brazil. Nearly half that in the States.

  • #124388

    jonathand
    Member

    Car prices aren’t really such a shock for us Brits…we’ve always been screwed by high car prices. We’re always pissed off that we pay about double the price that people in the U.S.A. pay for the same car. Semi-novos in Brazil are greatly over-priced though Confused

  • #124397

    gatinha
    Member

    [QUOTE=globetrotter] Car prices aren’t really such a shock for us Brits…we’ve always been screwed by high car prices.¬†We’re always pissed off that we pay about double the price that people in the U.S.A. pay for the same car.

     

    Semi-novos in Brazil are greatly over-priced though Confused

    [/QUOTE]
    Yeah Mr. Globetrotter? Try Denmark, the only country in the world where the car prices are MUCH more than in Brazil! But then again, the taxes go directly back into the government/welfare with no corruption (but a lot of waste)
    The used market for luxury cars seem to be a bit better priced than the “normal” cars.

  • #124398

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=pulkkmi] 6. High prices for low quality products. What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids.. [/QUOTE] Everything I have bought in Brazil works fine. But as I am not an engineer I couldn’t judge the quality, but my TV, DVD, cooker all look the same as the ones I had in the UK on the outside at least! Give one example of paying 3-5 times more? For what? The middle classes where I am have a better standard of living than in the UK (where you need to be a company director just to buy a small terrace house these days). And although car prices are rather high (especially secondhand) they do retain a high resale value, so all is not lost. To just pile up a list of a countries deficiencies without giving any specific examples is a liitle flimsy and for what purpose?

  • #124400

    PEARLYGURL
    Member

    Have you thought about moving to Joao Pessoa?

  • #124403

    sahara
    Member

    Hyenaeatpeople: Post deleted for being offensive.

  • #124404

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    Its more like ridiculously high prices for ok quality products, when it should be affordable prices for ok+ standards.

  • #124407

    medrama
    Member

    [QUOTE=dirtbox]Its more like ridiculously high prices for ok quality products, when it should be affordable prices for ok+ standards.

    [/QUOTE] I totally agree with you, specially when it is compared with the United States for instance. It is a day light robbery…too bad!

  • #124485

    acampos
    Member

    [QUOTE=SolMilreu][QUOTE=dirtbox]Its more like ridiculously high prices for ok quality products, when it should be affordable prices for ok+ standards.
    [/QUOTE]

    I totally agree with you, specially when it is compared with the United States for instance. It is a day light robbery…too bad![/QUOTE]LOL
    Every trip I make I bring a bunch of useful hard to find stuff. My German Neighbor was amazed when I gave him a nice modern can opener.
    On the bright side Brazil tends to have a major crisis every six years or so. The internal real debt has been ballooning due to the high interest rates and eventually we should see the real start to slip.
    If we get back to three reais and higher from a financial point of view Brazil will feel more like Argentina where you can get a liter if Brama for under 90 cents American. Beer in Brazil costs about double due to the taxes. Brama exports tax-free and so does Ford where in Argentina and Chile you can buy an Ecosport for about half the price it sells for in Brazil.Confused
    LOL

  • #124493

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=Guinness]Have you thought about moving to Joao Pessoa?[/QUOTE]ClapClapClapClapClap

  • #124510

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=Guinness]Have you thought about moving to Joao Pessoa?[/QUOTE] I will guess that that was aimed at me. I am very happy in Goias, but should I ever think of moving then Joao Pessoa sound like a great place to move to. It sometimes seems from comments on this forum that it is the only great place to move to. The negativity of threads like this does tend to annoy me. I have been warmly welcomed here in Brazil and the fact that everybody occasionally has to face the beaurocratic merry go round, or pay somewhat over the odds for imported cameras, mobile phones and games consoles seems a ridiculously shallow complaint compared to the sheer pleasure of being here. delco2009-07-20 20:49:22

  • #124517

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]

    and the fact that everybody occasionally has to face the beaurocratic merry go round, or pay somewhat over the odds for imported cameras, mobile phones and games consoles seems a ridiculously shallow complaint compared to the sheer pleasure of being here. [/QUOTE]
    Practicalities aside.
    That is an understandable perspective, but I for one like my shallow games console.
    Why dont you send me 2500R for a ps3? Its my birthday next month : )

  • #124523

    gatinha
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco] [QUOTE=Guinness]Have you thought about moving to Joao Pessoa?[/QUOTE]

    I will guess that that was aimed at me.  I am very happy in Goias, but should I ever think of moving then Joao Pessoa sound like a great place to move to.  It sometimes seems from comments on this forum that it is the only great place to move to.  The negativity of threads like this does tend to annoy me.  I have been warmly welcomed here in Brazil and the fact that everybody occasionally has to face the beaurocratic merry go round, or pay somewhat over the odds for imported cameras, mobile phones and games consoles seems a ridiculously shallow complaint compared to the sheer pleasure of being here. [/QUOTE]
    Preach it delco!!
    Joao Pessoa sounds like such a great place to move to because there is massive amounts of JP marketing on this forum…apparently a group of people very actively believe in it as the Mecca of Brazil…
    In fact I have heard that when JP’ers are abroad that the pray in the direction of JP

  • #124525

    Gianni
    Member

    On sao paulo I find everthing to be expensive.. Otherwise unless you came here for shopping, brazil is reasonable considering it’s natural beauty which I remind you is priceless..

  • #124529

    medrama
    Member

    [QUOTE=pulkkmi] Having lived in the country for some time now, I find it really surprising that whoever critices razil i n this forum for whatsoever reason will get a huge number of very defensive aswers. Typically, if person X is criticisig living on Braxil, persons A, B, C, D etc. will say “why did you come here, go home”, no matter what the reson of critisism is. I am originally from a Norther European county. I have good job and private life back home and came to Brazil out of curiosity to see how life would be here. My observations so far: 1. Very inefficient publiuc and private sector; 2. For locals, long hours, low pay (expats are different); 3. high risk country (robbings etc); 4. unbelievably steep class differences; 5. lacking infrastructure; 6. High prices for low quality products. On the psitive side, most of the locals are very happy and positive personalities. Family relationships are being held in great values. However, those who know how much better things could be havin lived abroad, are a lttle more realistic. Aside from happy personalities and beatiful nature, there is nothing good in this country. Corruption, powerty, pollution, crime, violence. Before you criticise me, note that I have lived in 7 different countries in Europe, Asia and America and visited more than 50 countries. I’ve been around. What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids.. If my company would not be paying big bucks for working here, we would be on the first flight back home. Things are just so bad here. [/QUOTE I was born here in Brazil and since I hold an Italian citizenship, I had the chance to live in Europe and travel to many other countries. I have to admit that you are completely right and even though I have a positive attitude towards life and have a good life here, it is impossible not to compare and to close my eyes to these problems. Most of my friend who have never been abroad do not understand my feelings and I keep my thoughts to myself to avoid discussions. I also were lucky to work in an American company here for 10 years and now this company was sold to a Brazilian group…needless to say the differences. In your opinion, which country is the best to live, considering people, clime and development?

  • #124532

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=ToVoltando] [QUOTE=delco] [QUOTE=Guinness]Have you thought about moving to Joao Pessoa?[/QUOTE]

    I will guess that that was aimed at me. I am very happy in Goias, but should I ever think of moving then Joao Pessoa sound like a great place to move to. It sometimes seems from comments on this forum that it is the only great place to move to. The negativity of threads like this does tend to annoy me. I have been warmly welcomed here in Brazil and the fact that everybody occasionally has to face the beaurocratic merry go round, or pay somewhat over the odds for imported cameras, mobile phones and games consoles seems a ridiculously shallow complaint compared to the sheer pleasure of being here. [/QUOTE]
    Preach it delco!!
    Joao Pessoa sounds like such a great place to move to because there is massive amounts of JP marketing on this forum...apparently a group of people very actively believe in it as the Mecca of Brazil…
    In fact I have heard that when JP’ers are abroad that the pray in the direction of JP [/QUOTE] I’m not sure it is marketing, I think we just try to post positivestuff about the city we live in, Kiteflyer, tamashin and I have allspent a great deal of time in Brazil and have decided this is the bestplace to settle so why be negative about the the city.
    We did notice that our joy at finding a place we love to live got up afew peoples noses so we rubber it in a little (or a lot if we got areaction).
    I think if you search “Joao Pessoa” you’ll find other have mentioned itfar more than us recently, so while I’m happy to claim some credit forhelping to get the city on the Gringoes.com map (there was very littleabout Joao Pessoa on this board when I joined), other now seem to becarrying the torch forward.
    Just think of how different this board would be if everyone waxedlyrically about the place they lived instead of going on about how badthe crime is, or how hard it is to deal with the authorities etc….
    I will let you into a little secret, there is a downside to living here and that is it get dark early all year around, but the bright smiles on everyone’s faces makes up for that somewhatSmileLOL

  • #124539

    Xpert1
    Member

    [QUOTE=SolMilreu][QUOTE=pulkkmi]

    1. Very inefficient publiuc and private sector;
    2. For locals, long hours, low pay (expats are different);
    3. high risk country (robbings etc);
    4. unbelievably steep class differences;
    5. lacking infrastructure;
    6. High prices for low quality products.
    On the psitive side, most of the locals are very happy and positive personalities. Family relationships are being held in great values. However, those who know how much better things could be havin lived abroad, are a lttle more realistic.

    [/QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]
    I wonder if the strong importance placed on family and the seemingly low priority placed on overall society in brasil might be linked.
    Someone wise was explaining to me that there is a continium of values, from invididualism to family-ism, and brasil is definitely at one end of the scale, family is everything to a brasilian.
    of course here i am talking in gross generlisations!
    But if your family is the most important thing to your whole society, then the other things that possibly dont effect your family are likely to be less of a priority.
    So for example, brasilians seem to care less about dropped litter in public spaces than europeans do, but in contrast they keep their family homes super clean – because family is more important to them than society.
    Europeans on the other hand seem to place almost the opposite priority, dropping litter which effects no one personally, but society as a whole is not acceptable.
    On the same kind of logic, corruption and nepotism can be quite beneficial to a family, corruption allows family members to help family members get things done quickly or escape from punishment, and nepotism keeps the family in good jobs – but both things have a negative impact on society overall.
    It seems to me that the strong family power in brasil is actually one of the things that is hampering progress on many issues that brasil faces as a society, but no one puts a priority on society, as it justs their direct family that they care about.

  • #124544

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    Thats a good observation of something I have thought about myself.
    In contrast to family life in northern Europe ( I imagine southern Europe to probably be different) I would say it must be nice to be in a Brasilian family.
    I mean from what I have seen here you will never see a grandmother put into a home and forgotten about or your parents kicking you out of home just because you turn 18, there is more respect for the older generations here and more support for the younger ones.
    Maybe that is related to the difficulties of living in some places but I actually like to believe that is a cultural difference passed on from south Europe.
    I dont see the nepotism here as something that Brasil needs if it wants to create a balanced society though. All it will do is make some people angry because they feel like they have less opportunities and they will resort to crime.
    Having said that I just saw this from the bbc.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/8160052.stm
    dirtbox2009-07-21 13:26:34

  • #124555

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco][QUOTE=pulkkmi] 6. High prices for low quality products. What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids.. [/QUOTE] Everything I have bought in Brazil works fine. But as I am not an engineer I couldn’t judge the quality, but my TV, DVD, cooker all look the same as the ones I had in the UK on the outside at least! Give one example of paying 3-5 times more? For what? The middle classes where I am have a better standard of living than in the UK (where you need to be a company director just to buy a small terrace house these days). And although car prices are rather high (especially secondhand) they do retain a high resale value, so all is not lost. To just pile up a list of a countries deficiencies without giving any specific examples is a liitle flimsy and for what purpose? [/QUOTE] The equivalent of where you live in the UK is a small town in the middle of Wales, where a terrace house would sell for ¬£40,000, which is well within the reach of just about anyone, not just company directors. Electronics are mostly 3-5 times the cost in the US, and at least 2-3 times what it costs in the UK. The purpose of the post is to point out the downside and see how we can mitigate these downsides. Pretending a problem doesn’t exist just because it’s an inconvenient truth doesn’t do anyone any favours. My own Brazilian wife is torn between her family connections in Brazil and the far higher quality of life and lower costs in the UK. For many readers of this site, these are real and important issues they have no choice but to confront. You appear to be attempting to close down the debate, just as the original poster feared would happen.

  • #124562

    gatinha
    Member

    [QUOTE=London Lad]
    [QUOTE=ToVoltando] [QUOTE=delco] [QUOTE=Guinness]Have you thought about moving to Joao Pessoa?[/QUOTE]

    I will guess that that was aimed at me.  I am very happy in Goias, but should I ever think of moving then Joao Pessoa sound like a great place to move to.  It sometimes seems from comments on this forum that it is the only great place to move to.  The negativity of threads like this does tend to annoy me.  I have been warmly welcomed here in Brazil and the fact that everybody occasionally has to face the beaurocratic merry go round, or pay somewhat over the odds for imported cameras, mobile phones and games consoles seems a ridiculously shallow complaint compared to the sheer pleasure of being here. [/QUOTE]
    Preach it delco!!
    Joao Pessoa sounds like such a great place to move to because there is massive amounts of JP marketing on this forum...apparently a group of people very actively believe in it as the Mecca of Brazil…
    In fact I have heard that when JP’ers are abroad that the pray in the direction of JP [/QUOTE] I’m not sure it is marketing, I think we just try to post positive
    stuff about the city we live in, Kiteflyer, tamashin and I have all
    spent a great deal of time in Brazil and have decided this is the best
    place to settle so why be negative about the the city.
    We did notice that our joy at finding a place we love to live got up a
    few peoples noses so we rubber it in a little (or a lot if we got a
    reaction).
    I think if you search “Joao Pessoa” you’ll find other have mentioned it
    far more than us recently, so while I’m happy to claim
    some credit for
    helping to get the city on the Gringoes.com map (there was very little
    about Joao Pessoa on this board when I joined), other now seem to be
    carrying the torch forward.
    Just think of how different this board would be if everyone waxed
    lyrically about the place they lived instead of going on about how bad
    the crime is, or how hard it is to deal with the authorities etc….
    I will let you into a little secret, there is a downside to living here and that is it get dark early all year around, but the bright smiles on everyone’s faces makes up for that somewhatSmileLOL[/QUOTE]
    I’m not implying commercial marketing, more so private “publicity” if you will
    Don’t doubt it’s a nice place, though of turning up there myself one day.
    Don’t you have evening prayer to go to with the other JPers? Which direction do you all pray in while you are in the city, Tambia Shopping or Manaira?
    All meant in good fun

  • #124563

    enchantbeau
    Member

    All I am doing is balancing the debate, not all of Brazil is like Sao Paulo, just as not all of USA is like New York or Britain like London. I really cannot see the point of living anywhere that you are unhappy in. Unless you have no choice, which is hardly the fault of anybody else, including the country you have chosen to live in and then continually berate. And the R$600 I spent on my 29″ teleplana TV is definitely not 2-3 times what it would cost in the UK nor is the 129 reals I spent on a DVD player with karoake function, so that part of the argument doesn’t hold water, does it? I appreciate a games console or Japanese digital camera are very expensive here, but they are hardly lifes necessities, are they?

  • #124564

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=London Lad]
    Just think of how different this board would be if everyone waxed lyrically about the place they lived instead of going on about how bad the crime is, or how hard it is to deal with the authorities etc….

    [/QUOTE] Now wouldn’t that make a nice change, hearing from others about how much they enjoy life here!

  • #124565

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=ToVoltando]
    Don’t you have evening prayer to go to with the other JPers? Which direction do you all pray in while you are in the city, Tambia Shopping or Manaira?
    All meant in good fun[/QUOTE]I need to be a little careful what I say here as I was threatened withCourt action for religious abandonment when I said I don’t have a God, solets just say I pray facing the sea LOL

  • #124566

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    No one is stating that they are unhappy and no one should have the false sense of entitlement to state someone else is unhappy unless the person in question states it personally.
    There are good and bad things about all places. This is a vent your frustrations section, therefore its here for reason.
    And hey man, some people who want a games console might be aspiring game designers, or tech geeks and people who like digi cameras may be aspiring photographers and artists. I know of quite a few of them.

  • #124571

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=delco]All I am doing is balancing the debate, not all of Brazil is like Sao Paulo, just as not all of USA is like New York or Britain like London. I really cannot see the point of living anywhere that you are unhappy in. Unless you have no choice, which is hardly the fault of anybody else, including the country you have chosen to live in and then continually berate. And the R$600 I spent on my 29″ teleplana TV is definitely not 2-3 times what it would cost in the UK nor is the 129 reals I spent on a DVD player with karoake function, so that part of the argument doesn’t hold water, does it? I appreciate a games console or Japanese digital camera are very expensive here, but they are hardly lifes necessities, are they?[/QUOTE]
    agreed. I don’t *really* need Sky, but I can afford the R$ 170 per month. Comparing the price of other things. R$ 2.49 for a liter of milk is hardly much more expensive than in the netherlands. I also can do without the sea view apartment in Leblon as I don’t really need it.

  • #124572

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=dirtbox]No one is stating that they are unhappy and no one should have the false sense of entitlement to state someone else is unhappy unless the person in question states it personally.

    There are good and bad things about all places. This is a vent your frustrations section, therefore its here for reason.

    And hey man, some people who want a games console might be aspiring game designers, or tech geeks and people who like digi cameras may be aspiring photographers and artists. I know of quite a few of them.
    [/QUOTE] If someone continually posts about how bad life is here, one would presume they are unhappy, fair enough surely, hardly a false sense of entitlement. As for ‘vent your frustrations, well the OP said that ‘apart from happy people and beautiful nature there is nothing good about Brazil’ this is rather different from venting a frustration and clearly deserves to be balanced by anyone who thinks otherwise. As for your third point, well that maybe so, and I understand their difficulty, it’s just for Gringoes to come to Brazil and then moan about these things seems to me a little lame. Perhaps it would help if someone could explain why a games console or top brand digital camerea is so expensive here, rather than the bland ‘it’s a rip off’.

  • #124583

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco][QUOTE=dirtbox]No one is stating that they are unhappy and no one should have the false sense of entitlement to state someone else is unhappy unless the person in question states it personally.
    There are good and bad things about all places. This is a vent your frustrations section, therefore its here for reason.
    And hey man, some people who want a games console might be aspiring game designers, or tech geeks and people who like digi cameras may be aspiring photographers and artists. I know of quite a few of them.
    [/QUOTE]

    If someone continually posts about how bad life is here, one would presume they are unhappy, fair enough surely, hardly a false sense of entitlement.

    As for ‘vent your frustrations, well the OP said that ‘apart from happy people and beautiful nature there is nothing good about Brazil’ this is rather different from venting a frustration and clearly deserves to be balanced by anyone who thinks otherwise.
    As for your third point, well that maybe so, and I understand their difficulty, it’s just for Gringoes to come to Brazil and then moan about these things seems to me a little lame. Perhaps it would help if someone could explain why a games console or top brand digital camerea is so expensive here, rather than the bland ‘it’s a rip off’.

    [/QUOTE]
    I would not confuse someone having a moan with unhappiness, especially on a section that is made forpractical issues, although I see where you are coming from with the way the OP approached it.
    There is nothing wrong with gringos pointing out ‘rip off’ prices whengringos live here, pay their taxes and contribute. Not all of us arebackpackers, some are married and are weighing up the pros and cons ofwhere to live in the future, based on their current situations.Some people also live here and call it home and have the wish to see a change as they would do so in their original country.
    I would expect foreigners living in European countries to highlightissues too and so they should if they have chosen to live theredefinitely or indefinitely.
    Why is a games console and digi camera hard to get for the averageperson in Brazil? Id like to answer that too but I cant quite pinpoint thedark forces at work who are responsible. Can you?

  • #124584

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]And the R$600 I spent on my 29″ teleplana TV is definitely not 2-3 times what it would cost in the UK nor is the 129 reals I spent on a DVD player with karoake function, so that part of the argument doesn’t hold water, does it? [/QUOTE]I just checked these prices at internet outlets and today (my search showed) they represent the very bottom end and brands of questionable quality and were w/o shipping …

  • #124585

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]

    Now wouldn’t that make a nice change, hearing from others about how much they enjoy life here![/QUOTE] Well … there are no proscriptions concerning this …

  • #124587

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    For film buffs there is a really cheap DVD brand called Lennox, its from China and its one of the few multi region dvd players on the market in Brasil.
    All the big brands keep you restricted by regions.
    I paid 99 for Lennox, he is our new house friend.
    dirtbox2009-07-21 16:18:20

  • #124589

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=DUNGA] [QUOTE=delco]And the R$600 I spent on my 29″ teleplana TV is definitely not 2-3 times what it would cost in the UK nor is the 129 reals I spent on a DVD player with karoake function, so that part of the argument doesn’t hold water, does it? [/QUOTE]I just checked these prices at internet outlets and today (my search showed) they represent the very bottom end and brands of questionable quality and were w/o shipping …

    [/QUOTE] Brands are CCE and Brittania (didn’t need anything more – and we shopped around) and they work fine after a year, even if the TV has developed the habit of showing Caminha Das Indias (I think it’s called that) every night!

  • #124590

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    I hate to be a moaning gringo but that Brittania may not last you more than a year if you are lucky. Thumbs%20Up

  • #124591

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=dirtbox]For film buffs there is a really cheap DVD brand called Lennox, its from China and its one of the few multi region dvd players on the market in Brasil.
    All the big brands keep you restricted by regions.
    I paid 99 for Lennox, he is our new house friend.
    [/QUOTE]Most DVD players have an unlock code, you can find them free on the Internet, it is very easy to do Smile

  • #124592

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    If Lennox fails me I will look into it :)
    dirtbox2009-07-21 16:41:26

  • #124603

    Kiet to
    Member

    Good news for anybody in to BlueRay, the region code for USA and Brazil is the same, (Region 1) so any players or disks brought from US will work fine. Surprisingly, we found a small video rental store in Rio that has hundreds of BlueRay titles, most imported from the US with Portuguese subtitles. They rent for the same price as regular DVDs, R$7.00 for a couple of days. Decent brand BlueRay players are still expensive in Brazil, between R$1,500 and R$2,000 whereas I bought a good Sony player in Houston recently for US$220. Should have bought a bagfull back !!!

  • #124605

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    No surprise in our neck of the woods. Several stores have a huge range of BluRay titles but then again I do live in the northeast of Brasil.

  • #124612

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=delco][QUOTE=pulkkmi]

    6. High prices for low quality products.
    What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids..

    [/QUOTE]

    Everything I have bought in Brazil works fine. But as I am not an engineer I couldn’t judge the quality, but my TV, DVD, cooker all look the same as the ones I had in the UK on the outside at least!

    Give one example of paying 3-5 times more? For what? The middle classes where I am have a better standard of living than in the UK (where you need to be a company director just to buy a small terrace house these days).
    And although car prices are rather high (especially secondhand) they do retain a high resale value, so all is not lost.
    To just pile up a list of a countries deficiencies without giving any specific examples is a liitle flimsy and for what purpose?

    [/QUOTE]

    The equivalent of where you live in the UK is a small town in the middle of Wales, where a terrace house would sell for ¬£40,000, which is well within the reach of just about anyone, not just company directors. Electronics are mostly 3-5 times the cost in the US, and at least 2-3 times what it costs in the UK. The purpose of the post is to point out the downside and see how we can mitigate these downsides. Pretending a problem doesn’t exist just because it’s an inconvenient truth doesn’t do anyone any favours. My own Brazilian wife is torn between her family connections in Brazil and the far higher quality of life and lower costs in the UK. For many readers of this site, these are real and important issues they have no choice but to confront. You appear to be attempting to close down the debate, just as the original poster feared would happen.

    [/QUOTE]
    A lot of people say that items from the States are actually cheaper. I read somewhere (possibly this thread) that people think it is cheaper to buy there (in the States) and bring back to Brasil.

  • #124613

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    Hmm, I seem to remember an old TV advert saying “It’s not Brastemp” so it must be poor quality was the implication. All my Brastemp and Brittania (Now why did I buy something called Brittania?) stuff works fine and has done for considerabley longer than a year.Confused

  • #124614

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=London Lad][QUOTE=ToVoltando] [QUOTE=delco] [QUOTE=Guinness]Have you thought about moving to Joao Pessoa?[/QUOTE]

    I will guess that that was aimed at me. I am very happy in Goias, but should I ever think of moving then Joao Pessoa sound like a great place to move to. It sometimes seems from comments on this forum that it is the only great place to move to. The negativity of threads like this does tend to annoy me. I have been warmly welcomed here in Brazil and the fact that everybody occasionally has to face the beaurocratic merry go round, or pay somewhat over the odds for imported cameras, mobile phones and games consoles seems a ridiculously shallow complaint compared to the sheer pleasure of being here. [/QUOTE]
    Preach it delco!!
    Joao Pessoa sounds like such a great place to move to because there is massive amounts of JP marketing on this forum...apparently a group of people very actively believe in it as the Mecca of Brazil…
    In fact I have heard that when JP’ers are abroad that the pray in the direction of JP [/QUOTE] I’m not sure it is marketing, I think we just try to post positivestuff about the city we live in, Kiteflyer, tamashin and I have allspent a great deal of time in Brazil and have decided this is the bestplace to settle so why be negative about the the city.
    We did notice that our joy at finding a place we love to live got up afew peoples noses so we rubber it in a little (or a lot if we got areaction).
    I think if you search “Joao Pessoa” you’ll find other have mentioned itfar more than us recently, so while I’m happy to claim some credit forhelping to get the city on the Gringoes.com map (there was very littleabout Joao Pessoa on this board when I joined), other now seem to becarrying the torch forward.
    Just think of how different this board would be if everyone waxedlyrically about the place they lived instead of going on about how badthe crime is, or how hard it is to deal with the authorities etc….
    I will let you into a little secret, there is a downside to living here and that is it get dark early all year around, but the bright smiles on everyone’s faces makes up for that somewhatSmileLOL
    [/QUOTE]
    FACT. If you do a search on Joao Pessoa you will find that it was being reported on a long time before the contributors mentioned added to the list. However, I was probably the first to report in Joao Pessoa sea greenEmbarrassed

  • #124615

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=delco][QUOTE=pulkkmi]

    6. High prices for low quality products.
    What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids..

    [/QUOTE]

    Everything I have bought in Brazil works fine. But as I am not an engineer I couldn’t judge the quality, but my TV, DVD, cooker all look the same as the ones I had in the UK on the outside at least!

    Give one example of paying 3-5 times more? For what? The middle classes where I am have a better standard of living than in the UK (where you need to be a company director just to buy a small terrace house these days).
    And although car prices are rather high (especially secondhand) they do retain a high resale value, so all is not lost.
    To just pile up a list of a countries deficiencies without giving any specific examples is a liitle flimsy and for what purpose?

    [/QUOTE]

    The equivalent of where you live in the UK is a small town in the middle of Wales, where a terrace house would sell for ¬£40,000, which is well within the reach of just about anyone, not just company directors. Electronics are mostly 3-5 times the cost in the US, and at least 2-3 times what it costs in the UK. The purpose of the post is to point out the downside and see how we can mitigate these downsides. Pretending a problem doesn’t exist just because it’s an inconvenient truth doesn’t do anyone any favours. My own Brazilian wife is torn between her family connections in Brazil and the far higher quality of life and lower costs in the UK. For many readers of this site, these are real and important issues they have no choice but to confront. You appear to be attempting to close down the debate, just as the original poster feared would happen.

    [/QUOTE]
    Ho, Juninho speaking for the many?Big%20smileLook out Prime minister! Shouldn’t that be “some” instead of “many”? How about “speaking for myself?”
    Its all relative, innit? Define “quality of life” for example and as for lower costs in the UK!!!!!Confused

  • #124616

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=dirtbox]For film buffs there is a really cheap DVD brand called Lennox, its from China and its one of the few multi region dvd players on the market in Brasil.
    All the big brands keep you restricted by regions.
    I paid 99 for Lennox, he is our new house friend.
    [/QUOTE]
    JP, Extra, Epitacio Pessoa, R$79.99.Wink

  • #124618

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=dirtbox]I hate to be a moaning gringo but that Brittania may not last you more than a year if you are lucky. Thumbs%20Up
    [/QUOTE]
    Surely if it breaks down within a year, it would still be under warrantyShocked?

  • #124629

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    Well our brittania lasted a year and half then we had to get it repaired. After that, it broke down again, at which point we decided to send it somewhere for recycling.
    Then we got a Lennox, cheaper, bulkier and Chinese with its own set of rules. Its great. So far its on 9 months.

  • #124637

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=tamashin] [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=delco][QUOTE=pulkkmi] 6 [/QUOTE] The equivalent of where you live in the UK is a small town in the middle of Wales, where a terrace house would sell for ¬£40,000, which is well within the reach of just about anyone, not just company directors. Electronics are mostly 3-5 times the cost in the US, and at least 2-3 times what it costs in the UK. The purpose of the post is to point out the downside and see how we can mitigate these downsides. Pretending a problem doesn’t exist just because it’s an inconvenient truth doesn’t do anyone any favours. My own Brazilian wife is torn between her family connections in Brazil and the far higher quality of life and lower costs in the UK. For many readers of this site, these are real and important issues they have no choice but to confront. You appear to be attempting to close down the debate, just as the original poster feared would happen. [/QUOTE]

    Ho, Juninho speaking for the many?Big%20smileLook out Prime minister! Shouldn’t that be “some” instead of “many”? How about “speaking for myself?”

    Its all relative, innit? Define “quality of life” for example and as for lower costs in the UK!!!!!Confused
    [/QUOTE] I think you’ll find many people on this site are interested and concerned at the high costs of goods in Brazil. An avid reader of this forum should know that, and no I don’t propose getting into a debate on the definition of many. In terms of quality of life, just the other night my wife mentioned the following tangible aspects of her life which help provide her with a better ‘quality of life’ than in Brazil:

    1. The food we eat is of a higher quality, a greater variety and at a lower cost than in Brazil, e.g. she likes French cheeses (some of the best cheeses are from France) which are very cheap here and Lindt chocolates. The comparable costs are 4-5 times when you can find them in Brazil. I could if time permitted give plenty more examples.
    2. Traffic – virtually none of it in Hertfordshire where we reside in the UK, and much less in London than in SP. The roads are also better quality.
    3. Crime – much less in the UK, and she doesn’t keep having to look over her shoulder and drive through red lights at night.
    4. Pollution. Due to EU emission restrictions much better everywhere in the UK, not just the London-SP comparison, but Santos v Southampton i.e. comparable sized cities.
    5. State schools – excellent local ones where we are providing a free top quality education giving our children a really good opportunity to study at a top university and have a real choice in life of where to work.
    6. Working hours – much lower in the UK where the working day typically starts at 9am, against 8am in Brazil, and finishes 5-6pmish in the UK, often 8pm or later in Brazil.
    7. Travel – the low costs and higher salries mean this can be often and we can see lots of different countries. Even our cleaner goes abroad for at least 2 weeks each year.
    8. Bureaucracy – dealing with government or local government agencies is relatively straightforward here, relatively quick and efficient. In Brazil it’s a time sapping frustrating Kafkaesque nightmare that often cannot be avoided.
    9. Parks – much more plentiful open green spaces where we are for our kids to play or for us to picnic.
    10. Houses – we tend to live in houses in the UK with our own private gardens, rather than be cooped up with small children in apartments with the additional loss of privacy, and cost of condo fees.

    This list is by no means comprehensive but all these and other factors add up to a superior quality of life in many aspects in the UK to that of Brazil. Brazil however has better weather, friendlier people, more spectacular scenery and natural wonders (from Iguacu, to Lencois, to the Amazon and Pantanal etc).

  • #124642

    enchantbeau
    Member

    How much would a detached house with private garden cost in Hertfordshire? ¬£300,000 at least. You would need to earn a salary of ¬£75,000 to buy one. Schools aren’t free they are paid for through taxation. If you are single without children you still pay for everyone else’s childrens education. Comparing Hertfordshire ( I lived in Tring quite some time ago, similar sized town to where I live in Goais, and a better comparison than Mid Wales) to Sao Paulo isn’t really a runner is it? Also, you seem to be saying you are now in the UK (‘where we are’ etc) so if life is better for you there – go for it – for those of us whose are lives are better in Brazil, why not at least once try to understand why this is so.

  • #124644

    mastercoop
    Member

    My family splits our time in each country actually, which is why I’m able to do this cross-comparative analysis. A detached house in an inaccessible small town in Herts can be bought for ¬£250,000. But then you don’t necessarily need detached. In any case as you’re 4 hours drive from the nearest big town, I’d say mid-Wales is a better comparison. Schools are free. Whereas in Brazil you get nothing for your taxes, in the UK you get usable schools and healthcare. If you were brought up in the UK then you yourself presumably benefitted from free education. Not many users of this forum can say that of their kids in Brazil. I have spent and continue to spend much of my life in both Brazil and the UK and the reason I’m debating with you now is precisely to understand why this is so (life being of a higher quality in many aspects in the UK).

    Juninho2009-07-22 08:43:47

  • #124672

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    I have these ‘debates’ with my wife all the time, it has become an ongoing topic of discussion. We both would like to try life back there but Ive heard some right horror stories recently about the job situations. Maybe it would be better to wait for things to pan out.
    Dead

  • #124677

    mastercoop
    Member

    Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans

  • #124705

    PEARLYGURL
    Member

    Hugcliches

  • #124757

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=tamashin][QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=delco][QUOTE=pulkkmi]

    6. High prices for low quality products.
    What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids..

    [/QUOTE]

    Everything I have bought in Brazil works fine. But as I am not an engineer I couldn’t judge the quality, but my TV, DVD, cooker all look the same as the ones I had in the UK on the outside at least!

    Give one example of paying 3-5 times more? For what? The middle classes where I am have a better standard of living than in the UK (where you need to be a company director just to buy a small terrace house these days).
    And although car prices are rather high (especially secondhand) they do retain a high resale value, so all is not lost.
    To just pile up a list of a countries deficiencies without giving any specific examples is a liitle flimsy and for what purpose?

