Sean is May Be Going Home
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Category: Brazil
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Topic: Sean is May Be Going Home
Posted By: sven
Subject: Sean is May Be Going Home
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 22:47
It seems that this history finally may have an ending:
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Rio/0,,MUL1178888-5606,00-JUSTICA+DETERMINA+QUE+MENINO+SEAN+GOLDMAN+VOLTE+PARA+OS+EUA.html
Federal court mandated that Sean should go home soon. Since this is brazil, there are obviously still options to fight this
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Replies:
Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 10:52
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He is supposed to be returned by tomorrow afternoon... This morning's news said the PF had custody of him pending transfer to the consulate for his father's pickup.
Hope like hell this is finally the end to this and they can be together...
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
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Posted By: 3casas
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 11:13
we were pleasantly surprised to see this last night amongst all the bad news. I was telling the story to my husband, who hadn't heard it, and it sounded like a novela, it was so farcical. What a nightmare for the parent.
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 11:27
The returning for now is not returning imediately to the us. First 2 weeks daytime with dad and at night with the brazilian family, then living with dad and 4 hours a day visits of the br relatives, but it's definately a step foreward.
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: jacktokyo
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 02:32
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Sadly this David vs Goliath battle is far from over. Latest news is the step-dad's family has managed to get the Supreme Court to suspend the Federal Court's ruling and Sean is to stay in Brazil. Very sad.
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Posted By: Bahiana77
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 12:01
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What was the part about the political party that applied to invalidate the Hague accord (or something) which is what is holding things up now?
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Posted By: jacktokyo
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 19:47
From what I read today in various papers, it was the Partido Progressista party that petitioned the Supreme Court for the injunction based on Arguicao de Descumprimento de Fundamental (ADPF), and apparently only a political party or association can do this. Meanwhile the stepdad's lawyers were trying to get a suspension with the Federal court but the Supreme Court ruled first. This injunction is irreversible.
PP argued in their petition, which Supreme Court member Marco Mello (who apparently has a history of making controversial, headline-grabbing rulings) granted, that the Federal Court's decision to return Sean to his biological father violated the child's fundamental rights granted by the federal constitution, among them the obligation to protect the family and the child, and that the court prioritized the Hague Convention over the rights of the child, or something like that. That's at least how I undertood it with my imperfect understanding of portuguese and the Brazilian judicial system.
What about the right for the boy to be raised by his father though? What precedent is this going to set now here in Brazil? Every time a court rules in favor or returning an abducted child a political party will jump in and get it overturned? All very surreal. What happened to Lula's "We have an independant judiciary, so leave me alone.."
Gotta feel for the poor dad who flew out here yesterday with the hope and expectation this 5 year nightmare was finally over only to be kicked in the teeth again.
Anyways, supposingly the Supreme Court will give a final ruling in around 15 days. Yeah right.
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 21:35
If this boy was living in a favela or in some rural area, he would have been returned years ago. Money makes the difference.
This might well drag on until he's 18...
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 16:22
Found this:
Supremo julga caso Sean na próxima semana
O Plenário do Supremo Tribunal Federal deve decidir na quarta-feira (10/6) se o menino Sean Goldman fica com o pai norteamericano, David Goldman, ou com o padrasto no Brasil, o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva. A informação foi dada pelo relator da Arguição de Descumprimento de Preceito Fundalmenta sobre o assunto, ministro Marco Aurélio. “Possivelmente na próxima quarta (10/6) o processo estará liberado para confirmação ou não do colegiado”, disse.
Na noite dessa terça (2/2), o ministro concedeu liminar para impedir que o garoto fosse entregue ao consulado dos Estados Unidos e retornasse ao país. A decisão de Marco Aurélio se deu na análise de pedido de liminar na ADPF 172 ajuizada pelo Partido Progressista (PP).
Marco Aurélio reconheceu que a sua decisão de suspender a entrega do menino ao pai é “um ato precário e efêmero”, tomado apenas para evitar que a família materna tivesse de entregá-lo imediatamente ao consulado americano no Rio de Janeiro. “Nada revela de forma inafastável que eu votaria atendendo o pedido inicial, mantendo Sean no Brasil”, ressaltou.
Ele explicou que a ADPF — um tipo processual geralmente usado para questionamento de leis — também pode questionar casos concretos, como o da guarda do menino Sean. “A premissa [da ADPF] é um ato do poder público que implique menosprezo a um direito fundamental”, explicou o ministro. A ADPF foi ajuizada pelo presidente do Partido Progressista, senador Francisco Dornelles, sob o argumento de que está sendo deixada em plano secundário a dignidade da criança que, segundo ele, manifesta o desejo de ficar no Brasil com a família materna.
Convenção de Haia O Partido Progressista argumentou que o governo brasileiro está privilegiando a Convenção de Haia, ao invés de defender os direitos e preceitos fundamentais do menor brasileiro de nove anos previstos na Constituição. A convenção, da qual o Brasil é signatário, trata do sequestro internacional de menores.
O ministro Marco Aurélio disse que caberá ao Supremo a última palavra sobre o caso. Para ele, a Constituição Federal está acima da própria Convenção de Haia — que trata da resolução pacífica de controvérsias internacionais, como a proteção de crianças e a adoção internacional.
“A própria Convenção de Haia aponta que a autoridade central do país requerido pode recusar a entrega se contar com a manifestação de vontade da criança, que até os 16 anos está protegida pela Convenção”, lembrou Marco Aurélio, que descarta a hipótese de ter havido um sequestro. “A mãe veio autorizada, com a concordância do pai. O que não houve foi o retorno”, interpretou o ministro.
Ele lembrou um precedente da 2ª Turma do Supremo que, em situação semelhante, decidiu-se que a guarda seria da mãe. No caso citado por ele, a genitora era viva e, embora a mãe de Sean tenha morrido, não se poderia desconsiderar o fato de os avós maternos estarem vivos.
Para o ministro, o parentesco sanguíneo da mãe e de seus ascendentes tem um peso maior que a própria relação do menino com o padrasto. Além disso, já se passaram cinco anos desde que a criança foi trazida ao Brasil, o que tornaria mais estreitos os laços com a família materna. “Eu creio que cinco anos foram suficientes para se ter algumas raízes”, disse.
Questionado sobre a preferência entre o pai biológico e os avós maternos perante a lei brasileira, o ministro relator da ADPF afirmou que o importante, para ele, é a liberdade de escolha. “E a liberdade está na vontade da criança.”
Marco Aurélio negou que autoridades dos Estados Unidos estejam pressionando para que a decisão do Supremo sobre o caso seja rápida. “A pressão é da nossa própria consciência, porque hoje, pela Constituição Federal, pedagogicamente o processo deve estar solucionado em um prazo razoável”, concluiu. Clique aqui para ler a ADPF 172.
Histórico Sean nasceu nos Estados Unidos e morou naquele país até 2004, quando, aos quatro anos, foi trazido ao Brasil pela mãe, Bruna Bianchi. No Brasil, Bruna pediu o divórcio e casou-se novamente com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva. No ano passado, ela morreu de complicações no parto da segunda filha. Lins e Silva, então, passou a ser o tutor de Sean e a travar na Justiça, justamente com a família de Bruna, uma disputa pela guarda do menino. O caso começou na Justiça estadual do Rio e depois passou para a competência federal.
Com a morte de Bruna, David Goldman intensificou uma campanha para tentar levar o filho de volta para os Estados Unidos. Goldman diz que o Brasil viola uma convenção internacional ao negar seu direito à guarda do filho. Já a família brasileira do garoto diz que, por “razões socioafetivas”, ele deve permanecer no país.
