Knowledge not transferrable
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Category: Brazil
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URL: http://www.gringoes.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15071
Printed Date: 21 May 2013 at 04:54
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Topic: Knowledge not transferrable
Posted By: Grantham
Subject: Knowledge not transferrable
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 17:53
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Has anyone experienced frustration with the fact that knowledge between the USA and Brazil is not directly transferrable? When I lived in Brazil, I couldn't use any of the skills I learned in the USA. Social skills, you have to learn them again in Brazil. Well, this is primarily academic. Math, grammar, reading, writing papers, literature, study skills, classroom skills, test taking skills, etc. etc. Everyone in Brazil, upon learning I was a gringo and thus spoke fluent English, was like "Wow! I'm so jealous, that's so cool!" You can only use English in Brazil to teach English. Not much use elsewhere. Yet people pay big money to learn English? 2 + 2 = 5? Plus the fact that curriculums don't directly transfer. Upon returning to the USA, I am slowly discovering that knowing Portuguese won't get me anywhere. It's just a decorative asset. People are like "Wow, you lived in Brazil, and you speak fluent Portuguese!" Now, does that transfer to anything practical? Does that go towards college credits, can I put that on my resume, is that attractive to employers, do I receive any awards or recognition? No, no, no, no, and no. Nothing, nada. I spent four years of my life racking my brains out to learn this stupid language, only to come back and have it on the list of things that make me "interesting" at most. Add to that I have to relearn skills that I knew but had to unlearn in Brazil in order to learn the Brazilian skills. What the hell? Similar experiences are welcome. |
Replies:
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 17:58
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a whining post from little g? color me surprised ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 17:59
Shut up. |
Posted By: 3casas
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 18:04
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That is a difficult reality. The sooner you build up other skills that you can use Brazil as a foil to, the more it will help you. For example, as a general translator, ho-hum, there's crummy work out there. When you start getting into translating oilfield stuff, for example, that's where the money is- it's specialized knowledge. I agree with you G. I speak 4 languages, but what i can DO is worth much more than what language I can explain it in. #1- if people haven't told you enough times, study something that gives you added value if possible. #2- only 4 years to learn PT? it's not bad really. i know you didn't start with nothing but it's still admirable. #3 - saw the academic differences with my kid. I couldn't even begin to describe it when we came here except maybe for "slow down, shut up and stop thinking creatively". We are planning to send her up to the US to do a year one of these years and besides middle school being absolute torture anyway, i wonder how the differences will affect her. Can you take something to document your portuguese ability before it starts to go south? I know the UN offers some kind of test, but there must be something you could take to document it and then at least be able to put it on your resume. Back to work, learning SAP terminology so I can add another thing to MY resume. ------------- |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 18:16
I would love to here what social skills you had to learn to survive in Brazil? And poor little you, you had to learn a second language oh the horror. Like 3c said check and see if you can get some type of certification for your level. Also, most colleges should let you take a PT test and place out of a language requirement. Life isn't as hard and awful as you make it seem. stop acting like a victim in your own life ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 18:23
Well, thank you for that useful information, abut the PT test. Im assuming PT means portuguese? You could've said that in your first post. I don't think I'm making my life seem hard and awful. And I'm certainly not acting a victim. I'm just a little more emotional than the average person and can't handle rejection, at all. Isn't a person allowed to express the full extent of his/her emotion as a human being? |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 18:29
that's what I mean by being a victim. If you didn't know you could place out of a language requirement it means you had already resigned yourself to failure/victimhood. use what you learned/experienced in Brazil to your advantage, don't continue to think of it as a waste of your time. ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 18:43
Well, let's see, I learned a lot. I learned Portuguese. I learned about different writers in Portuguese,and in Brazil. I graduated with a diploma from a Brazilian high school. Maybe that means something? That I'm good at Portuguese? I learned a bit about the culture of Brazil. I learned about products and consumer preferences. Economy and the availability and prices of goods in Brazil vs. USA. The fact that you can find orange juice in the USA and not in Brazil. And how consumer preference, money, and profit factor into who gets what. Basically because Americans have a desire for orange juice, they have the money to buy it, and orange suppliers make more profit from supplying to the USA than to Brazil. That and public attitudes and practices regarding oranges. Americans like oranges, and also like ready made orange juice. They have it at breakfast and other times. They like it fast and easy, because theyre busy. So things like that I learned. I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I'm thinking of transferring to a larger, more urban, diversified university. Maybe a public one. Not sure. The opportunities for me to do what I'm best at and to use what I've learned in Brazil, and what I know, here at this college, are limited. |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 19:40
And to someone, somewhere in the US, that knowledge can be important. However, if you're looking for a job at wallmart (just an example) or the department of justice, that knowledge may be useless. |
Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 20:01
Why hadn't I thought of it before? I'm just looking in the wrong places!! Thanks! |
Posted By: jess
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 20:03
Yes, you can put in on your resume. Yes, it is attractive to employers, in particular those who may have Brazilian employees or clients or who do business with Brazil. And it will certainly get you a lot of somewhere if you know how and where to market it. (It has me! And many more folks I know.)
