January 5, 2007 at 8:42 am #160535
hey, I’m new to this forum and I was wondering if you guys could help me… So I travelled to Brazil and I am now looking into investing into land for a retirement home because it’s warm and I really enjoyed the country… My plan is to actually buy the land now and build the house in 5-6 years and go there for vacations for a few weeks a year and then spend longer times when I am retired… max 3 months as per the visa
I found a website http://www.beachpropertybrazil.comand they are selling 1/3 acre lots for $9,500 in fortim beach and flecheiras… I wanted to know if anyone had any experience in buying land in Brazil, and if this company is legitimate and also any information a foreigner (canadian) should know before investing…
thanks for all your help guys
January 5, 2007 at 8:53 am #160539
Well, you know the saying… if it sounds too good to be true….
The best way to know about this, or any listing you might see on the internet, is actually to go and dar uma olhada. As a foreigner, you want to buy what is called escritura publica. IMO, best to avoid posse, at least until you have been in the country awhile, and know what to check on, with property that is posse.You’ll find plenty of info on buying property on other threads in the forum.
January 5, 2007 at 9:04 am #160541
Best thing to do is head down here – and make contact with some local estate agency’s and get some advice from some local gringos (if there are any).
I wouldn’t even bother looking for Land on the internet – apartments? maybe but land your wasting your time.
Remember to haggle with the price and have a good look around before making any offers.
January 5, 2007 at 10:52 am #160549
I would never buy anything in Brazil from a company that advertises prices in foreign currencies and does not indicate the legal status in Brazil. Also, don’t buy anything whithout having seen it with your own eyes. And have everything, including possible problems with a building permit, or in case of beach with the impossibility to actually OWN it, checked by a lawyer. And no, not the lawyer they offer as a service……
January 5, 2007 at 10:58 am #160551
these are small lots … buy four …
January 5, 2007 at 11:27 am #160554
Neither would I buy something from a foreign(non brazilian) site. A quick search gets me to a site (brazilian) that sells lots (450 sq meters) for 17K US$, a lot more than you mention.
Something that cought my eye:
The best lots are still for sale while the worst have been sold out.
On another site someone told you that “brazil isn’t for beginners”. Although I don’t agree totaly, tomjo’s advice is good. Go there, go find some real estate agents, ask around about “loteamentos” and buy something from a local dealer.
I wouldn’t trust the lawyers they offer as a service either.
“We have several complete approved projects and large beachfront lands with over 2 Kms of beachfront available for sale”
Most “beachfront” in the area is park/eco-refuge as they show on their propper map.
I did not see a CREA number on their site, needed to legally deal realestate in Brazil.
Go on another vacation, with the intent to buy something, have some caipirinhas and find a good CREA licensed real estate office to help you.
January 5, 2007 at 12:05 pm #160556
Well, there is one retiring every minute… Don’t take it personally, it is just a modus operandi of many a real estate related business down here.
Up your bullsh*t sensors and maximize your attention, then triple the effort and then you might be marginally safe, but then, of course, this is Brazil, so anything is possible…
January 5, 2007 at 5:27 pm #160584
Great, thanks for all the replies, they were very helpful. I was kinda leaning towards that site being BS and just wanted to see if lots get sold online or not which seems that its not the case
I am not sure what the best area to look in is and is it true that in brazil you own the property?
January 5, 2007 at 8:18 pm #160606
You might want to visit Natal, Maceio, Joao Pessoa, and some other location up North East. Try to spend some time (like a couple of weeks at least) at each location.
Hang out with ex-pats who reside there (keep your BS sensor on high alert), hang out with locals ( a short Portuguese course with a stay with a hosting family might do wonders). Stay at temporada instead of a hotel. Get to know the area where you are staying.
Do not rush into anyting. Rent before buying. Keep your options open. Have fun looking. Focus on the process, not on getting “the best deal” and the result will be much better then “to the point” RE shopping strategy usually employed by the new arrivals.
This forum has an excellent collection of hardened ex-pats and helpful Brasileiros and Brasileiras. Use us as a sounding board and BS litmus test.
January 5, 2007 at 8:24 pm #160609
[QUOTE=BorisG]This forum has an excellent collection of hardened ex-pats … [/QUOTE] … sounds like something from a ‘B’ movie plot synopsis …
January 5, 2007 at 8:31 pm #160610
…indeed. My whole Brazilian experience (10+ years) constantly oscillates between a “‘B’ movie plot synopsis” and Alice in the Wonderland experience.
January 6, 2007 at 2:47 pm #160697
haha thanks guys… I’m definitely going to be around this site for a while and do lots of reading… I am in no rush as this is a long term plan so i’ll definitely do the research first thanks again!!
January 16, 2007 at 9:21 pm #161866
I did not see a CREA number on their site, needed to legally deal realestate in Brazil.
Go on another vacation, with the intent to buy something, have some caipirinhas and find a good CREA licensed real estate office to help you.[/QUOTE]
Sven…. is dutch beer so bad that you are still suffering from the hangover????? CREA doesn’t license real estate offices, it is an engineering council. The licensing authority for real estate is CRECI.
January 17, 2007 at 8:15 am #161899
Man, these CRwhatevers are so damn confusing. Every occupation has a CRwhatever
CRECI, CREA, CRM, CRO, CRA, CRQ, CRE, CRP, CRMV, CRC, CRBM, CRF.
For you it’s simple. You have a CREA and that’s it.
At least as a lawyer I will have no CRL but OAB, easier to remember
January 17, 2007 at 9:01 am #161913
You forgot one Sven, the organization that runs them all… CRAP!