Na segunda-feira (1/6), a 16ª Vara Federal do Rio de Janeiro concedeu a guarda de Sean ao seu pai biológico. A determinação era de que Sean voltasse aos Estados Unidos de forma imediata e o juiz fixou um prazo de 48 horas para que ele fosse apresentado ao Consulado dos Estados Unidos. Antes das 48 horas, contudo, o ministro Marco Aurélio concedeu a liminar para manter o menino no Brasil. Com informações da Assessoria de Imprensa do Supremo Tribunal Federal.
http://www.conjur.com.br/2009-jun-03/supremo-julga-guarda-sean-goldman-proxima-semana-leia-adpf
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: jacktokyo
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 19:11
Originally posted by sven
Found this:
Marco Aurélio, que descarta a hipótese de ter havido um sequestro. “A mãe veio autorizada, com a concordância do pai. O que não houve foi o retorno”, interpretou o ministro.
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And that is precisely what defines it as a sequestro/abduction. How a supreme court justice can say this is beyond me. Obviously the Lins e Silva influence reaches further than many had thought. Thankfully this tool is not the only one deciding next week the fate of this poor kid. There are 11 of them. I would think it would be an outrage if they ruled in favour of Lins e Silva but I guess for the Brazilian old-hands and Brazilians for that matter it would just be a case of same ol' same ol'...
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 20:58
I don't have the link but I read where a Congressman in the States is threatening to have some sort of sanctions agaisnt Brazil if this isn't dealt with soon.
Unfortunately some people look at this as a Brazil vs USA issue rather than about a small boy.
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:33
Originally posted by jacktokyo
And that is precisely what defines it as a sequestro/abduction.
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Actually the convention calls it "illegal retention" and differenciates it from illegal abduction. Illegal retention is when the child was removed legally but retained illegal. In this case the child was removed legally, but retained illegally.
Originally posted by jacktokyo
How a supreme court justice can say this is beyond me. There are 11 of them.
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The problem with the supreme court is that they are not courts in the sense of the US or dutch Supreme Courts. The Brazilian Supreme Courts are political organs judges are appointed by the president, but not for life, at most for the period the President is in office. They aren't even judges, they are called ministers and although they have a legal background, mostly they do not have a judicial background.
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: jacktokyo
Date Posted: 05 June 2009 at 13:46
Originally posted by sven
Originally posted by jacktokyo
And that is precisely what defines it as a sequestro/abduction.
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Actually the convention calls it "illegal retention" and differenciates it from illegal abduction. Illegal retention is when the child was removed legally but retained illegal. In this case the child was removed legally, but retained illegally.
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The Supreme Court minister/justice is saying that he discards the hypothesis there was an abduction, (he has been pretty busy plugging the case for the boy to stay here), but if you look at the explanatory notes on the Hague Convention from the Hague site they are one and the same. They are in the same category: file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - Firstly, we are confronted
in each case with the removal from its habitual environment of a child whose
custody had been entrusted to and lawfully exercised by a natural or legal
person. Naturally, a refusal to restore a child to its own environment after a
stay abroad to which the person exercising the right of custody had consented
must be put in the same category. In both cased the outcome is in fact the
same: the child is taken out of the family and social environment in which its
life has developed… file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - Offprint from the Acts and Documents
of the Fourteenth Session (1980), tome III, Child
abduction
file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - http://hcch.e-vision.nl/index_en.php?act=publications.details&pid=2779 - - http://hcch.e-vision.nl/index_en.php?act=publications.details&pid=2779 - -
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 05 June 2009 at 14:04
Originally posted by jacktokyo
Originally posted by sven
Originally posted by jacktokyo
And that is precisely what defines it as a sequestro/abduction.
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Actually the convention calls it "illegal retention" and differenciates it from illegal abduction. Illegal retention is when the child was removed legally but retained illegal. In this case the child was removed legally, but retained illegally.
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The Supreme Court minister/justice is saying that he discards the hypothesis there was an abduction, (he has been pretty busy plugging the case for the boy to stay here), but if you look at the explanatory notes on the Hague Convention from the Hague site they are one and the same. They are in the same category: file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - Firstly, we are confronted
in each case with the removal from its habitual environment of a child whose
custody had been entrusted to and lawfully exercised by a natural or legal
person. Naturally, a refusal to restore a child to its own environment after a
stay abroad to which the person exercising the right of custody had consented
must be put in the same category. In both cased the outcome is in fact the
same: the child is taken out of the family and social environment in which its
life has developed… file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - Offprint from the Acts and Documents
of the Fourteenth Session (1980), tome III, Child
abduction
file:///C:%5CUsers%5Cgareth%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - http://hcch.e-vision.nl/index_en.php?act=publications.details&pid=2779 - - |
Yes yes, of course, but as I said, the convention differentiates between the two:
The objects of the present Convention are – a) to secure the prompt return of children wrongfully removed to or retained in any Contracting State;
That they are treated the same is obvious.
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: jacktokyo
Date Posted: 05 June 2009 at 14:54
ok. So I will qualify what I originally said:
Originally posted by jacktokyo
And that is precisely what defines it as a sequestro/abduction case.
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 13:07
The Supreme Court is going to rule today on the case.
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
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Posted By: 3casas
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 13:24
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i was disgusted to see the TV images on this story were either weird gringo dad dancing or large crowds with brazilian flags and signs. thoroughly disgusting.
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 17:58
Good, at least the PP lost in the STF, now it's (again) waiting on the final decision of the 2nd circuit federal court.
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Mundo/0,,MUL1190209-5602,00-STF+ARQUIVA+PROCESSO+SOBRE+SEAN+MAS+LIMINAR+QUE+O+MANTEM+NO+PAIS+AINDA+VALE.html
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: jacktokyo
Date Posted: 17 June 2009 at 02:09
Brazil Helps Kidnap American Children
By http://online.wsj.com/search/search_center.html?KEYWORDS=BERNARD+ARONSON&ARTICLESEARCHQUERY_PARSER=bylineAND - BERNARD ARONSON
Nations
distinguish themselves by gestures large and small. In the coming
weeks, Brazil will define itself to the United States and to the wider
international community by how it treats a 9-year-old boy.
Sean Goldman was born and raised in Red Bank, N.J., to an American
father, David Goldman, and his Brazilian-born wife. Five years ago this
week, Sean was taken by his mother to Brazil on what was supposed to be
a two-week vacation. He never returned.
What should have happened next is clear, since Brazil is a signatory
to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child
Abduction. Under the treaty, one parent cannot flee the legal
jurisdiction where the child resides -- "his habitual residence" -- to
shop for a more favorable court venue in another country to contest for
custody. Within six weeks of Sean's abduction, Brazil was obligated
under the treaty to return him to the U.S., where custody issues could
have been resolved legally.
The U.S., as the treaty requires, has regularly returned abducted
Brazilian children. But Brazil has never returned any of the 66
American children abducted from the U.S. to Brazil. The U.S. State
Department has repeatedly cited Brazil for violating its treaty
obligations. In Latin America, only Honduras boasts a worse record.
More than 1,600 American children are caught in similar circumstances
world-wide.
In the five years since Sean's abduction, his mother obtained a
Brazilian divorce and remarried into a powerful local family of
prominent lawyers. Though she died tragically in childbirth one year
ago, her Brazilian family has used its connections to obstruct Sean's
return to his biological father. The case is so egregious that both
President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton raised
Sean Goldman's plight with their Brazilian counterparts when they met
for the first time earlier this year.