(And btw, yes, I also find your attitude in posts to be immature, self-indulgent and whine-y, which may be one reason you can't seem to leverage your skills.)
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Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 20:15
Well thank you for that practical information. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places. Well, its unfortunate that some people on this forum find me immature, self indulgent and whiney. Or maybe I just have low emotional intelligence when it comes to some things. I get frustrated easily, yes. Very easily. And I recognize that's a problem. It's just that, if I don't get my hopes up before doing something, then I don't have the drive or energy to actually do it. So in a way, it's counterproductive. I can only be motivated to do something when I get excited about it, and when it doesn't go my way, when it takes too long, and when there are obstacles in the way, I get frustrated, lose my motivation, and give up easily. Does that sound like a little kid? Maybe so. I've tried going about it differently, or persisting and persevering, until something actually works out. And when it does I realize it's not worth it in the end when I have to go through all the hassle to get it. It eventually balances out to not being worth it, when I have to put in so much work to get something that's not worth the work that's required of me to put into it. |
Posted By: Capybara
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 20:18
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Gran, you have so much going for you - just keep in mind that we have to create our own opportunities. Speaking PT can be a great asset, like others have already said you can test out of college language requirements and get credit. You can also look into the American Translators Assoc. exams - they certify translators and are pretty well known so theres a resume booster. You could also try researching companies that do a lot of business in Brazil and scope out the positions in which bilingual employees function.
What part of the US are you in? im from Boston and theres a huge Brazilian community there, along with a huge demand for all types of services in PT. Accountants, dentists, hairdressers, lawyers, you name it and you can probably find a professional who speaks PT. You could choose almost any occupation and market yourself to the PT speaking community in addition to traditional American clients. If youre dead set on not using your PT, though, you might want to get a jump on learning another romance language thats more useful to you. It really is easier to learn a closely related language while you have the structure your mind. Languages are a use it or lose it deal... |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 20:48
You are smart enough to know that. That's why Inknow you are only ranting.... |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 17 April 2012 at 21:45
Partly true. First, Brazilians won't recognize your American achievements. As for returning home, I have found my experiences in Brazil quite easy to sell. Everyone seems impressed. It's all how you phrase it. As for the language, it depends on the sector you are trying to work in. Of course there are very few Port. speakers in the US (it's not Spanish). Then again, if you want to work at the State Dept. or with companies looking to do business in Brazil, it's a bit more useful. The real problem with that, however, is the practical American mindset. I applied for a great job that required Portuguese. I would have been working with Brazilian clients. They said they liked me and I had a good connection at the company. But, they hired a Brazilian! So, any bonus you get for speaking Portuguese ends up being minimal. There is always a Brazilian who can do it. That's the US for you. That's why I think Brazil is anti-immigrant. I applied for jobs in which I was the immigrant and had the relevant skills. They hired the Brazilian. Different mindset. They don't hire Americans in Brazil unless you are an executive flown in or an expert flown in to train. Worst of both worlds! F*&^ it. I've got a better job now. 
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Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 10:12
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Maybe its just me being naive, inexperienced, or whatever. But, I thought, in a globalized, modern world, the transfer of skills could be direct wherever you go. Apparently not. Apparently Brazil, even in Curitiba, Sao Paulo, and Rio de Janeiro, is still a primitive economy where a few very wealthy families have the skills and the cultural know how, and the inheritance, judicial power, and control of certain sectors of the economy to live wonderfully good.