    [/QUOTE]

    The equivalent of where you live in the UK is a small town in the middle of Wales, where a terrace house would sell for ¬£40,000, which is well within the reach of just about anyone, not just company directors. Electronics are mostly 3-5 times the cost in the US, and at least 2-3 times what it costs in the UK. The purpose of the post is to point out the downside and see how we can mitigate these downsides. Pretending a problem doesn’t exist just because it’s an inconvenient truth doesn’t do anyone any favours. My own Brazilian wife is torn between her family connections in Brazil and the far higher quality of life and lower costs in the UK. For many readers of this site, these are real and important issues they have no choice but to confront. You appear to be attempting to close down the debate, just as the original poster feared would happen.

    [/QUOTE]
    A lot of people say that items from the States are actually cheaper. I read somewhere (possibly this thread) that people think it is cheaper to buy there (in the States) and bring back to Brasil.
    [/QUOTE]
    Can anybody help me here? I am sure there was a post somewhere which said electrical items were cheaper in the States and it was common to buy more items there and then sell them here? Sorry about the huge post but I dont think we can edit posts to suit nowConfused
    tamashin2009-07-22 20:29:26

  • #124758

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=delco]How much would a detached house with private garden cost in Hertfordshire? £300,000 at least. You would need to earn a salary of £75,000 to buy one.

    Schools aren’t free they are paid for through taxation. If you are single without children you still pay for everyone else’s childrens education. Comparing Hertfordshire ( I lived in Tring quite some time ago, similar sized town to where I live in Goais, and a better comparison than Mid Wales) to Sao Paulo isn’t really a runner is it?
    Also, you seem to be saying you are now in the UK (‘where we are’ etc) so if life is better for you there – go for it – for those of us whose are lives are better in Brazil, why not at least once try to understand why this is so.

    [/QUOTE]
    Ho, Ho we were neighboursShockedit is indeed a small worldLOL.
    What about “The Wicked Lady”, Wheathampstead? They had special ales there you couldnt mention on this site without offending the ladies.
    And will I ever go back to St Albans?
    Who could forget Letchworth Garden City and Welwyn Garden City (a lot of people actually) and dear old Hitchin?
    Then there was that city which a giant round a bout surrounded by eight mini round a bouts; what was that about?
    Thanks for bringing it all back.
    Now I know why I am staying in Brasil.
    In

  • #124765

    Kiet to
    Member

    [QUOTE=tamashin] Can anybody help me here? I am sure there was a post somewhere which said electrical items were cheaper in the States and it was common to buy more items there and then sell them here? Sorry about the huge post but I dont think we can edit posts to suit nowConfused
    [/QUOTE]

    The probable reason nobody has helped you (yet) is that in this case, although it had a grammatical error, a blind man could see what was meant in the statement you have highlighted in pink. In my opinion, you are being provocative and just looking for an argument, which is not in the sprit of this forum.

    People should be allowed to post here without fear of being nitpicked for simple errors, your grammar and spelling certainly leaves a lot to be desired at times so why you seem to take pleasure in pointing out the small mistakes of others is a bit of a mystery, only you know the answer to that.

    However, you are absolutely correct, electrical items (most) are cheaper in USAthan in Brazil. This is because the Brazilian government imposes very large taxes on them and inefficient businesses like to make large profits.

    And yes, (some) people do buy more items “there” and sell them “here”, makes good sense, I always do and so do all my friends.

  • #124767

    PEARLYGURL
    Member

    Clap

  • #124775

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Zippo][QUOTE=tamashin] Can anybody help me here? I am sure there was a post somewhere which said electrical items were cheaper in the States and it was common to buy more items there and then sell them here? Sorry about the huge post but I dont think we can edit posts to suit nowConfused
    [/QUOTE]

    The probable reason nobody has helped you (yet) is that in this case, although it had a grammatical error, a blind man could see what was meant in the statement you have highlighted in pink. In my opinion, you are being provocative and just looking for an argument, which is not in the sprit of this forum.

    People should be allowed to post here without fear of being nitpicked for simple errors, your grammar and spelling certainly leaves a lot to be desired at times so why you seem to take pleasure in pointing out the small mistakes of others is a bit of a mystery, only you know the answer to that.

    However, you are absolutely correct, electrical items (most) are cheaper in USAthan in Brazil. This is because the Brazilian government imposes very large taxes on them and inefficient businesses like to make large profits.

    And yes, (some) people do buy more items “there” and sell them “here”, makes good sense, I always do and so do all my friends.

    [/QUOTE]
    Good on you, Zippo, thanks for straightening that out. Wish I could find those actual posts though to back it up, still, what do you do? Read posts like this, flick through the search, take notes, I don’t know? Is it worth it?42

  • #124778

    Kiet to
    Member

    [QUOTE=tamashin] Good on you, Zippo, thanks for straightening that out. Wish I could find those actual posts though to back it up, still, what do you do? Read posts like this, flick through the search, take notes, I don’t know? Is it worth it?42
    [/QUOTE] What do I do? I try to be nice to people and not make false accusations. So, to satisfy your curiosity, no I do not flick through the search or take notes, I simply have a good memory. Have a very pleasant day.

  • #124938

    wtdknknm
    Member

    Just come onto this thread, a lot to take in. I think all these positive/negative thoughts and opinions are valid one way or the other. It really comes down to your outlook and state of mind. Personally, I have lived in Brazil nearly 2 years and i’m not sure now of my own state of mind!! I live near Joao Pessoa (and I am not one of the trumpet blowers aforementioned). There are pros and cons to living here and in Brazil in general, for me…. Positives1. I have fantastic panoramic views of the sea, beach & countryside…a similar place in the UK would cost 10 timesthat and the views/weather not nearly as good. 2. We don’t pay for water here and our freewater is so much better than in the UK. Also our property tax for a yearis less than we were paying in one monthin the UK. 3. Fuel is cheaper as is a lot of the basic foods. Negatives1. Costs of vehicles, electrical goods, insurances, internet, furniture etc etc is high yet the quality is low.2. Due to above, always having problems/breakdowns with something. Hardly a week goes by without something breaking down. 3. Customer service. What customer service?? 4. Everything seems to be so difficult to do, even seemingly “simple” things become major projects including dealing with the authorities. 5. Public services very poor (at least where I live)…bad road, poor street lighing (when it is actually working), c**p internet and way too many electricity power outages. 6. Corruption and its associated problems. Thats how I see it. There are some great positives but unfortunately way too many negatives.

  • #125020

    acampos
    Member

    [QUOTE=growler]Just come onto this thread, a lot to take in. I think all these positive/negative thoughts and opinions are valid one way or the other. It really comes down to your outlook and state of mind. Personally, I have lived in Brazil nearly 2 years and i’m not sure now of my own state of mind!!

    I live near Joao Pessoa (and I am not one of the trumpet blowers aforementioned). There are pros and cons to living here and in Brazil in general, for me….
    Positives
    1. I have fantastic panoramic views of the sea, beach & countryside…a similar place in the UK would cost 10 timesthat and the views/weather not nearly as good.
    2. We don’t pay for water here and our freewater is so much better than in the UK. Also our property tax for a yearis less than we were paying in one monthin the UK.
    3. Fuel is cheaper as is a lot of the basic foods.
    Negatives
    1. Costs of vehicles, electrical goods, insurances, internet, furniture etc etc is high yet the quality is low.
    2. Due to above, always having problems/breakdowns with something. Hardly a week goes by without something breaking down.
    3. Customer service. What customer service??
    4. Everything seems to be so difficult to do, even seemingly “simple” things become major projects including dealing with the authorities.
    5. Public services very poor (at least where I live)…bad road, poor street lighing (when it is actually working), c**p internet and way too many electricity power outages.
    6. Corruption and its associated problems.
    Thats how I see it. There are some great positives but unfortunately way too many negatives.
    Nice post.
    It is a complicated multivariable equation for all involved. What price should a woman place on leaving Brazil and her family to live in Europe or the States? The issue of immigration comes down to more that dollars and cents. A friend of mine dumped her American husband to return to Brazil to be close to her frail mother. As a hair dresser in Brazil she makes a tenth of what she made in the States and she doesn’t give a damn.
    But then again she is not a Gringo living in Brazil. There is a huge variety of Gringos with different expectations and needs in terms of age, marital status, offspring, and standard of living requirements.
    The diversity makes the postings all the more fun to see how people search for the path to happiness com um pedaco do Brasil no coracao. It is not an easy path for when away you will ficar com saudade, and when present sem duvida as vezes passar raiva.
    Of course I can also cite the case of a woman from Brazil who loved the States so much that she only returns to Brazil for short visits, buys her mother tickets to come to the States and she is quite content here.
    So it is a multivariable muti faceted situation.

    [/QUOTE]bobbyitaparica2009-07-25 00:25:12

  • #125074

    mastercoop
    Member

    It’s also full of corner bars and favelas

  • #125136

    acampos
    Member

    [QUOTE=frank4000]great beaches and beautiful women[/QUOTE]
    LOLClapClapClap
    Priceless!!
    And the women are very friendly and love gingoes!!LOLLOLLOL
    ClapClapLOLbobbyitaparica2009-07-26 23:52:19

  • #125144

    edit_21
    Member

    [QUOTE=bobbyitaparica] [QUOTE=frank4000]great beaches and beautiful women [/QUOTE]
    LOLClapClapClap
    Priceless!!
    And the women are very friendly and love gingoes!!LOLLOLLOL

    ClapClapLOL[/QUOTE] Do you have a problem with women or beaches ?? Maybe your girls on the beach all carry Uzi’s to rob you with Dead

  • #125145

    acampos
    Member

    [QUOTE=KiteFlyer][QUOTE=bobbyitaparica] [QUOTE=frank4000]great beaches and beautiful women [/QUOTE]
    LOLClapClapClap
    Priceless!!
    And the women are very friendly and love gingoes!!LOLLOLLOL
    ClapClapLOL[/QUOTE]

    Do you have a problem with women or beaches ?? Maybe your girls on the beach all carry Uzi’s to rob you with Dead

    [/QUOTE]
    No problem at all. Notice the happy faces and applause. Beaches and beautiful women deserve this of course!!ClapClapClapClapClapClapLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
    I spotted a dozen PF in Salvador with very heavy machine guns that would make an Uzi look like a toy. They were on Avenida Sete in front of a Banco do Brasil.
    bobbyitaparica2009-07-27 03:21:39

  • #125155

    edit_21
    Member

    PF or PM? Not that it makes much difference to you. Did you by any chance also see the sun shining, the children playing, the old ladies shopping or do you only live in the deep shade of paranoia?

  • #125158

    mastercoop
    Member

    So 140 odd deaths by the police in just one city in 1 yearis no big deal? Wouldn’t concern you if you lived there?

  • #125165

    acampos
    Member

    The Policia Federal agents had massive machine guns and were riding about in big SUV’s. It was the first time I saw a group like that downtown on Avenida Sete near the Shopping Lapa.
    No paranoia at all. Just citing the facts.

  • #125170

    [QUOTE=Juninho]So 140 odd deaths by the police in just one city in 1 yearis no big deal? Wouldn’t concern you if you lived there?[/QUOTE]
    If you lived in Rio would this concern you? Source : Sunday Herald 05.07.2008: “In 12 months, Rio’s police have killed 1330 people in confrontations,according to official figures. Dozens of innocent bystanders have alsobeen wounded in the crossfire, several killed.”

  • #125174

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=frank4000]yeah it would bother me, but what can you do about it[/QUOTE] You can live someplace else for a start. The point was that it’s not paranoia as suggested by our JP promoting friend.

  • #125178

    Kiet to
    Member

    [QUOTE=Segundavida]If you lived in Rio would this concern you? Source : Sunday Herald 05.07.2008: “In 12 months, Rio’s police have killed 1330 people in confrontations, according to official figures. Dozens of innocent bystanders have also been wounded in the crossfire, several killed.”[/QUOTE]

    Good point 2nd Life, we happen to live on a hill across the valley, and in full view of Rocinha, supposedly the largest favela in Brazil, if not South America. The lights are spectacular at night and both our domestic staff live there without fear.

    On the other hand, although we are far enough away not to be able to actually see it, we can clearly hear the sounds of fireworks signaling either a police invasion or drug delivery. We can also plainly hear the sound of gunfire during a stoush between the cops and the bad guys, a regular occurrence.

    Does it bother us, no of course not as we know it doesn’t generally spill out in to the streets although, as reported, the occasional bystander takes a stray bullet. I had the same attitude when in Belfastduring the height of the problems, in fact it was worse as had to run for cover a couple of times.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, we have never actually seen a violent act in Rio, but for sure we know it exists, big time. And one of these days we’ll more than likely be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get to see something go down or get robbed ourselves. To be honest, we feel safer in Riothan many other cities we have lived in, we love the place, warts and all.

    To these guys, it’s just another day at the office;

  • #125180

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho]

    The point was that it’s not paranoia as suggested by our JP promoting friend.

    [/QUOTE]
    [QUOTE=Juninho]If I’m not mistaken no-one’s talking about JP………………..[/QUOTE]LOLWink
    London Lad2009-07-27 11:21:29

  • #125182

    mastercoop
    Member

    ErmmYour point?

  • #125184

    Well said Zippo I have lived in Salvador for 7 tears non-stop and in that entire time have only been pickpocked one time at a hugh concert in the first year here when I was still a bit naive .Other then that I ride my bike to the beach,bank,grocery store and gym almost daily and my biggest fear is of being run down by an errant motorist who is not paying attention.I too have visited Rio a number of times and found it to be a vibrant and beautifull setting for a city.In my case I did not choose Salvador rather Salvador chose me.Is it the safest city in Brazil?Of course not.Is it the most dangerous city in Brazil?I don’t think so.My point is you live wherever you live and try your best to live life to the fullest and enjoy your surroundings.One can not always just pack up and leave for greener pastures due to family,work and many other factors so you adapt,tolerate and if things get too tough you go to the beach and have a beer or agua de cocoBig%20smileSegundavida2009-07-27 11:43:57

  • #125185

    mastercoop
    Member

    But why settle there in the first place?

  • #125189

    [QUOTE=Juninho]But why settle there in the first place?[/QUOTE]
    Simple,I fell in love and still amSmile

  • #125191

    mastercoop
    Member

    With the city or your Mrs?

  • #125197

    Both!That was 7 years ago and the city is not so attractive today or perhaps my glasses are not so rosy anymore.However the Mrs. has family here and is one of those people who would not consider moving to another Barrio much less another State in Brazil.Also not everyone has the financial means to cherry pick the world for the most advantageous place to live.Anyway enough about me why do you live where you live?I believe you said you live part time in Rio and part time in the UK did you not?

  • #125198

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=frank4000]yeah it would bother me, but what can you do about it[/QUOTE]

    You can live someplace else for a start.

    [/QUOTE]Are you still in Fortaleza Juninho? What is the crime like there? If you have moved what is the crime like where you live now?
    Can you tell me where I should live if I want a crime free lifeand not just a crime free existence?
    I’m not having a go at you, I’m just interested in where you would live if you were to take your own advice.

  • #125215

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=Segundavida]Both!That was 7 years ago and the city is not so attractive today or perhaps my glasses are not so rosy anymore.However the Mrs. has family here and is one of those people who would not consider moving to another Barrio much less another State in Brazil.Also not everyone has the financial means to cherry pick the world for the most advantageous place to live.Anyway enough about me why do you live where you live?I believe you said you live part time in Rio and part time in the UK did you not? [/QUOTE] For my part, my family spends half the time in each country, with the kids completely adaptable and bi-lingual. Not Rio but SP in Brazil at the moment, though we’re considering decamping to Rio in the future. If you’re a gringo, then before you moved to Brazil presumably you could have gone pretty much anywhere you wanted? Where there’s a will there’s a way.

  • #125217

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=London Lad] [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=frank4000]yeah it would bother me, but what can you do about it[/QUOTE] You can live someplace else for a start.
    [/QUOTE]Are you still in Fortaleza Juninho? What is the crime like there? If you have moved what is the crime like where you live now?

    Can you tell me where I should live if I want a crime free lifeand not just a crime free existence?

    I’m not having a go at you, I’m just interested in where you would live if you were to take your own advice.[/QUOTE] For a crime free life, well I guess that’s not completely possible in this world, though I’ll bet the crime levels in the Vatican are probably lower than most places. Should the clerical life not be your thing then the next best would be Switzerland, Luxembourg, Scandinavia or New Zealand. I don’t know too many people who have lived in those places complaining. I’m not in Fortaleza – though I have visited but wasn’t overly impressed, though not overly depressed either.

  • #125227

    Originally posted by Juninho:”For a crime free life, well I guess that’s not completely possible inthis world, though I’ll bet the crime levels in the Vatican areprobably lower than most places. Should the clerical life not be yourthing then the next best would be Switzerland, Luxembourg, Scandinaviaor New Zealand. I don’t know too many people who have lived in thoseplaces complaining. I’m not in Fortaleza – though I have visited butwasn’t overly impressed, though not overly depressed either.”LL asked and I quote”I’m not having a go at you, I’m just interested in where you would live if you were to take your own advice.”And I guess once again I must ask ,why do you live where you live?Simple questions but I’m not seeing any answers here.

  • #125231

    x32792
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=London Lad] [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=frank4000]yeah it would bother me, but what can you do about it[/QUOTE]

    You can live someplace else for a start.

    [/QUOTE]Are you still in Fortaleza Juninho? What is the crime like there? If you have moved what is the crime like where you live now?
    Can you tell me where I should live if I want a crime free lifeand not just a crime free existence?
    I’m not having a go at you, I’m just interested in where you would live if you were to take your own advice.[/QUOTE]

    For a crime free life, well I guess that’s not completely possible in this world, though I’ll bet the crime levels in the Vatican are probably lower than most places. Should the clerical life not be your thing then the next best would be Switzerland, Luxembourg, Scandinavia or New Zealand. I don’t know too many people who have lived in those places complaining. I’m not in Fortaleza – though I have visited but wasn’t overly impressed, though not overly depressed either.

    [/QUOTE]Well I guess the crime in the Vatican is different, but looking at thecatholic church over the last few years would stop me moving there as Ihave young children Wink
    Switzerland, Luxembourg, Scandinavia have crime problems, but nothingto compare with Brazil, but they are cold most of the year and fromwhat I understand from the Swiss I know living here they are not reallymuch fun, they are boring countries.
    As for NZ maybe things have changed a bit, but a few years ago Gangcrime in NZ was totally out of control, the police were claiming theywere completely outnumbered by the gang members, there is a lot of infoabout this on the Internet and I have seen at least 3 documentariesmade about it.
    I think we agree that crime is everywhere and you have to be careful, Ihave spent a lot of time in Sao Paulo and have found it a very safeplace to live because I have never had an incident while there, mypartner who is from Sao Paulo would never want to live there againbecause of the crime although she was not a victim herself while livingthere.
    There are going to be pro’s and con’s about living everywhere, my viewis to make the best out of your life, try and assimilate and enjoyyourself where ever you live, after all anyone who has any lifeexperience knows the grass isn’t greener just a different shade of greenSmile

  • #125233

    Well said LL almost makes me want to move to………Smile

  • #125257

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=Segundavida]Originally posted by Juninho:”For a crime free life, well I guess that’s not completely possible inthis world, though I’ll bet the crime levels in the Vatican areprobably lower than most places. Should the clerical life not be yourthing then the next best would be Switzerland, Luxembourg, Scandinaviaor New Zealand. I don’t know too many people who have lived in thoseplaces complaining. I’m not in Fortaleza – though I have visited butwasn’t overly impressed, though not overly depressed either.”LL asked and I quote”I’m not having a go at you, I’m just interested in where you would live if you were to take your own advice.”And I guess once again I must ask ,why do you live where you live?Simple questions but I’m not seeing any answers here.[/QUOTE]
    I actually answered above – I am not separated from my wife and kids! Yes I follow my own advice.

  • #125289

    Good enough Juninho you pointed out some countries that have low crime but which have less then desirable weather conditions and Luxembourg which aside from being a banking center is a dreary and unattractive place in my book having spent time there.I really just jumped in here to better understand why you would continue to live in Brazil,be it in SP or Rio if you felt it to be so threatening(much less Salvador).As you said “If you’re a gringo, then before you moved to Brazil presumably you could have gone pretty much anywhere you wanted?”Obviously you have your reasons for living where you do as do we all and the reasons are varied and diverse.Enjoy life wherever that may be and good luck.

  • #125317

    edit_21
    Member

    All I can say is if there ever is a day of reckoning then the Roman Catholic Church will have a hell of a lot to answer for!! As to living in the Holy See, no thanks I have a small son !!! In answer to the question “Why do you live there?” I would answer “Everyone has to live somewhere”

  • #125347

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=Segundavida]Good enough Juninho you pointed out some countries that have low crime but which have less then desirable weather conditions and Luxembourg which aside from being a banking center is a dreary and unattractive place in my book having spent time there.I really just jumped in here to better understand why you would continue to live in Brazil,be it in SP or Rio if you felt it to be so threatening(much less Salvador).As you said “If you’re a gringo, then before you moved to Brazil presumably you could have gone pretty much anywhere you wanted?”Obviously you have your reasons for living where you do as do we all and the reasons are varied and diverse.Enjoy life wherever that may be and good luck. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure about what part of my answer you don’t get, my family and I spend half the year approx in Brazil (SP) and the UK (Herts). Is that clear enough now? New Zealand’s weather is actually pretty good. I live in SP because that’s where the wife’s family is and where we both have our friends and where work is. SP is way less dangerous than Salvador. And yes, when younger without ties, I could have decided to live pretty much anywhere. Except Saudi Arabia – difficult residency requirements.

  • #125350

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho] SP is way less dangerous than Salvador. [/QUOTE] That’s a matter of conjecture …. neither of us have lived in the other’s city, – only visited. Smile

  • #125352

    [QUOTE=globetrotter][QUOTE=Juninho] SP is way less dangerous than Salvador. [/QUOTE]

    That’s a matter of conjecture …. neither of us have lived in the other’s city, – only visited. Smile

    [/QUOTE]globetrotter sums it up fairly well here and I have no desire to get into a circular argument involving crime statistics etc.Wink

  • #125368

    mastercoop
    Member

    Since only the statistics (weighted on a per capita basis) can conclusively win the argument objectively, and that is off limits, there’s not much more I can say. I’d call a gringoes.com poll, but I believe this functionality has never actually worked.

  • #128653

    Hmmm…. I dont think there is an answer to this “argument”… All countries are different have different values and standards of living… I think you have to take on board the cultural differences as well… what is important / a norm in one country is different in another… my brazilian g/f cant believe the prices of some items in Europe.. but we need to question why productd are so cheap?? eg: the clothes are so cheap… because they are made in sweatshops in china for people earning less than a $1 a day!!! WHy is food so cheap in supermarkets.. cos big companies such as Wal Mart screw over local farmers or import from places where farmers are receiving a pitance for their products while the supermarkets make huge profits! It seems to me that Brazilians place value on other things rather than just material objects… IMO this is refreshing in comparison to USA/ western europe.. as usual most americans want to move to a country and find american products at the same or cheaper price… most americans see a new Starbucks in a city as a sign of development and progression!!! You aint in America anymore… and most brazilians I have met live in fear of their country ever becoming anything like the USA…

  • #128672

    mastercoop
    Member

    Scottyh I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. Everything is made in China in the shops in both Brazil and the UK/US, but all the crappy stuff ends up in Brazil at 4 times the price. There’s no Walmart in the UK and I’m not aware of the reason why Brazilian companies can’t offer Brazilian consumers the same bargains as the west. Farmers everywhere get screwed by supermarkets. Most Brazilians who travel to and from the west return with suitcase loads of goods. They are as consumerist as the rest of the planet. It’s just that in Brazil the value for money is so appalling they are forced to wait until they go abroad or are forced to go without.

  • #128986

    davidt10
    Member

    Scotty is right.
    As a brazilian I feel terrified of Brazil americanizing itself even more…
    it will be no fun in the world, if the world GLOBALIZE ALL CULTURES……WHAT IS THE POINT IN TRAVELINGCry
    We have a say in BRAZIL ” Rich countries have complex homes and simple personalities, in BRASIL , we have complex personalities and simple homes”…..
    Brasilians give emphasis to friendship and fun, life is too short to waste it over obsessing for money as some of the rich countries do.
    Sleepy
    Girasol2009-09-02 12:41:19

  • #129036

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    [QUOTE=Girasol]
    We have a say in BRAZIL ” Rich countries have complex homes and simple personalities, in BRASIL , we have complex personalities and simple homes”…..
    [/QUOTE]
    Really?
    Excellent sweeping statement there LOL

  • #129042

    gatinha
    Member

    [QUOTE=Girasol]
    Brasilians give emphasis to friendship and fun, life is too short to waste it over obsessing for money as some of the rich countries do.
    [/QUOTE]
    And this is why I like Brazil so much! Living in rich countries allows an “easy” lifestyle, but the people are just so materialistic and independent…no fun!

  • #129047

    Paulo
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Juninho]Scottyh There’s no Walmart in the UK [/QUOTE] Yes there is. It is called Asda in UK.

  • #129053

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=ToVoltando][QUOTE=Girasol]
    Brasilians give emphasis to friendship and fun, life is too short to waste it over obsessing for money as some of the rich countries do.
    [/QUOTE]
    And this is why I like Brazil so much! Living in rich countries allows an “easy” lifestyle, but the people are just so materialistic and independent…no fun!
    [/QUOTE]
    This is backward from my experience. My friends in Brazil obsess over their cars and TVs far more than my friends in the U.S.
    And then there is the cel phone worship here …
    DUNGA2009-09-02 17:26:45

  • #129069

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=cardi][QUOTE=Juninho]Scottyh There’s no Walmart in the UK [/QUOTE] Yes there is. It is called Asda in UK. [/QUOTE] No – ASDA is the subsidiary in the UK, but run as it was before Walmart purchased it, on a totally autonomous basis. The goods and their prices bear no resemblance at all to Walmart.

  • #129070

    gatinha
    Member

    [QUOTE=DUNGA]
    [QUOTE=ToVoltando]
    [QUOTE=Girasol]Brasilians give emphasis to friendship and fun, life is too short to waste it over obsessing for money as some of the rich countries do.
    [/QUOTE]And this is why I like Brazil so much!¬† Living in rich countries allows an “easy” lifestyle, but the people are just so materialistic and independent…no fun![/QUOTE]This is backward from my experience. My friends in Brazil obsess over their cars and TVs far more than my friends in the U.S.And then there is the cel phone worship here …[/QUOTE]
    Actually you are 100% right, the most materialistic people I have met were Brazilians that didn’t have hardly any material goods. Always obsessing about stuff (and after they found out I was American, it became much much worse)
    But they still can’t be as independent as in 1st world countries and therefore there is lots of community spirit, and I guess that is what I am drawn to.

  • #129077

    Gringo go go
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=cardi][QUOTE=Juninho]Scottyh

    There’s no Walmart in the UK [/QUOTE]
    Yes there is. It is called Asda in UK.

    [/QUOTE]

    No – ASDA is the subsidiary in the UK, but run as it was before Walmart purchased it, on a totally autonomous basis. The goods and their prices bear no resemblance at all to Walmart.[/QUOTE]
    An interesting comment to say the least. Just wondering why we were bombarded with Walmart literature on an almost daily basis when our local ASDA was taken over. Of course the staff still wore the “We are still your friendly ASDA etc, etc T shirts” as we said hello to the Walmart staff when we went shopping, the store was opened on its first day by Walmart executives who appeared greeting all and sundry in the local rag.

  • #129089

    RoMo
    Member

    Brazilians are materialistic today because of the negative influence of the USA, if you notice around Brazil, it has become a playground for the american multinationals to plant their flag of capitalism controling and dictating the lives of many citizens…..
    Americans criticize Europeans for allowing government interference in their lives, yet, Americans give their asses to their corporate America.
    Corporations here own your life, your wife, your children and every bit of your ass.
    They do it subtly but cornering the markets on products, e.g. cell phones, electrical bills and every thing you eat and touch.
    They call it freedom/democracy to allow corporations to rip you off and control your life.
    Francisco2009-09-03 09:34:06

  • #129093

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=DUNGA] This is backward from my experience. My friends in Brazil obsess over their cars and TVs far more than my friends in the U.S.
    And then there is the cel phone worship here …
    [/QUOTE] True… I’ve noticed that in Brazil people seem to like to tell people how much they paid for something – the more they paid, the better. It’s a way of showing how “successful” (if you judge success by disposable income) they are. In Britain, we get more kudos for spotting a bargain and paying little money for good quality. We’re still shafted though when UK prices are compared to U.S. prices. Cryglobetrotter2009-09-03 10:15:49

  • #129113

    gatinha
    Member

    [QUOTE=Francisco]Brazilians are materialistic today because of the negative influence of the USA, if you notice around Brazil, it has become a playground for the american multinationals to plant their flag of capitalism controling and dictating the lives of many citizens…..
    Americans criticize Europeans for allowing government interference in their lives, yet, Americans give their asses to their corporate America.
    Corporations here own your life, your wife, your children and every bit of your ass.
    They do it subtly but cornering the markets on products, e.g. cell phones, electrical bills and every thing you eat and touch.
    They call it freedom/democracy to allow corporations to rip you off and control your life.
    [/QUOTE]
    Ooh poor victimized Brazilians have no minds of their owns! The just get taken advantage of all the time! Same old sob story, meanwhile they sit on their hands and let corruption take its toll…isnt it the Brazilians that voted these corrupt officials in the government or was it the big bad Americans too?
    If you want the mean Americans to go away, buy a piece of land and live off the fat of it, who says you have to buy from Sams Club or Walmart?…or is that lovely opportunity of materialism America jingles in the face of Brazilians just too tempting…are you overtaken by your greed lured in by the stars and stripes carrot?

  • #129115

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=tamashin] [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=cardi][QUOTE=Juninho]Scottyh There’s no Walmart in the UK [/QUOTE] Yes there is. It is called Asda in UK. [/QUOTE] No – ASDA is the subsidiary in the UK, but run as it was before Walmart purchased it, on a totally autonomous basis. The goods and their prices bear no resemblance at all to Walmart.[/QUOTE]

    An interesting comment to say the least. Just wondering why we were bombarded with Walmart literature on an almost daily basis when our local ASDA was taken over. Of course the staff still wore the “We are still your friendly ASDA etc, etc T shirts” as we said hello to the Walmart staff when we went shopping, the store was opened on its first day by Walmart executives who appeared greeting all and sundry in the local rag.
    [/QUOTE] You raise a good point. You’re not the only one wondering why years after the takeover so little has apparently actually changed. I love Costco and woul welcome Walmart for the great products and prices they offer in the US at least. I can see no change at all though I understand there have been some relatively subtle changes. Juninho2009-09-03 14:08:26

  • #129123

    davidt10
    Member

    @ PULKKMI
    The trick is NOT TO BUY when you are in Brazil, I am from Brazil and it is true, the products are expensive and no quality.
    No one disputes with you.
    But you seem really ugly for not showing compassion to the poor brazilians that work more than your gringo ass, and you still complain.
    As for asking what the hell are you still doing in Brasil, this is common to all cultures.
    Here in the USA if you complaint, they may shoot you , or beat you up.
    Try complaining about France to he French, they guillotine your ass.
    Try complaining about….the little country Denmark to a Dane, they will also ask you why are you living in their country.
    This is common to all countries….people really wonder why one is in another man’s land and bitching…as it is your sorry ass….
    So just tell Brasilians that you are a greedy mother and are making the bucks and you don’t give a sh*t about their country or culture….
    be honest and then do get the hell out of Brazil, we will be glad to see your ugly ass out of our nation. LET US HELP PULKKMI OUT OF BRAZIL…and yes PULKKMI, there is nothing good in Brasil, except the BUCKS THAT YOUR SORRY ASS IS GETTING RIGHT? WE WILL MAKE SURE YOU LEAVE SOON.
    Many hugs.LOL
    Girasol2009-09-03 15:50:07

  • #129133

    gatinha
    Member

    This is a new side of Girasol! LOL

  • #129139

    davidt10
    Member

    At Delco:
    you are correct Delco, depends of what you buy in Brasil. I lived in the USA for the last 36 years, and lived my childhood in Brasil.
    If you are a consumist and a total materialist empty ass, yes Brasil is not the place to be.
    Brasil is about living slow and enjoying the moment. It is not England, nor USA where money is King and specially in the Usa a total disrespect for things that in Brasil people try to fix.
    I totally agree with Bobitaparica and the other guy that things in Brazil can SUCK….however, one does not go to Brasil to work, or find work or make money.
    BRASILIANS agree with negative comments on Brasil, but no culture likes to hear bad things about one’s country right?
    Brazil you go to enjoy the most precious things of Brasil, the people!
    yes we have crime…of course, our government is horrendous, but so is the Brittish house of commons and the USA government…..
    if you go to Brazil, go there to “go with the flow”….not to get pissy!LOL
    Girasol2009-09-03 16:30:46

  • #129141

    davidt10
    Member

    [QUOTE=SteelRat]Hyenaeatpeople: Post deleted for being offensive.[/QUOTE]
    Can dear Steel Rat tell us what was said by this guy??????
    please Steel RAT, let us know, so we don’t repeat it….
    PLEEEEEEEAAASE!!!!Big%20smile

  • #129142

    815
    Member

    [QUOTE=Girasol]At Delco:
    you are correct Delco, depends of what you buy in Brasil. I lived in the USA for the last 36 years, and lived my childhood in Brasil.
    If you are a consumist and a total materialist empty ass, yes Brasil is not the place to be.
    Brasil is about living slow and enjoying the moment. It is not England, nor USA where money is King and specially in the Usa a total disrespect for things that in Brasil people try to fix.
    I totally agree with Bobitaparica and the other guy that things in Brazil can SUCK….however, one does not go to Brasil to work, or find work or make money.
    BRASILIANS agree with negative comments on Brasil, but no culture likes to hear bad things about one’s country right?
    Brazil you go to enjoy the most precious things of Brasil, the people!
    yes we have crime…of course, our government is horrendous, but so is the Brittish house of commons and the USA government…..
    if you go to Brazil, go there to “go with the flow”….not to get pissy!LOL
    [/QUOTE]
    Money is NOT king here in Brazil?!?!?!?!?!?!?!Shocked
    Now I’ve heard it all!