A glimmer of hope emerged last month when a Brazilian federal judge
ordered Sean's immediate return to his father, who had flown to Rio de
Janeiro for the ruling. But the return order was stayed by a higher
federal court judge, and the case remains mired in the country's
seemingly endless judicial appeals process.
Resolutions calling on Brazil to return Sean at once passed both the
House and Senate unanimously earlier this year. Frustrated by the
continued delay, members of Congress have now introduced legislation to
strip Brazil and other flagrant violators of the Hague Convention of
their privileges under the Generalized System of Preferences, which
reduces tariffs on exports from developing countries to the U.S.
To avert the coming train wreck in U.S.-Brazil relations, Brazil
must demonstrate that it is a nation that honors its treaty obligations
-- not a country that protects those who abduct American children. The
choice it makes will resonate far beyond the Goldman family or the
families of the other 65 abducted American children in Brazil.
As the fifth most populous country in the world, Brazil has emerged
in recent years as an increasingly respected global leader in
economics, energy, peace-keeping and arms control. Brazil is a member
of the G-20, a potential host of the 2016 Olympics, and a likely
candidate for an enlarged U.N. Security Council. But Brazil cannot
expect to enjoy the privileges of international leadership -- or U.S.
support for these aspirations -- if it continues to ignore its Hague
Convention responsibilities and lawful claims of American families
whose children have been abducted.
It's long past time to bring Sean Goldman home.
Mr. Aronson served as assistant secretary of state for Inter-American Affairs from 1989-93.
From today's Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124520472351021923.html - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124520472351021923.html
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Posted By: eldman
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 07:54
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The saga continues:
Brazilian judge rules U.S. dad can visit son -- in Brazil
- Story Highlights
- Brazilian court: David Goldman can have unsupervised visits with son, but in Brazil
- Goldman's former wife left for Brazil with son, Sean; she later asked for divorce
- Sean's mom died in childbirth, leaving him with stepfather
By Adam Reiss CNN
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A Brazilian federal judge has issued a ruling making it possible for David Goldman to have more access to his son Sean in the ongoing custody battle over the boy, Goldman's attorney said Friday.
The Brazilian court said Thursday it will allow Goldman to visit with his son unsupervised every week from Monday morning through Saturday evening. The problem is he must do it on Brazilian soil, not in New Jersey where he lives.
Patricia Apy, Goldman's attorney, predicted Sean's stepfather will file an appeal. In the meantime, she said, David Goldman will likely take advantage of the ruling and visit Sean soon, "despite his severe reluctance to engage in such behavior, given the observations of the Goldman family's behavior toward Sean in response to his visits."
The boy's Brazilian family has already threatened to take the matter back to the Brazilian Supreme Court, which has ruled it does not have jurisdiction.
This comes several days after reports that Sean's stepfather hired a private psychiatrist to question Sean about whether he wants to stay in http://topics.cnn.com/topics/brazil - Brazil or return home to New Jersey.
According to a court transcript, Sean told a psychologist he wants to stay with his stepfamily in Brazil rather than return to live in the United States with his biological father.
In the transcript released Wednesday by the Brazilian family's lawyers, Sean Goldman told the psychologist that if he is sent back to New Jersey to be with http://topics.cnn.com/topics/david_goldman - David Goldman , he will "break down totally."
Last week, Brazil's highest court said it does not have jurisdiction over who should have custody of the U.S.-born 9-year-old boy -- his Brazilian stepfather or his father in the United States.
The incident began in June 2004, when Goldman's then-wife, Bruna Bianchi Carneiro Ribeiro, took Sean from the family's New Jersey home for what was to have been a two-week vacation in her native Brazil.
But instead of returning, she and the boy stayed in Brazil, where she divorced Goldman and married a Brazilian lawyer. She died there in September 2008 giving birth to a daughter. In Rio, Sean attends a private school and lives in a sprawling home with his half-sister and his stepfather.
In March, Helvecio Ribeiro, a spokesman for the boy's Brazilian relatives, said the stepfather did not dispute the father's biological rights, but said other matters needed to be weighed.
"The fact of the matter is that, in order to be a parent, you have to be more than a DNA donor," Ribeiro said. "Fatherhood is not about making home movies and taking pictures. It's about sacrifice; it's about providing support for your child; it's about being there even when you are not there."
He said Goldman had failed to do that, and accused him of having "paid not a dime of child support" and made allegations "all over the place about us not allowing him to visit the child that are completely untrue."
Goldman responded, "Can you take someone's child to another country and then expect the parent to support you in the abduction of the child?"
He said he had been making tireless efforts since his son was "abducted" to have him repatriated
------------- angeleno turned paulistano
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Posted By: 3casas
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 09:01
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Unbelievable. I just read this elsewhere. Each bit of news that comes out about this case is more ridiculous than the last.
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Posted By: bobbyitaparica
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 12:29
Originally posted by 3casas
Unbelievable. I just read this elsewhere. Each bit of news that comes out about this case is more ridiculous than the last.
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A fine example of the Brazilian judiciary.    
A nightmare wrapped in a nebulous enigma floating in a fog bank above the Bay of Guanabara...
------------- I came, I saw, Eu pulei Carnaval de Olinda. Nao consigo esquecer e assim minha vida mudou. A true Brazil Nut.
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Posted By: MiamiNice
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 16:49
I feel very sorry for this man and I hope he is soon able to take his child back to the United States. It just shows that Brazil is still a Banana Republic when it comes to issues of justice. This is also what happens when you marry a Brazilian whore with no morals.
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Posted By: bobbyitaparica
Date Posted: 21 June 2009 at 09:48
Originally posted by MiamiNice
I feel very sorry for this man and I hope he is soon able to take his child back to the United States. It just shows that Brazil is still a Banana Republic when it comes to issues of justice. This is also what happens when you marry a Brazilian whore with no morals.
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It appears the father was too trusting when he allowed his then wife to take the child to Brazil.
Very strange how the stepfather is fighting so hard for custody. He appears to have very deep pockets. Is the dead mother's family among the super rich as well?
------------- I came, I saw, Eu pulei Carnaval de Olinda. Nao consigo esquecer e assim minha vida mudou. A true Brazil Nut.
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Posted By: MiamiNice
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 01:28
I cannot imagine that dead whore comes from any privileged upbringing. Why then would she have to swindle these two dim witted husbands into giving her a very materialistic lifestyle. My heart breaks for that poor boy.
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 12:55
Originally posted by MiamiNice
I cannot imagine that dead whore comes from any privileged upbringing. Why then would she have to swindle these two dim witted husbands into giving her a very materialistic lifestyle. My heart breaks for that poor boy.
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Was that really necessary?
You know nothing about the mother at all other than she took the child to Brazil without permission, divorced, remarried and then dies. How that makes her a 'whore' puzzles me, nevermind how you come up that she 'swindled' anyone - dim-witted or not.
I don't like what's happened to the child either, but stick to FACTS please.
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 17 December 2009 at 17:53
And this never-ending farce continues....
From the front page of Terra:
"O advogado Ricardo Zamariola, que representa o americano David
Goldman na disputa pela guarda do menino Sean Goldman, 9 anos, disse
nesta quinta-feira que lamenta a determinação do Supremo Tribunal
Federal (STF) para que o garoto permaneça no Brasil até que seja ouvido
por um juiz de primeiro grau sobre sua vontade. Segundo ele, a defesa
vai recorrer da decisão. David Goldman chegou ao Brasil esta manhã.
"Lamento pela decisão", disse Zamariola ao Terra.
"Além disso, eu pedi para ter uma conversa com o ministro Marco Aurélio
antes de que ele tomasse uma decisão, mas a resposta que recebi era de
que ele não poderia me atender".