There are certain industries that are practically non existent in Brazil. The IT industry? Since when has Brazil come up with any useful IT technologies? All they do is copy and produce IT that was invented somewhere else for the internal and external market.
And you would think that maybe, as an American with the skills, experience, and knowledge of Portuguese, you could land a good job with a good Brazilian company. No. There is usually a Brazilian who they would rather hire. This is why a lot of Brazilians leave Brazil. Brain drain, anyone?
They are more appreciated and get better salaries elsewhere. In Europe, Canada, or the USA. And these are skilled Brazilians.
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Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 10:24
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Maybe its just me being naive, inexperienced, or whatever. But, I thought, in a globalized, modern world, the transfer of skills could be direct wherever you go
why did you think this? There are certain industries that are practically non existent in Brazil. The IT industry? Since when has Brazil come up with any useful IT technologies? These guys were one of my customers in BH. I think they have their sh*t together. http://thenextweb.com/la/2011/11/28/brazilian-video-service-samba-tech-expands-to-latin-america-aiming-for-ipo-in-2016/ And you would think that maybe, as an American with the skills, experience, and knowledge of Portuguese, you could land a good job with a good Brazilian company. No. There is usually a Brazilian who they would rather hire. This is why a lot of Brazilians leave Brazil. Brain drain, anyone? are you talking from personal experience? aren't you like 20? I don't think many companies are looking for someone as young as you. However, I have a buddy here working for Vale who is an American. His mother is Brazilian so I am sure that helped him. It isn't that they would RATHER hire a Brazilian, it is that it is easier to hire a Brazilian bc of the hoops they would need to go through for a visa. If you are an employee that is really attractive to a company and they can get you that visa, then I am sure they would. But if a Brazzer can do the same job as well, why not hire him. ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 10:38
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Cara, I don't think Brazil is anti-immigrant compared to most other countries. It's that the Brazilian mind doesn't think in terms "efficiency" and "uniformity". That's why (1) everything takes forever (2) you hear a different answer from everyone you talk to. I think you're confusing this with anti-immigration. Seriously, look at immigrating to the US, France, Germany, Japan, just about anywhere. You'll see that they have the "standard" practices. Unless you got a job lined up, spouse or child, or through investment, it's pretty tough to get "into" a country legally. Moreover, ALL COUNTRIES are protectionalist in terms of their own citizens. It's almost impossible to get a cushy government job in almost any country without citizenship. Brazil, on the contrary, seems to be very pro-immigrant with the amnesty program it has every 8-10 years. When was the last time the other countries did that? The US - never! ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 10:40
This is just not true. First, Brazil does not have as diversified an economy as the US/Canada/Britain/etc. I said 'diversified' because it's true. A lot of Brazil's economy is low-quality local services and exports of raw materials, agriculture, etc. Second, it's not just the visa issue. There is a tangible xenocentrism in US cities and in sectors such as academic research, IT, etc. It's the opposite in Brazil. It goes beyond law and visa. They are xenophobic. This board is full of people who have plenty of job skills and even perm. visas and end up working as ESL teachers. In the US, for example, it's the opposite. At universities and in lots of companies you will find foreigners who speak intermediate English, but they bring dynamism, intelligence, etc. to the company, so they are hired. At my new job here in the US this is the case. There are tons of foreigners. It's an IT company. There are plenty of locals who can do the job, and the foreigners earn the same salaries as the locals who are hired. So, why hire foreigners? They bring something different to the table, fresh perspectives, new ideas, etc. You won't find any Brazilian companies doing that. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 10:44
I agree, the US doesn't give amnesty. Then again, the positions of the two countries are different. The US accepts far more immigrants per capita than Brazil, it's not even close. The xenophobia I refer to goes beyond policy. It's a mindset and an attitude. It has to do with their inferiority complex. Most of my college-educated Brazilian friends AGREE with me. They tell me about the xenophobic comments they hear in the workplace, etc. The difference is that in Rio, a tourist city, it's ACCEPTABLE to be prejudice in the street. I know because I've seen it. Everybody just nods their head. Well, you may find that in the 'hick' areas of the US, but not in the liberal cities. It's only foreigners who deny this, and ignorant Brazilians who have never been anywhere else who say things like 'this is the most open country in the world' with absolutely no perspective, evidence or experience to back up their claims. |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 10:46
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which part of what I wrote is not true? my question to little g, that I taught at a company named Samba Tech, that they are doing well, that it is easier for a Brazilian company to hire a Brazilian?