January 17, 2007 at 9:06 am #161914
[QUOTE=Gringo.Floripa] You forgot one Sven, the organization that runs them all… CRAP! ¬†
January 18, 2007 at 5:22 am #162066
Good morning. My husband and I are British and Canadian and have bought two propertie sin Brazil over the last three years, an apt in Fortaleza and a beach house in Morro Branco. Looked at Fortim too, nice area, but a bit too far from airport in Fortaleza for us. We bought using an American/Brazillian guy in Fortaleza, but he has moved away. The apartment purchase was easy, the beach house a bit more complicated. Have see in the site you identify, but di not purchase through them. Make sure your agent is CRECI registered and get and independent lawyer
February 4, 2007 at 5:08 pm #164012
It would be helpful if you posted your CRECI and your contact numbers.
March 18, 2007 at 2:23 am #167885
Ya it seems insane to think that americans/canadians and even europeans are buying property online without stepping into Brazil until after the fact. Which isn’t to say it’s impossible to complete a transaction and not gain a handsome return. This is the right time to buy/invest in Brazil especially if you’re interseted in living there or have a liking of the country. Whatever happened to buying a couple apart/hotels and renting them out, they produce great value in their returns. Especially if you’re an owner in Rio or SP.
There is a lot of nonesense and complicated aspects in doing real-estate investments in Brazil. I think however if you speak portuguese, know the country/culture well enough. You’re bound to find success in your prospects, but yes not always.
I have many friends in the US who’re paying for their houses all over again. lol.. Sad actually… Brazillifestyle2011-03-19 02:25:20
March 19, 2007 at 3:18 pm #168011
BE CAREFUL, very careful. Be sure you know what you are buying. Know the area and the property, personally. Do as much research as possible; don’t buy through second parties. Find a reputable broker with a good cartorio; use them and don’t try to cut corners. Make sure you register the property at the time of the sales transaction. Lastly, get all the info you need to calculate and fully understand your ROI as much as possible before buying.
This being said and in my opinion, many properties are excellent buys in Brasil these days…if you are have the money and the time to acquire.
Just remember, when it comes to property, there are also some deals that should be avoided. Brasilian property deals can sometimes be very creative, and very risky. Few properties are good business unless the title is attainable at the time of sale. For this, you need to be here.Grads2011-03-20 15:25:56
March 20, 2007 at 11:31 am #168140
Hey, great advise!
March 21, 2007 at 8:48 am #168263
It would be good to, to verify if the seller is actually the owner. You can’t buy or sell “posse” (posession). A registered title to “posse” is not ownership, but merely one of many ways to prove “posse”.
March 21, 2007 at 10:56 am #168284
Good point, Sven. One more example of the need for care: In the complicated system of brasilian property rights, it is possible to have ownership of use (uso/posso) without having actual ownership of the title to the property.
(How this is possible would be another discussion.)
The only way to be sure about the legal title owner of any property in Brasil is to go to the title office (Cartorio de Registro de Imoveis in the area the property is located) and get a certified copy of the title (Certidao de Propridade) (cost about R$30) It is better to get a CURRENT certified copy for yourself before doing business (or at least ask seller for a current certified copy). It is also important to get a current copy of the property tax statement (IPTU) to ensure the records match at the city hall too.
This is primary to ever seriously consider buying any property (new or old). After that, there are many other twists and turns in brasil property transactions, for which, in my opinion, you need a good (sic) broker (your own) with good cartorio relations. The broker fees might make the transactions more expensive, but he/she can also save you a lot of pain too…if they are experienced and reputable. Also, you can ask the cartorio to review any sales contract, though it may take a little time, finessing and $.
I’ve learned one thing: Ultimately, it is the buyer himself who is responsible for understanding all the terms of the contract agreement and no one else. If you buy a property, know the terms and make sure the one receiving the money will transfer the title to your name (at the cartorio).
A last consideration for the gringo buyer: Do you understand portugues?, because this system is it.Grads2011-03-22 11:00:57
March 21, 2007 at 12:25 pm #168294
[QUOTE=Grads] Good point, Sven. One more example of the need for care: In the complicated system of brasilian property rights, it is possible to have ownership of use (uso/posso) without having actual ownership of the title to the property.[/QUOTE]
Posse is not ownership, it’s a factual situation. You can’t own posse.
The only way to be sure about the legal title owner of any property in Brasil is to go to the title office (Cartorio de Registro de Imoveis in the area the property is located) and get a certified copy of the title (Certidao de Propridade) (cost about R$30) It is better to get a CURRENT certified copy for yourself before doing business (or at least ask seller for a current certified copy). It is also important to get a current copy of the property tax statement (IPTU) to ensure the records match at the city hall too. [/QUOTE]
The title however is not absolute. Cartorios only provide the presumtion of truth. One will need certidões negativos of the Cartorios de Distribuição also to have some level of certainty.
March 21, 2007 at 2:23 pm #168303
Correctively exact, Sven. BTW, after determining the title owner on the Certidao de Properdade, the certidoes negativos can be accessed on-line. (Why does one need to get these anyway?) I do not remember the website, and I am not prepared to continue this thread all the way through sales transaction, complete with all the requirements or pitfalls. Only…
Suffice it to say when buying property in Brasil, it is best to either already be an expert (in which case one doesn’t need this forum), or consult one. The laws and the system in Brasil can be very confusing for gringoes at first. Buying property in Brasil is risky business when taken lightly, but it can be good business when protocols are cautiously followed.Grads2011-03-22 14:24:49
January 6, 2011 at 8:42 am #18194
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