Na tarde desta quinta-feira, o ministro Marco Aurélio concedeu
uma liminar protocolada pela avó paterna do garoto para que o menino
fique com a família de sua mãe, no Rio de Janeiro, onde está desde
2004. "Vamos analisar qual é a melhor forma, mas certamente vamos
recorrer ao STF", disse o advogado.
O caso
O pai biológico de Sean, David Goldman, luta para ter a guarda do filho
desde a morte de sua ex-companheira, a brasileira Bruna Bianchi
Carneiro. A briga pela guarda comelou em 2004, quando Bruna deixou
Goldman para uma suposta viagem de férias de duas semanas com o filho
ao Brasil. Eles viviam na cidade de Titon Falls, Estado de New Jersey
(EUA). Ao desembarcar no País, contudo, Bruna telefonou ao marido
avisando que o casamento estava acabado e que não voltaria aos Estados
Unidos.
A partir disso, foi travada uma batalha judicial pela guarda do garoto,
na época com 4 anos. No Brasil, a Justiça reconheceu o divórcio pedido
por Bruna sem a concordância de Goldman. Diante das leis americanas,
contudo, eles permaneciam casados. Livre do compromisso com Goldman,
Bruna se casou novamente com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva, mas no
parto do segundo filho ela morreu.
Diante da ausência da mulher, David Goldman veio ao Brasil na tentativa
de levar o filho de volta aos Estados Unidos. Desde então, ele briga
pela guarda do garoto nos tribunais brasileiros, contra o padrasto de
Sean e seus avós maternos."
By the time this case comes to an end the child will be in his twenties. This just reflects how bad the justice system is here...
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Posted By: Bahiana77
Date Posted: 17 December 2009 at 18:12
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If it were me, I think by now I'd probably be trying to track down some well-skilled kidnappers to snatch the kid back, since anything else seems to be such a joke.
But I have Brazilian friends who automatically and still contend that David must have been a bad person/husband/father for the step-family to be going to such lengths.
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Posted By: cookiemonster
Date Posted: 18 December 2009 at 06:34
It was nice to see that the Federal Court upheld the ruling of the 1st instance court. Granted as soon as this latest ruling came out it was inevitable that the step-father would appeal it to the Supreme Court.
Now the basis of this new injunction is a tad bit on the strange side, considering the facts of the case. Sean hasn't been around his father in 5 years, he's grown up in a completely different culture, speaks a different language, goes to school, has friends, etc. Plus his current family, could possibly be filling his head with all sorts of slights against his father.
No court in the world recognizes the opinions of a child at this age, as to where they feel they would be better raised. Which is why the basis of this injunction is strange. Everyone knows what the kid is going to say. That aside, his mother still violated international law when she abducted Sean. So the child's opinion is moot when how he came to be in Brazil was the result of a crime.
What has never been made public to my knowledge, was her reasoning for doing what she did. If her husband was abusive, I can see what would prompt her to go to such extreme lengths to protect Sean. If abuse wasn't the reason, say she got homesick or perhaps she was tired of living in the US, then she should have gone about this in a better way. Shared custody or something along those lines.
David still has hope, if this latest turn of events goes the way I think it will, which is a ruling that Sean will remain in Brazil. He can then appeal to the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. We'll find out in February how this plays out.
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Posted By: MiamiNice
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 09:22
What an absolute crime that has been perpetrated by the Brazilian "justice" system. The entire judiciary should be arrested and deported to the U.S. to face kidnapping and child abuse charges. Along with that horrible woman's family - convict everyone one of these despicable Brazilian people.
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Posted By: rei do brasil
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 11:29
Originally posted by MiamiNice
The entire judiciary should be arrested and deported to the U.S. to face kidnapping and child abuse charges. Along with that horrible woman's family - convict everyone one of these despicable Brazilian people.
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Is this the child you are talking about?

Or are you talking about the treatement of the father? Is this photo of him at Brasil's Abu Graib?

Originally posted by MiamiNice
It just shows that Brazil is still a Banana Republic when it comes to issues of justice.
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The 'justice system' in the US is still yet to arrest Bush and his war cabinet for war crimes. They fabricated all the WMDs evidence against Saddam's regime and have killed now over 1 million Iraqis, 100,000s of children killed not to mention the millions of children's lives devestated, and their fathers and mothers. Obama has blocked efforts to indict Bush for torture prisons therfore making Obama accesory. Obama has also escalated the war in Afhganistan now having added more troops than even Bush added.

I think we need to keep this little episode of one family and the Brasil courts in perspective when you Americans start bashing brasil about our Justice system.
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 11:45
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Bush was an idiot, but there is no support to arrest a US president and have a war trial. Besides, US presidents, for the most part, have immunity and/or a sitting president would surely give them a pardon before the trial even started.
Its a damn hard pressed stretch to compare the stupidity of the Brazilian court system with the Goldman case, in not supporting international law, and the idiotic actions of the Bush administration, in any reasoning....
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
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Posted By: rei do brasil
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 11:49
The actions of Bush and the advisors around him were not 'idiotic'. They were war crimes and the war crimes continue unabated. In fact Obama intends to escalate them and has opened more secret torture prisons. The Pentagon is hiring out private mercinary companies to carry out terrorist attacks against middle-eastern countries, drones being used to assassinate everyone and anyone in the middle-east who comes from powerful families who won't bend over to American empire. Its horrific. How do the drone smart bombers assassinte these highly secured assets? They blow up wedding parties, for example - killing dozens of children....destroying/ending the power family.
So, the US Justice system? What justice system? Its more corrupt than Brasil's. That is a fact.
This case in Brasil is being blown out of proportion by soapy teletubby Americans and Braislians who love a good soap opera.
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 12:52
|
As a wise man told me long ago....you can't out ugly the ugly.
I don't know why I try to make sense of some things. 
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
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Posted By: delco
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 14:32
Originally posted by MovingSoon
As a wise man told me long ago....you can't out ugly the ugly.
I don't know why I try to make sense of some things.  |
Don't give up now MS, in a few pages time Rei do Brasil will probably have shown how the world is run by aliens from Alpha Centuari, who have taken on human form to fool us. Soon we will realise that nothing is as it seems and everything is the despicable fault of everybody he despises - I think I recognise his prose style!
Interesting that he knows about Obama's secret torture prisons. Clearly not that secret after all!
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Posted By: Paulistano USA
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 15:44
Yay!!! A NEW troll!
------------- Que país é esse? -Renato Russo
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Posted By: Bahiana77
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 16:38
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No, the same troll for the third (?) go-round. Try, try again, hmmm.....
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Posted By: agri2001
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 16:57
Originally posted by Paulistano USA
Yay!!! A NEW troll!
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I believe, if I am not mistaken, it`s the same person that (by his own admission) paid B$50.00 for a beer in Rio and if that wasn`t enough he went back for seconds.  
------------- Athiests are moral, they don't kill over religion.
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Posted By: rei do brasil
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 19:14
Originally posted by delco
Originally posted by MovingSoon
As a wise man told me long ago....you can't out ugly the ugly.
I don't know why I try to make sense of some things.  |
Don't give up now MS, in a few pages time Rei do Brasil will
probably have shown how the world is run by aliens from Alpha Centuari,
|
I am just stating facts.
THis case about one
child and one father does not justify Americans calling for the arrest
of Brasilians to be tried for humanitarian crimes in light of the
relativity (excuse the pun) of what the world has suffered today due to
LIES and CRIMINALS whom you harbour and even vote for to be your
Presidents.
I mean, you're ludicrous - Everyone already knows that.