This board is full of people....how many? Do you not think that there are other expats in Brazil who work? Let's say 20, 30, 40, hell....100 people here on this board say they can't find work. 100 people out of how many expats that can legally work here don't have a job. and FYI the number on this board not working in their field, who speak Portugues, and who can legally work here is far far far far far below 100...I'd bet under 15. but yeah, this board is "full of people" who have plenty of skills and can't get a job here and have to teach ESL ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 10:51
I think that I lived in Brazil for several years. I also had gringo friends who had lived in SP for 20 years, in Rio for 30 years, etc. When I went to Brazil I was naive. THEY are the ones who told me that no, Brazilian companies don't hire foreigners. Just go into companies in downtown Rio, near Carioca and in SP. The foreigners are sent from the headquarters, that's it. I have my experiences, you have yours. That's fine. But the extremely low numbers of foreigners living in Brazil attest to what I'm saying. Most come and leave because they cannot find reasonable work. Then they go get high-paying jobs back home, where things are slightly more practical, for both them AND for Brazilians! 
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Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 11:02
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You "think" you lived in Brazil for several years? Why don't you know?
I am not discussing experience, I am discussing what you wrote. See, you make arguments and claims and cite things as being facts or true, yet mostly what you say can't be verified. The "board is full of gringos who can't find jobs" is one such comment, and this is another "Then they go get high-paying jobs back home, where things are slightly more practical, for both them AND for Brazilians!" You have no way of proving what you are saying as true. ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 11:11
Sorry, typo on 'think.' Reworked the sentence. A lot of what you say on the board is not falsifiable. I don't think it's easy to 'prove' any of this stuff. The fact, however, is that opportunities exist everywhere, as long as they are not made UNAVAILABLE. You can start a company anywhere. You can get a job anywhere. UNLESS you are kept out by bureaucracy and/or xenophobia. Brazil is both anti-immigrant when it comes to labor politics and culture. We all know how hard it is to get a work visa, ok. The culture argument is much harder to prove. I think you should try hanging out in NYC, LA, SF, Seattle, Boston, at American universities, i.e. the economic and cultural centers of the US, and see what it's like. I believe closed-mindedness, or xenophobia, comes from economic and existing social factors, i.e. Brazil's restrictive work-visa policy, the lack of foreigners teaching at universities, the chip-on-our-shoulder effect created by the international and Brazilian media, etc. Cheers |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 11:28
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opportunity is everywhere. if someone has a self defeating attitude they won't get very far in life.
I think you should try hanging out in NYC, LA, SF, Seattle, Boston, at American universities umm...why? ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 11:32
To see what a more diverse place is like. Duh. |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 11:55
I know what a diverse place is like....I'm not from this sh*tty mining town. I didn't grow up in a bubble ya know. ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: Bubbles
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 12:01
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Posted By: Gringodude
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 12:26
Lol it helped me blast through spanish classes and show up drunk, and still manage to dominate the class! Though if you are looking at the practical sense for a job, you need to think international relations. It won't get you far at mcdonalds; you're right about that! ------------- Keeping the BrazilianLifestyle "Have a great day everyone" - Ray "You know who you are, now go and reflect!" - Esprit |
Posted By: scottyh
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 12:28
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hmmm.. I think the problem is that the words: skills and Brazil simply don't go together... Brazilians don't seem to learn skills... they are just obsessed with certificates, courses and pieces of paper... having skills isn't deemed as being as valubale as having a certificate saying you have studied yet another course... vestibular and the whole educational system seem to sum it up... buy a book, sit in silence, copy from the board, listen to the teach... today we are doing page 15... Why teacher??? because yesterday we did page 14! as for English... well again, most people seem to pay all that money for an English course just to get yet another certificate... that aren't really that bothered about learning and being able to speak English... Therefore, the course that is the easiest for them to simply get the certificate is viewed as the best course...