  • #129143

    mattad
    Member

    [QUOTE=SolMilreu][QUOTE=dirtbox]Its more like ridiculously high prices for ok quality products, when it should be affordable prices for ok+ standards.
    [/QUOTE]

    I totally agree with you, specially when it is compared with the United States for instance. It is a day light robbery…too bad![/QUOTE]
    UUGGGGG! I agree with Delco also.
    why do you guys buy it? I live in the USA, and I don’t buy sh*t here…..!
    just don’t buy it! I buy only food, massages, barber, facials , all the instant gratification of life…I spend a lot on food, I love barbecues, and I buy things that I consume in tones…Ice cream, etc…
    stop buying sh*t! do you need it? NO! SO STOP ALL THE MOANING!
    we all know that things are expensive in Brazil…come over here to the usa and go buy a cell phone package or an I-pod and it is total rip off.
    Come here to the USA and try get health care , if you had hemorrhoids you are out of insurance……and out of luck!Evil%20Smile

  • #129147

    mattad
    Member

    [QUOTE=Paulistano USA][QUOTE=Girasol]At Delco:

    Money is NOT king here in Brazil?!?!?!?!?!?!?!Shocked
    Now I’ve heard it all!
    [/QUOTE]
    Is Girasol a guy????? I don’t find brasilians obsessed with money, I find them interested in making a decent living. But here in the USA the more they have the more they want and it is endless.
    At least in Brazil I think people live for the friends and have parties, here in the East coast of the USA sucks, there is no social life, they are misers, cheap , cheap and el chipos…California is the best state to live in the USA , the rest is horrendous…..NY they are total neurotics and eat, sleep and breathe money.
    are you guys kidding me? come live in America…..

  • #129156

    mattad
    Member

    [QUOTE=Paulistano USA][QUOTE=Hercules][QUOTE=Paulistano USA][QUOTE=Girasol]At Delco:

    Money is NOT king here in Brazil?!?!?!?!?!?!?!Shocked
    Now I’ve heard it all!
    [/QUOTE]
    Is Girasol a guy????? I don’t find brasilians obsessed with money, I find them interested in making a decent living. But here in the USA the more they have the more they want and it is endless.
    At least in Brazil I think people live for the friends and have parties, here in the East coast of the USA sucks, there is no social life, they are misers, cheap , cheap and el chipos…California is the best state to live in the USA , the rest is horrendous…..NY they are total neurotics and eat, sleep and breathe money.
    are you guys kidding me? come live in America…..
    [/QUOTE]
    You don’t know Brazil. There is a level of greed that exists here that is by far worse than anything I’ve seen in the States. The top here stuff there fat faces while the bottom starve.
    Golpes? Fraud? It’s like a sport here to F*** each other out of each others MONEY! Look at the government that is bought and sold daily.
    Just like racism, greed is swept under the rug here in Brazil. But both have found a home here.
    [/QUOTE]
    Paulistano:
    I see you quote lots of people here, as per myself, I know Brazil is very corrupt, I don’t see why any foreigner would go live there, given that Costa Rica is much much more organized and offer much more in all fronts….
    have you considered Costa Rica?

  • #129157

    davidt10
    Member

    Here in the USA there are a lot of GOLPES AND FRAUDES…just another day some Evangelical , or Evangelist ran away with tones of cash…after selling his plastic jesus around some small town.
    there is also the Nationwide scandals and corruption that in the UK there is a pettition to the PM to do something about it.
    The Brits are furious with all the corruption in England.
    Here in the USa is also tremendous , and Obama is weak!
    so for the sake of Agreement let us say corruption is every where….in the world, it is due to the lovely GLOBALIZATION.
    To answer one of your questions, I AM A LADY…I AM NOT A MAN, so don’t call me a man mr. hercules.
    Girasol2009-09-03 17:25:56

  • #129158

    davidt10
    Member

    to: ToVoltando
    You are very funny , are you British? I like the British sense of humour.
    I went to England only once and still remember the lovely smell of curry.
    I love the East enders! believe me or not.
    yes, Girasol here has many sides, and I am over with my menopause!LOL
    but you are very funny, you have got to be English!
    hey ToVoltando, are U dannish? as in donuts?…I love danishes, the lemon are my favorites.
    I always wonder about Denmark…I respect their socialized medicine and way of life, they are very civilized!
    I would love to emigrate there, if I cannot survive Brasil.
    do you have an older goat of a Danish guy to introduce me? I am 115 lbs, 5 2″….blondish brown hair, greenish eyes, fit , and brasilian looking, but german/italian descent from PORTO ALEGRE…LOLIN MY YOUTH I USED TO BE QUITE A DISH!WinksTEEL RAT IS NOT INTERESTED IN MECry
    Girasol2009-09-03 17:18:06

  • #129161

    815
    Member

    [QUOTE=Girasol]
    Here in the USa is also tremendous , and Obama is an Uncle Tom, weak!
    [/QUOTE]
    WOW! Do you even know what that means?!?!?
    Seriously, I am far from PC but that is an extremely racist statement.Shocked

  • #129166

    davidt10
    Member

    @ Paulistano:
    Thank you for flagging me….I just deleted the comment.
    I understand that an Uncle Tom is a black person that disrespects the causes of the poor and under classes and negates his own black roots by being pro establishment at the expense of his own roots and descendancy. WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF IT?
    But because I am NOT a racist person, I do not want to give the impression I am racist and deleted the comment.
    My intent was to say Obama HAS TURNED OUT TO BE pro establishment and not for the people and has betrayed the people whom voted for him, his base is the real poor, the working class, AND ALL OF US WHO VOTED FOR HIM etc…..
    that was my intent.Ying%20Yangwas an outreach on my part. Sorry if I offended anyone.
    The term is very much used and it was coined in the USA ….so you are correct, the USA is a racist place still, you see demonstrations by the supremacists every where…..I do not associate with the KKK, very much alive and well in the usa.
    Girasol2009-09-03 17:38:48

  • #129185

    815
    Member

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin
    The term comes from ^ this book. It is an extremely racist term no matter how you justify its use.
    I am not going to get into a pissing match with someone ignorant enough to use this term but you haven’t heard about the White Supremacist murders that took place in the south of Brazil weeks ago? The neo nazi scene is growing exponentially there. There was a report on Globo or Record.
    How about the skinheads that attacked skateboarders on Paulista Ave. this weekend?
    Am I negating the problems that exists in the US in terms of race relations? No. But let’s speak of all the facts. You know what facts are, don’t you?
    Paulistano USA2009-09-03 18:49:33

  • #129190

    davidt10
    Member

    Confusedman! you got some real issues!
    hateful little twit!
    you are too young to be this cynical arrogant and nasty.
    Take your medication!
    By the way, men in Brazil like women , they like the nature of women and are gentlemen regardless if they are straight or not.
    Here in the USA, great number of men despise women. Never have i seen a country in which women are so poorly treated except for some other nations which I won’t mention, where women eat with the dogs.
    but the usa is right after them…..so go grab some beer some where and don’t be so neurotic and holier than thou!
    you are a hypocrite! come see the racism in the usa….oh here is considered freedom of expression right?
    hate is hate! the world cringes at discrimination of the usa with its immigrants…..some of us are stuck here for the time being…..but we know what is like…..latins here are treated as cucarachas. They don’t care where we come from, a brasilian is another latino cucaracha!
    they call people here by race “african american” “asian american”……total institutionalized racism, very subtle eh!
    they still have the kkk alive and well, and the skin heads in Brazil are mimmics of the ones here.
    Here is where all is born HATRED….your love for guns so gun owners can “columbine” their entire nation and all. America loves violence and THIS IS a fact, not fiction!…. DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?
    The terrorists of the world, one finds right here in America, they are born in America and they are not necessarily people of ANY color.
    So before you pass judgment on people from other nations, look at your junk yard in America.
    Girasol2009-09-03 23:08:19

  • #129211

    RoMo
    Member

    Girasol said:
    By the way, men in Brazil like women , they like the nature of women and are gentlemen regardless if they are straight or not.

    opa!Angry
    , Girasol ta brava!
    Hey girasol, I considered myself also American and I like women, and I treat them with respect!..so please mammmmm, don’t lump me with all the others!
    Eta Girasol bravo esse! how many facets do you have? I think you made your points clear but…..do you really give this much of a f**k?
    The world is full of twits and moreons and it is a total COCKUP!
    Concentrate on the good and let the bad slike off your butt!….don’t even let it stick…..really, in the end….we all putrefy and are eaten by worms or worse……is like Janis Joplin sings, “is the same f**king thing man”…..
    don’t sweat the small ….Dead

  • #129214

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=Girasol]
    The Brits are furious with all the corruption in England.

    [/QUOTE] Corruption isn’t accepted in the UK but some still goes on. Nevertheless as Transparency International’s annual list shows, you simply can’t compare corruption in the UK to Brazil, where the voters tolerate it.

  • #129230

    815
    Member

    [QUOTE=Girasol]Confusedman! you got some real issues!
    hateful little twit!
    you are too young to be this cynical arrogant and nasty.
    Take your medication!
    By the way, men in Brazil like women , they like the nature of women and are gentlemen regardless if they are straight or not.
    Here in the USA, great number of men despise women. Never have i seen a country in which women are so poorly treated except for some other nations which I won’t mention, where women eat with the dogs.
    but the usa is right after them…..so go grab some beer some where and don’t be so neurotic and holier than thou!
    you are a hypocrite! come see the racism in the usa….oh here is considered freedom of expression right?
    hate is hate! the world cringes at discrimination of the usa with its immigrants…..some of us are stuck here for the time being…..but we know what is like…..latins here are treated as cucarachas. They don’t care where we come from, a brasilian is another latino cucaracha!
    they call people here by race “african american” “asian american”……total institutionalized racism, very subtle eh!
    they still have the kkk alive and well, and the skin heads in Brazil are mimmics of the ones here.
    Here is where all is born HATRED….your love for guns so gun owners can “columbine” their entire nation and all. America loves violence and THIS IS a fact, not fiction!…. DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?
    The terrorists of the world, one finds right here in America, they are born in America and they are not necessarily people of ANY color.
    So before you pass judgment on people from other nations, look at your junk yard in America.
    [/QUOTE]
    LOL

  • #129312

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    Im convinced some people on this thread are one in the same persona. The ‘non gringos’. yes im talking about you.
    Some of the remarks here are LOL

  • #129317

    815
    Member

    {puts on Beavis and Butt Head impersanation} uh huh huh huh uh huh huh huh…Dirtbox…
    Dude,
    Your user name cracks me up!

  • #129323

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    Glad to know im contributing to making another smile in Brazil.

  • #129347

    RoMo
    Member

    ja disse que somos brasileiros todos nos 6…e existe 6 de nois aqui….sacou?
    I alerted several of my brasilian friends to this site…..every one now knows about this site, even the policia federal, meu amigo Fernando.
    BUT there is nothing that mysterious here, is just a site of help.
    Francisco2009-09-04 20:31:46

  • #129350

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    Which Fernando? There are a lot of them here.

  • #129394

    RoMo
    Member

    cala boca Magda!

  • #129399

    Steven
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Francisco]cala boca Magda! [/QUOTE] Rise above it, Frankie. I know that it’s tough wetbacking into the U.S. and trying to make a living cleaning tables but I know you can do it.

  • #129439

    RoMo
    Member

    [QUOTE=Steven][QUOTE=Francisco]cala boca Magda! [/QUOTE]

    Rise above it, Frankie. I know that it’s tough wetbacking into the U.S. and trying to make a living cleaning tables but I know you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]
    STEVEN YOU ARE AN INCREDIBLE RACIST AND EVIL PERSON. THE TERM WET BACK IN THE USA IS A TOTALLY RACIST AND DEMENTED TERM , USED to describe the poor mexicans that are here or any other person that entered the country by swimming illegally. I AM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN AND A BRAZILIAN CITIZEN. I pay taxes and am relevant in both countries, and very well-connected in both.
    someone will teach you a lesson in Brasil one day for insulting all brasilians, and calling us all WET BACKS…..IF YOU ARE SUCH A RACIST AND DEMENTED PERSON, GET OUT OF BRAZIL….you don’t want us all wet backs around you do you?
    go back to the hole which you left! Is people with your mentality that go blowing countries and promoting hatred, war and racism all over the world.
    Enough the world endures your “fat bodies”, “bombs” and racist attitudes.
    I want all Brasilians now to know of this site and all the racist crap against our country that transpires here, the subtleties of RACISM THAT YOU AMERICANS TRY TO INFILTRATE IN BRAZIL AND PROMOTE your racist mentality. We do not want racist foreigners in Brasil.
    I am going to make many sectors of Brasil AWARE OF THIS SITE….many many sectors …..I want them to keep tabs on this site, and monitor racism and insulting comments, let us see how long all of you foreigners will continue milking Brasil and insulting it at the same time.
    Steven, you are a very ignorant person!
    Francisco2009-09-05 17:07:53

  • #131586

    dgish
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=delco][QUOTE=pulkkmi] 6. High prices for low quality products. What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids.. [/QUOTE] Everything I have bought in Brazil works fine. But as I am not an engineer I couldn’t judge the quality, but my TV, DVD, cooker all look the same as the ones I had in the UK on the outside at least! Give one example of paying 3-5 times more? For what? The middle classes where I am have a better standard of living than in the UK (where you need to be a company director just to buy a small terrace house these days). And although car prices are rather high (especially secondhand) they do retain a high resale value, so all is not lost. To just pile up a list of a countries deficiencies without giving any specific examples is a liitle flimsy and for what purpose? [/QUOTE] The equivalent of where you live in the UK is a small town in the middle of Wales, where a terrace house would sell for ¬£40,000, which is well within the reach of just about anyone, not just company directors. Electronics are mostly 3-5 times the cost in the US, and at least 2-3 times what it costs in the UK. The purpose of the post is to point out the downside and see how we can mitigate these downsides. Pretending a problem doesn’t exist just because it’s an inconvenient truth doesn’t do anyone any favours. My own Brazilian wife is torn between her family connections in Brazil and the far higher quality of life and lower costs in the UK. For many readers of this site, these are real and important issues they have no choice but to confront. You appear to be attempting to close down the debate, just as the original poster feared would happen. [/QUOTE] Well Said!

  • #131588

    dgish
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho]

    My family splits our time in each country actually, which is why I’m able to do this cross-comparative analysis. A detached house in an inaccessible small town in Herts can be bought for ¬£250,000. But then you don’t necessarily need detached. In any case as you’re 4 hours drive from the nearest big town, I’d say mid-Wales is a better comparison. Schools are free. Whereas in Brazil you get nothing for your taxes, in the UK you get usable schools and healthcare. If you were brought up in the UK then you yourself presumably benefitted from free education. Not many users of this forum can say that of their kids in Brazil. I have spent and continue to spend much of my life in both Brazil and the UK and the reason I’m debating with you now is precisely to understand why this is so (life being of a higher quality in many aspects in the UK).

    [/QUOTE] LOLmmm I disagree. If you compare say Sao Paulo to London then frankly Sao Paulo is a better bet. The price of a 2 bedroom apartment in say Chelsea equates to a Penthouse in prime real estate areas of Sao Paulo (with and indoor and outdoor pool on the premises…!). UK taxes are just about the highest in Europe! Most people in the UK have a lot of personal debt and have already crippled the economy, taxes are going to have to go up and public servises will have their budgets cut. I feel that the UK is a sinking ship to be honest with you. Brazil has a better future ahead of it that the UK from what I can see… A wise man once said that “the exchange rate of a country is its share price”, look how much value GBP has lost against the Real recently!! C1122009-10-02 00:35:19

  • #131595

    Anonymous

    b C112
    UK taxes are amongst the lowest in Europe. However I do think that within our lifetimes Brazil has the potential to rise above a lot of European countries IF they can sort out the necessary civic infrastructure, create more transparency etc.
    I’m no economist but the plunging exchange rate is due to UK ltd printing money (Quantative Easing)? The perception of a transparent and stable economy probably remains the reason why we still have AAA rating from the Standard & Poors etc.

  • #131644

    dgish
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spanish_tony]b C112
    UK taxes are amongst the lowest in Europe. However I do think that within our lifetimes Brazil has the potential to rise above a lot of European countries IF they can sort out the necessary civic infrastructure, create more transparency etc.

    I’m no economist but the plunging exchange rate is due to UK ltd printing money (Quantative Easing)? The perception of a transparent and stable economy probably remains the reason why we still have AAA rating from the Standard & Poors etc.
    [/QUOTE] The reason we still have a AAA rating is based on the probability of government debt default. Unlike Mexico, Russia, Argentina etc, the UK has never defaulted on it debts (AKA GILTS). The UK has more debt than it has ever had in the past, more than it had after WWII. Taxes will go up in the UK in some shape or form (stealth tax, direct taxation…). Next year the government has said that the upper rate of income tax will be 50%.

    There are only 4 countries in Europe that I can think of that have a higher top rate of income tax (>50%) and they are all in Scandanavia:

    Norway 54.3%
    Sweden 55%
    Finland 53%
    Denmark 58%

    C1122009-10-02 20:02:17

  • #131706

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=C112][QUOTE=Juninho]

    My family splits our time in each country actually, which is why I’m able to do this cross-comparative analysis. A detached house in an inaccessible small town in Herts can be bought for ¬£250,000. But then you don’t necessarily need detached. In any case as you’re 4 hours drive from the nearest big town, I’d say mid-Wales is a better comparison. Schools are free. Whereas in Brazil you get nothing for your taxes, in the UK you get usable schools and healthcare. If you were brought up in the UK then you yourself presumably benefitted from free education. Not many users of this forum can say that of their kids in Brazil. I have spent and continue to spend much of my life in both Brazil and the UK and the reason I’m debating with you now is precisely to understand why this is so (life being of a higher quality in many aspects in the UK).

    [/QUOTE] LOLmmm I disagree. If you compare say Sao Paulo to London then frankly Sao Paulo is a better bet. The price of a 2 bedroom apartment in say Chelsea equates to a Penthouse in prime real estate areas of Sao Paulo (with and indoor and outdoor pool on the premises…!). UK taxes are just about the highest in Europe! Most people in the UK have a lot of personal debt and have already crippled the economy, taxes are going to have to go up and public servises will have their budgets cut. I feel that the UK is a sinking ship to be honest with you. Brazil has a better future ahead of it that the UK from what I can see… A wise man once said that “the exchange rate of a country is its share price”, look how much value GBP has lost against the Real recently!! [/QUOTE] Clearly house prices in the UK exceed those of Brazil, on every level. However when compared with wages, Brazil is far more expensive – the UK is maybe 2-3 times more, but you earn more than 2-3 times more, on average. UK income tax may be high, but indirect taxes (60%+ import duties which are passed on to the consumer) in Brazil are far higher and you receive nothing in return for the taxes you pay (we have decent usable education, security and healthcare for example). In the 1970s people said the same thing about the UK – these things are fads. I too am optimistic about Brazil, but rememner, Brazil is the future, and it always will be!

  • #131707

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=C112][QUOTE=Spanish_tony]b C112
    UK taxes are amongst the lowest in Europe. However I do think that within our lifetimes Brazil has the potential to rise above a lot of European countries IF they can sort out the necessary civic infrastructure, create more transparency etc.

    I’m no economist but the plunging exchange rate is due to UK ltd printing money (Quantative Easing)? The perception of a transparent and stable economy probably remains the reason why we still have AAA rating from the Standard & Poors etc.
    [/QUOTE] The reason we still have a AAA rating is based on the probability of government debt default. Unlike Mexico, Russia, Argentina etc, the UK has never defaulted on it debts (AKA GILTS). The UK has more debt than it has ever had in the past, more than it had after WWII. Taxes will go up in the UK in some shape or form (stealth tax, direct taxation…). Next year the government has said that the upper rate of income tax will be 50%.

    There are only 4 countries in Europe that I can think of that have a higher top rate of income tax (>50%) and they are all in Scandanavia:

    Norway 54.3%
    Sweden 55%
    Finland 53%
    Denmark 58%

    [/QUOTE] I doubt if Brown will be in power in a year and it’s likely this new 50% rate will be ditched before too long.

  • #131712

    acampos
    Member

    I just brought from the States a new Fagor pressure cooker for $60reduced at Macy’s. This pressure cooker is a beauty and I suggest all gringoes bring one back form the States on your next trip or have a friend bring you one.
    The local shop has the exact same model licensed to Tramontina on sale for 400 reais. (Ten percent off a vista.)
    About half the price in Brazil is in the form of various consumer taxes. So Juninho has a valid point about wages being lower in Brazil and the purchasing power as lower as well due to the huge value added taxes.
    bobbyitaparica2009-10-03 06:48:50

  • #131714

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=bobbyitaparica]The local shop has the exact same model licensed to Tramontina on sale for 400 reais. (Ten percent off a vista.)[/QUOTE]
    The days of Tramontina are numbered. The next model is likely to be made by LonGonCut for onlyR$4,00 x 100.

  • #131790

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=C112][QUOTE=Spanish_tony]b C112
    UK taxes are amongst the lowest in Europe. However I do think that within our lifetimes Brazil has the potential to rise above a lot of European countries IF they can sort out the necessary civic infrastructure, create more transparency etc.
    I’m no economist but the plunging exchange rate is due to UK ltd printing money (Quantative Easing)? The perception of a transparent and stable economy probably remains the reason why we still have AAA rating from the Standard & Poors etc.
    [/QUOTE]

    The reason we still have a AAA rating is based on the probability of government debt default. Unlike Mexico, Russia, Argentina etc, the UK has never defaulted on it debts (AKA GILTS). The UK has more debt than it has ever had in the past, more than it had after WWII. Taxes will go up in the UK in some shape or form (stealth tax, direct taxation…). Next year the government has said that the upper rate of income tax will be 50%.

    There are only 4 countries in Europe that I can think of that have a higher top rate of income tax (>50%) and they are all in Scandanavia:

    Norway 54.3%
    Sweden 55%
    Finland 53%
    Denmark 58%

    [/QUOTE]
    But the UK tax rate of 50% is on earnings of over ¬£150,000 in Belgium people pay 50% on 32,270‚Ǩ (expatica link). In de Netherlands it’s 52% starting from 54000‚Ǩ. I don’t think you are painting a fair picture of UK tax liability compared to European countries.
    Agree that UK has to bring deficit down, but hope this would be done by cutting services instead of raising taxes.Cry

  • #131825

    mastercoop
    Member

    Unfortunately its easier to raise taxes than cut, so expect to see a lot more tax increases than you’d like or perhaps expect and a lot less cutting of services, whoever is in government.

  • #131835

    Gianni
    Member

    Looking for a real career in Sao Paulo is a rough deal? Why is that, I’m now spending my time doing intensive portuguese course at the moment and developing a business plan.. Not much choice otherwise?
    Anybody have suggestions with the lazy brazilians whom falsely lead you on at most times during an meeting of any sort!?

  • #131838

    lmaonade5
    Member

    [QUOTE=Gringodude]Anybody have suggestions with the lazy brazilians whom falsely lead you on at most times during an meeting of any sort!?
    [/QUOTE] Lazy? No. False lead on. No again. Just culturally different. and Yeah, get used to it. That’s the way things work here. No one wants to say an outright ‘No’. It’s considered too confrontational. After awhile, you understand that you just got a ‘NO’ in as polite a way as they know how and you learn to adjust your plans accordingly. Or you live a very frustrated life.

  • #131841

    815
    Member

    That is the (one at least) definition of lead on. To say one thing, giving hope, with little or no intention of following through.
    And if the guy encountered lazy people who are you to tell him that he hasn’t? I sure have met plenty here. Some with fat bank accounts, too.

  • #131867

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Gringodude]Looking for a real career in Sao Paulo is a rough deal? Why is that, I’m now spending my time doing intensive portuguese course at the moment and developing a business plan.. Not much choice otherwise?
    Anybody have suggestions with the lazy brazilians whom falsely lead you on at most times during an meeting of any sort!?
    [/QUOTE]
    You get used to it. When I recognised it I don’t think I was able to take the smile off my face (an involuntary reaction whilst thinking “yeah, you lying so&so!”)
    Actually thinking about it, it has become quite an infectious trait. My wife has noticed when I meet people I can’t stand, I’m all smiles and “E ai? Tudo bem?”

  • #132043

    Ron
    Participant

    If you are visiting Brazil on a holiday or are working for an established company you will have a totally different opinion of the country from someone who is living and working here independantly.
    As soon as you move into the area of fiscal exchange, be it business, buying property or seeking professional advice, you get to see the man behind the mask.
    Corruption and dishonesty are endemic. After 3 years of pleasant living, during which I obtained permanent residency, the mask was lifted when I decided to settle down and buy some property (in Joao Pessoa). In just 4 months, apart from both my wife and myself being assaulted and robbed in separate incidents, mine at gunpoint, I have experienced the full quota of lying, cheating, disrespectful and unprofessional behaviour for which this country is renown.
    Security is a very serious concern. If this country ever goes into high inflation the ‘favela dwellers’ will devour the upper class!!!!
    On that note I intend to take the advice of the ‘what are you doing here if you don’t like it’ faction. I’m outa here!
    On my blog, http://www.myspace.com/ron_sula Post-The Journey part 6 I describe a business dealing in which a Gringo was taken for around US$7 million.
    For those staying, I wish you luck.Captain Ron2009-10-08 08:40:23

  • #132124

    mastercoop
    Member

    Can we have any details? Sounds interesting.

  • #132129

    gatinha
    Member

    I have heard that there are quite large differences between the corruption and security in the far South vs. the far North/N.E., anyone have experience with the difference?

  • #132130

    majazac
    Member

    Before I joined I saw an interesting posting a client of a lawyer posted here a while ago detailing how he was lied to and couldn’t trust the lawyer in question, but the topic (Can Brazilan lawyers be trusted?) was removed…

    Bubbles2009-10-09 05:38:31

  • #132134

    Ron
    Participant

    Neither Brazilian lawyers or real estate agents are required or bound to keep ‘TRUST’ accounts. Ask yourself why?

  • #132135

    Ron
    Participant

    A very astute observation!Captain Ron2009-10-09 06:46:31

  • #132164

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Captain Ron]Neither Brazilian lawyers or real estate agents are required or bound to keep ‘TRUST’ accounts. Ask yourself why?
    [/QUOTE]
    Because lawyers should use the courts trust accounts, supervised by a judge and real estate agents should use the cartôrios trust accounts.
    In case of the lawyer, it’s called “deposito em juizo”.
    In case of real estate, although it does not always happen, the money should go into the account of the cartorio until they liberate the documentation.
    sven2009-10-09 12:41:00

  • #132165

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Bubbles]

    Before I joined I saw an interesting posting a client of a lawyer posted here a while ago detailing how he was lied to and couldn’t trust the lawyer in question, but the topic (Can Brazilan lawyers be trusted?) was removed…

    [/QUOTE]
    Can an american lawyer be trusted ? Or a dutch lawyer ?
    There’s always a bunch of rotten apples. I know the lawyers I’ve met (I’m meeting a lot lately) I trust.
    The question is, are you willing to pay for a lawyer you can trust, or do you want to pay 2 cents at the opera and sit at front row ?

  • #132211

    majazac
    Member

    Shame the topic I mentioned was removed – was interesting reading.

  • #132224

    Ron
    Participant

    That is because the ‘system’ recognises there is a problem with lawyers and real estate agents holding trust accounts.
    The system is saying, “We do not trust YOU.”
    In the USA they are now using lawyers instead of white mice for scientific experiments. There are three reasons for this.
    1. There are more lawyers than white mice.
    2. Research staff do not form emotional attachments to lawyers.
    3. There are some things a white mouse will just not do!

  • #132228

    Gianni
    Member

    Is all well to say that coming here for a vacation, working with a multinational company or being in a financially free situation. All of these in common show a compelling side of Brazil. Frankly the one that people learn to love, then when you hit the real world after your acid trip, it really opens your eyes..
    Ya life is hard here(real life). And I have it good, but it’s a great experience to take with me on the rest of my journey!

  • #134444

    fsjsf7
    Member

    [QUOTE=SolMilreu] I was born here in Brazil and since I hold an Italian citizenship, I had the chance to live in Europe and travel to many other countries.  I have to admit that you are completely right and even though I have a positive attitude towards life and have a good life here, it is impossible not to compare and to close my eyes to these problems.  Most of my friend who have never been abroad do not understand my feelings and I keep my thoughts to myself to avoid discussions.[/QUOTE]
    I feel the same way. I am also Brazilian, moved out of Brazil when I was 16, lived in the US for 8 and in Denmark for 5 and I am ready to move back to Brazil. The things I didn’t like about Brazil are just as bad as they were when I left – and it does annoy me when I find Brazilians who act as if Brazil was the only beautiful place on earth, the only place with friendly people and that no one in their right state of mind would think any differently – usually though, these are ignorant people who have never travelled outside of Brazil. But the same happens in Denmark – there are idiots everywhere you go, although I would expect more from people who are educated – to be able to analyze life from different angles.
    Anyway, it is impossible not to compare places and when I move to Brazil again, I will also be complaining about the absurd cost of electronics! Although I won’t be complaining about the cost of cars… guys, we pay 180% registration tax on cars in Denmark
    And like others mentioned, quality is also another issue in Brazil… perception of quality is also very strange in Brazil… many think Brahma is a quality beer

  • #134516

    gatinha
    Member

    [QUOTE=pedersenpaula] guys, we pay 180% registration tax on cars in Denmark
    [/QUOTE]
    But on the other hand we get a little more out of it on a broad “social” spectrum than Brazilians get out of their taxes!
    Denmarks’ taxes may be sky-high, but there isn’t corruption…just a lot of waste!

  • #137402

    trentsteel
    Member

    Well I’m a latecomer but must add. Never mind the length of my “things to do” list, I can’t pull myself away! :-)
    Find it really interesting the debates, on this and other threads, comparing Brasil and its people with other countries – product prices / quality, consumerism / materialism of the people, etc.
    Personally I find (and of course it’s a generalisation-we must generalise or we can’t discuss-and naturally there are exceptions) that there is a very significant difference in materialism, individualism, and various other traits between brasilians who have and brasilians who do not. As there is in our western society – only that the difference is greater in Brasil.
    While I don’t like to discriminate and do also have more well-to-do Brasilian friends who I rate highly, the brasilians amongst whom I find most grace and warmth tend overwhelmingly to be people whose lives involve a 2-bedroom apartment housing a family of 6, and perhaps a job of 10-12 hours 6 days a week…And still they are amongst the “lucky” ones and deal more gracefully with all of this than almost anyone I’ve ever known in the western world.
    I have soooo many treasured experiences of these people. And there are various other reasons too, but it is most of all for these people that I love Brasil.
    Perhaps I will share some specific stories sometime.
    My only wish (on top of wanting the ongoing flexibility to share my life with people there of course!!!) would be to feel I had more to give in return, and to not have the barrier of my westernness…which is not to say I EVER felt unwelcome, not even once. But despite never having had money by western standards, opportunities I had in Brasil – for starters – made my life look all the more golden by comparison to most of my close friends there..that creates a barrier for which I also cannot possibly blame them. Though the effect of that barrier on most of my friendships there has been minimal anyway.
    I wonder if many of those posting on this forum about what is lacking in Brasil come from above-average financial backgrounds even for western standards? And I will not begrudge you this, better luck to you. But it is undeniable that, from such a background, at least some of what you see lacking is a far cry from what the real problems are faced by your average brasilian. Many of the things that may bother you are altogether off the radar of so many there.
    I only hope that while there’s definitely no problem in discussing what you see lacking, that you are also equally able to appreciate what you have had by comparison. And that you have had the grace and opportunity to spread anything good amongst those you know, in Brasil or anywhere.
    For those who talk about brasilian “laziness”…I couldn’t possibly argue that they do have a different approach to work. I too have experienced the meetings of the “thousand yes-es” followed by inaction. :-) And of course that’s when the meeting manages to get started. hehe.
    But laziness is not where it’s at. Have you not noticed, just as one example, the many brasilians working full-time while studying full-time?? A downright rarity where I come from. And gosh, some of those I knew were on 12 hr days, 6 days a week with 2-3 hours of classes every weeknight!
    In general, the sociopolitical problems in Brasil would be denied by very few, brasileiros and estrangeiros alike. But how I do pray (with fear it cannot happen in this day and age) that in seeking improvements they do not follow any further the western model….
    Brasil, there are other ways! Use o seu jeitinho pra isso…uma boa meta! :-)
    Grace, grace, grace.
    Ao entrar, foi natural me apaixonar. e agora nao posso deixar.

  • #137433

    mastercoop
    Member

    You raise some interesting points. I agree with you that the nicest Brazilians aren’t the middle classes but rather those living more modestly. I do however take issue with some of your other comments. Whilst the average Brazilian faces daily challenges we lucky gringoes do not, and whilst many of these challenges are no fault of theirs, this in of itself shouldn’t be a reason for us gringoes not to comment on these challenges. Much of it derives from a fundamental socio-economic decision made in the west 100 years ago, which was that when the large factories such as those of Ford were set up, the owners such as Ford, realised that to create a class of consumers who could afford the products they are making, they need to be paid enough to afford them. From this we later derived a society where the working classes would be given opportunities to earn relatively decently, and the welfare state later supplemented this in the UK and other countries. Brazil decided to pay barely enough to eat, and continued down this path ever since, with all the attendant problems. Criticising the western model as you do, misses the point.

  • #137447

    trentsteel
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho]You raise some interesting points. I agree with you that the nicest Brazilians aren’t the middle classes but rather those living more modestly. I do however take issue with some of your other comments. Whilst the average Brazilian faces daily challenges we lucky gringoes do not, and whilst many of these challenges are no fault of theirs, this in of itself shouldn’t be a reason for us gringoes not to comment on these challenges. Much of it derives from a fundamental socio-economic decision made in the west 100 years ago, which was that when the large factories such as those of Ford were set up, the owners such as Ford, realised that to create a class of consumers who could afford the products they are making, they need to be paid enough to afford them. From this we later derived a society where the working classes would be given opportunities to earn relatively decently, and the welfare state later supplemented this in the UK and other countries. Brazil decided to pay barely enough to eat, and continued down this path ever since, with all the attendant problems. Criticising the western model as you do, misses the point.[/QUOTE]
    Many thanks Juninho. I didn’t at all mean to say that thesociopolitical problems shouldn’t be discussed – on the contrary, theyshould! And sorry if it seemed I said otherwise.
    What I meant was that things such as lack of cheap electronics (ascommented by others here) just don’t seem much in the way of discussingreal Brasilian problems. :-)
    To your other points, of course what you say above about decisions made by companies at some point in time about what to pay employees, is one element. (though I would also point out the case of western companies going offshore to pay a pittance to factory staff – how does this differ so much to the decision you accuse Brasilians of??).
    Either way thereis obviously so much more to the problems in Brasil, and to the difference between the western modeland the Brasilian situation. It’s also hard to discuss as the topic tends to become, rather unavoidably, one of general social / personal philosophy. And I don’t mind thatdiscussion! ;-) But some are anti getting into it, I guess partly because it can be extremely difficult to find agreement / compromise so it is just thrown in the too hard basket.
    Yes, in my opinion, while there are of course valuable elements in the Western model, it is overall not at all an ideal. Just one factor is simply how very swiftly the western picture has moved so far beyond the local car factory and its employees.