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 19:37
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No, you aren't stating facts...you're an idiot...
I need a drink or a couple of aspirin 
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
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Posted By: rei do brasil
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 19:48
Originally posted by MovingSoon
No, you aren't stating facts...you're an idiot...
I need a drink or a couple of aspirin  |
What of the statements I have made above do you contest? I can provide you with all the evidence from mainstream media and universities to show you they are in fact true.
You see, what you believe is true in these days is a simplified childlike brain of acceptance. Its simple for you you know? You think that you just need to turn on the Idiot Box and there it is more or less the Twoof. Especially the War you are in, or think you are in. But you dont get any of it do you? The Elite of your little country can not afford to win. Did you hear me? They can not afford to win. So, the supply the 'insurgency' to help them kill you grunts - which grunts is pretty much almost all Americans today but for about 1% of them.
I dont think I can explain to a person like you what you are being bucked with. And I dont care anymore because you are gone.
The effort to crash the middle east and all their families was in conjunct with the plan to crash the US and all their famlies. Its called war by proxy - a very difficult concept for a naive boy. You get your enemies to destroy each other.
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 20:27
I had a drink with an aspirin and it didn't help...he didn't go away....
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
|
Posted By: rei do brasil
Date Posted: 19 December 2009 at 20:36
Originally posted by MovingSoon
I had a drink with an aspirin and it didn't help...he didn't go away.... |
Of course I agree the boy should be given back to his father, especially after the tragic loss of his mother.
But what you are missing is that there are Americans all over the net calling for the Brasilian judiciary and the family to be brought up for humanitarian crimes. And that is where the buck stops buddy, you Americans are just ludicrous.
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Posted By: delco
Date Posted: 20 December 2009 at 10:18
| Originally posted by rei do brasil
But what you are missing is that there are Americans all over the net calling for the Brasilian judiciary and the family to be brought up for humanitarian crimes.
[/QUOTE
So what? When did anything that a few hundred nutcases say about anything make any difference whatsoever to anything?
Edit: |
So what? When did anything that a few hundred nutcases say about anything make any difference whatsoever to anything?
Edit: Not sure why the formatting went wrong on this post, maybe an irrational theory will solve the mystery!
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Posted By: rei do brasil
Date Posted: 20 December 2009 at 17:29
Why are you implying I have an irrational theory? I am only stating facts.
As I have said, I fully support the idea that the son should be returned to his father ESPECIALLY given that she, the boy's mother, unfortunately died. I can't imagine what its like to be that boy and, given the effort his father has made to get him back, we surely have a blessed child to finally rest in those arms of his father.
But Americans have no moral high-ground on this matter. That's it. And too many working-class Americans are calling on this imaginary moral high-ground which they don't have - and that is a fact.
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Posted By: delco
Date Posted: 20 December 2009 at 17:36
I didn't say you had an irrational theory what I said was
'So what? When did anything that a few hundred nutcases say about anything make any difference whatsoever to anything?'
And you didn't answer that!
Edit:
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Posted By: GreatBallsoFire
Date Posted: 20 December 2009 at 18:10
Originally posted by rei do brasil
Why are you implying I have an irrational theory? I am only stating facts.
As I have said, I fully support the idea that the son should be returned to his father ESPECIALLY given that she, the boy's mother, unfortunately died. I can't imagine what its like to be that boy and, given the effort his father has made to get him back, we surely have a blessed child to finally rest in those arms of his father.
But Americans have no moral high-ground on this matter. That's it. And too many working-class Americans are calling on this imaginary moral high-ground which they don't have - and that is a fact.
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Please get off the high horse. Brazil is one of the most corrupt countries in the world period.
A country where a small group of families lives like kings and the vast majority live like slaves. Public education, health care, roads, basic sanitation, rail, and the police are in shambles. Please don't blame the Portuguese.
Eduardo Beuno blames them in his history of Brazil. A bunch of quick buck artists who brought in seven to eight times the amount of slaves from Africa than the number that went to the States. Most died in about 18 months of labor yet quite a few survived.
So you have a totally screwed up judiciary that everybody concedes is corrupt. How about that judge Nicolaou fellow in SP? He stole hundreds of millions of reais and gets "house arrest." A drunk stole a bottle of pinga from a supermarket and rots for a year in jail without trial. Welcome to Brazil.
Unlikely the child will ever return to the States to be with his father.
------------- Simia quam similis, turpissimus bestia nobis. Oi amigo, pode trazer a saideira?
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Posted By: Bahiana77
Date Posted: 20 December 2009 at 19:41
Originally posted by GreatBallsoFire
Unlikely the child will ever return to the States to be with his father.
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Didn't you mention on some thread here that you thought yourself an optimist?
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Posted By: Bahiana77
Date Posted: 20 December 2009 at 19:52
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Interesting idea from another forum.....Write email to Lula with your opinion.
pr@planalto.gov.br
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Posted By: GreatBallsoFire
Date Posted: 20 December 2009 at 21:21
Originally posted by Bahiana77
Originally posted by GreatBallsoFire
Unlikely the child will ever return to the States to be with his father.
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Didn't you mention on some thread here that you thought yourself an optimist?
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Yes, I believe that Itaparica can get better as a place to live, but I think that the judiciary branch in Brazil is rotten to the core and I see no chance for improvement in our lifetimes.
------------- Simia quam similis, turpissimus bestia nobis. Oi amigo, pode trazer a saideira?
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 21 December 2009 at 10:35
Not everyone in the Judiciary is corrupt.
The majority are hardworking people. They have to deal with the ever changing whims of the politicos who change laws at the drop of a hat, and the legal profession that is very adept at trying to bend the rules in their client's favor.
Is there corruption there? Of course there is. Should the system be overhauled? Of course it should. Does class or connections make a difference here? Yes, unfortunately they often do.
But I think also that too many people judge the Brazilian system by the standards and rules found in the States. This isn't the USA. The legal system, has some fundamental differences in how it was set up, and it suffers from the years of neglect and interference since before the military dictatorship to the present date.
To claim that the entire thing is rotten just because a few parts are is wrong.
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 22 December 2009 at 20:49
|
The head Supreme Court Justice ruled tonight that the son should be with his natural father and returned to the US.
The only appeal that can be made now is to the full Supreme Court, as I understand it, to try to get them to overturn the head guy...which isn't likely to happen.
Hope he gets home soon....
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 23 December 2009 at 08:30
Agree, unlikely. He made all the right arguments.
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 23 December 2009 at 08:59

Nicely done by Gilmar Mendes. I've just read all 28! pages of the judgement.
http://s.conjur.com.br/dl/liminar-gilmar-mendes-autoriza-entrega.pdf
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: jacktokyo
Date Posted: 24 December 2009 at 18:53
Looks like Sean is finally on the plane.
As they say in Japan: Banzai! Banzai! Banzai!
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Posted By: GreatBallsoFire
Date Posted: 25 December 2009 at 01:22
Hey,
Only five years to get back the child. (And the threat of a trade war with words between Presidents.)
This gives you an idea about the judiciary in Brazil.
The Brazilian grandmother continues to state that "it is a crime to send the child back to the USA."
Moral of story. Be very careful about allowing a Brazilian spouse to take your children to Brazil.
------------- Simia quam similis, turpissimus bestia nobis. Oi amigo, pode trazer a saideira?
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Posted By: Guinness
Date Posted: 25 December 2009 at 01:48
|
I was talking about this with my bird today. I think that puta is an absolute disgrace and I am very happy she died "giving light" to a new child. She brings misery to everyone she touches.
My bird said, watch out because if you speak ill of the dead she'll haunt you while you sleep.
I hope she does cos i'd like to tell her to lower her head in shame and wait until the morning when I could give her a proper b*ll*cking.
Shes a snake and her husband should know better as well being a lawyer.
-------------
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 26 December 2009 at 09:01
That's a really disgusting thing to say, and you posted it on Christmas Day no less...
To make the statement that you take delight in someone dying in childbirth is appalling.
Yes, how she went about this was wrong, and how the family acted after her death was wrong, but your comments aren't called for.
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Posted By: Guinness
Date Posted: 26 December 2009 at 21:04
Nice horse hows it feel up there
-------------
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 27 December 2009 at 20:12
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How does it feel down there in the gutter?
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Posted By: 3casas
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 13:34
can't condone what the woman did but i think the real snake in the grass is the padrasto. the kid's been fed a lot of BS about how bad the US is and if he doesn't come out of this emotionally fried it will be a miracle. bad enough to lose your mother but to become a political football-- bad bad bad.
i saw it on the news the other day and can't believe the kid is actually finally back in the US.
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 14:27
All fair and square, what the mother did was wrong. Then the Brazilian courts (lack of knowledge of International Law) did the wrong thing. The American Dad's (initial)lawyer didn't improve things by having his client not file motions during several court cases.
This was one huge clusterf**k.
Brazil actually signed this treaty to get brazilian kids that where kidnapped back from abroad, but are/where totally unprepared for the other way around.
I hope Gilmar Mendes sentence makes some judges see the light.
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 14:43
|
Sean and David have been in Orlando since they got back to the US. They he has relatives there and spent a lot of time at Disney...that is where they went before he was kidnapped.
David was interviewed on NBC Monday. Said Sean is adapting. Can't wait to see snow in Jersey, worried about having a warm coat, hat, etc. Has't called him dad yet, but David knows it takes time and is just thankful for his Christmas miracle.
Whent the Grandmother said she wanted to come on the plane, loved it that the US said no to a visa and Brazil said they weren't involved. She asked to come and see hm in the US, and David said she could, "I won't keep him from you the way you kept him from me. You will see that I'm a good dad." Guy has a lot of class....
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 15:17
Originally posted by MovingSoon
Guy has a lot of class.... |
Too bad granny doesn't she will try to "get custody" any way she can through Br courts.
What I found very strange is that the stephfather is supposed to have custody, but that the child (and the other child) live(d) with the maternal grandparents 
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: Guinness
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 17:58
Originally posted by sven
Originally posted by MovingSoon
Guy has a lot of class.... |
Too bad granny doesn't she will try to "get custody" any way she can through Br courts.
What I found very strange is that the stephfather is supposed to have custody, but that the child (and the other child) live(d) with the maternal grandparents 
|
Id love to show my girlfriend some proof of this statement. Can you show me where you got this information pweez!
-------------
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 19:04
|
Guinness...not sure of exactly shich statement you are talking about, but David's latest interview was Monday on the Today Show (NBC). They have been following the case the best and even supposedly charted the plane that took them back to the US...
I suppose the interview is somewhere on the net.
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
|
Posted By: Guinness
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 22:16
Originally posted by MovingSoon
Guinness...not sure of exactly shich statement you are talking about, but David's latest interview was Monday on the Today Show (NBC). They have been following the case the best and even supposedly charted the plane that took them back to the US...
I suppose the interview is somewhere on the net. |
Id like some sort of reliable source preferably in portuguese which states that he lived with his grandparents not his step father
-------------
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 23:12
|
I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that they all lived together. Part of the grandmother's statements included that 'in Brazil, grandmothers raise the children in case the mother isn't around' so she figured she had first chance at raising him. I think that part was in some court documents....i paraphrased it, but the same idea.
I'm just not sure about the living together though... I'll do some checking...
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
|
Posted By: Guinness
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 05:33
Im not looking forward to the smear campaign against the biological father from the legal representatives of the grandparents...
-------------
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 08:34
Originally posted by Guinness
Originally posted by sven
Originally posted by MovingSoon
Guy has a lot of class.... |
Too bad granny doesn't she will try to "get custody" any way she can through Br courts.
What I found very strange is that the stephfather is supposed to have custody, but that the child (and the other child) live(d) with the maternal grandparents 
|
Id love to show my girlfriend some proof of this statement. Can you show me where you got this information pweez! |
Was in yesterdays newspaper. O Dia
Found it again here:
http://home.dgabc.com.br/default.asp?pt=secao&pg=detalhe&c=5&id=5785675&titulo=Familia+brasileira+decide+manter+disputa+por+Sean+Goldman
Tostes informou que vai entrar no STJ (Superior Tribunal de Justiça) recorrendo da http://home.dgabc.com.br/default.asp?pt=secao&pg=detalhe&c=5&id=5785675&titulo=Familia+brasileira+decide+manter+disputa+por+Sean+Goldman# - decisão
do TRF-2 (Tribunal Regional Federal da 2ª Região) que determinou a
entrega de Sean ao pai. "Caso os tribunais superiores venham a
modificar a decisão do TRF-2, a família confia em que serão tomadas
pelas autoridades http://home.dgabc.com.br/default.asp?pt=secao&pg=detalhe&c=5&id=5785675&titulo=Familia+brasileira+decide+manter+disputa+por+Sean+Goldman# - brasileiras todas as medidas para que haja o retorno imediato de Sean ao Brasil", diz a nota.
------------- We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde
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Posted By: Paulistano USA
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 08:56
Is it just me or does anybody else think that the step father looks like the stereotypical kid-toucher? Like the kind that plays the role in after school specials telling kids not to accept candy from that kind of guy.
Big ups to Guiness for saying what I feel. Good riddance to the puta. The world doesn't need anymore kidnappers. There are enough in this banana republic.
------------- Que país é esse? -Renato Russo
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Posted By: bobnbrazil2
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 10:06
Christ you people really sicken me sometimes. And don't pull out the tiresome "high horses' crap whenever someone calls you out on posting some small minded crap. "Good riddance to the puta"? That "puta" was also a mother. Some of you around here have the morals of a six year old.
There used to be adults at this forum who discussed things with open minds, lately it's been taken over by a bunch of opinionated mono-browed alpha types who don't do much more than post how much they hate this country and everything that goes on here. Sort of a mutual support forums for sour losers.
Enjoy it, I'm joining the others who've grown tired of it and left.
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Posted By: MovingSoon
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 10:07
|
News this morning confirms that the Brazilian family is still going to pursue avenues to get Sean back....
Yeah, good luck with that!!
------------- Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave with a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways at a high rate of speed, drink in one hand, totally worn out shouting, "Whoa, what a ride"!
|
Posted By: delco
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 10:37
Originally posted by bobnbrazil2
Christ you people really sicken me sometimes. And don't pull out the tiresome "high horses' crap whenever someone calls you out on posting some small minded crap. "Good riddance to the puta"? That "puta" was also a mother. Some of you around here have the morals of a six year old.
There used to be adults at this forum who discussed things with open minds, lately it's been taken over by a bunch of opinionated mono-browed alpha types who don't do much more than post how much they hate this country and everything that goes on here. Sort of a mutual support forums for sour losers.
Enjoy it, I'm joining the others who've grown tired of it and left.
|
Think again Bob, if all the voices of reason left all the talking to the narrow minded, where would we all be?
I think it highly unreasonable to call Sean's mother a kidnapper or a puta. She left her husband and moved back to her home country with her child. Whether she did it the right way or not, it is what mothers tend to want to do, that isn't really the same as kidnapping and certainly doesn't make her a whore. It should be assumed that her parents love their grandchild and fairly or unfairly wanted him to stay with them. It is, of course, the right thing that Sean is now with his father, but to indulge in such twisted vitriol aginst people you don't even know, one of whom is now dead, is somewhat warped.