  • #138175

    mastercoop
    Member

    If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.

  • #138178

    Steven
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Juninho]If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.[/QUOTE] I have heard this same sentiment expressed out of the mouths of Brazilians.

  • #138238

    Anonymous

    My wife says this too. But would we be culturally as rich as a planet if Brazil were just another version of Australia?
    Edit: being twee would you swap Gilberto Gil for Rolf Harris? Spanish_tony2010-01-07 04:08:50

  • #138255

    machdonald
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho]If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.[/QUOTE]
    Juninho, I really have trouble with your argument. While the Portuguse ex-colonies were indeed pretty badly run, your comparison between British colonies and Portuguese ones would be much better done on a “south-south” basis; for example Uganda, Nigeria, and Zambia versus Angola, Mozambique and Brazil. Trust me – having lived and worked in all those British colonies – the Portuguese ex-colonies don’t come out at all badly in comparison.

  • #138258

    majazac
    Member

    Not sure you could generalise by comparing the country that colonised…a better reflection would be on the character of the ‘leader’ post-colonisation….had Idi Amin been Australian I’m not sure it would be what it is now!!

    Bubbles2010-01-07 08:28:06

  • #138279

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    What about a ‘west west’.. compare the Yanks to the Brazilians, both are of developing nations except one has free health care and the other one a big army with guns that kill people. Evil%20Smile
    Both are like well toned men and women at the beach wanting to flex their muscle power to the world but in different ways.

  • #138280

    lmaonade5
    Member

    [QUOTE=Spanish_tony]…..would you swap Gilberto Gil for Rolf Harris? [/QUOTE] Never! Not even if the silly kangaroo was deposited by the loose abos on my doorstep gift-wrapped in his tanned hide (let alone tied up or down), or even with the cool cockatoo doing capoeira backflips on its head…..

  • #138287

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=Steven][QUOTE=Juninho]If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.[/QUOTE]

    I have heard this same sentiment expressed out of the mouths of Brazilians.[/QUOTE]It is a little more complicated and a lot more fascinating than that. It is an old story but there is a new book out here, 1808, about the Portuguese court’s arrival and short stay in Brazil that explains it well. It isn’t to hard to figure out where the extractive economy and corruption came from. I just can’t figure out why the average Brazilian views the US as economic imperialists and not the British.
    1808 is in Portuguese but pretty easy to read. Veja level. I recommend it.

  • #138296

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=CanadenseEmPOA] [QUOTE=Juninho]If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.[/QUOTE]

    Juninho, I really have trouble with your argument. While the Portuguse ex-colonies were indeed pretty badly run, your comparison between British colonies and Portuguese ones would be much better done on a “south-south” basis; for example Uganda, Nigeria, and Zambia versus Angola, Mozambique and Brazil. Trust me – having lived and worked in all those British colonies – the Portuguese ex-colonies don’t come out at all badly in comparison.

    [/QUOTE] The British left a relatively sophisticated legacy in even its African colonies, with democracy, independent judiciary, relatively good infrastructure. Sadly the locals post independence proved unworthy of the job. Even Zimbabwe was doing well until Mugabe lost his restraint 10 years ago. The culture however left behind by Portugal left its ex colonies much less prepared for the brave new world.

  • #138347

    enchantbeau
    Member

    I think it a bit simplistic to compare countries like Brazil and USA that have been independant for 200 years and more that are made up of a mostly immigrant population with African countries that have had independance for 40-50 years and were, in their colonial times populated by mostly indegenous people with a superimposed ruling class in charge. Any country with 200 years of independance has had plenty of time to sort itself out. Perhaps the real difference between Brazil and the USA is that the American people have (to borrow from Tom Wolfe) the ‘right stuff’.

  • #138362

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=frank4000][QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=CanadenseEmPOA] [QUOTE=Juninho]If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.[/QUOTE]
    Juninho, I really have trouble with your argument. While the Portuguse ex-colonies were indeed pretty badly run, your comparison between British colonies and Portuguese ones would be much better done on a “south-south” basis; for example Uganda, Nigeria, and Zambia versus Angola, Mozambique and Brazil. Trust me – having lived and worked in all those British colonies – the Portuguese ex-colonies don’t come out at all badly in comparison.
    [/QUOTE]

    The British left a relatively sophisticated legacy in even its African colonies, with democracy, independent judiciary, relatively good infrastructure. Sadly the locals post independence proved unworthy of the job. Even Zimbabwe was doing well until Mugabe lost his restraint 10 years ago. The culture however left behind by Portugal left its ex colonies much less prepared for the brave new world.[/QUOTE]
    nonsense. how many ex-colonies have you lived in or spent time in. the british have left a legacy of broken promises and corrupt governments except in those colonies who broke free early. you need to research history, not the history written by the british
    [/QUOTE]
    Thank God the Portuguese did not settle in what is now the USA!!!!, or Australia, New Zealand, India, and all of the other British colonies.

  • #138364

    aagrin
    Member

    They did go to India didn’t they? I thought they had a small settlement in Goa and you can still fined traces of Portuguese dialect there today.(I think but I’m not sure how true this is, should look it up really)

  • #138365

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=tomjo]They did go to India didn’t they? I thought they had a small settlement in Goa and you can still fined traces of Portuguese dialect there today.(I think but I’m not sure how true this is, should look it up really)[/QUOTE]
    Yes, they did get a foothold in India but it didn’t stick.

  • #138390

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=frank4000] [QUOTE=Juninho][QUOTE=CanadenseEmPOA] [QUOTE=Juninho]If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.[/QUOTE]

    Juninho, I really have trouble with your argument. While the Portuguse ex-colonies were indeed pretty badly run, your comparison between British colonies and Portuguese ones would be much better done on a “south-south” basis; for example Uganda, Nigeria, and Zambia versus Angola, Mozambique and Brazil. Trust me – having lived and worked in all those British colonies – the Portuguese ex-colonies don’t come out at all badly in comparison.

    [/QUOTE] The British left a relatively sophisticated legacy in even its African colonies, with democracy, independent judiciary, relatively good infrastructure. Sadly the locals post independence proved unworthy of the job. Even Zimbabwe was doing well until Mugabe lost his restraint 10 years ago. The culture however left behind by Portugal left its ex colonies much less prepared for the brave new world.[/QUOTE]

    nonsense. how many ex-colonies have you lived in or spent time in. the british have left a legacy of broken promises and corrupt governments except in those colonies who broke free early. you need to research history, not the history written by the british
    [/QUOTE] Lots is the answer. The British cannot be held responsible for the corruption of successor independent governments. Canada and Australia broke free late as it were, and aren’t exactly disaster cases, nor Hong Kong, or New Zealand. Compare South Africa to Mozambique, Botswana to Angola. I know where I’d rather live.

  • #138587

    enchantbeau
    Member

    As I said earlier but maybe didn’t make myself clear. The Portugeuse never left Brazil they declared Independance and became Brazilians. The British never left the USA, they got fed up paying the King of England’s taxes so fought a war, won independance and became Americans. I appreciate this is a very basic view of history but I just wanted to show the difference between the USA and Brazil (and Australia, Canada etc) and the African and Asian countries where the British and Portuguese were imperialist invaders not settlers. delco2010-01-13 08:35:54

  • #138589

    trentsteel
    Member

    Definitely agree the history is interesting and plays a part in any country, though so many different parts of that history have an impact of course. Maybe some of it was simply who already had the means to take advantage of the industrial revolution when it happened? Maybe hotter climates were more prone to some social mess? Tongue
    And I have, like others commented here, also heard various times brasilians talking about portuguese “bagunçados” and the flimsy foundations they laid.
    But either way,explanations through history can only go so far in making improvements to the current situation in any country….

  • #138591

    majazac
    Member

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] [QUOTE=tomjo]They did go to India didn’t they? I thought they had a small settlement in Goa and you can still fined traces of Portuguese dialect there today.(I think but I’m not sure how true this is, should look it up really) [/QUOTE]
    Yes, they did get a foothold in India but it didn’t stick.
    [/QUOTE] The WHOLE of Goa was Portuguese until 1960….so they outlasted the English there. In fact Goans born there before 1960 are entiltled to a Portuguese passport. Regarding Portuguese being spoken there, it’s not taught in the schooling system anymore, but but is prevalent in the ‘Old Goan’ community ie families who were there from the old days, and not those that say moved to Goa from other states. A good indication of a Goan background for English-born Indians is a surname of ‘Pereira’, ‘De xxx’, D’xxxx, etc Portugal also at various points in time had Malaysia, Macau, Mozambique, etc.

  • #138615

    Paulo
    Participant

    In my teens I went to East Timor. The Portuguese were still there but it was quiet and considered a good posting.
    The soldiers told me that the really bad posting was to Guinea.
    I remember it well because they had a beer there called Laurentina which was 10% alcohol.
    A nice white wine called Casalinho was my favourite and I found it in Macau but I have never seen it in Portugal.

  • #138644

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    The history of Brazil is interesting. Being British nobody in History class ever told me about this..
    From what Ive heard Brazil declared independence because the British loaned them the money to pay off the Portuguese Empire. Id like to read up on this in more depth but I believe Portugal was also in debt to Britain at this time. Hence.. you can permanently cripple Portugal by taking away a resource it cannot control, while knowing it owes you money thus breaking down a neighbouring Empire that naively trusted you!
    Britain was a bit like Polonius.
    Britain then persuaded Brazil to cripple Paraguay, which worked. ‘The war of the triple alliance’. This could be called taking advantage of the industrial revolution by outsourcing.

  • #138645

    micko
    Member

    dirtbox – There is more than a bit about this in 1808, by Laurentino Gomes, a recently published history of the Portuguese court’s move to Brazil, sailing under British escort. Once in S. America the British gained exclusive trade rights, once restriced to Portugal, with Brazil. The book is in Portuguese, but easy to read.

  • #138648

    PEARLYGURL
    Member

    britain rules

  • #138674

    majazac
    Member

    Strange to think that if it wasn’t for the British, and an American had preceeded Charles Miller, we may well have been seeing American football on the beaches, and not ‘football’ football….

  • #138689

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=Bubbles]

    Strange to think that if it wasn’t for the British, and an American had preceeded Charles Miller, we may well have been seeing American football on the beaches, and not ‘football’ football….

    [/QUOTE] Go wash your mouth out with soap !!!!!! ShockedBig%20smile

  • #138693

    Sanchezrawl7
    Member

    [QUOTE=DUNGA]dirtbox – There is more than a bit about this in 1808, by Laurentino Gomes, a recently published history of the Portuguese court’s move to Brazil, sailing under British escort. Once in S. America the British gained exclusive trade rights, once restriced to Portugal, with Brazil. The book is in Portuguese, but easy to read. [/QUOTE]
    Thanks for that, I’m already doing a search.

  • #138725

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=delco]As I said earlier but maybe didn’t make myself clear. The Portugeuse never left Brazil they declared Independance and became Brazilians. The British never left the USA, they got fed up paying the King of England’s taxes so fought a war, won independance and became Americans. I appreciate this is a very basic view of history but I just wanted to show the difference between the USA and Brazil (and Australia, Canada etc) and the African and Asian countries where the British and Portuguese were imperialist invaders not settlers. [/QUOTE] It’s a bit more complicated. In Africa the British (and other nationalities such as the Dutch) were settlers as well as invaders, such as the Boers in South Africa, the British in Zimbabwe etc. Moreover the Americas were arguably subject to genocide, though the intention of the ‘invaders’ was probably not wholesale genocide.

  • #139300

    trentsteel
    Member

    hi, there’s a lot in this and other topics about the crazy legal system and bureaucracy etc in Brasil, and I just can’t help sharing a story from Australia….Brasil is not the only place crazy stuff happens!!!
    Basically a previous resident has abandoned an unregistered car in my yard. Nearly 3 months and despite many many many attempts on my part no luck in him removing it
    So, thinking it’s a relatively straightforward situation and trying to do the right thing, I contacted the authorities to check the correct thing to do. And that’s resulted in nothing but an unforeseebly psycho roundabout of phone calls and emails.
    I have now spoken to the police (5 times, 3 different departments), the local government council (6 times), the state public trustee (2 times), the small claims tribunal (basically the people’s court; 3 times), the residential tenancies authority (5 times), 3 towing companies, my member of state parliament (3 times), the state legal service (3 times; at least such a service does exist, but still a dead end), the state transport department, and another community legal service (where I waited 2.5 hours for 5 minutes with someone who told me only that they didn’t know).
    And for the privilege, some of them suggest I contact one of the others, but all of them tell me that I can do absolutely nothing at all without genuinely risking anything from a significant council fine + up to 2 months’ storage fees (if I remove the car to the road), to a theft charge, to a claim (that could even win, so they say) against me by the owner for replacement of the vehicle.
    Im feeling like I must be in the twilight zone……If this is not psychotic law, I don’t know what is. And that’s in Australia.

  • #139352

    mastercoop
    Member

    I’d take it out your yard late at night to a nearby street. If anyone asks tell them it must have been stolen. Then refuse to let them put it back unless he pays a very high rental fee. If they quote you any laws, quote them some other regulations and refer the matter to one of the departments you’ve liaised with cop[ying in all the others. Wrap the red tape round all their necks and watch them strangle themselves in it. I’ve tried this before and it’s a successful strategy in this type of scenario. You turn your problem into their problem, albeit with a bit of cheating at the beginning.

  • #139363

    micko
    Member

    I believe the same conundrum exists in California but if you push the car out on the street then report an abandoned vehicle it gets towed away pronto … CA jeito …

  • #139401

    trentsteel
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho]I’d take it out your yard late at night to a nearby street. If anyone asks tell them it must have been stolen. Then refuse to let them put it back unless he pays a very high rental fee. If they quote you any laws, quote them some other regulations and refer the matter to one of the departments you’ve liaised with cop[ying in all the others. Wrap the red tape round all their necks and watch them strangle themselves in it. I’ve tried this before and it’s a successful strategy in this type of scenario. You turn your problem into their problem, albeit with a bit of cheating at the beginning.[/QUOTE]
    Thanks. Yeah like you said just towing it to some road myself is basically what I’m looking at
    Still makes me nervous, given what all the authorities say, but what else to do. I’ve already expended far too much time on it – if only I could charge the creature for my time!
    One does have to laugh when modern law in civilised society bluntly says there’s simply nothing to do even though any sane person would call that unjust.

  • #139484

    mastercoop
    Member

    That’s why on these occasions it’s impossible both to observe the law and preserve your sanity.

  • #140077

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=angejh]hi, there’s a lot in this and other topics about the crazy legal system and bureaucracy etc in Brasil, and I just can’t help sharing a story from Australia….Brasil is not the only place crazy stuff happens!!!
    ……
    Im feeling like I must be in the twilight zone……If this is not psychotic law, I don’t know what is. And that’s in Australia.
    [/QUOTE] Certain aspects never change…

    If the law supposes that, said Mr. Bumble, the law is a assa idiot. If that’s the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experienceby experience. Charles Dickens (1812–70)

  • #140084

    enchantbeau
    Member

    [QUOTE=Esprit][QUOTE=angejh]hi, there’s a lot in this and other topics about the crazy legal system and bureaucracy etc in Brasil, and I just can’t help sharing a story from Australia….Brasil is not the only place crazy stuff happens!!!
    ……
    Im feeling like I must be in the twilight zone……If this is not psychotic law, I don’t know what is. And that’s in Australia.
    [/QUOTE] Certain aspects never change…

    If the law supposes that, said Mr. Bumble, the law is a assa idiot. If that’s the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experienceby experience. Charles Dickens (1812–70)

    [/QUOTE] One presumes Mr. Bumbles views on the law might have been coloured by his own greed and malevolence (he was the overseer of the workhouse in which Oliver Twist asked ‘can I have some more?’

  • #140095

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=delco] One presumes Mr. Bumbles views on the law might have been coloured by his own greed and malevolence (he was the overseer of the workhouse in which Oliver Twist asked ‘can I have some more?'[/QUOTE]

    Aye, there’s the rub; Who guards the guardians?

    Mr. Bumble shared the same dilemma faced by modern day politicians that preside over the entitlement culture. Can I have some more!

  • #140168

    mastercoop
    Member

    Isn’t it the local authorities’ child protection units?

  • #140172

    ssdada
    Member

    There’s a really good speech by Noam Chomsky called the “Unipolar Moment”, where he goes into great detail describing the political history of Brazil’s inability to get an organized government. It’s available for free online, and it’s veeeeeery interesting.

  • #143950

    taglas
    Member

    I think theese things are worth putting up with , a few less consumer durables for greater human warmth . At least the women in Brazil all dont susbsribe to the L’Oreal motto “B’cos I’m worth it” , maybe its cos they havent been conditioned into being worthy princesses by prolonged exposure to Sex and The City.

  • #143957

    taglas
    Member

    In fact I have heard that when JP’ers are abroad that the pray in the direction of JP
    tres drole

  • #143961

    taglas
    Member
    1. Very inefficient publiuc and private sector;
    2. For locals, long hours, low pay (expats are different);
    3. high risk country (robbings etc);
    4. unbelievably steep class differences;
    5. lacking infrastructure;
    6. High prices for low quality products.
    Well the private sector promises a lot and delivers very little, look at the expensive shambles in the UK public services and at the Home Office when Siemens tried to install a new more efficent IT system all the records disappeared, same at the BBC, staff find it hard to make a phonecall to another dept. after Siemens stained it up.
    Look at the unbelievable incompetence at Homeland Security and Fema over Sep 11 and Hurricane Katriona, joined up govt. me arse and parsley.
    Lots of class differece and snobbery in the UK and Irealnd , the haves and have nots live in different worlds, as for the US , didnt Dylan say that one half of the country get to drive a Cadallic while the other half lives in a box.
    In terms of infrastructure British Rail set a new speed record in 2004, which the French SNCF had reached in 1951. We have had more train accidents than the rest of western europe.
    Ever tried to take a train in Ireland ? dont bother, India and Nigeria have better trains.
    High prices for low quality products, ever use a tradesman in the Uk or Ireland ? I hear the chink of spurs and stirrups, bleedin cowboys.
    In London they want a lotta money for crap food, ever tasted a soggy UK motorway sandwhich for £5 ? ever tried to drive on a UK motorway ? logjam, unless u go at night. Motorways in Ireland , where are they ? I aint seen none, the Celtic Tiger has failed to put tarmac on the B roads, dont hold your breath whilst looking for a pavement, non existent.
    London Underground is more expensive per mile than concorde
    As for crime you can get stabbed for nothin in the UK, well for been a teenager who happens to look sideways at another teenager. Or why not try walking thru a city centre in Ireland after 8 o clock in the evening , the youths play this game called Sevens , the seventh passer by gets jumped on ,you’ll end up in a coma, they dont even mug u for your money, they jump on your head for kicks. at least in Brazil they can plead absolute poverty for their motivation.
    As for corruption , I had a friend who served prison time for sub letting his public sector flat , yet the politicians scammed hundreds and thousands from the public purse for maintaining their castles and jack squat happened to them.
    Yeah i know that the sections of the Brazilian state murder Brazilian children, but armies from the developed civilised world have a track record of murdering children in the third world.
    So please lets stop this pretence that we are more civilised than the rest of the world.
  • #143962

    taglas
    Member

    [QUOTE=tamashin][QUOTE=delco]How much would a detached house with private garden cost in Hertfordshire? £300,000 at least. You would need to earn a salary of £75,000 to buy one.

    Schools aren’t free they are paid for through taxation. If you are single without children you still pay for everyone else’s childrens education. Comparing Hertfordshire ( I lived in Tring quite some time ago, similar sized town to where I live in Goais, and a better comparison than Mid Wales) to Sao Paulo isn’t really a runner is it?
    Also, you seem to be saying you are now in the UK (‘where we are’ etc) so if life is better for you there – go for it – for those of us whose are lives are better in Brazil, why not at least once try to understand why this is so.

    [/QUOTE]
    Ho, Ho we were neighboursShockedit is indeed a small worldLOL.
    What about “The Wicked Lady”, Wheathampstead? They had special ales there you couldnt mention on this site without offending the ladies.
    And will I ever go back to St Albans?
    Who could forget Letchworth Garden City and Welwyn Garden City (a lot of people actually) and dear old Hitchin?
    Then there was that city which a giant round a bout surrounded by eight mini round a bouts; what was that about?
    Thanks for bringing it all back.
    In Brazil there are death squads, in the south east of England there are loads of ignorant eejits reading the Daily Mail, forming lynch mobs and burning out pediatricians bcos theyve mistaken them for paedophiles- so much for the great education avaialable in the UK, yeah available to those who can afford to move house to get into the catchment area for a good school and then afford the university fees.

  • #143968

    mastercoop
    Member

    The roundabout is in Hemel Hempstead and is 1 big roundabout surrounded by 6 smaller ones – it’s known as the magic roundabout. It must have been invented by an Irishman! funbutler, you’re either off your rocker and/or a troll. You make some good p[oints, like tradesmen in London, but comparing Brazil’s deathsquads to supposed armies of the developed world killing kids is beyond ludicrous. If you at least try to appear sane and rational people may take you seriously and engage in discussion.

  • #143969

    jonathand
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho]The roundabout is in Hemel Hempstead and is 1 big roundabout surrounded by 6 smaller ones – it’s known as the magic roundabout. [/QUOTE] …or…. it’s the one in Swindon (which is more famous and 1 year older)… or… it’s the one in Colchester… or… it’s the one in High Wycombe…. ALL known as The Magic Roundabout. The Swindon one is the only one I knew about previously Smile

  • #143970

    taglas
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho]If you really want to get to the nub of it, it’s controvercial, but the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself. The key is the culture which founded the country. The Portuguese ex-colonies such as Brazil were run very badly by and large, as compared with the English colonies. These problems have run right through to the present day. Compare the Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique and Brazil to the USA, Canada, Australia and decide yourself who is to blame.[/QUOTE]
    Rather selective in the colonies you choose to mention.
    What about Nigeria, Zimbabwe, not to mention that stellar example of post-colonial tranquility Pakistan ? Oh and the former British protectorate of Palestine, its a real barrel of laughs down their way. Then closer to home N>ireland the most reactionary backward hole in the Western world , the only western country aside from the US where politicians openly talk about converting gay people.
    While we are there hows about that bastard colony the United States ? per capita it has the highest prison population in the world, outstripping Maoist China. wa-hey
    And as for Angola’s state , you have to see this in its historical context, the US was willing to back Aparteid South Africa to invade it, to ward off the threat of the Cubans. The Angolans are not the authors of their own misfortune, but the meddling of those civilised western folk.

  • #143973

    taglas
    Member

    [QUOTE=Juninho] but comparing Brazil’s deathsquads to supposed armies of the developed world killing kids is beyond ludicrous. If you at least try to appear sane and rational people may take you seriously and engage in discussion. [/QUOTE]
    A corpse is a corpse regardless of whose done the killing ,be it a terrorist or paramiltary organisation or wheteher youre a kid killed by an army from the supposedly civilised world, as is the case with children murdered by a plastic bullet courtesy of the British army or by the Israeli Defence Force or cleansed by the death squads in Rio, whats the difference ?
    At least the Brazilan kids are recognised as legitimate victims whereas the IDF or the British Parachute Regiment will insinuate you are a terrorist or that you would have grown up to be a terrorist. Did the Parachute regiment not drive around Derry City with “Paras 13- Bogside Nil” written on the side of the Landrover the day after they shot 13 civil rights protesters dead in the Bogside.Racist pigs.
    I know the victims of British terror dont rate a mention in the British press or generate the same kinda sympathy as the children in Britain mudered by the IRA , here is a reminder of some of the nameless

    13-year-old Brian Stewart of Turf Lodge, West Belfast.
    Died in hospital six days after he was struck by a British Army plastic bullet yards from his home. His inquest heard that the soldier did not know the rules governing the use of baton rounds.


    11-year-old Stephen McConomy of Derry City.
    Died three days after being hit by a plastic bullet in April 1982. Witnesses said Stephen was standing with his hands in his pockets when he was struck from a distance of 17 feet.


    11-year-old Frank Rowntree of West Belfast.
    Died four days after being struck by an allegedly doctored rubber bullet in April 1972 fired by a member of the British Army. His inquest heard a British Army representative admit he did not know at what distance it was permissible to fire a rubber bullet gun or at which part of the body it should be aimed.


    18-year-old Strabane Republican Tobias Molloy.
    Killed by a rubber bullet fired by a soldier at the Camels Hump border crossing in July 1972. Rubber bullets were fired at youths attending his funeral.


    10-year-old Stephan Geddis of West Belfast.
    Died in August 1975, two days after being struck in the head by a rubber bullet.


    15-year-old Paul Whitters of Derry City.
    Died in April 1981, 10 days after being struck in the head by a plastic bullet fired by the RUC.


    14-year-old Julie Livingstone of Lenadoon Estate, West Belfast.
    Struck by a plastic bullet as she returned from a shop near her home in May 1981 and died the next day. Witnesses said rioting in the area began AFTER she was shot.


    12-year-old Carol Ann Kelly of Twinbrook, West Belfast.
    Struck by a plastic bullet near her home in May 1981 and died two days later. She too was returning from a store and was carrying a carton of milk when she was shot.


    15-year-old Seamus Duffy from Oldpark, North Belfast.
    Was struck in the rib cage as he ran from RUC vehicles in the New Lodge area in August 1989. He died shortly afterwards.

    Gotta get away from the whole idea that God is an Englishman and that the British nation state is inherently more civilised than other nation states and hence has the alienable right to invade other people’s countries and bomb them back to the stone age. I know the RAF has a long and proud history of bombing Iraq as they did back in 1920 , Sadaam wasnt the first to use chemical weapons as Churchill insisted they use mustard gas back in the day.You cant bomb the third world and not expect the third world to bomb you back, if British politicians can ever get their heads around that rather simple premise we will be safe travelling to work on the Tube in the mornings, politics is like physcis, for every action there is a reaction.

    Maybe you missed the leaked footage of the kids shot up by an american helicopter gunship in Baghdad ? you can hear the soldiers laughing as they murder Iraqis, the ubermensch lording their superiority over the savage native untermensch.

    Stick that in your pipe and smoke it

    funbutler2010-04-12 23:53:16

  • #143974

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    Yeah, and what about the Romans – what have they ever done for us?

  • #143975

    taglas
    Member

    popular front of Judea ? splitters

  • #143979

    majazac
    Member

    FunButler..it’s a smaller world. I also live in St Albans (I’m selling up there now with the intent to shift to Rio)…and played cricket for Wheathampstead in the mid-90’s…

  • #143984

    mastercoop
    Member

    I’m not that far from St Albans either. Briefly, the Rio death squads deliberately and over a long period went out with the primary objective and intention of murdering large amounts of children, and succeeded. Bringing up politically ambiguous clashes of the past such as NIreland, with small amounts of deaths, where there was no primary objective to murder children, not to mention armed insurgents, and trying to equate them is so much sophistry. As for the colonialists, Britain left all those countries as democracies, and in Nigeria and Pakistan’s case they both recently saw peaceful transitions of power following free and fair elections. Mugabe is a criminal who will hopefully die as soon as possible to bring an end to his brutal and tragically murderous rule.

  • #143990

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    Admittedly it must be difficult to imagine the motivation and emotion behind the atrocities that are strewn across the pages of history; from King Herod’s slaughter of the innocents to the slaughter by the Rio death squads. And in between we have the holocausts in the Ukraine, Poland and Germany, not forgetting the biggest mass murderer of all time, China’s Mao. Perhaps it’s even more difficult to understand all of this when cosseted in the damp and leafy quietude of somewhere like St. Albans.

    In fact I think most of us live in a St. Albans somewhere on the planet where we just read about Man’s inhumanity to Man. We are a disgusting species, the ace predator with pretensions of a higher intent. We create Gods and laws to placate conscience and the pretence to superior morals while wishing to kill all those who are not of like mind. We are territorial, tribal, racist and greedy; the attributes that have forged the delicate veil of civilisation that conceals our underlying boiling aggression. Man’s nature is a paradox.

    Even today as we migrate around the world in pursuit of individual happiness we see trade wars and actual wars. We concern ourselves with local muggings, murder and social injustice while, in our leafy quietude, worry about the nuclear threats from Iran and North Korea and in particular the possibility of terrorist nuclear devices. The best that can be said of Man is that it is not an endangered species along with the happy thought that we can lose millions overnight and yet survive.

  • #143996

    mastercoop
    Member

    an interesting (and rather gloomy) take on lifeUnhappy

  • #144002

    815
    Member

    Espirit-
    One may see them as misguided but I don’t believe there is any vagueness to the motivations of the slaughter of “innocents” in Rio.

  • #144022

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    Surely the motivation is obvious. It‚Äôs the same as clearing out a rat infestation. Sounds harsh, doesn‚Äôt it, and it‚Äôs barbaric, but that’s what it was, apparently. Oh sure, we think of children as young little Johnny making his way in the world, growing up, going to school, playing games and being nurtured by loving parents; our future, our immortality. Then along comes the naughty policemen and guns him down. The kids were not Jews, Muslims, gays, gypsies, Catholics or any other previously persecuted sector of society, so why would they do that? Are bullets less expensive than the cost of an entitlement culture for the poor, the helpless or the clueless?

  • #144025

    815
    Member

    I don’t see those words as harsh or barbaric. Just true.

  • #146615

    In the USA it is cheaper, more organised, the dogs bark louder, there is less crime, eveything works etc… Are you sure? This isnt the case in the UK?

  • #146676

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=scottyh]In the USA it is cheaper, more organised, the dogs bark louder, there is less crime, eveything works etc… Are you sure? This isnt the case in the UK?[/QUOTE] Other than the bit about dogs barking louder in what sense is this not the case in the UK?

  • #147750

    Açucena
    Member

    I am repeating my post here and seeking an answer.

    hello, I am probably the oldest person here in the forum. I just joined.
    I wanted to know if retiring in Brazil is a good situation.
    I would be living alone, I speak some portugues, I do have a permanent visa because my ex was brasilian.
    I would probably go to Santa Catarina, Florianopolis.
    I wanted to know if 600k dollars, is enough to carry me through my life.
    I am 55 now, and I am extremely frugal.
    I won’t buy a car.
    Internet I will need but will take my computer from the usa.
    I plan to live a simple life, and not going over board shopping for clothing
    and too many expenses.
    Can someone advise me if 600k dollars is enough to live in Brasil? That is all the cash I have after I sell my home.
    sincerely,
    Robotica

  • #147831

    I would say .. yes.. probabaly!

  • #149234

    Anonymous

    Just wanted to sympathize with you. I would love to go back home, but we are stuck here for a bit longer. At least I can say we tried something new, but really, I am through with it!!

  • #149237

    Steven
    Participant

    [QUOTE=suzaries]Just wanted to sympathize with you. I would love to go back home, but we are stuck here for a bit longer. At least I can say we tried something new, but really, I am through with it!![/QUOTE] My assignment lasted three years but now I’m back home. The kids can play in the streets, we don’t have to lock our doors, public schools are great, costs are low, and life is easier. For some reason there are some people who actually like São Paulo but I can’t understand why. It’s not like the city even has any culture. It’s just a big, dirty, crime-ridden, congested, smelly business city.

  • #149238

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    Luke 23:34

  • #149258

    Andrewfroboy
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Esprit] Luke 23:34[/QUOTE]

  • #149271

    Anonymous

    Yeah, sure everything is better in the US. The grass is greener, the streets are cleaner. Even the fools are more stupid.

  • #149431

    Steven
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Dom Pedro]Yeah, sure everything is better in the US. The grass is greener, the streets are cleaner. Even the fools are more stupid.[/QUOTE] Yes, perhaps you are right. I’ve heard the same thing was said by the hundreds of thousands of illegal Brasilians in the U.S. as they were waiting for the cover of darkness to cross the Mexican border for a better life in the land of fools.

  • #149433

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Steven][QUOTE=Dom Pedro]Yeah, sure everything is better in the US. The grass is greener, the streets are cleaner. Even the fools are more stupid.[/QUOTE] Yes, perhaps you are right. I’ve heard the same thing was said by the hundreds of thousands of illegal Brasilians in the U.S. as they were waiting for the cover of darkness to cross the Mexican border for a better life in the land of fools. [/QUOTE] Fools looking for a better life in the land of fools. Makes sense to me. Dom Pedro2010-07-10 16:21:22

  • #149523

    katia Ienny
    Member

    In the USA I can buy super high performance 285/35/19 inch tires for about $300/each. In Sao Paulo, the best price for the same is about 2,000R each.

  • #149710

    zackcwb
    Member

    I don’t know what is crazy 300 or 2,000 LOL

  • #149787

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Larry LaRose]In the USA I can buy super high performance 285/35/19 inch tires for about $300/each. In Sao Paulo, the best price for the same is about 2,000R each.

    [/QUOTE] Why would you want super high performance tyres in Sao Paulo? Will they make standing in traffic jams more comfortable?

  • #150086

    boggss
    Member

    So you sold your soul for big bucks – you have only yourself to blame as you reap the consequences of a bad decision. Of course some of your views and comments have some validity and others are merely subjective. The public sector is extremely efficient in those sectors it wishes to be effective in – Tax collection,Speeding and traffic violations and other “Big Brother” activities.
    It worries me not a jot that my 3 empregadas work 12 hour days. I employ3 maids who between them do less work than my Filipina maid in London who works 8 hrs a day but gets paid more than the 3 Brasileiras together!
    London these days is a nightmare for many people with whole neighbourhoods and streets being almost “No Go” areas. If you tackle and hurt a mugger in the streets of London YOU will probably end up in jail.
    My neighbour here , an ex Vietnam Ranger vet , well over 60 yrs of age,
    was broken into 3 years ago. He caught the felon in the act and in the ensuing struggle broke the villain’s neck. The local Chief of Police noted the crime as accidental death – Bert never even appeared in court! He was quietly congratulated.
    So there are class differences in all parts of the world – big deal!
    Infrastructure is lacking – granted. But sometimes that can be part of the charm of a country. It is for me. I don’t want an 8 lane freeway anywhere near me! or a McDonalds, Walmart or Tesco or whatever. Power supply where I live is iffy – but my generator kicks in immediately .
    We buy very little in the way of “Made in Brazil” stuff.Either bringing things in ourselves every 6 months or so, or have my visiting friends/family bring whatever we may happen to need at the time, usually chocolate and hard to find malt whisky!
    I like higher prices – it helps keeps out the riff-raff who seem to get everywhere these days. I dislike swarms of backpackers invading my little piece of paradise while swigging cans of lager beer, which, in my opinion, is far too cheap. They usually leave their cans, wrappers and other detritus on the beach in front of my house!
    Apart from that, Brazil is just fine. Cosily third world and an easy place to live in. But I have no idea what it might be like to have to work here!

  • #150089

    ClaudePeebles
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Biggsy]…I have no idea what it might be like to have to work here! [/QUOTE] It ain’t so easy…

  • #150090

    aagrin
    Member

    Where in Brazil are you Ronnie?
    tomjo2010-07-21 16:36:40

  • #150097

    boggss
    Member

    Hey Tomjo!
    In a secret hideaway on the beach somewhere between Cabo Frio and Buzios.
    it’s kinda nice if a little isolated – but that’s what I prefer.

  • #150135

    815
    Member

    Biggsy-
    Sounds to me that you’ve got it made!!!

  • #150148

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=Biggsy]
    We buy very little in the way of “Made in Brazil” stuff.Either bringing things in ourselves every 6 months or so, or have my visiting friends/family bring whatever we may happen to need at the time, usually chocolate and hard to find malt whisky!

    I like higher prices – it helps keeps out the riff-raff who seem to get everywhere these days. I dislike swarms of backpackers invading my little piece of paradise while swigging cans of lager beer, which, in my opinion, is far too cheap. They usually leave their cans, wrappers and other detritus on the beach in front of my house!

    Apart from that, Brazil is just fine. Cosily third world and an easy place to live in. But I have no idea what it might be like to have to work here!
    [/QUOTE] Nice points Biggsy. I remember six years ago when the real was cheap we had the Argentine backpackers camping at the beach, digging holes to piss and crap in. They also left a bunch of trash. These guys are few and far between now that the Real is way up. The locals here always cheer when the cops or an unknown kills one of the crack heads. I too bring in tons of stuff avoiding the junk in the local stores as much as possible. We are fotunate not having to work here. The hours are long and the wages are low. Cheers, GBOF

  • #150149

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Dom Pedro] [QUOTE=Larry LaRose]In the USA I can buy super high performance 285/35/19 inch tires for about $300/each. In Sao Paulo, the best price for the same is about 2,000R each. [/QUOTE]

     

    Why would you want super high performance tyres in Sao Paulo? Will they make standing in traffic jams more comfortable?

    [/QUOTE]

  • #150156

    majazac
    Member

    [QUOTE=Dom Pedro][QUOTE=Larry LaRose]In the USA I can buy super high performance 285/35/19 inch tires for about $300/each. In Sao Paulo, the best price for the same is about 2,000R each.

    [/QUOTE] Why would you want super high performance tyres in Sao Paulo? Will they make standing in traffic jams more comfortable? [/QUOTE] Come on, haven’t you sat in a bar late at night and seen those boy racers doing their emergency hand brake-turns, crunching through the gears and accelerating away with ‘music’ blaring at full blast……then repeating every 5 mins all night ??!!

  • #152402

    Anonymous

    It is always interesting to check back into this forum, and follow the heated discussions.
    You guys make me so homesick for Brazil!
    I grew up there, and well remember my mother bringing back suitcases of electronics, clothing, and name brands from the US, lol. One of her friends ran an “Importadora” with items largely from my mother’s regular travels
    Maybe I got used to the crappy “Industria National” items when I was young, so it doesn’t bother me so much. Not sure if I’ve gotten spoiled and lazy in my 20 years away…I don’t think any human creature likes having less comfort than they had before, but there are trade offs.
    When last I checked in, we had chosen to move to Dallas TX, instead of roughing it in the nascent financial world of Brazil.
    Here’s an update on that decision:
    POSITIVES:
    1) Apartments: the least expensive I have seen in a major US city, which probably means in the “advanced” economies. You can easily find a beautiful new 2500 SF apartment for $2500 – $3500 a month, which includes top of the line luxury granite/marble everything, with concierge/doorman health club ammenities.
    2) Produce is dirt cheap, cheapest I have found yet. I think it’s the proximity to the farms and to Mexico. Avocados at 20-25c, tomatoes less than $1lb, and passable $2.99 bottles of merlot to be bought at Walmart. If you want to be an alcoholic, Texas seems to be your best bet
    3) No state income tax, which brings your rate to just the US federal rates (ours about to jump next year, but would be far worse in NYC, where the top bracket would now be paying MORE than the UK, at over 52%, and it may go higher
    4) Lots of decent work available, at big city wages. My husband found a job at the top of his wage bracket, and it is for a firm 3 blocks from the apartment. He can walk. There are a growing number of hedge funds and other financial firms opening in the city, as well as lots of jobs in IT, Energy and Healtchare industries in the Dallas/Fort Worth corridor, which includes Irving.
    NEGATIVES:
    1) Dallas is an ugly, soul-less city without any natural beauty whatsoever. No hills, no greenery, and a flowing sewer of a river called the Trinity running through a canal which occasionally floods and threatens great damage.
    Every morning I would wake up there, look out my beautiful floor to ceiling windows, and the words “whitened sepulchres” would spring to mind. I don’t mean to be ungrateful, and I am truly appreciative of every day I live in peace and with abundance, but you can’t help how your spirit reacts.
    2) Crazy aggressive drivers who will kill you if you give them a chance. Worse than NYC or NJ: I know, because I just moved from there.
    3) Extremely high crime. If you want to compare to Brazil, there is a useful site where you can look up car break-ins and thefts (BMV and UUV) which occur by the block and hour. I noted many of these are happening at noon, in the nicest parts of town.
    Home invasions are bad as well.
    Here’s the site where you can check for yourself:
    http://dallas.everyblock.com/crime-reports/filter/streets/cedar-springs-rd/2200-2299/8-blocks/
    4) Extremely unfriendly and unsophisticated people. The problem with Dallas is not that they are redneck. Actually you see many inter-racial couples there, more than I saw in Connecticut. They are all about money and ostentatious display of wealth and expensive cars. However, the ability to wield a credit card has not translated into the ability to have even a 15 minute conversation, and the ones in my area seemed unable to assimilate people from other parts of the United States, much less other countries. They were very cliquey with those they went to college with (mostly SMU)
    5) Godawful weather. Even the locals complain non-stop. It goes from furnace like 105 degrees in the summer to too many days of 20 degrees and ice in the winter. On more than a few days, it would actually be warmer at my farm in Nova Scotia than in Dallas, by a difference of 15 degrees! Who would think it would be so frigid and nasty so close to the Mexican border, but it is.
    I tried to sign up for a Brazilian meetup, but I never got a response. Maybe the Brazilians have gone back home already. I wouldn’t blame them
    So, there it is, the epitome of the “Brazilian Hell” joke, where it turns out Brazil is one of the better places to be, if you realize all countries are hell anyway.
    For now I’m back in Nova Scotia, where it is about 75, breezy and sunny all summer long, where the locals are sweet and polite, and the local peaches make you want to cry. However when I go to the local open mike and listen to the pretty abysmal country music covers, I keep thinking of my childhood, with my uncles and cousins playing Tom Jobim and Noel Rosa on warm guitars, and I realize it’s still not home.
    Here’s hoping I make it back some day, if I can ever get my husband to get over his paranoia of Brazilian crime. (and yes, I’ve noticed that so many of the positive expat posters here are British…and this has been true since I was a girl at the British School in Rio. The Brits were always more willing to “go native” and to adjust to Brazil with all it’s quirks, than the Americans, who walled themselves off at the “Escola Americana” in Gavea.
    As with the Brazilian lust for foreign electronics, and complaints about the lines and corruption, I guess some things never change!digiwench2010-08-27 20:36:30

  • #152478

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Steven][QUOTE=suzaries]Just wanted to sympathize with you. I would love to go back home, but we are stuck here for a bit longer. At least I can say we tried something new, but really, I am through with it!![/QUOTE] My assignment lasted three years but now I’m back home. The kids can play in the streets, we don’t have to lock our doors, public schools are great, costs are low, and life is easier. For some reason there are some people who actually like São Paulo but I can’t understand why. It’s not like the city even has any culture. It’s just a big, dirty, crime-ridden, congested, smelly business city. [/QUOTE] Hi Steven. I am quite jealous. Our 4 year old daughter has asthma (given to her by this um, lovely, city) and the past 2 weeks here have been horrible as I listen to her cough up her lungs every few minutes. Its like she smokes 2 packs a day. I can’t wait to get out of this place. suzaries2010-08-29 18:41:21

  • #152500

    Steven
    Participant

    [QUOTE=suzaries][QUOTE=Steven][QUOTE=suzaries]Just wanted to sympathize with you. I would love to go back home, but we are stuck here for a bit longer. At least I can say we tried something new, but really, I am through with it!![/QUOTE] My assignment lasted three years but now I’m back home. The kids can play in the streets, we don’t have to lock our doors, public schools are great, costs are low, and life is easier. For some reason there are some people who actually like São Paulo but I can’t understand why. It’s not like the city even has any culture. It’s just a big, dirty, crime-ridden, congested, smelly business city. [/QUOTE] Hi Steven. I am quite jealous. Our 4 year old daughter has asthma (given to her by this um, lovely, city) and the past 2 weeks here have been horrible as I listen to her cough up her lungs every few minutes. Its like she smokes 2 packs a day. I can’t wait to get out of this place. [/QUOTE] There is a city a few hours ride from Sao Paulo called Aguas de Sao Pedro. The air is very clean there and it is a nice little town with many tourists. People with respiratory issues often go there. Perhaps you can investigate renting a small place for you and your daughter to spend a few days per week while your husband toils in the city. I know that this option isn`t cheap and not optimal but it is something to investigate.

  • #152501

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE] There is a city a few hours ride from Sao Paulo called Aguas de Sao Pedro. The air is very clean there and it is a nice little town with many tourists. People with respiratory issues often go there. Perhaps you can investigate renting a small place for you and your daughter to spend a few days per week while your husband toils in the city. I know that this option isn`t cheap and not optimal but it is something to investigate. [/QUOTE] Thanks. This information is really helpful. We’ve been trying to get out of the city on weekends or when we can, but, as you mention, it is expensive. Something we just have to try and suck up until the weather improves I guess. I will definitely check this place out!

  • #152629

    trebroN
    Member

    Digiwench –
    Thanks for taking the time to write that excellent post. It’s this kind of generous sharing that keeps me coming back to this forum. (I find that the “heated discussions” often quickly turn nasty and boring). But, Nova Scotia, Dallas and Rio – when are you going to get a little more variety into your life?!

  • #155096

    Anonymous

    LOL…yeah, well trust me, it isn’t how I had hoped
    I am intrigued by the cost of living discussions, however. I’m here in Canada now, and while some things are more expensive than the USA, it certainly seems as if cost of living is less than the big cities of Brazil these days
    What an amazing turn of events this is…who knows, perhaps the cycle will turn and people seeking inexpensive waterfront and luxury living will take advantage of the depression and low interest rates in Florida and the Gulf States of the USA, instead of Brazil.
    For myself, although I am no fan of winter, I must wait another year before I can think of visiting Brazil. Please enjoy it for me

  • #168834

    ILfloretta
    Member

    Had you driven 3hrs south you would have be in heaven, Austin and central texas in general are great places to live. Dallas is only good for shopping and it is expensive at that. Sounds like nova scotia is a great place to spend a summer.
    All that said brasil is way too expensive now. My wife is a carioca who just could not stand living in the us (we lived in nola) anymore. For her sanity and mine i moved her and my 14 month old daughter back to rio. She wanted to live near barra in a vacant apt owned by her family. That lasted a month, she hated the traffic etc. She has just moved to cabo frio. Where i have had to buy all new household goods beds frig stove etc….and rent a apt on the beach. The plus side is she is next door to her brother who is a captain in the fire dept and his wife who is pregnant and also a captain in the fire dept. The down side is i paid twice as much for items that are not as good as the one we already have in the us.
    Needless to say i cant leave nola ( the only us city that doesn’t seem like a us city) because that is where my business is. In my opinion the reais to dollar ratio should be around 2 to 1. 1.6 to 1 puts a strain on my relationship. I thought of one time retiring to brasil but until i can adopt a budhist monks mentality i just cant afford it.
    ps The music is great in austin and new orleans

  • #169216

    Anonymous

    The original post is dead on, I am very critical of Brasil and my own people, and what do I hear! “you spent to many years in the US, why did you came back”, well the answer is not easy.
    It comes back to what I wrote on another post, the book is called “The Third Culture”, the never ending comparison between this and that country, culture etc etc.
    I came back to be close to my friends and family and to get way from a culture that I did no longer like it or supported, but is like the saying you leave the skillet and land on the frying pan.After a few years back home you asked yourself, WTF is wrong with this people with the country!!!!
    What pist me off the most about brazilians is their passiveness dealing with all the crap that goes on around and nobody does a thing, from the lines on the post office, to the corruption scandals in Brasilia, to the injustice and impunity of the rich and powerful and on and on.
    But when is time for World Cup, Pan American Games, Olympics Games, Carnival, Formula One Races, the brazilians form this unity not seen in other areas, in relevant areas, areas where they should care and really come together to fight for their rights.
    Like the old saying each people have the kind of government that they deserve.

  • #169223

    Anonymous

    Correction “what pissed me off” not pist me off. lol

  • #172789

    JohnW58
    Member

    [QUOTE=pulkkmi] Having lived in the country for some time now, I find it really surprising that whoever critices razil i n this forum for whatsoever reason will get a huge number of very defensive aswers. Typically, if person X is criticisig living on Braxil, persons A, B, C, D etc. will say “why did you come here, go home”, no matter what the reson of critisism is. I am originally from a Norther European county. I have good job and private life back home and came to Brazil out of curiosity to see how life would be here. My observations so far: 1. Very inefficient publiuc and private sector; 2. For locals, long hours, low pay (expats are different); 3. high risk country (robbings etc); 4. unbelievably steep class differences; 5. lacking infrastructure; 6. High prices for low quality products. On the psitive side, most of the locals are very happy and positive personalities. Family relationships are being held in great values. However, those who know how much better things could be havin lived abroad, are a lttle more realistic. Aside from happy personalities and beatiful nature, there is nothing good in this country. Corruption, powerty, pollution, crime, violence. Before you criticise me, note that I have lived in 7 different countries in Europe, Asia and America and visited more than 50 countries. I’ve been around. What strikes me the most is that if you want to have a standard of life near to western, you pay here 3-5 times more than in the west. And I am not taling about maids.. If my company would not be paying big bucks for working here, we would be on the first flight back home. Things are just so bad here. [/QUOTE] I agree on most of what you say…..but these faults are also what I like about this country….. Anyway…I only came to brasil, because I had to…it was this or notthing, but I do not regret it.

  • #174437

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    Having recently returned to Brazil following a trip to Europe I find that all of the previously ignored depressing sights have been refreshed in my consciousness. Good grief, where is the sense of civic pride in Brazil? Dirty potholed streets and pavements, street signage reminiscent of a pizza topping together with chaotic drivers and all the rest of the nonsense so often criticised on these pages.

    I’m having to give myself a serious pep-talk reminding why the hell I bother to live here!

  • #174451

    aagrin
    Member

    [QUOTE=Esprit]

    Having recently returned to Brazil following a trip to Europe I find that all of the previously ignored depressing sights have been refreshed in my consciousness. Good grief, where is the sense of¬†civic pride in Brazil? Dirty potholed streets and pavements, street signage reminiscent of a pizza topping together with chaotic drivers and all the rest of the nonsense so often <SPAN =squiggly title=”To see spelling suggestions, click this word” word=”criticised” state=”new” splc=”splc”>criticised</SPAN> on these pages.

    I’m having to give myself a serious pep-talk reminding why the hell I bother to live here!

    [/QUOTE]
    Where in Brazil do you choose to reside Esprit? Here in Zona Sul Rio its pretty much like living in Europe now – maybe Naples in Italy would be a good comparison to the standard of living here.
    tomjo2011-06-06 15:27:39

  • #174465

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=tomjo]

    Where in Brazil do you choose to reside Esprit? Here in Zona Sul Rio its pretty much like living in Europe now – maybe Naples in Italy would be a good comparison to the standard of living here.
    [/QUOTE] I’m living in Bahia, north of Salvador where the climate is ideal for me. All I ask is that they spend some of the taxes and tidy the place up a bit. LOL

  • #174472

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=tomjo] [QUOTE=Esprit]

    Having recently returned to Brazil following a trip to Europe I find that all of the previously ignored depressing sights have been refreshed in my consciousness. Good grief, where is the sense of civic pride in Brazil? Dirty potholed streets and pavements, street signage reminiscent of a pizza topping together with chaotic drivers and all the rest of the nonsense so often <SPAN =squiggly title=”To see spelling suggestions, click this word” word=”criticised” state=”new” splc=”splc”>criticised</SPAN> on these pages.

    I’m having to give myself a serious pep-talk reminding why the hell I bother to live here!

    [/QUOTE]
    Where in Brazil do you choose to reside Esprit? Here in Zona Sul Rio its pretty much like living in Europe now – maybe Naples in Italy would be a good comparison to the standard of living here.
    [/QUOTE]

    I too am begining to have my doubts. I just got some new rich neighbors who are building up their walls so high that they appear to be building a prison. I too see the same crappy streets and wonder if it is time to sell to the next wide eyed European wanting to buy into the tropical weather. I have a three week trip coming up soon and should have a better idea as to what to do. I too am in Bahia on the island of Itaparica, a short boat ride from Salvador.

    GreatBallsoFire2011-06-06 16:38:14

  • #174481

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] [QUOTE=tomjo] [QUOTE=Esprit]

    Having recently returned to Brazil following a trip to Europe I find that all of the previously ignored depressing sights have been refreshed in my consciousness. Good grief, where is the sense of civic pride in Brazil? Dirty potholed streets and pavements, street signage reminiscent of a pizza topping together with chaotic drivers and all the rest of the nonsense so often <SPAN =squiggly title=”To see spelling suggestions, click this word” word=”criticised” state=”new” splc=”splc”>criticised</SPAN> on these pages.

    I’m having to give myself a serious pep-talk reminding why the hell I bother to live here!

    [/QUOTE]

    Where in Brazil do you choose to reside Esprit? Here in Zona Sul Rio its pretty much like living in Europe now – maybe Naples in Italy would be a good comparison to the standard of living here.
    [/QUOTE] I too am begining to have my doubts. I just got some new rich neighbors who are building up their walls so high that they appear to be building a prison. I too see the same crappy streets and wonder if it is time to sell to the next wide eyed European wanting to buy into the tropical weather. I have a three week trip coming up soon and should have a better idea as to what to do. I too am in Bahia on the island of Itaparica, a short boat ride from Salvador. [/QUOTE]

    The potential problem with arriving in Europe in three weeks times is the weather; it might be good and therefore colour your impression such that you might say, Bollocks, I’m going to leave Brazil Beware the green grass.’

    Esprit2011-06-06 16:57:13

  • #174483

    aagrin
    Member

    [QUOTE=Esprit] [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] [QUOTE=tomjo] [QUOTE=Esprit]

    Having recently returned to Brazil following a trip to Europe I find that all of the previously ignored depressing sights have been refreshed in my consciousness. Good grief, where is the sense of¬†civic pride in Brazil? Dirty potholed streets and pavements, street signage reminiscent of a pizza topping together with chaotic drivers and all the rest of the nonsense so often <SPAN =squiggly title=”To see spelling suggestions, click this word” word=”criticised” state=”new” splc=”splc”>criticised</SPAN> on these pages.

    I’m having to give myself a serious pep-talk reminding why the hell I bother to live here!

    [/QUOTE]

    Where in Brazil do you choose to reside Esprit? Here in Zona Sul Rio its pretty much like living in Europe now – maybe Naples in Italy would be a good comparison to the standard of living here. [/QUOTE]

    I too am begining to have my doubts. I just got some new rich neighbors who are building up their walls so high that they appear to be building a prison. I too see the same crappy streets and wonder if it is time to sell to the next wide eyed European wanting to buy into the tropical weather.  I have a three week trip coming up soon and should have a better idea as to what to do. I too am in Bahia on the island of Itaparica, a short boat ride from Salvador.

    [/QUOTE]

    <P style=”MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt” =Msonormal><SPAN style=”LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Arial’,’sans-serif’; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: ‘Times New Roman’; mso-ansi-: EN-GB” lang=EN-GB>The potential problem with arriving in Europe in three weeks times is the weather; it might be good and therefore colour your impression such that you might say, Bollocks, I‚Äôm going to leave Brazil Beware the green grass.‚Äô</SPAN><SPAN style=”LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Times New Roman’,’serif’; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: ‘Times New Roman’; mso-ansi-: EN-GB” lang=EN-GB><?:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>[/QUOTE]
    Indeed that “green grass” is a fatal accident that temps even the wisest among us.
    May I ask where in Europe you have return from to fill your mind with consideration and possibility?
    As I only read the dreadful press relating to such financial worry’s, which is enough to sober my thoughts of return to such a damp, cold, dark, dreary Island known as England.

  • #174489

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=tomjo]
    Indeed that “green grass” is a fatal accident that temps even the wisest among us.
    May I ask where in Europe you have return from to fill your mind with consideration and possibility?
    As I only read the dreadful press relating to such financial worry’s, which is enough to sober my thoughts of return to such a damp, cold, dark, dreary Island known as England.[/QUOTE] I travelled both in Belgium & Germany but spent more time in the UK. Relative to Bahia, everything appeared to be in pristine order and lacked any evidence pointing to any kind of crisis, financial or otherwise. I avoided cities like the plague in preference to places where the indigenous hang out and it was comforting to be with one‚Äôs own people and culture. I enjoyed some good weather but had a sharp reminder about, as you describe it, damp, cold and dreary. Still, that why pubs were invented! Yet beyond that I could be tempted into returning if for no other reason than to be in a place where everything works as it should

  • #175522

    noodle456
    Member

    I agree! Get the hell out of Brazil. I was born in São Paulo and grew up there until I was 19. Now I live in New York City. São Paulo is a real dump! I was mugged twice in São Paulo. I had a friend who was kidnapped, killed, and thrown in a river. Why would anyone want to live in Brazil beats me. Don’t run, fly away!

  • #176555

    Anonymous

    Hello! Checking in once more (from Nova Scotia once again, lol, back from a 1 week drive from Dallas)
    What a cross section. I’m here in this lush green quasi island with only 500,000 people (outside of Halifax), spread out over a large province about the size of Montana.
    As might be expected in Canada, things are orderly, polite and you can mark on your calendar the day you see litter by the side of the road. Public bathrooms are spotless, and houses are well tended
    But if you sense a “but”, of course there is one. You an live in Canada for 10 years (as we have now) and neighbors will never invite you over for a cup of coffee. You could be here for Christmas, and be so depressed that you could alert friends you are going to kill yourself out of loneliness, and yet you will not receive a single invitation over for Christmas. In Canada such holidays are for immediate FAMILY only, no friends, no colleagues.
    When I think of my parent’s vibrant Christmas parties and numerous “festinhas” between Christmas and Carnaval, and how everyone was welcome without question, how they were almost offended if a guest wouldn’t accept an invite to come and stay, the contrast is something I find difficult to accept. It goes against my latin definition of hospitality. I’m not sure I easily accept the trade off of “stability” for isolation and lack of human reaction.
    For example, a few people I’ve met have started a little band, and we go out to play music. However, once we get to our venue, if there is an audience (audiences are getting smaller and smaller as the economy deteriorates), it is beyond frustrating, as they barely clap after a performance which in Texas or South Carolina had people stomping. I’m told by other local performers that this kind of lukewarm to non-existant reaction is to be expected.
    The term my grandmother used to use is “friorento”…or “chilly”, as in “aqueles paises são bonito, mas o pessoal la são “friorento”.
    I cannot speak for the whole country, but I think in this region of Canada it is safe to say people are polite, but not hospitable, orderly but not passionate. There is nothing which surprises you, and the laws and taxes have now reached the point where they have choked most of what was left of local night life and much of the disposable economy.
    We went out to play in what was one of the most active bars in the region 10 years ago, and on Saturday night there were 2 people in the bar the entire evening. The story is the same in many restaurants, motels, hotels and bars around this area.
    All around the world right now debt payments, high energy and food costs are choking the average person’s buying ability. The difference is how do they live their lives despite these growing hurdles.
    Yes, Brazil has crime, it can be dirty, inefficient and corrupt. However, there is the “calor humano” and there is the the joy that Brazilians can take in simple things…especially in music, despite all the economic issues. The way they handle the hurdles is a little more enjoyable providing one can accept the well known issues.
    I say this as someone living in an orderly and clean location, enjoying the few days of 70 degree, relatively warm weather in this otherwise damp and chilly location. I find myself thinking often of Rio and the little cities in the north, and the spontaneous sense of happiness which would surge out of nowhere. I am thankful for what I have, and yet my spirit longs for something more, something I remember existed in Brazil
    Yes, it’s greener elsewhere. It may also be totally empty on a Saturday night because of new taxes on alcohol and new regulations which allow police to confiscate someone’s driver’s license for nearly 2 years if they have even a single beer in their system. It may be clean and neat, and you may never get to see the clean and neat interior of your neighbor’s home. It may have socialized medicine..and yet you may wait 8 hrs with a 105 degree fever and bursting ear drum in the emergency room in an attempt to see the only remaining doctor in a 10 town region, because there is no one else available even for pay.
    Define “grass” define “greener”, lol. Personally, I’m often reminded of my father’s old joke about “Brazilian Hell”….
    digiwench2011-07-05 21:39:43

  • #176562

    trebroN
    Member

    Thanks for that post, Digiwench. It’s a good reminder that we all see Brazil through very different lenses. Many of the comments that I see on this thread reveal as much about the commenter as they do about the country.
    peter caplan2011-07-05 23:24:46

  • #176565

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=peter caplan]
    Thanks for that post, Digiwench. It’s a good reminder that we all see Brazil through very different lenses. Many of the comments that I see on this thread reveal as much about the commenter as they do about the country.
    [/QUOTE]

    An insightful remark. The one-eyed man in the land of the blind is King.

  • #176573

    Anonymous

    Stupid frecking country.
    “Its only bloody freezing 3 months per year, why would we insulate our houses?”
    Idiots.

  • #176587

    noodle456
    Member

    [QUOTE=digiwench]Hello! Checking in once more (from Nova Scotia once again, lol, back from a 1 week drive from Dallas)

    What a cross section. I’m here in this lush green quasi island with only 500,000 people (outside of Halifax), spread out over a large province about the size of Montana.

    As might be expected in Canada, things are orderly, polite and you can mark on your calendar the day you see litter by the side of the road. Public bathrooms are spotless, and houses are well tended

    But if you sense a “but”, of course there is one. You an live in Canada for 10 years (as we have now) and neighbors will never invite you over for a cup of coffee. You could be here for Christmas, and be so depressed that you could alert friends you are going to kill yourself out of loneliness, and yet you will not receive a single invitation over for Christmas. In Canada such holidays are for immediate FAMILY only, no friends, no colleagues.

    When I think of my parent’s vibrant Christmas parties and numerous “festinhas” between Christmas and Carnaval, and how everyone was welcome without question, how they were almost offended if a guest wouldn’t accept an invite to come and stay, the contrast is something I find difficult to accept. It goes against my latin definition of hospitality. I’m not sure I easily accept the trade off of “stability” for isolation and lack of human reaction.

    For example, a few people I’ve met have started a little band, and we go out to play music. However, once we get to our venue, if there is an audience (audiences are getting smaller and smaller as the economy deteriorates), it is beyond frustrating, as they barely clap after a performance which in Texas or South Carolina had people stomping. I’m told by other local performers that this kind of lukewarm to non-existant reaction is to be expected.

    The term my grandmother used to use is “friorento”…or “chilly”, as in “aqueles paises são bonito, mas o pessoal la são “friorento”.

    I cannot speak for the whole country, but I think in this region of Canada it is safe to say people are polite, but not hospitable, orderly but not passionate. There is nothing which surprises you, and the laws and taxes have now reached the point where they have choked most of what was left of local night life and much of the disposable economy.

    We went out to play in what was one of the most active bars in the region 10 years ago, and on Saturday night there were 2 people in the bar the entire evening. The story is the same in many restaurants, motels, hotels and bars around this area.

    All around the world right now debt payments, high energy and food costs are choking the average person’s buying ability. The difference is how do they live their lives despite these growing hurdles.

    Yes, Brazil has crime, it can be dirty, inefficient and corrupt. However, there is the “calor humano” and there is the the joy that Brazilians can take in simple things…especially in music, despite all the economic issues. The way they handle the hurdles is a little more enjoyable providing one can accept the well known issues.

    I say this as someone living in an orderly and clean location, enjoying the few days of 70 degree, relatively warm weather in this otherwise damp and chilly location. I find myself thinking often of Rio and the little cities in the north, and the spontaneous sense of happiness which would surge out of nowhere. I am thankful for what I have, and yet my spirit longs for something more, something I remember existed in Brazil

    Yes, it’s greener elsewhere. It may also be totally empty on a Saturday night because of new taxes on alcohol and new regulations which allow police to confiscate someone’s driver’s license for nearly 2 years if they have even a single beer in their system. It may be clean and neat, and you may never get to see the clean and neat interior of your neighbor’s home. It may have socialized medicine..and yet you may wait 8 hrs with a 105 degree fever and bursting ear drum in the emergency room in an attempt to see the only remaining doctor in a 10 town region, because there is no one else available even for pay.

    Define “grass” define “greener”, lol. Personally, I’m often reminded of my father’s old joke about “Brazilian Hell”….
    [/QUOTE] I agree with you, Brazilians can be the most hospitable and lovely people on earth. Those who are of the lower class rungs and were somehow able to spend some time in North America or Europe, for whatever little time, are the ones who can be the most depressed. I have met one such person. My friend knew how much he was losing by being in Brazil and how bad he and his family had it. Ignorance is bliss and it holds very true in Brazil. Also you paint a very bad picture of Canada. I have been to Toronto numerous times and felt the people to be lovely and very welcoming. I stayed with friends and they opened their hearts and homes to us. I went downtown to bars and they were packed. I have heard a lot of great stories about the socilized medicine in Canada. How many hours do people wait in emergency room in Brazil? Who pays more taxes, Canadians or Brazilians? Do you want to be hit by a drunk driver? Why should it be okay to drive with alcohol in your system? Why is drunk driving laws bad? All you speak of is cleansliness. Yes Canada is very clean, but there is much more difference than cleansliness only. I am Jewish and in Brazil felt some descrimination. The same happy go lucky Brazilians once told me I wouldn’t give them a discount because I was Jewish. In Toronto and New York I found people of all races living together. I did not find the same remarks for being Jewish while living here.

  • #176590

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=DanielNYC][ …I am Jewish and in Brazil felt some descrimination. The same happy go lucky Brazilians once told me I wouldn’t give them a discount because I was Jewish. In Toronto and New York I found people of all races living together. I did not find the same remarks for being Jewish while living here. [/QUOTE]

    Speaking as an ordained minister of the Reformed Enlightened Pentecostal Church of Jedi, I make it a point not to tell anyone about my religious affiliations as it often provokes ridicule when they learn about the controversial reforms made during the 2013 synod. To this end I would ask you, a member of one of the most persecuted religions and one where positive discrimination abounds, why, in a quasi Christian Macumba country like Brazil, you find it necessary to put a target on your back by mentioning that you are a Jew to a bunch of goys? Yutzi!

  • #176591

    noodle456
    Member

    [QUOTE=Esprit]Speaking as an ordained minister of the Reformed Enlightened Pentecostal Church of Jedi, I make it a point not to tell anyone about my religious affiliations as it often provokes ridicule when they learn about the controversial reforms made during the 2013 synod. To this end I would ask you, a member of one of the most persecuted religions and one where positive discrimination abounds, why, in a quasi Christian Macumba country like Brazil, you find it necessary to put a target on your back by mentioning that you are a Jew to a bunch of goys? Yutzi! [/QUOTE] Unlike France, you are still allowed to wear a Kipa(yalmuka) in public in Brazil. I did not have to state my religion it was on my head.

  • #176593

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=DanielNYC][QUOTE=Esprit]Speaking as an ordained minister of the Reformed Enlightened Pentecostal Church of Jedi, I make it a point not to tell anyone about my religious affiliations as it often provokes ridicule when they learn about the controversial reforms made during the 2013 synod. To this end I would ask you, a member of one of the most persecuted religions and one where positive discrimination abounds, why, in a quasi Christian Macumba country like Brazil, you find it necessary to put a target on your back by mentioning that you are a Jew to a bunch of goys? Yutzi! [/QUOTE] Unlike France, you are still allowed to wear a Kipa(yalmuka) in public in Brazil. I did not have to state my religion it was on my head. [/QUOTE]

    Hello! There’s your problem – it’s on your head! Please try to remember that these primitive pseudo Christians know that Jesus, their saviour, was crucified because of the Jews; a strange paradox because in dying, Jesus apparently saved them. Frankly, I would fear a brick more than the fear of Heaven falling upon you. Restrict the use of the Kipa when the privacy of Shabbat and enjoy discounts in the shops.

  • #176682

    mastercoop
    Member

    [QUOTE=digiwench]Hello! Checking in once more (from Nova Scotia once again, lol, back from a 1 week drive from Dallas)

    What a cross section. I’m here in this lush green quasi island with only 500,000 people (outside of Halifax), spread out over a large province about the size of Montana.

    As might be expected in Canada, things are orderly, polite and you can mark on your calendar the day you see litter by the side of the road. Public bathrooms are spotless, and houses are well tended

    But if you sense a “but”, of course there is one. You an live in Canada for 10 years (as we have now) and neighbors will never invite you over for a cup of coffee. You could be here for Christmas, and be so depressed that you could alert friends you are going to kill yourself out of loneliness, and yet you will not receive a single invitation over for Christmas. In Canada such holidays are for immediate FAMILY only, no friends, no colleagues.