To call Brazil a banana republic is a bit rich coming from someone from a country where there are 90,000 homeless people in the Greater Los Angeles area alone.
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Posted By: peter caplan
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 12:39
Please stick around, bobnbrazil2 - I'm sure that there are lots of
folks on the forum (besides me) that enjoy reading what you have to
say. I'm relieved to see that there are still people like you who have
the patience to try to maintain a bit of decency and good sense on the
forum. It's not a pleasant task, and it can't always be done with a
light touch.
And, while I have the pulpit, let me complain about the obsessed -
that bunch that drone on about the same things in the same way, day
after day. Or, that fill up pages with vendettas and exchanges of
insults. One thing that may need repeating is simply that there are thousands of people out there
from many different countries and backgrounds, all who have their own
points of view and their own problems. Some of them have already
written that they feel intimidated by the mutual aggression and casual badmouthing they see
posted here. Let's clear the air a bit so we can learn more from them
and about them, ok?
------------- Pedro - Washington/São Paulo
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Posted By: Guinness
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 13:10
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I barely post on here Bob et al I do have a life. I am just sincerely passionate about this topic hence why I have, perhaps unwelcomely reappeared.
Maybe the "lady" is not a kidnapper or a whore but she is at very least a coward and a bigamist who has caused suffering and distress to almost everyone, who she claims to love. This pain has been sustained for the last 4 years with Mr Goldman and will be ongoing well into the future with the people who she moved onto after she callously and casually destroyed the life of her ex husband. Its funny how misery can be caused when a person decides not to face up to the responsibilities of their decisions.
I very much doubt anybody will bother reading this post due to the length but I will be watching with great interest and hoping that the Goldmans can piece together their lives after the actions of this irresponsible woman.
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Posted By: delco
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 16:28
Originally posted by Guinness
I barely post on here Bob et al I do have a life. I am just sincerely passionate about this topic hence why I have, perhaps unwelcomely reappeared.
Maybe the "lady" is not a kidnapper or a whore but she is at very least a coward and a bigamist who has caused suffering and distress to almost everyone, who she claims to love. This pain has been sustained for the last 4 years with Mr Goldman and will be ongoing well into the future with the people who she moved onto after she callously and casually destroyed the life of her ex husband. Its funny how misery can be caused when a person decides not to face up to the responsibilities of their decisions.
I very much doubt anybody will bother reading this post due to the length but I will be watching with great interest and hoping that the Goldmans can piece together their lives after the actions of this irresponsible woman. |
Unfortunately, Guinness, marriage breakdowns can often cause similar misery for people who live in the same town, let alone people who end up living in different countries at different ends of two huge continents. I hope the morality you expect of others is something you will always live by yourself, because, of course, these things are usually much easier said than done.
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Posted By: Guinness
Date Posted: 30 December 2009 at 16:40
Originally posted by delco
Originally posted by Guinness
I barely post on here Bob et al I do have a life. I am just sincerely passionate about this topic hence why I have, perhaps unwelcomely reappeared.
Maybe the "lady" is not a kidnapper or a whore but she is at very least a coward and a bigamist who has caused suffering and distress to almost everyone, who she claims to love. This pain has been sustained for the last 4 years with Mr Goldman and will be ongoing well into the future with the people who she moved onto after she callously and casually destroyed the life of her ex husband. Its funny how misery can be caused when a person decides not to face up to the responsibilities of their decisions.
I very much doubt anybody will bother reading this post due to the length but I will be watching with great interest and hoping that the Goldmans can piece together their lives after the actions of this irresponsible woman. |
Unfortunately, Guinness, marriage breakdowns can often cause similar misery for people who live in the same town, let alone people who end up living in different countries at different ends of two huge continents. I hope the morality you expect of others is something you will always live by yourself, because, of course, these things are usually much easier said than done. |
You're absolutely right, if me and my girlfriend split up, I wont act as thouh nothing is wrong, book a holiday to England and phone her when I get there saying shes dumped and then illigitemately marry someone else.
That is cold as ice 
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Posted By: jess
Date Posted: 27 April 2012 at 22:30
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Sean talks to reporter Meredith Viera:
http://goalfanzine.com/2012/04/watch-live-streaming-nbc-east-dateline-nbc-meredith-vieira-interviews-sean-goldman-new-1000pm-et-usa-april-27-2012-2/ - http://goalfanzine.com/2012/04/watch-live-streaming-nbc-east-dateline-nbc-meredith-vieira-interviews-sean-goldman-new-1000pm-et-usa-april-27-2012-2/
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Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 30 April 2012 at 10:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3fgTMgRYAQ -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3fgTMgRYAQ
link without the SPAM.
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** Just sayin' **
** Make lemonaid out of lemons. **
** Trolls get old...**
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Posted By: Ferguson21
Date Posted: 30 April 2012 at 13:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=XxWbulcnExs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=XxWbulcnExs
Brazilian TV
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Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 30 April 2012 at 19:35
good job Fergie!
I can understand both sides of this case, and the languages and the feelings that go into it. Mono-lingual US dad / mono-lingual Brazilian grandparents = problems.
The party who will really lose out is Sean, the boy.
BTW - I think it's the grandparents who are engranizados and not the stepfather. I could be wrong, but maybe the stepfather works *more* on behalf of the grandparents.
MY KIDS will grow up a little closer to Brazil, but I will make sure they understand where I come from as well. Why? Because I'm not a typical USA person who thinks they are right about everything. Too bad Sean's dad couldn't see that...
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** Just sayin' **
** Make lemonaid out of lemons. **
** Trolls get old...**
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 11:25
Originally posted by spongebob
good job Fergie! I can understand both sides of this case, and the languages and the feelings that go into it. Mono-lingual US dad / mono-lingual Brazilian grandparents = problems.
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Neither the grand parents nor the steph father who was granted custody (and not the grandparents) are quite fluent in English. Where did you get that Idea from.
Originally posted by spongebob
Because I'm not a typical USA person who thinks they are right about everything. Too bad Sean's dad couldn't see that...
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What's there not to see. The mother took the child and retained it illegally in Brazil. Although I can understand the feelings about it, the law is simple, when a child is being retained illegally, it must be returned to where he lived to decide on the custody.
But then the mom DIED, and custody was given to the STEPH FATHER.
I may be missing something, but what is it in that that Seans dad could not see.
The father never wanted to deny the kid to know its roots, but I find it totally understandable he doesn't want the grandparents to visit the kid, especially without anyone present. They just may take the kid and hop the border to mexico.
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Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 11:44
What can I say here? Assuming everyone of them does love that kid:
* I don't understand why Sean's mother ran away. Unless she had a problem with drugs or something really bad, it's very likely the US court would have given her the custody of the kid. Then she could happily go to Brazil and keep the kid there. But if I were her, I would do everything to keep him. After all, it was her that gave birth to the kid, and many mothers develop a strong bond with them starting their pregnancy, which is hard and no man can really, truly understand.
* If I were Sean's grandmother, I would also do everything in my power to keep him with me. Perhaps not lie about the father, since she didn't consider Sean could get upset if he found out she was concealing the truth – and he did. But I can't say I don't understand her – she kept living with that kid 5 years. Can we absolutely say she hated him?
* If I were Sean's father, I would do the same he did, because he was everything within my power to keep the kid with me, as I would be legally entitled to fight for my kid. And I wouldn't trust the grandma either, because since she loves Sean, she could very well take that kid back to Brazil.