    When I think of my parent’s vibrant Christmas parties and numerous “festinhas” between Christmas and Carnaval, and how everyone was welcome without question, how they were almost offended if a guest wouldn’t accept an invite to come and stay, the contrast is something I find difficult to accept. It goes against my latin definition of hospitality. I’m not sure I easily accept the trade off of “stability” for isolation and lack of human reaction.

    For example, a few people I’ve met have started a little band, and we go out to play music. However, once we get to our venue, if there is an audience (audiences are getting smaller and smaller as the economy deteriorates), it is beyond frustrating, as they barely clap after a performance which in Texas or South Carolina had people stomping. I’m told by other local performers that this kind of lukewarm to non-existant reaction is to be expected.

    The term my grandmother used to use is “friorento”…or “chilly”, as in “aqueles paises são bonito, mas o pessoal la são “friorento”.

    I cannot speak for the whole country, but I think in this region of Canada it is safe to say people are polite, but not hospitable, orderly but not passionate. There is nothing which surprises you, and the laws and taxes have now reached the point where they have choked most of what was left of local night life and much of the disposable economy.

    We went out to play in what was one of the most active bars in the region 10 years ago, and on Saturday night there were 2 people in the bar the entire evening. The story is the same in many restaurants, motels, hotels and bars around this area.

    All around the world right now debt payments, high energy and food costs are choking the average person’s buying ability. The difference is how do they live their lives despite these growing hurdles.

    Yes, Brazil has crime, it can be dirty, inefficient and corrupt. However, there is the “calor humano” and there is the the joy that Brazilians can take in simple things…especially in music, despite all the economic issues. The way they handle the hurdles is a little more enjoyable providing one can accept the well known issues.

    I say this as someone living in an orderly and clean location, enjoying the few days of 70 degree, relatively warm weather in this otherwise damp and chilly location. I find myself thinking often of Rio and the little cities in the north, and the spontaneous sense of happiness which would surge out of nowhere. I am thankful for what I have, and yet my spirit longs for something more, something I remember existed in Brazil

    Yes, it’s greener elsewhere. It may also be totally empty on a Saturday night because of new taxes on alcohol and new regulations which allow police to confiscate someone’s driver’s license for nearly 2 years if they have even a single beer in their system. It may be clean and neat, and you may never get to see the clean and neat interior of your neighbor’s home. It may have socialized medicine..and yet you may wait 8 hrs with a 105 degree fever and bursting ear drum in the emergency room in an attempt to see the only remaining doctor in a 10 town region, because there is no one else available even for pay.

    Define “grass” define “greener”, lol. Personally, I’m often reminded of my father’s old joke about “Brazilian Hell”….
    [/QUOTE]

    Is the active bar you speak of The Middle Deck – the Irish pub in Halifax? I was last there in ’95 but it had a great atmosphere there. Nova Scotia is a bit dull though I must admit, and I can see why you’re missing Brazil. Perhaps you’d be better off in Vancouver which has the better climate and more relaxed ambience. Whilst you’re reflecting on Canada’s problems and Brazil’s warmth, it’s easy to forget the crime, the lack of well paid jobs, the traffic, the corruption, the pollution, the high costs, the lack of decent goods etc. The grass is always greener. Until you get there.

  • #176864

    woodka
    Member

    [QUOTE=digiwench]But if you sense a “but”, of course there is one. You an live in Canada for 10 years (as we have now) and neighbors will never invite you over for a cup of coffee. You could be here for Christmas, and be so depressed that you could alert friends you are going to kill yourself out of loneliness, and yet you will not receive a single invitation over for Christmas. In Canada such holidays are for immediate FAMILY only, no friends, no colleagues.
    I cannot speak for the whole country, but I think in this region of Canada it is safe to say people are polite, but not hospitable, orderly but not passionate.
    [/QUOTE]

    It’s unfortunate that this is your personal experience, and it’s soured your view of a great country, but I don’t think you could find many other Canadians on this forum that would agree with your points. I haven’t been east of Montreal, in Canada, but I’ve always had the impression that maritimers are the most hospitable people in Canada. I’ve met, and been friends with many people from Atlantic Canada…………. you want to see passion, go to “the rock”, (Newfoundland). The Newfies I’ve met love life and people. Hug
    I will say, as a generalization, that Canadians do tend to spend time in their “clicks”, and it can be hard to penetrate into a new group – even as someone who is Canadian born. LOL
    When I was in Brazil, (briefly), I did find it very easy to meet people, but I was also the novelty gringo with blue eyes, butchering portugues. Big%20smile
  • #177892

    camila2007
    Member

    I have been reading this particular topic that turned into many. I must say as a new forum member and a Canadian I would take the advice of DELCO.
    He seems level headed, and impartial.
    In one posting, the person complains about having to wash the face with cold water, and how ridiculous a toilette without a lid. Again, the person must not have had any experience traveling outside the US and into more poor countries. Comments of that nature I find it not only offensive to many who have traveled the world, but whom are really aware of what is going on in our planet. Somalia has no water, neither does Iraq at times of the day and night.
    So really, I would think you not only should consider leaving Brazil, but leaving it now as soon as you turn off your computer!LOL
    I go many times to Brazil on an yearly basis. And I find it extremely pompous and incredibly limited that comments such as this are even mentioned in a forum!!! I heard an American woman once in Sao Paulo complain that she did not find Kleenex papers available in public bathrooms in Brazil. Ridiculous!
    As per one comment saying that Brazil is anti-semitic or suggesting it otherwise:
    In 2002 there was an attack in Porto Alegre. Three jews were beaten badly and Brazil instituted the law protecting the jews. It is illegal to be anti Semitic. If you hear anyone utter the word “nigger” or “jew”, my girlfriend tells me is illegal and they get in trouble…she said if you bear witness the offender goes to jail.
    In the USA and Canada, you can utter racial slurs no prob! no law protecting minorities. So I applaud Brazil if that is a fact here. Any lawyer on site?
    As a Canadian and listening to comments on Canadian hospitality, I tend to agree. We are orderly, not hospitable. I agree, specially compared to Brazilians who open the doors of their homes to me all the time, wherever I go.
    Just to give you an idea–my girlfriend owns a house on the beach in the south of S.Catarina. She lets the fishermen use her garage for their work, every time we go, they give us tones of seafood and more.
    chess2011-07-19 21:13:49

  • #177902

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=chess]I have been reading this particular topic that turned into many. I must say as a new forum member and a Canadian I would take the advice of DELCO.
    He seems level headed, and impartial.
    In one posting, the person complains about having to wash the face with cold water, and how ridiculous a toilette without a lid. Again, the person must not have had any experience traveling outside the US and into more poor countries. Comments of that nature I find it not only offensive to many who have traveled the world, but whom are really aware of what is going on in our planet. Somalia has no water, neither does Iraq at times of the day and night.
    So really, I would think you not only should consider leaving Brazil, but leaving it now as soon as you turn off your computer!LOL
    I go many times to Brazil on an yearly basis. And I find it extremely pompous and incredibly limited that comments such as this are even mentioned in a forum!!! I heard an American woman once in Sao Paulo complain that she did not find Kleenex papers available in public bathrooms in Brazil. Ridiculous!
    As per one comment saying that Brazil is anti-semitic or suggesting it otherwise:
    In 2002 there was an attack in Porto Alegre. Three jews were beaten badly and Brazil instituted the law protecting the jews. It is illegal to be anti Semitic. If you hear anyone utter the word “nigger” or “jew”, my girlfriend tells me is illegal and they get in trouble…she said if you bear witness the offender goes to jail.
    In the USA and Canada, you can utter racial slurs no prob! no law protecting minorities. So I applaud Brazil if that is a fact here. Any lawyer on site?
    As a Canadian and listening to comments on Canadian hospitality, I tend to agree. We are orderly, not hospitable. I agree, specially compared to Brazilians who open the doors of their homes to me all the time, wherever I go.
    Just to give you an idea–my girlfriend owns a house on the beach in the south of S.Catarina. She lets the fishermen use her garage for their work, every time we go, they give us tones of seafood and more.
    [/QUOTE]

    Getulio Vargas, Hitler’s friend sent a bunch of Jews to Germany so they could be executed. He is much loved.
  • #177934

    Ron
    Participant

    In some areas Brazilians can be very sensitive, especially with regard to their slave/African heritage. Brazilians from the south are always talking about how lazy the people from Bahia are – but let not a ‘gringo’ utter the same opinion.
    The other day a woman commented that my dog was very lazy. When I replied that it was a Baiana dog the look she gave me could have frozen hell.
    I do not like being called a ‘gringo’ but there is fat chance of getting that word declared ‘offensive or racist’. It is a known scam for a Brazilian to publicly and loudly accuse you of insulting them just in the hope that they can get some money out of you to make the problem go away. I’ve seen it work.
    In Australia the foreman on a construction site will be fined if one of his workers ‘wolf whistles’ a passing female. Sexual harassment!!!!!?
    I was amused at the way South Africans got around the banning of the word ‘kaffir’. Now they call the person ‘JACK’ (Just Another Confused Kaffir).
    It seems that in Brazil there are protocols for ‘gringos’ which do not apply to the natives. WE have to tread carefully.

  • #177945

    scotty447
    Member

    …i think it is more of a basic human nature…. when a citizen criticising something about his own country, it is been taken as constructive criticism….but if the same been done by a foreigner, it is more of a hurting feeling for them….

  • #177950

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]Getulio Vargas, Hitler’s friend sent a bunch of Jews to Germany so they could be executed.¬† He is much loved.[/QUOTE]
    If i’m not mistaken, that was one jew, Olga Benário Prestes, wife of his arch rival Luis Carlos Prestes, in 1936. She died in Ravensbrück.

  • #178996

    katia Ienny
    Member

    I’m assuming you’re in Newfoundland, Canada’s worst province. Nova Scotia has 990,000 people and is Canada’s second worst province. Please do not speak for the rest of Canada from the perspective of the Maritimes. Have you spent a winter in Halifax yet? It’s torture. Why anyone would move from Dallas to Halifax-Dartmouth is completely beyond me.

  • #178997

    katia Ienny
    Member

    I’ve lived in Sao Paulo and Vancouver, Canada. I miss each place when gone too long. But, from a purely practical perspective, Canada is leaps and bounds more comfortable and civilized. Canada has its problems, but they are not the same as problems in Brazil. Everything is relative.

    In Canada, I get annoyed when the neighborhood kids play basketball on the street after 9pm.
    In Brazil, I get annoyed when errant bullets pass through my windows after 9pm.
    I kinda like both problems depending where I’m at any given time.
    It’s all relative folks, really.
  • #178998

    Mel_
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]Getulio Vargas, Hitler’s friend sent a bunch of Jews to Germany so they could be executed.¬† He is much loved.[/QUOTE]
    If i’m not mistaken, that was one jew, Olga Benário Prestes, wife of his arch rival Luis Carlos Prestes, in 1936. She died in Ravensbrück.
    [/QUOTE] Seriously? Where could I find out more about that Sven?

  • #179016

    Paulo
    Participant
  • #179024

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant
  • #179106

    Mel_
    Member

    Thanks

  • #181611

    Kevinferno
    Member

    Hey Larry,
    Not sure where you get off with your criticisms but Newfoundland certainly is one of the nicest places in all of Canada (many would agree) and I have lived in a number of places in Canada and many countries. Leave your completely stupid comments elsewhere as you never know who you may offend.
    Yes I am from Newfoundland but before you accuse me of being a mere ‘fisherman’ perhaps especially considering your age and mine most likely being half yours perhaps I’ll see you sometime from my penthouse in Ipanema or Fortaleza and wave.
    Only a redneck like you would come to Brazil and have the first thought to open up a Tim Horton’s in Brazil eh… Be great to have a Timmies double double and a Boston cream in Sao Paulo while you are surfing for ladies on Yahoo chat???? Why not…. That’s my 2 cents.

  • #181771

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Larry LaRose]I’m assuming you’re in Newfoundland, Canada’s worst province. Nova Scotia has 990,000 people and is Canada’s second worst province. Please do not speak for the rest of Canada from the perspective of the Maritimes. .[/QUOTE]
    Utter nonsense. I’m a Canadian who spent most of his life in Ontario before moving to Brazil. I consider Newfoundland to be one of the country’s best provinces. It’s beautiful, the people are wonderful, and it has undergone a dramatic economic transformation in recent years. I assume you haven’t been there recently–or at all.
    Perhaps you should follow your own advice and not speak for other parts of Canada from your perspective.

  • #181779

    Over many years, on this Forum, a lot of people, mainly Europeans, make snide remarks about the US, and nothing is reviewed, and if I try and correct them, I am bashed. Then a Canadian makes a general negative comment about Canada and all the Canadians go ape sh*t … ? Have a Wonderful Day Everyone. Ray2011-09-14 12:38:53

  • #181780

    Tedichi
    Member

    I am on the notion that Newfoundland is a bit of a difficult place to make a life, just in my opinion. I don`t care to justify it, I just don`t see myself living there. Perhaps it has its appealing side to the people who enjoy that region and its climatic criteria.

    It just goes to show you`re in Ipanema or Fortaleza which ever it is(currently). Just might submit your lack of interest in your home frontier by your relocation, hehe!
    Nothing personal just thought it was a bit of an interesting quarrel you guys are sharing.
    Enjoy!

    Brazillifestyle2011-09-14 12:44:19

  • #181787

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]I am on the notion that Newfoundland is a bit of a difficult place to make a life, [/QUOTE]
    Not really, unless you’re living in a remote outport somewhere. But a remote life anywhere can be difficult. On the other hand, the remote parts of the island are breathtakingly beautiful–fjords, for example. And as far as cities go, St. John’s is a lovely place to live. However, I’m not trying to persuade anybody to live in Newfoundland, just pointing out that in my opinion it is in no way the worst province in Canada.
    As for the “home frontier,” I still spend plenty of time there, thanks. I spend most of my life in Salvador but still have a house in Canada. You might want to refrain from judging people’s “lack of interest” when you know nothing about them.

  • #181841

    woodka
    Member

    [QUOTE=Ray] Over many years, on this Forum, a lot of people, mainly¬†Europeans,¬†make snide remarks about the US, and nothing is reviewed, and if I try and correct them, I am bashed. Then a Canadian¬†makes a general negative comment about Canada and all the Canadians go ape sh*t … ?

     

    Have a Wonderful Day Everyone. 

     

    [/QUOTE]
    It’s a pride thing. The average born-and-raised Canadian thinks he/she’s in the best country in the world, and it drives us absolutely bonkers to see a fellow countryman talk trash about it. On top of that, nobody likes to see a poor ambassador to their home, spreading their own ignorance and hate.
    Do you like when morons from your country travel and spread negative stereotypes? Do you want this to represent you and your country……. I don’t think so.
    Edit: BLS tends not to agree with me, but he’s jaded because the Canadian government is putting his patience to the test. Meanwhile, he lives in a condo in one of the most expensive parts of the most expensive city in Canada…….. how bad can life in Canada really be????
    BTW, BLS…… I’m not bashing your life, but I’m 33 and if I had saved every buck I’ve made in my lifetime, I still couldn’t pay cash for your place, so try to cut your perceived “have-not” countrymen some slack.EuSouCanadense2011-09-15 00:52:05

  • #181874

    Tedichi
    Member

    Hahaha…

    Judge your lack of interest, well I think it does the work itself.
    I’m sorry but the only useful purpose the newfoundland landscape may be in a postcard if that. From their unemployement rate to just being too remote. That place is probably the worst place in Canada to live and right a long with it you can have Sask, Manitoba, and Toronto…
    Best of Luck!
  • #181875

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]Hahaha…

    Judge your lack of interest, well I think it does the work itself.
    [/QUOTE]
    I wouldn’t even know what to say to that, given that your English no longer makes any sense.
  • #181879

    Tedichi
    Member

    Yes, I’ve just woken up, fair enough!

    I do stand by what I meant to say and that is the province is a “sh*thole”. Now if you don’t understand what that means, feel free to stay in denial.
  • #181881

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]Yes, I’ve just woken up, fair enough!

    I do stand by what I meant to say and that is the province is a “sh*thole”. Now if you don’t understand what that means, feel free to stay in denial.

    [/QUOTE]
    Wow, such unabashed hatred, lol. Have you ever been to Newfoundland? It certainly sounds like you haven’t.

  • #181882

    Tedichi
    Member

    How many people have been there? In total? Not many! You’re talking about a location in comparison to the territories and you know it. Now who lives up there? Only people who have culture and heritage relations and that’s fine. In no way probable or possible does it compete with the rest of Canada as a great place to live. Not a chance!

  • #181886

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]

    How many people have been there? In total? Not many! You’re talking about a location in comparison to the territories and you know it. Now who lives up there? Only people who have culture and heritage relations and that’s fine. In no way probable or possible does it compete with the rest of Canada as a great place to live. Not a chance!

    [/QUOTE]
    You clearly have never been to Newfoundland. You know nothing about it. You know nothing about who lives there or who would want to live there. And you are clearly in no position to have an opinion on what kind of place Newfoundland is to live. How can you possible have an opinion of someplace you’ve never visited?
    You’re like someone who advocates banning a book without reading it first. Or even worse, you’re like all the Brasil bashers in forums like these who have an opinion on Brasil without ever having been here. Now, because this is a Brasil forum, let’s get back to discussing Brasil. Presumably you are more qualified to do that.

  • #181887

    Tedichi
    Member

    I don’t care if you live there or love it there, that’s not my point. It in no way contends with or presents any comparison to say Vancouver(if you’ve never been here, that’s fine too because I won’t say it’s better). I am waiting for you to admit that your lovely Newfoundland is among the least favourites of Canada. Now if to you that differs fromyou and other people, okay I can’t change that. Simply put I don’t need to know who, where, why, when, what or how living there is anything. A lotof people do notlive or wantto live there and that’s fine too!
    Now if you’re going to question my qualifications about living in Brazil, please feel free! I’d love to discuss it, because you’re right this is a Brazil forum!

  • #181891

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]

    II am waiting for you to admit that your lovely Newfoundland is among the least favourites of Canada.

    [/QUOTE]
    Never going to happen, my friend. I think Newfoundland is a great place. Almost everyone I know who has ever lived there or visited thinks it’s a great place. As for my Canadian perspective, it comes from the fact that I have visited every province and territory in Canada, and every major city (along with a fair chunk of not-so-major cities). Throw in at least 40 U.S. states and I’d say I have a fair base of comparison, as far as North America is concerned. And yes, that includes Vancouver, a great city with absurdly high real estate prices.
    As for Brasil, I’ve lived here for more than a decade. So you’re welcome to discuss anything you like with me. However, in case you live in JP, I have no opinion on that city because I have never been there :)
    toolio2011-09-15 12:35:43

  • #181911

    Tedichi
    Member

    Okay great and congratulations on being well traveled but it doesn’t account for anything except your personal preferences. Which overall won’t mean anything so sorry about that. Now you’re talking Vancouver having high real-estate prices and that’s right, it was already mentioned I live among it. I’ll be the first one to tell you I hate this city, but that won’t matter either. It’s the majority speaking that accounts to what’s the norm or medium. Now your Newfoundland is among the lower portion in too many classifications, and that’s fact, including low real-estate prices lol.

    Anyhow I must correct you if JP means Joao Passoa, I don’t live in Paraiba. I’ve done the touristic route Sao Luis down the coast. The debate has been present in the past regarding to my personal situation in Brazil, I’d not prefer to get into the comparison game(financial or how long one’s time table contains)…
    I have a great life, that’s all I’ll say if it’s relavent to you.
  • #181913

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]Okay great and congratulations on being well traveled but it doesn’t account for anything except your personal preferences. Which overall won’t mean anything so sorry about that. [/QUOTE]
    It means I have been to the places I talk about. You haven’t. I should also point out that your generalizations are not supported by fact. You have no evidence whatsoever that Newfoundland “is among the lower portion in too many classifications.” To put it bluntly, you’re just shooting off your mouth for the sake of yapping. Get some facts, visit the places you criticize, and then maybe you will have some credibility

  • #181918

    Tedichi
    Member

    I don’t have to go to Newfoundland to know it sucks there. The facts say it all.

    Highest unemployement rate in the country (meaning welfare is on its way). Agriculture is limited and mainly for produced for personal consumption, if not potatoes.
    Density the isolation leaves you with a convenient scale of 0.
    Climate is surpassed by harsh winters(being so north), sure some years pass more mildy, so what.
    Sure you can get a so-called million dollar ocean view for a fraction of the price, but you’re paying for it in other ways. If you’re 65 and retiring you might consider it, but if you’re a student, family person, mild aged career goer, well then itSUCKS. Do you know how man newfies go to the western section of Canada in search of work? LOTS!
    I don’t need credibility for newfoundland it doesn’t deserve it. You’re trying to play it off like I’m just talking sh*t, but in fact NEWFOUNDLAND just isn’t the best place to live, can you leave it at that?
  • #181922

    toolio
    Participant

    Sure, I’ll leave it at that, with one addendum.
    Nobody here said Newfoundland was the best place to live in Canada. They, and I, just said it wasn’t the worst, and was, in fact, a good place to live. You can end your hate-on for Newfoundland now. Not sure where it comes from, though. Did a Newfie do you wrong somewhere, someplace?
    You might also want to read this. Real facts, not ones made up by you.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/daily-mix/newfoundland-races-ahead-in-economic-ranking/article2154910/
    End of my part of the Newfoundland discussion. Can’t really argue with someone who uses false logic to further his nonsensical rants, can I?
    toolio2011-09-15 15:45:27

  • #181924

    Tedichi
    Member

    The article doesn’t say much for your striving passion. How about population density, majority finding it hard to live there.

    Done..
  • #181929

    alan danson
    Member

    sh*t – I used to live in Oldham near Manchester UK – what you guys are talking about sounds like heaven
    Lighten up a bit – have a beer and chill.

  • #182265

    Kevinferno
    Member

    BLS,
    I really don’t understand why you keep jibbering on about such crap? Honestly??? Are you an adult or did your mudder fly you down here and abandon you?
    The housing prices for starters now in St. John’s are some of the most expensive in Canada due to the rapid economic growth especially in the oil and gas sector. The same home there now will cost you more than in Ottawa or Toronto. Lots or BMWs, Mercedes, and Porches on the highways there right now too. Geez louise..
    If it is so tough for lots of people to live there how did I manage at 34 to become educated there and own a real nice house as well as my properties in Brazil from scratch??? My folks weren’t rich and i worked for everything I have. There’s many more stories like mine..
    Perhaps you and Larry should team up and get some decent cash flowing and open your dream Timmie’s down here?? Mayby you can Brazil it and offer some feijoida free with every bagel purchase….. Might get you guys out of the favela.
    Btw, my reason to live in Brazil is due to I can live wherever I want and don’t like the Canadian winter so much. I guess now you will argue your ample Vancouver rain has some sort of regenerative properties or it isn’t cold out that way or something. Hahaha western douchbags.

  • #182291

    Anonymous

    I can confirm Oldham is a s**t-hole.

  • #182292

    alan danson
    Member

    Oldhams not bad on the one day a year it has sunshine though.

  • #182307

    Tedichi
    Member

    Well I thought that we had agreed to abandon this subject, but I’m definitely open for business. The oil and gas is a recent run of luck for your people and that’s fine, it contributes to the Canadian Economy. The property values there rising again is a positive thing. However it doesn’t account for a damn thing that would create an understanding for it being a great place to live.

    buddy, I’m so happy you got your education in newfndland, wow! Best university in Canada. I’m doing my MBA at the leading business school in Canada, just incase it wasn’t better than newfndland. You own a house congratulations, try owning a place worth more than houses, across Canada, in the most expensive and area in Canada. Not to mention quality of life you could never find in that sh*t corner of the country. After that try owning several properties in Brasil you say? Try several in Ipanema, Lagoa in Rio RJ, try Sao Paulo… I’m only 24 and my wife and I are way ahead of you financially. Yes it comes from both our families and you’ll never have it, so go f**k yourself. You can talk sh*t all you want about this and that, but newfoundland still suckass and it always will!

    For the record, Vancouver is a sh*thole too and I can’t wait to get out of here back to Brazil for good.. So I’m not a westcoast elite, sorry to confuse you with the other people who think newfoundland is a garabage wasteland too… Brazillifestyle2011-09-19 11:02:31

  • #182310

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]I’m only 24 and my wife and I are way ahead of you financially. Yes it comes from both our families and you’ll never have it, so go f**k yourself. You can talk sh*t all you want about this and that, but newfoundland still suckass and it always will!
    [/QUOTE]
    And who would have guessed you are only 24 from the respectful, mature attitude you show on these forums. (In case you’re not capable of noticing, that is sarcasm).
    This isn’t a pissing contest and nobody cares how much money you have or where it came from. Nobody cares where you’re getting your MBA. You’re the one who irritated people by calling Newfoundland a sh*thole, yet you seem to be the only one in this thread who thinks so–no matter how much evidence to the contrary other posters present.
    However, I do have a question. If you don’t live in Brazil, why does your profile say you live here? Kind of puts a new perspective on your posts doesn’t it? You’re the one who indicates in posts that the fact that one leaves a country behind somehow indicates they are disappointed in it. Yet you have left Brazil behind and continue to claim you live here.
    Although I’m not really that interested in the answer, I think the dichotomy is worth pointing out.
    I’ve jumped in here again because, frankly, I’m getting tired of your inane, self-centred ramblings and this one has cemented my opinion that practically everything you say should be of no interest to me.
    P.S. The leading business school in Canada is not in Vancouver, so somebody has steered you in the wrong direction, lol.
    toolio2011-09-19 11:15:37

  • #182311

    Tedichi
    Member

    Okay, I agree with you about the pissing contest, it just seems the last half of his post gives off that idea. Anyway, no one on this forum has even been to newfoundland besides you two, who call it home. The personal question about my present location is fine, I was living inmy house in Sao Paulo until recently last year, to return to Canada to finish my grad school. This was a personal choice my wife and I made, with all intensive purpose to return to Brazil, at the end of this year, when I finish. So for you thinking I’ve jumped ship, I’ll be there in 3 and a half months.. Sven and I can have a bottle on nye in copa haha!
    I’ve gone through the multiple house issues before, I’m definitely calling Brazil home, I’ve left to complete a project, that’s all! Maybe visit family too, why not! haha.

    Well at least you know there’s no convincing newfndland is amazing, thus we’ve completed our segment. Let’s let fortaleza guy get his 15 minutes and go from there! take care..

  • #182313

    Tedichi
    Member

    Sauder is ranked academically as a leader, although the states do change yearly and vary from ranking system to ranking system. It could be an endless debate, just like newfndland. One of the most recognized around the world. It certainly will enlighten our friend who is educated at newfndland’s finest education facility! hahahaha

  • #182314

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle] Anyway, no one on this forum has even been to newfoundland besides you two, who call it home. [/QUOTE]
    How could you possibly know who on this forum has been to Newfoundland? I do not “call it home,” and never said any such thing in this thread. I have been to Newfoundland many times, and have spent a considerable amount of time there. I said I like the place–as do most people who visit or live there. You continue to call it a “sh*thole” without ever having set foot there.
    As for “Well at least you know there’s no convincing newfndland is amazing, thus we’ve completed our segment”…once again I have no idea what you’re talking about. You need to improve your literacy skills. And by the way, you mean “all intents and purposes,” not “all intensive purpose.”

  • #182315

    Kevinferno
    Member

    So BLS,
    What you saying is you are still a student living off of mom’s and dad’s coffers and you have an attitude to talk like it yours? You are just a spoiled nothing who they accidently let out of Beijing ooops I mean Vancouver.
    Btw, there are many people with MBA’s who do nothing with it. Considering your obvious lack of interpersonal skills you will more than likely be another statistic. More like a hobby degree after your first one.
    I’m sure I won’t make any money at working as a consultant specialist engineer in the oil and gas industry. It’s not as if it’s the most lucrative industry in the world or in Brazil for that matter. Guess I’ll have to be happy with my hockey player level salary from last year or the one to come this year. Poor me having to do this myself and not get mommy and daddy to pay for my feijoida.
    Best to poke you with a stick some more. Some of do love Canada as well.

  • #182316

    Tedichi
    Member

    The phrase intents and purposes is in the sense of “practical purpose”. It’s a common and accepted malapropism from personal to coroporate use in the English language. Language is always changing, constantly, throughout history! And to clarify the other quote for you. Newfndland is not amazing, you will not convince me, therefore our discussion on it is over.
    I don’t care who has been there, who is going there or who wants to or not. None of that matters at all to me, it’s a terrible place. Sorry if that makes you upset all the time. If want to enjoy a place where people desire to live, in Canada, try Vancouver. This is a real place to live, a place you can actually do stuff. By that I mean ANYTHING!!!!

  • #182317

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]Sauder is ranked academically as a leader, although the states do change yearly and vary from ranking system to ranking system. [/QUOTE]
    Although I am loathe to continue this, I can’t let your blatant twisting of your own posts pass without comment.
    You originally said: “THE LEADING business school in Canada.” You did not say “a leader,” as you did in subsequent posts I am aware of no recent ranking (or for that matter, any ranking) that puts Sauder at the top of the list of Canadian business schools. It is good, but far from the best.
    Had you said “the fifth or sixth best business school in Canada” I wouldn’t argue. Anybody who knows anything about Canadian business schools knows there are three that vie for the top position, and the rest are in another class. Those three do not include Sauder. Even Sauder doesn’t have the nerve to call itself Canada’s leading school, it simply refers to itself as a ” is a leading business school.”
    Because status is so important to you, judging from today’s posts, I just want to make sure you know where your educational institution stands.

  • #182318

    Kevinferno
    Member

    BLS,
    You just stated that Vancouver is a real place to live after stating it was a sh$$hole in a previous post. You’re apparently full of inaccuracies.
    Before you have such strong opinions in the future here is some sound advice know what you are talking about and second don’t for example brag about things that clearly you had no part in obtaining. Nobody has respect for such crap or my dad is better than your dad arguments.

  • #182319

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]It’s a common and accepted malapropism from personal to coroporate use in the English language.[/QUOTE]
    Now you’re bordering on funny. You’ve provided the best laugh I’ve had all day.
    There is no such thing as an “accepted” malapropism. However, feel free to move in the corporate sphere that encompasses those who are ridiculed for their slaughter of the English language.
    http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/intensive.html
    The corporate world plays a large role in the destruction, not the evolution, of the language.
    I am the last person you should be attempting to lecture on the English language. I have no desire, as do some here, to boast. But I know far more about the subject than you do now, or will in the future. It has been my life’s work.
    toolio2011-09-19 12:19:36

  • #182324

    Tedichi
    Member

    If you feel Sauder has a self-proclaimed reputation, I won’t argue with you. I said earilier there are a lot of ranking systems out there to choose from.

    http://www.sauder.ubc.ca/mba/Read the first line.

    Unless you’re qualifying based on intracute qualities such as class sizes, tuition costs, hiring percentages of grads, average salary of grads etc..

    I am wrong on the “intensive purposes” subject, although common, it is politically incorrect.

    Vancouver, when comparing livablity to Newfoundland, most certainly has the higher quality of livable traits, by far! You can keep Newfoundland’s character, the stature is based by individuals such as yourselves, not the majority. Less the physical distinctions are common, ocean, mountains, houses etc, haha! That’s about it.. Brazillifestyle2011-09-19 12:53:23

  • #182326

    Kevinferno
    Member

    BLS,
    You are far too vague as usual what exactly are these higher quality of livable traits??? I unlike you have been to both places in discussion and wasn’t overly impressed. I suppose because there are many underground pot labs in BC you will argue it is better. You fit the age group so not surprising..
    Btw, reputation of your school really has no play in whether you get a great job or not. It depends on YOU and only YOU. Somehow I have doubts in your case. Perplexed as to why.

  • #182329

    Tedichi
    Member

    I have every amenity at my doorstep, 30 restaurants in a sqaure mile radius, world class almost everything. Just hope in the elevator you’ll find a gym, spa, theatre, events area, lounge etc all in my building. Everything you can think of is within walking distance, I only drive to campus, that’s it. A worldclass city not to mention, cultural diversity you may disagree, living in Fortaleza… lol Only and ignorant newfie wouldn’t understand the difference between Van and newfnland!… sorry again..
    Underground growing is common yes, but try the Netherlands, Sven might tell you how sophisticated life quality is there as well. Thanks for trying, best of luck!

    Ummm ya, school can play a dramatic role in your life. The connections can be pricless, no need to prove that. I have a recently graduated friend from LBS, flooded with job offers in Sao Paulo. Just like my family connections in Brazil will contribute to my future. Not always but it is very strong in Brazil to have networks in place to secure anything. Brazillifestyle2011-09-19 13:16:05

  • #182337

    Kevinferno
    Member

    Well considering I have lived in Canada, USA, UK, France, Nigeria, Korea and now Brazil (travelled to many more countries) I probably know a little more about world class amenities than you. What you just described at your doorstep in a square mile is present in all cities you dolt (minus the Nigerian ones).
    Once again you have proven time after time you are incorrect and don’t have a clue. Not sure other members would appreciate you including them in your arguments as well. Don’t see them responding back.
    You can take the pig out of the pen but not the pen out of the pig.
    Jomama

  • #182341

    Tedichi
    Member

    I don’t need anyone’s support on these subjects or opinions, they’re personal. The main disagreement is you two thinking Newfoundland is great! It’s just a personal discussion and no one is going to win. This is a pissing contest after all and I’ll admit it. But at the end of the day I don’t have to go home a newfie, hahahahahahaha.

  • #182347

    hoganti
    Member

    [QUOTE=Fortaleza-Newf]Well considering I have lived in Canada, USA, UK, France, Nigeria, Korea and now Brazil (travelled to many more countries) I probably know a little more about world class amenities than you. What you just described at your doorstep in a square mile is present in all cities you dolt (minus the Nigerian ones).
    Once again you have proven time after time you are incorrect and don’t have a clue. Not sure other members would appreciate you including them in your arguments as well. Don’t see them responding back.
    You can take the pig out of the pen but not the pen out of the pig.
    Jomama[/QUOTE]
    No point in arguing with him. His way works for him and makes him quite happy.
    Money + connections + fancy buildings + crazy nightlife = happiness

  • #182348

    Kevinferno
    Member

    No you have to go home a wanker at 24 because your mama pays your rent!
    hahahahaha! touche
    Fortaleza-Newf2011-09-19 14:00:49

  • #182351

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Brazillifestyle]I don’t need anyone’s support on these subjects or opinions, they’re personal. The main disagreement is you two thinking Newfoundland is great! [/QUOTE]
    As I have pointed out before, you have never been to Newfoundland. You have no basis for an opinion. We know Newfoundland, and base our opinions on what we have experienced. I would respect your negative opinion of Newfoundland–although I wouldn’t agree with it–if you had actually visited or spent some time there. I would also respect it more if you had some facts to back up your premises and paid some attention to the statistics we have offered that prove your assertions are incorrect.
    You have declared Newfoundland to be a sh*thole, without ever seeing it. That is not a judgment you are qualified to make.
    You are an MBA student. Would you declare a company’s balance sheet in terrible condition without having examined it first? Could you confidently say that its assets outweigh its liabilities without having first examined a statement of assets and liabilities? Would you assess a company’s fundamental value without having first considered its sales, cash flow, book value and other measures? Of course not.

  • #182355

    Tedichi
    Member

    Okay I’ll give you credit where it is due in regards to your opinion and “EXPERIENCES”. You’ve been there, you’ve seen it! I admit it! You two find it a good place to be, fine! I have not been there, yes, it’s true. It will not however change my opinion about it, and I’ll never go there. So this battle or discussion can go on forever, unfortunately I am sure none of us have the time for it.

    Yes, you are right Newfoundland is having a change of events and good fortune lately!(oil discoveries). I am proud of that fact, it contributes to Canada’s overall success! There are many issues I wouldn’t proceed upon the way I’ve handled this debate/situation. Very true!

    My point of view is mine and I am sorry our difference of opinion is the way it is today. I’m going to reduce the importance of mine on this subject from this point forward. Our prospectives are not in sync and that is fine too, neither are our experiences in life, that goes for all three of us.

    To each their own, please forgive me..

    Thanks

  • #182361

    Kevinferno
    Member

    Ok,
    Finally some sanity. The lesson here is not to judge based on what you may have been told or read, see and experience it before you form such strong negative opinions. Even if your opinion is so strong why express it so openly in a public forum based on nothing? You leave yourself open to alot of backlash for nothing.

  • #182987

    jaenicoll
    Member

    An arguement about Newfoundland……Really?

  • #182988

    Paulo
    Participant

    Hey, some of the best jokes are Newfie jokes.
    Um Newfie entrou num bar e ….

  • #195432

    Max
    Member

    I have lived here in Brasil now for close to three years, and I live in Piaui, the second poorest state of Brazil, (so I am told), far from the south. I have spent a lot of time in the second largest city of this state, which is very typically north eastern – and there are nearly no gringoes here.
    It has been very difficult at times. No-one asnswers the same question the same way, if they actually answer at all. You can go out to achieve five things, return home five hours later, and have achieved none. Anyone who has spent any time here as more than a tourist, knows that this is life in Brasil.
    I see so many brain dead locals, who have come to know nothing better, and who seem to tune out, just switch off, just to cope with the boredom and the lack of care about anything. So when contributors to this forum say to relax, I am not so sure about that. It will certainly keep your stress levels down, but all I see around me where I am, are poor souls who have given up, expecting so little, demanding no better, accepting the sh*te that anyone and everyone serves up to them.
    That attitude is keeping many Brazilians and these poor people downtrodden. I say speak up, show the way. You wont win, but simply joining the ranks of those who just say it is the way it is, well I dont know about that.
    I am not saying go around screaming and shouting everyday, but I can`t believe that when I look at these peoples expressionless faces, riding bikes around on very busy chaotic and dangerous roads in a trance, as if they are riding on the moon, that taking the option to accept all, as they all have, is the right attitude to take.
    I know I will never change anything, but it really saddens me to see that what we gringoes find simply annoying, actually leaves many local and poor people who know nothing more, in a semi zombie like existance. This is what happens to them when they live their entire lives expecting no better.
    I guess my point is that we are in some way complicit in that, when we simply choose to live that way too, taking all the good from Brazil, and opting for the path of least resistance.
    If we expect more, we should show them to expect more and demand better for themselves as well. So I am not going to say chill out, take it easy, this is Brazil. I say show locals, especially poor locals, that they can and should expect better, that they deserve better, and that they need to find their voice and stand up if they want to be treated better.

  • #195444

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=Richard V]I have lived here in Brasil now for close to three years, and I live in Piaui, the second poorest state of Brazil, (so I am told), far from the south. I have spent a lot of time in the second largest city of this state, which is very typically north eastern – and there are nearly no gringoes here.

    It has been very difficult at times. No-one asnswers the same question the same way, if they actually answer at all. You can go out to achieve five things, return home five hours later, and have achieved none. Anyone who has spent any time here as more than a tourist, knows that this is life in Brasil.

    I see so many brain dead locals, who have come to know nothing better, and who seem to tune out, just switch off, just to cope with the boredom and the lack of care about anything. So when contributors to this forum say to relax, I am not so sure about that. It will certainly keep your stress levels down, but all I see around me where I am, are poor souls who have given up, expecting so little, demanding no better, accepting the sh*te that anyone and everyone serves up to them.

    That attitude is keeping many Brazilians and these poor people downtrodden. I say speak up, show the way. You wont win, but simply joining the ranks of those who just say it is the way it is, well I dont know about that.

    I am not saying go around screaming and shouting everyday, but I can`t believe that when I look at these peoples expressionless faces, riding bikes around on very busy chaotic and dangerous roads in a trance, as if they are riding on the moon, that taking the option to accept all, as they all have, is the right attitude to take.

    I know I will never change anything, but it really saddens me to see that what we gringoes find simply annoying, actually leaves many local and poor people who know nothing more, in a semi zombie like existance. This is what happens to them when they live their entire lives expecting no better.

    I guess my point is that we are in some way complicit in that, when we simply choose to live that way too, taking all the good from Brazil, and opting for the path of least resistance.

    If we expect more, we should show them to expect more and demand better for themselves as well. So I am not going to say chill out, take it easy, this is Brazil. I say show locals, especially poor locals, that they can and should expect better, that they deserve better, and that they need to find their voice and stand up if they want to be treated better.

    [/QUOTE]

    Let’s be frank, why do ex-pats live in Brazil. No question mark indicated because, for many, it will be obvious that the question is rhetorical. We live in Brazil because it is the way it is. Meanwhile we just like bitchin about its shortcomings.

    The Portuguese/ African/ mongrel heritage is unlikely to be shrugged off during the next fifty to one-hundred years, if at all. First world missionaries may repair micro pockets of Brazilian society and get a bed in heaven for their trouble, but I wouldn’t get my knickers in a twist worrying about Brazil.

    And while we’re being frank, why not mention that there could be upwards to a hundred million Brazilians that are surplus to requirements in terms of GDP who otherwise do nothing to advance the cause other than enjoying the gift of life; albeit that they aspire to less and are largely ignorant of the possibility of a life that we would otherwise wish for them. I, too, weep for Brazil.

  • #195447

    Gianni
    Member

    hahaha awesome!

  • #195460

    Max
    Member

    I am not a missionary. I am just someone who thinks that there is more to being here in Brasil, than being here. My circumstances chose Piaui. I did not. But I know what I see, and when I see gringoes who get pissed that nothing much works so great, and the pat answer is to accept it and it will all be ok, I don`t know about that. It just sounds lazy to me and when everyone gets so lazy as to have their brains turn to blank screen from lack of giving a damn about anything, I see the results everyday and its not a jolly picture of poor but happy Brasilians. Far from it.
    Like I said, nothing will be changed, but I just want to add a view other than hey dude, relax, this is Brazil. I find that response lacking I guess.

  • #195468

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Richard V]I am not a missionary. I am just someone who thinks that there is more to being here in Brasil, than being here. My circumstances chose Piaui. I did not. But I know what I see, and when I see gringoes who get pissed that nothing much works so great, and the pat answer is to accept it and it will all be ok, I don`t know about that. It just sounds lazy to me and when everyone gets so lazy as to have their brains turn to blank screen from lack of giving a damn about anything, I see the results everyday and its not a jolly picture of poor but happy Brasilians. Far from it.
    Like I said, nothing will be changed, but I just want to add a view other than hey dude, relax, this is Brazil. I find that response lacking I guess.
    [/QUOTE]
    I agree, and applaud you for your posts. Clap

  • #195470

    Gianni
    Member

    Brazilians themselves say that it’s brazil and there is nothing you can do and that’s just how it goes. There’s always going to be a strain of retardation among gringos who strive to encourage those around them to raise their standards. Hence the word GRINGO…
    So… Dude, relax, this is brazil… haha

  • #195473

    Max
    Member

    Normal0falsefalsefalseEN-GBX-NONEX-NONE

    I don`t think I have said that. I have not said anythingabout poor Brasilians needing to raise their standards. What I have said isthat when they have no expectations, and when they accept everything is as theway it is, it does not mean they are happy and carefree, far from it.

    I don`t think tossing out a glib cliché piece of advice isthe best we can do. I am not sure we can do anything, but this whole process ofhave a moan and a laugh at the locals expense, before offering up the hey dude,relax this is Brazil line as the end piece, just bugs me.

    It sounds awfully superior in both tone and content, and soI am not encouraging that as being the gringo mantra for living here.

  • #195474

    Gianni
    Member

    You seem to throw a two-sided opinion about the whole thing, it’s frustrating to watch brazilians drown in their own carefree world, but it does function; primitivity in nature is the basis of the frustration. So of course I get pissed off when dealing with day to day situations, we all on the occasion and that’s fine. However, to say that it deserves any type of thought researching to find a solution is far from worth anyone’s time. It is the way it is and we as foreigners need to accept it, if they so wish or desire to change, they will do it when they’re ready!
    This place has wonderful weather, vibrant culture etc, and we should enjoy it for what it is and not what we expect it should or shouldn’t be. It’s awfully ignorant to apply your standards (not you specifically) to a country you are a guest in (whether they be for the better or not). That’s superior in content or tone, you can have the pick…Gringodude2012-01-21 16:57:03

  • #195475

    micko
    Member

    [QUOTE=Richard V]If we expect more, we should show them to expect more and demand better for themselves as well. So I am not going to say chill out, take it easy, this is Brazil. I say show locals, especially poor locals, that they can and should expect better, that they deserve better, and that they need to find their voice and stand up if they want to be treated better.[/QUOTE]
    In my experience there are some difficulties with putting this into practice. Many Brazilians are ready for your message and in fact have already received it and support it, but if you as a gringo deliver criticisms of Brazil, even if they are only in the form of trying to demonstrate solutions to things that are universally considered problems, you will be immediately condemmed. I let my wife try to do this kind of preaching, while I, the coward, tell all how happy I am to be swinging in the hammock, under the mango tree, drinking agua de coco, – “O Brasil has freed my inner vagabundo…”
    But also, be careful that you are successful. I can remember when I first joined this forum and a common beef was the lack of selection, quality and cost of consumer goods – old story. Everyone said more imports would bring more competition and lower prices and raise quality. But look. Now the stores are full of Chinese crap which is just as expensive as the Brazilian crap ever was, but is even crappier. Naw, I’ll stay out of it. At least until I am a citizen.
    Smarter people have come before us … Abide by the Prime Directive, General Order #1.

  • #195476

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=Richard V]I am not a missionary. I am just someone who thinks that there is more to being here in Brasil, than being here. My circumstances chose Piaui. I did not. But I know what I see, and when I see gringoes who get pissed that nothing much works so great, and the pat answer is to accept it and it will all be ok, I don`t know about that. It just sounds lazy to me and when everyone gets so lazy as to have their brains turn to blank screen from lack of giving a damn about anything, I see the results everyday and its not a jolly picture of poor but happy Brasilians. Far from it.

    Like I said, nothing will be changed, but I just want to add a view other than hey dude, relax, this is Brazil. I find that response lacking I guess.
    [/QUOTE]

    Okay, I‚Äôll bite. The caricature of the poor but happy Brazilian may have been created by the tourism industry or the back packing photo journalists or the bleeding heart brigade of documentary makers, but we know, don’t we, that poverty rarely if ever propagates happiness. The disenfranchised Brazilians you describe, countless millions of them, are trapped in poverty and ignorance; a deplorable situation; an inexcusable, but not uniquely Brazilian situation.

    Much has been made recently of the emergence of a new middle class; the aspirants to a better life; stampeded into flight toward the good life by propagandist politicians along with the predator credit markets. The greater balance of the population, the peasantry, is being ignored as valueless, hopeless and simply unaffordable despite protestations to the contrary from the strutting peacock politicians that wax lyrical about education and healthcare.

    Now enter the gringo into the bowels of this social quagmire when he is repulsed and intimidated by the squalor, the crime and the seeming hopelessness of it all; a familiar scenario. This is outrageous! he cries. Somebody should do something about this! This duty done, the gringo retreats to his bubble where he learns to accommodate the system while trying to survive employing the attitude, so far so good; yet keeping a close eye on the departure lounge of the International airport.

    Brazil is unconscionably corrupt throughout its society and certainly Darwinian in its evolution; survival of the fittest. The old, the ignorant and the infirm are picked off from the back of the herd. The only succour for them in life is the belief that Jesus loves them [provided that they contribute to the support of their pastors].

  • #195478

    hoganti
    Member

    while I, the coward, tell all how happy I am to be swinging in the hammock, under the mango tree, drinking agua de coco, – “O Brasil has freed my inner vagabundo…”
    hahaha, I love this

  • #195479

    Anonymous

    ^^I’ll join you in the cowardice soon enough if all goes well.

  • #195484

    Max
    Member

    I am not annoyed that people vent about why it is hard to get anything done in Brasil, because it is hard to get anything done in Brasil and many days are frustrating days.
    I guess it is that caricature that Espirit refers to that gets under my skin because it is exactly that, a shallow and simplistic caricature and pretending to be local, by adopting some carefree local attitude that apparently all Brasilians have and which apparently keeps them all sane and happy is utter bull sh*t.
    So many poorer Brasilians have completely tuned out, just switched off, given in, given up, adopted a zombi persona, and to flip it like, hey man, that is the way to go dude, this is Brasil, it just pisses me off because I think it trivialises a much deeper issue.
    So, sorry to rain on the venting parade, but venting or those who vent is not what gets my goat. Its the punch line that inavriably always follows. that does.

  • #195485

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=Esprit][QUOTE=Richard V]I am not a missionary. I am just someone who thinks that there is more to being here in Brasil, than being here. My circumstances chose Piaui. I did not. But I know what I see, and when I see gringoes who get pissed that nothing much works so great, and the pat answer is to accept it and it will all be ok, I don`t know about that. It just sounds lazy to me and when everyone gets so lazy as to have their brains turn to blank screen from lack of giving a damn about anything, I see the results everyday and its not a jolly picture of poor but happy Brasilians. Far from it.

    Like I said, nothing will be changed, but I just want to add a view other than hey dude, relax, this is Brazil. I find that response lacking I guess.
    [/QUOTE]

    Okay, I‚Äôll bite. The caricature of the poor but happy Brazilian may have been created by the tourism industry or the back packing photo journalists or the bleeding heart brigade of documentary makers, but we know, don’t we, that poverty rarely if ever propagates happiness. The disenfranchised Brazilians you describe, countless millions of them, are trapped in poverty and ignorance; a deplorable situation; an inexcusable, but not uniquely Brazilian situation.

    Much has been made recently of the emergence of a new middle class; the aspirants to a better life; stampeded into flight toward the good life by propagandist politicians along with the predator credit markets. The greater balance of the population, the peasantry, is being ignored as valueless, hopeless and simply unaffordable despite protestations to the contrary from the strutting peacock politicians that wax lyrical about education and healthcare.

    Now enter the gringo into the bowels of this social quagmire when he is repulsed and intimidated by the squalor, the crime and the seeming hopelessness of it all; a familiar scenario. This is outrageous! he cries. Somebody should do something about this! This duty done, the gringo retreats to his bubble where he learns to accommodate the system while trying to survive employing the attitude, so far so good; yet keeping a close eye on the departure lounge of the International airport.

    Brazil is unconscionably corrupt throughout its society and certainly Darwinian in its evolution; survival of the fittest. The old, the ignorant and the infirm are picked off from the back of the herd. The only succour for them in life is the belief that Jesus loves them [provided that they contribute to the support of their pastors].

    [/QUOTE] Most Gringoes who are stiff and inflexible end up paying big attorney fees and get nowhere when confronted with the installed powers that be in Brazil. Be flexible, pay astute attention to how the locals are getting things done, and don’t believe most of what the local lawyers tell you. Also don’t believe what the politicos are saying. The truth lies beyond your imagination hidden by thick fog of a covering a labyrinth at midnight with a crescent moon.

  • #195517

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=Richard V]I am not annoyed that people vent about why it is hard to get anything done in Brasil, because it is hard to get anything done in Brasil and many days are frustrating days.

    I guess it is that caricature that Espirit refers to that gets under my skin because it is exactly that, a shallow and simplistic caricature and pretending to be local, by adopting some carefree local attitude that apparently all Brasilians have and which apparently keeps them all sane and happy is utter bull sh*t.

    So many poorer Brasilians have completely tuned out, just switched off, given in, given up, adopted a zombi persona, and to flip it like, hey man, that is the way to go dude, this is Brasil, it just pisses me off because I think it trivialises a much deeper issue.

    So, sorry to rain on the venting parade, but venting or those who vent is not what gets my goat. Its the punch line that inavriably always follows. that does.

    [/QUOTE]

    Richard, this begs the question: Given the realities of Brazil, what punch line would be acceptable to you? I am minded of the platitudes that are usually offered to the bereaved; often clumsy yet always offered with appropriate body language and voice tone. Try, if you will, to imagine someone that shares your sympathetic concerns about the plight of poor Brazilians saying in similar manner: Hey dude, we have to learn to relaxthis is Brazil. True, this is a banal as uttering, It was God’s will to the bereaved, yet this all the encompassing word, relax can substitute a thousand unspoken words of woe about the waste of human life in Brazil. Everyone alive today was born too soon for the glories that may yet come to this ill-conceived country.

  • #195529

    Richard, I think part of your frustration is viewing the (legitimate) issue from the worst possible perspective. You stated you’re in Piaui, which in every possible index of “quality of life” is in 26th place of the 26 states which make up Brasil. The poor have a tough life no matter where they live, but it can’t be much worse than when you’re at the bottom. That I think would cause any human being to become “completely tuned out, just switched off, given in, given up, adopted a zombi persona”, no matter what country in whatever hemisphere….

  • #195537

    one of the most interesting threads on here and so true… I also live in the North east and have married to some extent into such a family… the things is people are scared of change, scared of everything so they just retreat into a shell like exsistence… if you gave then say r$20,000 they or even R$100,000 there life wouldnt change much – theyd buy a big car and a few plasms… the lack of education, books and general awareness is so worrying … so you just learn to survive – day-to-day or at best week-to-week… things link a family wedding, a new baby, a win in the local classico.. bring hope and short lived joy… the novela brings some escapism…. and life plods along!!! is it the story of Brazil or just the same story of the poor all over the world?

  • #195613

    Max
    Member

    I don`t have an answer for you Espirit. It is a fair question but I don`t know. I can`t come up with a slogan that represents what I feel, because what I feel is not easily explained. I have done my best, but probably have come up short.
    I am not trying to gringo bash, and I know I can`t change much at all. All I can try and do here and now is express myself as best I can, to show a contrary view.
    And as Gringo Floripo and others have pointed out, it is a suffering of the poor everywhere that lends itself to what I see every day. I know that inept delivery is not the sole reason for what I see, but it is a part, and that makes me not inclined to buy into the pat answer of how to get by in Brasil for gringoes, and this is a forum for gringoes, so I will say my piece.
    I guess I just want gringoes to be more aware of what it is like for a poor person here to get their sh*t done, as we all need to do.
    We gringoes on this forum are likely educated, and not poor by any local standard, and when we walk in to somewhere, we get some level of recognition, even though accomplishing our task is still a grind.
    Now imagine what it is like for a poor person in the North East to get anything done. No-one pays them any attention – AT ALL.
    So when I hear flip such as brother, make like the Brazilans and take it easy, I just want to use my voice to say that is bullsh*t, and that is not the lives of the people I see every day.

  • #195618

    [QUOTE=Richard V]Now imagine what it is like for a poor person in the North East to get anything done. No-one pays them any attention – AT ALL. [/QUOTE]
    And there it is… right there! Isn’t that what all humanswant (if they’re honest), to be “noticed”, to be “acknowledged”, to be “recognized”?!? While you might not be able to help them (much) in their plight financially, you can pay them attention, and given your verbalized anguish for the poor, I have no doubt you do Richard!
    I know I shouldn’t generalize, but I think mostgringos comprehend their noblesse obligeliving here, and go that extra mile to pay attentionto (at the very least, if not actually pay better) those who have significantly less than we do. I see far too often a nouveau riche Brasilian treat service personal at a restaurant, airport, supermarket, wherever, as if they didn’t exist. No looking them in the eye, exchanging brief pleasantries, in other words “paying attention” to them. When you have nothing, the last thing you need is to be made to feel like nothing….
    Gringo.Floripa2012-01-22 19:21:42

  • #195624

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    You do realise, Richard, don’t you, that a great proportion of the world‚Äôs population suffer similarly to the poor of Brazil. You can‚Äôt have missed the pop concerts of yesteryear for the starving or Bob Geldof‚Äôs impassioned pleas when he notoriously said on TV, Give us your fu*kin money! Sure, he raised a bit of pocket money that placated gringo conscience, but the poor are still starving, the pop stars still popping and that Irish gringo earned himself a knighthood in the process.

    Sir Bob felt as you do and was, and perhaps still is, justifiably as angry as you together with many others who weep crocodile tears. Every day an average of thirty-thousand infants die because of simple things like the lack of clean water and a little food. I wonder what proportion of global sovereign debt was spent on the provision of clean water. Know this: it is not an issue and as a collective we sit on our hands and do little or nothing for the dying. What chance do you think the poor in the North-East of Brazil stand; they’re not starving and must therefore be way back in the queue for salvation.

    My first encounter with abject poverty and ignorance happened in the townships in Africa; locations that bear a remarkable similarity to parts of Brazil and with the attitudes of poor Brazilians. During my time there I visited what can be fairly described as a jungle village populated by an uncontaminated primitive people. After a few hours in their company I came to a realisation, if not an epiphany: those people were much better adjusted to life than we in the Western world; they were independent of a system based on consumerism and growth. None of them had tuned out but were completely focused on a lifestyle that was possible a thousand years old. In our terms they were the definition of ignorance: they didn’t know that they didn’t know. They didn’t know about a flat screen plasma TV spewing soaps nor the cost of healthcare of education or real estate prices or bank interest rates. They were spared such aspirations during their short life expectancy of thirty-eight years. What they didn’t know about they didn’t miss. I had no real way of knowing their state of mind but they did appear to be happy. And this brings us full circle in our discussion.

  • #195655

    toolio
    Participant

    [QUOTE=Esprit]None of them had tuned out but were completely focused on a lifestyle that was possible a thousand years old. In our terms they were the definition of ignorance: they didn’t know that they didn’t know. They didn’t know about a flat screen plasma TV spewing soaps nor the cost of healthcare of education or real estate prices or bank interest rates. They were spared such aspirations during their short life expectancy of thirty-eight years. What they didn’t know about they didn’t miss. I had no real way of knowing their state of mind but they did appear to be happy. And this brings us full circle in our discussion. [/QUOTE]
    I accept what appears to be the implied premise in your message. Material goods are not the route to happiness for many people, and ignorance of such things may have little bearing on the happiness of a people. In fact, it may enhance happiness considering–as you say–it spares those same people from aspirations related to matters of which they have no knowledge.
    However, I don’t subscribe to the blanket argument that, as is often stated, ignorance is bliss. Consider this possibility.
    Let’s assume I have a serious disease that will kill me when left untreated, but if detected in its early stages is easy curable. I am not aware of this disease, therefore I am unaffected. Consequently, my level of happiness continues unaltered. However, when I am told of the disease it is too late for treatment, and I am suddenly aware that I will soon die of a disease whose dire consequences could have been easily prevented had I known about it during my time of ignorance. Not only is my level of happiness and contentment suddenly and drastically altered, I am faced with a far shorter life than I had expected. In other words, I no longer have the capacity to live my “happy” life to its fullest potential. In aggregate, how has this affected my “happiness”? Would I then agree that what I didn’t know about I didn’t miss? Of course, the answer depends on who you are and your outlook on life, but in my case I would prefer anything but the “ignorance is bliss” approach under the circumstances.
    To get back to your African example, what if those people were aware that their 38-year expected lifespan was far shorter than the average in other parts of the world? Would they not then feel cheated out of, perhaps, another 30 years of life at their current level of happiness? Not to mention that their short lifespan would at least be partly attributable to the general circumstances of their lives (that arguably could be improved, therefore lengthening their lives)–unless they were expected to die as a result of a natural disaster, war or similar development.
    toolio2012-01-23 08:43:40

  • #195669

    Gilmour
    Member

    Cowardice? IMO you are just acting like a Brazilian, and doing the right thing. I got too much to deal with in my own life (family) to concerned for other peoples’ lives. Moreover, the gringos here are not even Brazilian, so why try to force your system of thinking onto other people? Just sit back and wait. There’s no sense trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
    Helping poors Exclamationcan be done. I know of rich Braziiansl who help out poorer people, but there’s a certain way to do that I don’t think a lot of gringos have mastered yet, especially the ones that still haven’t taken off their gringo-glasses yet.
    spongebob2012-01-23 08:01:45

  • #195677

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=toolio]
    I accept what appears to be the implied premise in your message. Material goods are not the route to happiness for many people, and ignorance of such things may have little bearing on the happiness of a people. In fact, it may enhance happiness considering–as you say–it spares those same people from aspirations related to matters of which they have no knowledge.

    However, I don’t subscribe to the blanket argument that, as is often stated, ignorance is bliss. Consider this possibility.

    Let’s assume I have a serious disease that will kill me when left untreated, but if detected in its early stages is easy curable. I am not aware of this disease, therefore I am unaffected. Consequently, my level of happiness continues unaltered. However, when I am told of the disease it is too late for treatment, and I am suddenly aware that I will soon die of a disease whose dire consequences could have been easily prevented had I known about it during my time of ignorance. Not only is my level of happiness and contentment suddenly and drastically altered, I am faced with a far shorter life than I had expected. In other words, I no longer have the capacity to live my “happy” life to its fullest potential. In aggregate, how has this affected my “happiness”? Would I then agree that what I didn’t know about I didn’t miss? Of course, the answer depends on who you are and your outlook on life, but in my case I would prefer anything but the “ignorance is bliss” approach under the circumstances.

    To get back to your African example, what if those people were aware that their 38-year expected lifespan was far shorter than the average in other parts of the world? Would they not then feel cheated out of, perhaps, another 30 years of life at their current level of happiness? Not to mention that their short lifespan would at least be partly attributable to the general circumstances of their lives (that arguably could be improved, therefore lengthening their lives)–unless they were expected to die as a result of a natural disaster, war or similar development.
    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps we ignore the concept of the lilies in the field? I accept what you say, of course, but are we not, all of us, ignorant to one degree or another at this stage in the assent of Man? Ignorant of cures for various diseases [e.g. Steve Jobs or my mother], quaking at the possibility of Armageddon, vitally concerned about climate change and diminishing natural resources, over population, political corruption, cursed by the feeble minded God concept, nationalistic vehemence, financial uncertainties, peer pressures; in short we fear the future because, as the old adage confirms: A little knowledge is dangerous. I would couple that with euthanasia’s argument concerning quality over quantity.

    We strive toward utopian values: Equality among Men, freedom, fat bellies and a flat screen in every bedroom; a corruption of today’s common ideal to be sure and an impossible dream if it is assumed that we can all get there together. The ugly truth is that all men are not equal all of the time. To think otherwise is to ignore our very nature; the noble, unenlightened insatiable savage. The noble element is that tiny voice that cries out in the night, Am I not my brother’s keeper?

  • #195799

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=spongebob]
    Cowardice? IMO you are just acting like a Brazilian, and doing the right thing. I got too much to deal with in my own life (family) to concerned for other peoples’ lives. Moreover, the gringos here are not even Brazilian, so why try to force your system of thinking onto other people? Just sit back and wait. There’s no sense trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Helping poors Exclamationcan be done. I know of rich Braziiansl who help out poorer people, but there’s a certain way to do that I don’t think a lot of gringos have mastered yet, especially the ones that still haven’t taken off their gringo-glasses yet.
    [/QUOTE]
    I’m just gonna throw in 2 pennies: in my home country the immigrants have been responsible for a whole lot of good stuff. Of course, we are all immigrants if we cannot trace our ‘lineage’ back to the indigenous ppls.
    But my point is, recent immigrants to the US were responsible for so much good stuff.
    THAT, is the biggest disappointment on this board, and only a few Brazilians I know are enlightened enough to recognize what MANY young Americans do:
    KEEP YOUR GRINGO GLASSES ON. Participate in Brazilian society as a gringo, cultivate your foreign identity.
    Immigrating is not disposing of your old culture, but transplanting it, growing it in a new place.
    By the way, the rich in Brazil make my stomach churn. As the most generous are often the middle class, which barely exists here, this place has a long way to go.
    According to my rich student, “If you are homeless in Brazil it’s because you want to be.”
    RIIIIGHT. I’ve heard that one before coming out of some ignorant Republican’s mouth.

  • #195804

    [QUOTE=expt2233] I’m just gonna throw in 2 pennies: in my home country the immigrants have been responsible for a whole lot of good stuff. Of course, we are all immigrants if we cannot trace our ‘lineage’ back to the indigenous ppls.
    But my point is, recent immigrants to the US were responsible for so much good stuff.
    [/QUOTE]
    AMEN! That’s the irritating thing about all this anti-immigration legislation and foaming at the mouth up in the northern hemisphere. Like, go gaze in the mirror! If you don’t look like a Seminole (go ‘Noles!), Choctaw, Cherokee, Iroquois, Sioux, Apache, Navajo, Hopi, or several other of the “indigenous” who occupied the North American continent before the arrival of the “white man”, then YOU ARE an immigrant!
    Yet even them, so were told, immigratedto that continent via a land bridge which no longer exists….
    Brasil has the same, if not greater history of immigration. Yes, yes, Portuguese influence defines the land (for better or worse), but each corner has it’s specific flavor. Aside from a small contingent from the Açores, the primary waves of immigrants here in SC were Germans and Italians.
    Point being… by now, we’re ALL vira-latas!

  • #195807

    Max
    Member

    Gringo.Floripo has helped to make clearer the focus of the part of this discussion I am most invested in. Invisibility hurts – hard.
    To be treated like nothing matters, that you do not matter, destroys your soul. How could it not. Yet that is how many Brasilians live their life, and they certainly do not get by, by being upitty beat, tippity top about it, gliding through with a smile, and a don`t worry be happy, broad as a bridge grin.
    It is not the easy answer. It is for most gringoes to be sure, but by peddling it as a typically Brasilian take on life, is to forget about what really hits the hearts of these people who garner no notice, ever, and then learn to live with their reality by expecting nothing, ever.

  • #195808

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    Yeah, but Sure, North America had about a hundred year start on Brazil; both countries populated by immigrants. So what happened? What’s the excuse? They’ve had the time. Where did Brazil go wrong? Does anyone think that a relative handful of odd-ball [by definition] gringos could possibly change Brazil? Perhaps Brazil has already changed the gringos.Ermm

  • #195809

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=Richard V]Gringo.Floripo has helped to make clearer the focus of the part of this discussion I am most invested in. Invisibility hurts – hard.

    To be treated like nothing matters, that you do not matter, destroys your soul. How could it not. Yet that is how many Brasilians live their life, and they certainly do not get by, by being upitty beat, tippity top about it, gliding through with a smile, and a don`t worry be happy, broad as a bridge grin.

    It is not the easy answer. It is for most gringoes to be sure, but by peddling it as a typically Brasilian take on life, is to forget about what really hits the hearts of these people who garner no notice, ever, and then learn to live with their reality by expecting nothing, ever.

    [/QUOTE]

    Richard, you’re a missionary at heart and, if you continue in this vein, Brazil will break both you and your heart. The very poor of Brazil are the flotsam and jetsam of this world; an aspect of humanity that is superfluous to requirements and unsuitable for the purpose for which it was intended. Heroic and more committed men has trodden this path; the Catholic missionaries in Africa. Most of the poor bastards lost their faith in God because of the futility of their efforts. Reform is a big boys game; a political game of will and determination. Sadly there are no votes or money in it. We walk on toward the future

  • #195811

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=Esprit]Yeah, but Sure, North America had about a hundred year start on Brazil; both countries populated by immigrants. So what happened? What’s the excuse? They’ve had the time. Where did Brazil go wrong? Does anyone think that a relative handful of odd-ball [by definition] gringos could possibly change Brazil? Perhaps Brazil has already changed the gringos.Ermm[/QUOTE] The Portuguese brought in ten times as many slaves to Brazil as were brought to the USA. Hence a true disadvantage in terms of an oversupply of unskilled labor without care or concern of Western European tradition, education, work ethic. So the forced migration to occupy Brazil continues to haunt the country. Yes a colony of Portugal, the most backward country of Western Europe has alot to do with it. Others would say that being an exporter of basic goods made Brazil a long term loser in international trade since the value added industrial countries tend to win long term against the commodity producers. That said, why not enjoy a mango with some refreshing agua de coco? GreatBallsoFire2012-01-23 22:30:25

  • #195815

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire][QUOTE=Esprit]Yeah, but Sure, North America had about a hundred year start on Brazil; both countries populated by immigrants. So what happened? What’s the excuse? They’ve had the time. Where did Brazil go wrong? Does anyone think that a relative handful of odd-ball [by definition] gringos could possibly change Brazil? Perhaps Brazil has already changed the gringos.Ermm[/QUOTE] The Portuguese brought in ten times as many slaves to Brazil as were brought to the USA. Hence a true disadvantage in terms of an oversupply of unskilled labor without care or concern of Western European tradition, education, work ethic. So the forced migration to occupy Brazil continues to haunt the country. Yes a colony of Portugal, the most backward country of Western Europe has alot to do with it. Others would say that being an exporter of basic goods made Brazil a long term loser in international trade since the value added industrial countries tend to win long term against the commodity producers. That said, why not enjoy a mango with some refreshing agua de coco? [/QUOTE]

    Your analysis may have a strong element of truth however it addresses the question of why it went wrong but fails to reason why, over such a lengthy period, it continues on a wrong path. Perhaps the truth lays in a culture not that dissimilar to that of the founding fathers; the perpetuation of elitism and subjugation; a natural human trait. Conversely, where is the other human trait, that of striving for betterment, or as they say further north, the pursuit of happiness; the American Dream? Some vital thing is missing in the Brazilian character despite the path shown. Of course any criticism laid at Portugal’s door can also demonstrably be applied to Africa. Note to NASA: when colonising other planets, think carefully. We Samba on.