That being said, I don't like that Sean says his father is a "guide." That creeps me out... almost as if he was saying his father is some sort of god. I don't know if he did say something along those lines, like "You can only trust on me," but for a healthy parent-child relationship to develop, I think the kid needs to see the parents as loving, but imperfect. If they don't, chances are they will grow too attached to their parents and be too insecure.
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 12:12
Originally posted by Megabyte
Unless she had a problem with drugs or something really bad, it's very likely the US court would have given her the custody of the kid. Then she could happily go to Brazil and keep the kid there. |
On what grounds? The kid wasn't even legally a Brazilian citizen.
Its much more likely that the US court would have given joint custody to the chhild in which case she could not leave the country.
Originally posted by Megabyte
* If I were Sean's grandmother, I would also do everything in my power to keep him with me. Perhaps not lie about the father, since she didn't consider Sean could get upset if he found out she was concealing the truth – and he did. But I can't say I don't understand her – she kept living with that kid 5 years. Can we absolutely say she hated him? |
Oh, so screw the father, my kid dies and I want his kid to substitute mine that died?
Even Brazilian law assumes automatic custody by the survivin parent, unless he's unable.
But it wasn't even the grandparents that got custody, it was the STEPH FATHER that was granted custody.
The reason this case got so terribly screwed up is because the steph father is a very prominent lawyer that specializes in family law. He knows judges and has family on the bench. He is also quite rich.
Seans father however initially had a lawyer that, imho, did not have much experience in thes kinds of cases, and that's how things got screwed up
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Posted By: jess
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 12:43
Originally posted by Megabyte
I don't like that Sean says his father is a "guide." That creeps me out... |
Sean has apparently been seeing a psychologist. The words he was using I suppose you could call psychobabble, too literally out of the mouth of the psychologist who is trying to help a confused kid make sense out of his situation, and help put the people in his life in context. It might have been more convincing to hear him explain his situation in the words of an 11 year old child, but it seems a start to organizing his thoughts about a (still) traumatic situation.
btw, the reporter on Globo last night misstated (i.e. lied) twice about what Sean actually said, further distorting the situation in the eyes of the Brazilian public.
This ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWbulcnExs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWbulcnExs ) seems to be the only Brazilian report that actually talks about how the case is seen in the U.S.
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Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 12:54
Originally posted by sven
Originally posted by Megabyte
Unless she had a problem with drugs or something really bad, it's very likely the US court would have given her the custody of the kid. Then she could happily go to Brazil and keep the kid there. |
On what grounds? The kid wasn't even legally a Brazilian citizen.
Its much more likely that the US court would have given joint custody to the chhild in which case she could not leave the country.
Originally posted by Megabyte
* If I were Sean's grandmother, I would also do everything in my power to keep him with me. Perhaps not lie about the father, since she didn't consider Sean could get upset if he found out she was concealing the truth – and he did. But I can't say I don't understand her – she kept living with that kid 5 years. Can we absolutely say she hated him? |
Oh, so screw the father, my kid dies and I want his kid to substitute mine that died?
Even Brazilian law assumes automatic custody by the survivin parent, unless he's unable.
But it wasn't even the grandparents that got custody, it was the STEPH FATHER that was granted custody.
The reason this case got so terribly screwed up is because the steph father is a very prominent lawyer that specializes in family law. He knows judges and has family on the bench. He is also quite rich.
Seans father however initially had a lawyer that, imho, did not have much experience in thes kinds of cases, and that's how things got screwed up |
I'm not considering what's right or wrong now. I'm trying to be emphatic and to think of what I would have done if I were all these 3 people. The law is the law, and in this case there seems to be little doubt that he should have stayed there. However, I'm also weighting the feelings of all those people. Sean's father, I believed, loved him as much as his grandma, or his mother.
Pretend you're the grandmother, Sven. Your daughter just died, and you've spent 5 years raising the kid. Yes, an abducted kid. But you love him, it's your grandson. Would you easily let him go? The same goes for the mother and the father of that kid, of course.
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Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 13:00
Originally posted by jess
Originally posted by Megabyte
I don't like that Sean says his father is a "guide." That creeps me out... |
Sean has apparently been seeing a psychologist. The words he was using I suppose you could call psychobabble, too literally out of the mouth of the psychologist who is trying to help a confused kid make sense out of his situation, and help put the people in his life in context. It might have been more convincing to hear him explain his situation in the words of an 11 year old child, but it seems a start to organizing his thoughts about a (still) traumatic situation.
btw, the reporter on Globo last night misstated (i.e. lied) twice about what Sean actually said, further distorting the situation in the eyes of the Brazilian public.
This ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWbulcnExs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWbulcnExs ) seems to be the only Brazilian report that actually talks about how the case is seen in the U.S. |
Well, I haven't seen the Brazilian news report Sunday, and I could only find it out now that you pointed it to me. What I have seen is the ABC interview, and it is Sean speaking to the reporter. He does state "my father is a guide." I have just seen a fragment of the interview, but it seems the Brazilian interview translated that as "melhor amigo" ("best friend,") which actually softens things a bit. I'll see the whole interview though to judge on what is wrong with it.
Here is Sean's ABC interview, by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3fgTMgRYAQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3fgTMgRYAQ
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Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 13:27
Oh, wait. I have actually seen that interview. Let me break it into pieces.
1:18 – Oh, I see. That reporter states Sean said his father is "perfect." Indeed Sean said nothing like that.
1:20 - 1:28 - "The thing Sean wanted the most was to leave to the US as soons as possible." Indeed, I don't remember him saying that, just that he was bothered by the many reporters harassing him in Brazil. (Though honestly, I doubt it didn't happen in the US. "Good" reporters are always looking for news, whatever the price may be.)
1:40-1:47: "It seems the interview will be very positive to Sean's dad, but very negative to his family [in Brazil], at least that's what NBC said."
Mmmm... it indeed was a very positive interview for his dad, but I'm not so sure it was extremely negative to his family in Brazil. It was negative, sure, because it said he was abducted, but I don't see his Brazilian family being portrayed as "manipulative" or "evil."
2:30-2:38 – "But here in the US Sean's father is seen as a hero that fought to keep the custody of his son."
That sounds true to me, at least how the NBC interview portrays it.
2:50-2:56 – "And the mother and the stepfather are seen as criminals here in the US."
Well, the media does state he was abducted, but to what extent is his Brazilian family seen as criminals? I think it's not the NBC interview that states this itself, but rather Sean's father ("how can I trust them if they are still keeping lawsuits here in Brazil and don't agree with my conditions?")
Now, I do know that one of his conditions, according to one Brazilian interview (not that one,) is that the Brazilian family needs to give their passport to someone government order to ensure they'll not run. It doesn't help the grandmother refuses to do that ("I'm not a criminal, so I shouldn't have my passport retained!")
Reporter in Brazil, 3:02 – "So David Goldman prevents the approximation of both the American and the Brazilian press."
Rather misleading from the reporter in Brazil. The reporter in the US does say David Goldman didn't answer his calls, but he's not answering anyone else but NBC (that sounds a bit fishy to me).
4:00-4:17 – that reporter says the Brazilian family accepted all conditions that David Goldman imposed, including paying for the lawyers, and yet David won't allow them to visit Sean. There's an interview where she said she didn't agree to them all, but that was from July 2011. She didn't want to be interviewed now, so it's very hard to know what happened between 2011 and 2012 to make David refuse them to see Sean. David claims they're still moving the lawsuits. How long would it take to withdraw the lawsuits against David?
By the way, this is the interview with her grandmother.
%20http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbV8zTdZn78 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbV8zTdZn78
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