  • #195865

    [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire]

    Yes a colony of Portugal, the most backward country of Western Europe has alot to do with it.
    [/QUOTE]

    GBF,
    Drawing conclusions and propagating theories requires at least some casual familiarity with the subject matter and desirably some effort to critically look at the information.
    Your obvious lack of familiarity with history is as usually appoling.
    First of all, please, answer the following questions:
    How the “the most backward country in Europe” country in Europe is home to the oldest university in Europe (University of Coimbra, 1290)?
    How “the most backward country in Europe” managed to put together much more impressive and wide-spread empire (as well as run it for much longer, i.e. over 500 years vs. a couple of hundred of years) then the British?
    All that with a fraction of the population of the British Isles…
    Aside from all that Portuguese Empire was entering into the decline stage roughly when the British Empire was emerging. I just don’t see how can you compare two entities separated by hundreds of years and completly different geo-political, intellectual, scientific, economic, and other contexts.

  • #195868

    Max
    Member

    Espirit what I am talking about has nothig to do with God, but if pointing out that a misguided, simplistic and inaccurate caricature of how many Brasilians live their lives, while not wanting to add momentum to that, makes me a missionary, then I am indeed one of those.
    I have never suggested I could change (reform) anything on a grand scale, but as Grongo.Floripo pointed out, I can treat individuals with respect (as I am sure most on this forum do), I can encourage others to step forward, speak up and not bow down, and I can choose not to buy into the myth of what life in Brazil is all about for most locals, because the reality is far from the bunkum pushed on us via the pop culture take an how life and living here is.

  • #195871

    Anonymous

    I too noticed what Richard noticed, and I too was deeply disturbed and am still deeply disturbed by it. All this talk on the forums could be turned into a book you know. I am trying to steer clear of commenting on this forum, but this thread I just had to comment on.
    Brazil’s poor are resigned. Even in the “prosperous” South, they are resigned. They have literally been forgotten. They haven’t been included in any mainstream culture. I think with Lula and Dilma it has started to change, and with the economy growing it will change, but slowly, and painfully for those middle and upper class Brazilians.
    Brazil’s poor are resigned, they feel like they can’t control anything about their own lives, they take what’s thrown at them with no arguments or fights, and it’s sad to live among people like that. There are some that are happy in their situation, they live simply, enjoy the little things in their lives, but the image I get from these few people is that they are innocent and don’t know better, and ultimately they look like animals.
    And the attitudes of the rich Brazilians also makes my stomach churn. Change in that country won’t come until it is from the bottom up. The rich will do SQUAT for Brazil. Improvement of Brazil’s condition will not come from the rich.
    As for “reform” or improving Brazil, let’s focus on the positive and what can be done. Building upon what Brazil is doing right, what its strong points are, learning from what it has done right in the past, and strengthening its strong points. Focusing on changing negative aspects or improving weak spots I think is futile. It saps your energy fast and doesn’t go very far.
    As for where Brazil went wrong, I think it is the continuation of Brazil as a Portuguese colony of material extraction for what, three centuries? 1500s – 1800s? Brazil was for very long just basically a quarry where you got your stuff for free, very little was produced. The Portuguese who “colonized” it were second sons of wealthier Portuguese families who couldn’t get very far in Portugal so they made their go in Brazil. They didn’t care for the welfare of Brazil’s Indians or the slaves, even though they had sexual relations with them. So most of the population until now were regarded as trash, the mix of indian and black and portuguese who werent given much importance. There was NEVER very much migration of white portuguese families or settlers who would continue the portuguese tradition as canada or the usa had, or even argentina. So to the european powers at the time and along Brazil’s history, most of Brazil’s population didn’t matter because they weren’t white, they did not have the legacy of a strong european tradition, whereas canada and the usa and australia and the other european colonies settled primarily by europeans had. Globally, they were just another population without importance, without the knowledge or means or position to assert themselves in a global situation against Europe.
    I think the best thing for Brazil is to lose any imperialistic ambition, or to rise above or to the position of developed nations, and to focus on its strong points and build from there. Brazil does so many things better than the rest of the world. We are in the 21st century, and the dominant economic force right now is the free market. If Brazilians could grasp that knowledge that they do many things right and better than other countries, that their country has value globally, gain the knowledge to market those strengths, then I think Brazil’s condition would be much improved.
    The world is changing and more people have money now that they want to spend than ever before. Brazil could market itself better with its strong points, and I think most of the population could get out of poverty that way. But we have to remember that the rich always want to protect their position and are willing to do anything to protect it. That is where they have to defend themselves then.
    Brazil has hope, the world has hope, but I think knowledge is the way to end poverty, and paradigms and shackles of the past have to be broken and shaken off for that to happen. It has happened before and is happening now and can happen for everyone. I hope it happens sooner than later.

  • #195872

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=BorisG] [QUOTE=GreatBallsoFire] Yes a colony of Portugal, the most backward country of Western Europe has alot to do with it. [/QUOTE]

    GBF,

    Drawing conclusions and propagating theories requires at least some casual familiarity with the subject matter and desirably some effort to critically look at the information.

    Your obvious lack of familiarity with history is as usually appoling.

    First of all, please, answer the following questions:

    How the “the most backward country in Europe” country in Europe is home to the oldest university in Europe (University of Coimbra, 1290)?

    How “the most backward country in Europe” managed to put together much more impressive and wide-spread empire (as well as run it for much longer, i.e. over 500 years vs. a couple of hundred of years) then the British?

    All that with a fraction of the population of the British Isles…

    Aside from all that Portuguese Empire was entering into the decline stage roughly when the British Empire was emerging. I just don’t see how can you compare two entities separated by hundreds of years and completly different geo-political, intellectual, scientific, economic, and other contexts.
    [/QUOTE]

    Calm down, Boris. The Portuguese together with the Romans and Greeks and a gaggle of others cannot be allowed to rest on their laurels. We thank them for their valid contribution and regret their demise and while we may be standing on their shoulders, the conversation is more about the here and now. The world is all about, What have you done for me lately? Countries, unlike old statesmen and generals that are allowed to fade away in dignity and respect, are not allowed the same luxury.

  • #195874

    I am calm, Espirit, but thank you. Let’s return to the subject in a few hundred years when superstate of Afrastralia relinquishes colonial dominance over the then backwaters of Europe(UK, and Germany) due to the utter lack of any benefits, and France and Spain fall under the conquering might of Bolivian Expeditionary forces.

  • #195875

    minhnoir
    Member

    [QUOTE=Grantham] I think the best thing for Brazil is to lose any imperialistic ambition[/QUOTE] Yes, and their delusions of grandeur. Right now, they aren’t even close to being a first-tier country, no matter how much they want to pretend otherwise.

  • #195879

    I don’t remember who’ve said it about Brazil’s ambitions, “they are not fooling anybody” LOL

  • #195881

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    I have little doubt that the majority of gringos instinctively treat the poor element of Brazilians with an awkward, if not patronising, respect. I refer of course to the hired help; servants and other unskilled trades people with whom they engage in daily social intercourse. Gringos respond in kind, coupled perhaps a tinge of embarrassment, to the subservient if not fawning demeanour that is offered. The poor know their place in this preconditioned scenario. This overwhelming politeness is alien to the gringo who may be forgiven for responding with some pathos.

    Back in the favelas I have no way of knowing how these people treat each other or how they regard their gringo superiors. I am not privy to their conversations about their lot in life, their ambitions and aspirations for both themselves and their children. Such insight would be of great interest.

  • #195883

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=BorisG]I am calm, Espirit, but thank you. Let’s return to the subject in a few hundred years when superstate of Afrastralia relinquishes colonial dominance over the then backwaters of Europe(UK, and Germany) due to the utter lack of any benefits, and France and Spain fall under the conquering might of Bolivian Expeditionary forces.
    [/QUOTE] LOLLOLLOLClap

  • #195898

    Max
    Member

    Resigned – I think that is a very eloquent way to describe what I have been trying to express – thank you Grantham.
    Resigned is not relaxed and it has nothing to do with fica tranquilo. It is a very sad state to exist under, and that is why I don`t like it when gringoes want to tell other gringoes to make like the locals and chill out.
    That is not what the locals are doing. The locals have simply resigned themselves to their fate, and I believe we should try and encourage individuals who we meet along the way, to turn that around, to not resign, and to understand that they do have worth.

  • #195900

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Richard V]Resigned – I think that is a very eloquent way to describe what I have been trying to express – thank you Grantham.
    Resigned is not relaxed and it has nothing to do with fica tranquilo. It is a very sad state to exist under, and that is why I don`t like it when gringoes want to tell other gringoes to make like the locals and chill out.
    That is not what the locals are doing. The locals have simply resigned themselves to their fate, and I believe we should try and encourage individuals who we meet along the way, to turn that around, to not resign, and to understand that they do have worth.
    [/QUOTE]
    Yes, that is the way to go. It doesn’t have to be too hard. Sometimes we complicate things when they are simple.
    There is never darkness when we refuse to see darkness. When we refuse to see only darkness, that means there has already sparked a light, even if only in our hearts and minds.
    Spread your light, make it stronger, I’m sure there are other lights out there.

  • #195909

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    Goodness, this is all becoming rather tedious. On the one hand we have the subject of the poor and abject poverty and creeping into this we have the separate problem of gringos attempting to make a life here with the ambition to assimilate into Brazilian society. Are we confusing the many and varied infuriating issues that give rise to, Vent your frustrations with the poverty in this country? I hope not. Such issues initiate the advice from old hands at the game when they say, Chill out or freak out. Excellent advice if one is to preserve one’s sanity.

    The inefficiencies and general lack lustre of everything related to service and infrastructure, especially the mindless bureaucracy and general corruption requires that any sentient first-world dazzling urbanite must shut down half of his brain in ice cool mellow.

    A resolution to make headway toward the elimination poverty appears to be, regrettably, beyond the horizon of political will. In this context, the evil twins of ignorance and poverty is a Brazilian problem for Brazilians exclusively. Of course this doesn’t preclude an individual gringo from supporting this worthy cause.

  • #195929

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Esprit] <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt” =Msonormal><SPAN style=”LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Times New Roman’,’serif’; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-: EN-GB”>I have little doubt that the majority of gringos instinctively treat the poor element of Brazilians with an awkward, if not patronising, respect. I refer of course to the hired help; servants and other unskilled trades people with whom they engage in daily social intercourse. Gringos respond in kind, coupled perhaps a tinge of embarrassment, to the subservient if not fawning demeanour that is offered. The poor know their place in this preconditioned scenario. This overwhelming politeness is alien to the gringo who may be forgiven for responding with some pathos. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>
    <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt” =Msonormal><SPAN style=”LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Times New Roman’,’serif’; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-: EN-GB”>Back in the favelas I have no way of knowing how these people treat each other or how they regard their gringo superiors. I am not privy to their conversations about their lot in life, their ambitions and aspirations for both themselves and their children. Such insight would be of great interest. <SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN>[/QUOTE]
    You seem to think the word ‘gringo’ means ‘rich.’
    Let me tell you. The majority of people flying around in helicopters in SP and living in Leblon and Lagoa in Rio are 100% brasileiro nato.
    I, on the other hand, along with many Bolivians, Peruvians and other gringos, have consistently earned less than $1.000 per month for the last few years.
    Now, I have an ‘education’ and am bilingual, but that doesn’t mean anything here in Brazil, does it?
    This is not Mexico 30 years ago. Being a gringo does not mean being privileged.
    Being privileged means going to an expensive Brazilian private school, or living with mamãe e papai while you study for a concurso that will pay you R8.000 X 13 every year with 30 days of vacation and no possibility of being fired.
    What I mean is, while I’m not the ‘hired help’ I barely earn more than them. The guy at the açaí stand earns R600+ and has vacation. I earned R1.000 and had none.

  • #195930

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=OldMiller] [QUOTE=Grantham] I think the best thing for Brazil is to lose any imperialistic ambition[/QUOTE] Yes, and their delusions of grandeur. Right now, they aren’t even close to being a first-tier country, no matter how much they want to pretend otherwise. [/QUOTE]
    This is because people confuse ‘development’ with ‘economic size.’

  • #195942

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=expt2233] [QUOTE=OldMiller] [QUOTE=Grantham] I think the best thing for Brazil is to lose any imperialistic ambition[/QUOTE] Yes, and their delusions of grandeur. Right now, they aren’t even close to being a first-tier country, no matter how much they want to pretend otherwise. [/QUOTE]
    This is because people confuse ‘development’ with ‘economic size.’
    [/QUOTE]
    Yes, I agree. Australia does it the best I think. Not a large economy, in fact a very small one, but one of the most developed, if not the most developed, besides Norway, country for more of its citizens than any other country on Earth.

  • #195959

    Deleted User
    Moderator

    [QUOTE=expt2233]

    You seem to think the word ‘gringo’ means ‘rich.’

    Let me tell you. The majority of people flying around in helicopters in SP and living in Leblon and Lagoa in Rio are 100% brasileiro nato.

    I, on the other hand, along with many Bolivians, Peruvians and other gringos, have consistently earned less than $1.000 per month for the last few years.

    Now, I have an ‘education’ and am bilingual, but that doesn’t mean anything here in Brazil, does it?

    This is not Mexico 30 years ago. Being a gringo does not mean being privileged.

    Being privileged means going to an expensive Brazilian private school, or living with mamãe e papai while you study for a concurso that will pay you R8.000 X 13 every year with 30 days of vacation and no possibility of being fired.

    What I mean is, while I’m not the ‘hired help’ I barely earn more than them. The guy at the açaí stand earns R600+ and has vacation. I earned R1.000 and had none.
    [/QUOTE]

    Hitherto the discussion is about poverty and surely it is accepted that the term rich is relative to one’s means. I feel that it’s broadly accepted that poverty is linked to education and it’s obvious from your post that you have had one, yet despite this you continue to live what can only be described as an impoverished lifestyle, earning a little as you claim.

    This does not bode well for the future of Brazil given your personal experience as a model example. If an educated and articulate bilingual cannot make the grade after a few years, what hope is there for the teaming masses? Something is very wrong with your scenario if the same should hold true for a Brazilian. In any event, the essential difference between you and the Brazilian poor is choice; a privilege denied the poor who are locked into the poverty trap.

    In the longer term be assured that the majority of those flying in helicopters in the future will be the product of the Mamae e Papai system that nurtured them. If you want to get ahead in Brazil, first pick your parents. Anything else require talent.

  • #195984

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Esprit] [QUOTE=expt2233] You seem to think the word ‘gringo’ means ‘rich.’ Let me tell you. The majority of people flying around in helicopters in SP and living in Leblon and Lagoa in Rio are 100% brasileiro nato. I, on the other hand, along with many Bolivians, Peruvians and other gringos, have consistently earned less than $1.000 per month for the last few years. Now, I have an ‘education’ and am bilingual, but that doesn’t mean anything here in Brazil, does it? This is not Mexico 30 years ago. Being a gringo does not mean being privileged. Being privileged means going to an expensive Brazilian private school, or living with mamãe e papai while you study for a concurso that will pay you R8.000 X 13 every year with 30 days of vacation and no possibility of being fired. What I mean is, while I’m not the ‘hired help’ I barely earn more than them. The guy at the açaí stand earns R600+ and has vacation. I earned R1.000 and had none. [/QUOTE]

    <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt” =Msonormal><SPAN style=”LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Times New Roman’,’serif’; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-: EN-GB”>Hitherto the discussion is about poverty and surely it is accepted that the term rich is relative to one‚Äôs means. I feel that it‚Äôs broadly accepted that poverty is linked to education and it‚Äôs obvious from your post that you have had one, yet despite this you continue to live what can only be described as an impoverished lifestyle, earning a little as you claim.

    This does not bode well for the future of Brazil given your personal experience as a model example. If an educated and articulate bilingual cannot make the grade after a few years, what hope is there for the teaming masses? Something is very wrong with your scenario if the same should hold true for a Brazilian. In any event, the essential difference between you and the Brazilian poor is choice; a privilege denied the poor who are locked into the poverty trap.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>

    <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt” =Msonormal><SPAN style=”LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Times New Roman’,’serif’; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-: EN-GB”>In the longer term be assured that the majority of those flying in helicopters in the future will be the product of the Mamae e Papai system that nurtured them. If you want to get ahead in Brazil, first pick your parents. Anything else require talent. <SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><SPAN style=”mso-spacerun: yes”>¬†</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN>[/QUOTE]
    Talent?
    I’m not sure if you are aware of this or not, but there is something called ‘social mobility.’
    If you were born a poor, intelligent, talented person in the US or in Brazil, where would you be more capable of moving up the social ladder?
    Well, if you guessed Brazil, you need to rethink how ‘talent’ plays into things.

  • #196025

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Well, if you guessed Brazil, you need to rethink how ‘talent’ plays into things.[/QUOTE]
    Silvio Santos comes to mind, and Camilo Cola, and Samuel Klein and several others.

  • #196028

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Well, if you guessed Brazil, you need to rethink how ‘talent’ plays into things.[/QUOTE]
    Silvio Santos comes to mind, and Camilo Cola, and Samuel Klein and several others.[/QUOTE]
    Do they include any training in statistics in cursos de direito?

  • #196034

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    Why statistics?
    How many people in the US, born to (dirt)poor families have made similar success, or, have, so to say “lived the american dream”? And don’t come up with William H. Gates Jr. (Sr was a prominent lawyer) D Trump (Sr was a real estate developer) H. Ford comes to mind though.
    In Brazil, you could add Francesco Matarazzo, Jorge Gerdau Johannpeter, Valentim dos Santos Diniz, Amador Aguiar, Alair Martins.

  • #196039

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] Why statistics?
    How many people in the US, born to (dirt)poor families have made similar success, or, have, so to say “lived the american dream”? And don’t come up with William H. Gates Jr. (Sr was a prominent lawyer) D Trump (Sr was a real estate developer) H. Ford comes to mind though.
    In Brazil, you could add Francesco Matarazzo, Jorge Gerdau Johannpeter, Valentim dos Santos Diniz, Amador Aguiar, Alair Martins.[/QUOTE]
    See Sven, this is why you are a lawyer and not a sociologist.
    People devote their lives to studying social mobility. It’s not a question of listing examples you are familiar with.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Intergenerational_mobility_graph-1.jpg
    Where do you think Brazil stands on the social mobility scale? You are free to use statistics and google to find the answer.expt22332012-01-25 08:57:42

  • #196065

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Where do you think Brazil stands on the social mobility scale? You are free to use statistics and google to find the answer.[/QUOTE]
    Actually, Brazil is doing quite well on the social mobility scale nowadays. Many families are moving up a class due to improved income, better schooling (less alphabetics) and improved opportunities (more jobs).
    http://www.econ.yale.edu/conference/neudc03/papers/4d-dunn.pdf
    “Using data from Brazil‚Äôs 1996 PNAD annual household survey, I estimate mobility by
    two-sample two-stage least squares for all males of age 25-34 with reports of their father’s
    education. This method, which uses fathers educations to instrument for fathers earnings and
    combines moments from two samples, produces an elasticity estimate of 0.69. I also estimate
    mobility by traditional OLS methods for the subset of individuals for whom fathers earnings
    were directly observed. This method results in an elasticity estimate of 0.53. “
    In your figure it’s 0.47 for the US

  • #196071

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Where do you think Brazil stands on the social mobility scale? You are free to use statistics and google to find the answer.[/QUOTE]
    Actually, Brazil is doing quite well on the social mobility scale nowadays. Many families are moving up a class due to improved income, better schooling (less alphabetics) and improved opportunities (more jobs).
    http://www.econ.yale.edu/conference/neudc03/papers/4d-dunn.pdf
    “Using data from Brazil‚Äôs 1996 PNAD annual household survey, I estimate mobility by
    two-sample two-stage least squares for all males of age 25-34 with reports of their father’s
    education. This method, which uses fathers educations to instrument for fathers earnings and
    combines moments from two samples, produces an elasticity estimate of 0.69. I also estimate
    mobility by traditional OLS methods for the subset of individuals for whom fathers earnings
    were directly observed. This method results in an elasticity estimate of 0.53. “
    In your figure it’s 0.47 for the US [/QUOTE]
    Keep laughing… The lower the number, the more socially mobile Sven! Again, your training in statistics is lacking.
    This is not a pissing contest. I just don’t get how anyone who reads could demonize the US and praise Brazil the way a lot of expats living in Brazil do.
    I’m glad Brazil is growing and improving.

  • #196083

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=expt2233] I just don’t get how anyone who reads could demonize the US and praise Brazil the way a lot of expats living in Brazil do.[/QUOTE]
    I don’t demonize at all, I just take the things as I see them, and the way I see it, I would not want to live in the United States, it’s rapidly becoming a fascist country.

  • #196089

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233] I just don’t get how anyone who reads could demonize the US and praise Brazil the way a lot of expats living in Brazil do.[/QUOTE]
    I don’t demonize at all, I just take the things as I see them, and the way I see it, I would not want to live in the United States, it’s rapidly becoming a fascist country.[/QUOTE]
    From wikipedia:
    “Fascism ( /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek rejuvenation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood through a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through discipline, indoctrination, physical education, and eugenics.[3][4] “
    That is certainly not what is happening in the US. I think you should spend some time in cities there (NYC, SF, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Boston) to see what I mean.
    In fact, if you look at the country’s entire history, the problems we are talking about are a blip, a spot. They are there, but there are larger problems looming; global, economic and environmental problems that will also affect Brazil and every other country on earth (unemployment caused by technology, the elimination of simpler forms of work).
    A lot of the insanity in the US has come about since 2001, just a decade ago, and in 10 years I’m guessing we will be discussing different problems.
    Meanwhile in Brazil: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/world/americas/in-brazil-protection-of-amazon-rainforest-takes-a-step-back.html?scp=4&sq=brazil&st=cse

  • #196090

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233] I just don’t get how anyone who reads could demonize the US and praise Brazil the way a lot of expats living in Brazil do.[/QUOTE]

    I don’t demonize at all, I just take the things as I see them, and the way I see it, I would not want to live in the United States, it’s rapidly becoming a fascist country.[/QUOTE] I agree that the USA is not perfect, Sven, but it is light years ahead of Brazil, which is a dictatorship. Lula dictated Dilma into her job. The courts in Brazil are a joke. The public schools and health system in shambles, and the 50,000 people shot and killed each year make Brazil one of the most violent countries in the world. If you can buy a Fiat uno Mille in 80 payments, have a geladeira and TV you are “middle class” in Brazil. Sure, not a book in the house, perhaps a video game and a color tv. THat’s about it.

  • #196096

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=Twirly] In many ways Brazil is a dump but I like it here and I’m creating a future for me that looks very promising.
    As for the US they can go f**k themselves f**king fascist country. [/QUOTE]
    That’s a great argument about the U.S., Twirly!
    You sound like the type that goes around spraying the anarchy symbol on Starbucks…
    So much hate; so little substance/rationality.

  • #196108

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    That is certainly not what is happening in the US. I think you should spend some time in cities there (NYC, SF, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Boston) to see what I mean.
    [/QUOTE]
    As a matter of fact, in better times, I lived in New York, so I know what you mean. New York is hardly the US, San Francisco even less.
    You should check out the bible belt.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    In fact, if you look at the country’s entire history, the problems we are talking about are a blip, a spot. [/QUOTE]
    So the compulsatory castration of the mentally impaired was another blip, the McCarthy period another blip, compulsatory internment of Americans of Japanese decent another blip, segregation was another blip, and let’s not forget the killing all the indians blip.
    Lots of blips and spots….
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    A lot of the insanity in the US has come about since 2001, just a decade ago, and in 10 years I’m guessing we will be discussing different problems.
    [/QUOTE]
    Sure, every decade it’s own blip and spot.

  • #196114

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233]
    That is certainly not what is happening in the US. I think you should spend some time in cities there (NYC, SF, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Boston) to see what I mean.
    [/QUOTE]
    As a matter of fact, in better times, I lived in New York, so I know what you mean. New York is hardly the US, San Francisco even less.
    You should check out the bible belt.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    In fact, if you look at the country’s entire history, the problems we are talking about are a blip, a spot. [/QUOTE]
    So the compulsatory castration of the mentally impaired was another blip, the McCarthy period another blip, compulsatory internment of Americans of Japanese decent another blip, segregation was another blip, and let’s not forget the killing all the indians blip.
    Lots of blips and spots….
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    A lot of the insanity in the US has come about since 2001, just a decade ago, and in 10 years I’m guessing we will be discussing different problems.
    [/QUOTE]
    Sure, every decade it’s own blip and spot.[/QUOTE]
    Now that is a comment that I have heard in Brazil!
    NYC is not America. Umm, what country do you think it’s in?
    Yes, lots of blips, lots of problems.
    Please, stay in Brazil. It’s clear you despise ignorant, fearful Americans.
    I wonder if Brazil could ever do any of the things you’ve mentioned?! Or has?!
    Nationalism is a real disease man, you have a bad case of it.
    By the way – the Bible belt? Um yes, I live in Brazil, where most people receive a religious ‘education.expt22332012-01-25 13:39:41

  • #196119

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    NYC is not America. Umm, what country do you think it’s in?
    [/QUOTE]
    Reading is difficult isn’t it?
    I said it HARDLY is America. NYC on one side and SF on the other side are separated by the midwest (bible belt).
    You can’t determine what a country is like based on 4 or 5 big cities.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Please, stay in Brazil. It’s clear you despise ignorant, fearful Americans.[/QUOTE]
    That’s exactly the type I don’t like. I never said despise though. Your words not mine.
    There are a lot of great americans too.
    By the way, I don’t like arrogant dutch people either. However that “the grass is always greener in my country” is typical for arrogant, ignorant and fearful americans, always trying to teach the world “their way”.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Nationalism is a real disease man, you have a bad case of it.[/QUOTE]
    Not me, I’m not a national
    You on the other hand…..
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    By the way – the Bible belt? Um yes, I live in Brazil, where most people receive a religious ‘education.'[/QUOTE]
    Yes, very unconstitutional and real crap, but at least they don’t deny, in general, evolution.

  • #196125

    danblack
    Member

    Why is gas cheaper in Argentina than Brasil where there is a ton? Gas is $3 dollars a gallon in Argentina.

    Where does all the tax money go in Brasil? For sure not to the people.
  • #196131

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=JB68] Where does all the tax money go in Brasil? For sure not to the people.[/QUOTE]
    Depends…
    What segment of “the people” did you have in mind???

  • #196136

    celso
    Member

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=JB68] Where does all the tax money go in Brasil? For sure not to the people. [/QUOTE]

    Depends…

    What segment of “the people” did you have in mind???[/QUOTE] Most of it is used to service the debt at 11%, the second highest rates in the world.

  • #196156

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233]
    NYC is not America. Umm, what country do you think it’s in?
    [/QUOTE]
    Reading is difficult isn’t it?
    I said it HARDLY is America. NYC on one side and SF on the other side are separated by the midwest (bible belt).
    You can’t determine what a country is like based on 4 or 5 big cities.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Please, stay in Brazil. It’s clear you despise ignorant, fearful Americans.[/QUOTE]
    That’s exactly the type I don’t like. I never said despise though. Your words not mine.
    There are a lot of great americans too.
    By the way, I don’t like arrogant dutch people either. However that “the grass is always greener in my country” is typical for arrogant, ignorant and fearful americans, always trying to teach the world “their way”.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Nationalism is a real disease man, you have a bad case of it.[/QUOTE]
    Not me, I’m not a national
    You on the other hand…..
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    By the way – the Bible belt? Um yes, I live in Brazil, where most people receive a religious ‘education.'[/QUOTE]
    Yes, very unconstitutional and real crap, but at least they don’t deny, in general, evolution.[/QUOTE]
    Actually, NYC, SF, Seattle, LA, Miami are as American as America can be. That’s because America, like most developed countries, is primarily an urban country. As far as I can remember, the US became more urban than rural in about 1920.
    Your knowledge of American geography reveals not only that you are talking about something you are ignorant about, but that your ignorance also has led you to be a prejudice filled person. See, the ‘midwest’ and the ‘bible belt’ are not the same thing.
    And for that matter, there is nothing wrong with the bible belt, nor the midwest.
    I wonder if your disdain runs as deep for the selfish Brazilian rich, or for that matter for the ignorant, homophobic, religious Brazilians.
    Does it? Something tells me you greet ignorance in Brazil with a more ‘oh that’s a pity’ tone than in your own country or in the ‘developed countries.’
    You’re not a nationalist? Please. You are clearly anti-American. I think the US is an OK place. It’s far from perfect. Anyone who demonizes it like you do and lives in Brazil and praises Brazil the way you do is clearly a zealous convert! Nationalist!
    Oh and by the way, who denies evolution in the US? How many people learn that in school?
    I’d love to debate that topic with you by the way. Judging from your understanding of statistics your education is hardly better than that received in the bible belt.

  • #196240

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    And for that matter, there is nothing wrong with the bible belt, nor the midwest.
    [/QUOTE]
    Besides the fact that they teach intelligent design, and that it’s full of religious fanatics…
    Not much.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    I wonder if your disdain runs as deep for the selfish Brazilian rich, or for that matter for the ignorant, homophobic, religious Brazilians.
    Does it? Something tells me you greet ignorance in Brazil with a more ‘oh that’s a pity’ tone than in your own country or in the ‘developed countries.'[/QUOTE]
    Yes it does, and I treat all fanatics equally. Are you one of them?
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    You’re not a nationalist? Please. You are clearly anti-American. [/QUOTE]
    1) I’m not anti american, but I’m not pro-american either. It holds somewhere in the middle.
    2) Being anti american does not make someone a nationalist, it just makes someone anti american.
    3) Your pro-america whatever it does, that’s nationalist.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Anyone who demonizes it like you do and lives in Brazil and praises Brazil the way you do is clearly a zealous convert! Nationalist![/QUOTE]
    You seem like a bitter poor guy, I pity you. I don’t demonize america, just a certain type of american, your kind of american.
    I can’t be a convert, as I have never been a zealous pro-american, like you obviously are. Nor do I praise Brazil in everything it does, you keep moving away from the topic, freedom and social liberties.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Oh and by the way, who denies evolution in the US? How many people learn that in school?[/QUOTE]
    Actually, several US presidential candidates did:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0-ktoPpNHA
    Ron Paul:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw&feature=related
    Intelligent design and creationism in schools:
    http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2009/01/louisiana-creat.html

  • #196253

    sven van ‘t Veer
    Participant

    On and Mit Romney has a very weird position on creationism, intelligent design and evolution:
    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/05/11/romney-elaborates-on-evolution/
    “I‚Äôm not exactly sure what is meant by intelligent design, he said. But I believe God is intelligent and I believe he designed the creation. And I believe he used the process of evolution to create the human body.”

    Question is then, what did god use to create the monkey and the cow?sven2012-01-26 07:46:40

  • #196254

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233]
    And for that matter, there is nothing wrong with the bible belt, nor the midwest.
    [/QUOTE]
    Besides the fact that they teach intelligent design, and that it’s full of religious fanatics…
    Not much.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    I wonder if your disdain runs as deep for the selfish Brazilian rich, or for that matter for the ignorant, homophobic, religious Brazilians.
    Does it? Something tells me you greet ignorance in Brazil with a more ‘oh that’s a pity’ tone than in your own country or in the ‘developed countries.'[/QUOTE]
    Yes it does, and I treat all fanatics equally. Are you one of them?
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    You’re not a nationalist? Please. You are clearly anti-American. [/QUOTE]
    1) I’m not anti american, but I’m not pro-american either. It holds somewhere in the middle.
    2) Being anti american does not make someone a nationalist, it just makes someone anti american.
    3) Your pro-america whatever it does, that’s nationalist.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Anyone who demonizes it like you do and lives in Brazil and praises Brazil the way you do is clearly a zealous convert! Nationalist![/QUOTE]
    You seem like a bitter poor guy, I pity you. I don’t demonize america, just a certain type of american, your kind of american.
    I can’t be a convert, as I have never been a zealous pro-american, like you obviously are. Nor do I praise Brazil in everything it does, you keep moving away from the topic, freedom and social liberties.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    Oh and by the way, who denies evolution in the US? How many people learn that in school?[/QUOTE]
    Actually, several US presidential candidates did:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0-ktoPpNHA
    Ron Paul:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw&feature=related
    Intelligent design and creationism in schools:
    http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2009/01/louisiana-creat.html
    [/QUOTE]
    You need to look up the midwest on wikipedia. While some would call Michigan the ‘great lakes’ and some would call it the ‘midwest’, are these the ppl you hate?
    The U. of Michigan? Ever heard of it?
    The ‘midwest’ and ‘bible’ belt have more great universities than your whole COUNTRY and your whole adopted COUNTRY (Brazil).
    Stop the hate. There are great people everywhere.
    Being ‘anti’ any group of people is insane. It seems that’s what you are. Anti-American!
    And here, it’s nationalist. That’s the national religion.
    That and futebol.expt22332012-01-26 07:49:37

  • #196327

    Anonymous

    [QUOTE=sven] [QUOTE=expt2233]
    And for that matter, there is nothing wrong with the bible belt, nor the midwest.
    [/QUOTE]
    Besides the fact that they teach intelligent design, and that it’s full of religious fanatics…
    Not much.
    [QUOTE=expt2233]
    The Midwest is not the bible belt, and some of the countries most progressive states are in the Midwest. The U.S. is diverse, just like Brazil is. And intelligent design is not taught in many schools at all. In fact, only in the deep South is that even really an issue at this point. I have never met a single American who was taught ID, and saying that the Midwest is filled with religious fanatics is just flat-out false.

  • #196330

    Gilmour
    Member

    Ahh… Sven and Expat2233 going at it. Why? Isn’t there something more productive?

  • #14923

    hazlit
    Member

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