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Posted By: jess
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 12:49
Well, hey, it could get you a manager's position (paying U$40K or so) at any Mickey's in the Boston area (which all have lots of Portuguese and Spanish speaking customers and crew). Or Dunkin Donuts.
 |
Posted By: harun55
Date Posted: 20 April 2012 at 09:20
| I am satisfied with you that knowledge is not transferable but we can provide our knowledge to other and vice-versa. |
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 20 April 2012 at 13:19
jess, some of the most boring jobs pay more in the US like grocery store or restaurant managers. When I worked at a bank, I saw the pay of some truck stop restaurant "assistant" managers that were getting 70k/year, and this was many years ago. I even started at a grocery store chain in the US. I told the manager I wanted the job because "I wanted to be a manager because the field is good and the pay is good" Everything was fine and well until I got robbed at gunpoint.  I don't know if grocery store manager is so good anymore because of Walmart.When I look back, I was always eyeing the jobs that paid more in the US. Definitely, it's management jobs of just about any kind. Nowadays though, I'm out of the rat race. Been there, done that, and hope to never have to go back to that. ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 20 April 2012 at 15:48
| @spongebob someone told me UPS drivers make 70-90K. word. |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 20 April 2012 at 15:58
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UPS drivers make bank...hard work, but they make good money ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 22 April 2012 at 22:19
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Interesting comments of yours, but I'd like to show things through another angle, if you don't mind.
You see, there might be prejudice because you're a foreigner in Brazil, sure. But is that solely based on the fact you're American? Well, our local newspaper was discussing about prejudice when hiring against native people. Let me summarize the contents of the news today: * If you're overweight, you're 70% less likely to get a job compared to non-overweight people, even if the job doesn't require you to be a fitness model, or physical strength. I'm talking about being 20kgs overweight (around 10 pounds, I assume). * Accent and voice pitch. Quoting the newspaper, "if your voice pitch does not sound pleasant to the interviwer, or if you have an accent (s)he considers annoying, the odds will be against you." Again, I'm not talking about a foreigner that speaks Portuguese – I'm talking about natives from different areas! Also, pray you're not a man with a high voice pitch... especially if you want to get a job to deal with the public. * If you're a handsome man, your chances to get the job will be 30% higher compared to an average man. Now what is "handsome" here? White skin, light-colored eyes... yes, an "European" standard. * However, if you're a handsome woman, your chances to get hired will be around 30% lower compared to the average woman. If the interviewer is a woman, it's probably because they're envious of your beauty (yes, that happens among Brazilian women). If the interviewer is a man, he'll probably think you're "hot and dumb". Stereotype much? You bet! * If you're from a poor place, you might be discarded as well. * You need to have a cheerful personality, and you might also be asked about how is your family like. If you say your marriage is a bit shakey, well... * If you show tatoos, you can also be dismissed. This is more aggravating if you have a design this company doesn't like, (snakes, for instance) and/or if they're too big. It doesn't matter if you're dealing with the public or not. Now, let's talk about American people. This is my own little theory (next post). |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 22 April 2012 at 22:20
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American Xenophobia: are you discarded because you're American?
While some interviwers may be xenophobic, the right answer why you might not get a job is because American people don't want to work for peanuts. Yes, that's right. You see, at my father's former company, an American manager was hired. He wanted to raise the salaries of everyone. His superiors told him, "Raise their salaries? Are you mad? We should reduce their salaries, because we need to cut costs and they still need the job! You see, a native Brazilian might think he'll get a higher pay working out of the country, speaking three languages... big mistake. Many companies will say you are "overqualified" and that you're "too dynamic" for the job. If you speak fluent Portuguese, English and Italian, plus you've got Microsoft and Linux certificates and you're very experienced, you'll earn around R$ 3,000 ($ 1.500). Considering the time you've spent on sharpening your skills, do you consider that good money? So, to wrap things up here, usually it's not you're not being hired because you're American per se. It's because the interviewer will associate American = wants much higher salary.And, following our third world mentality, why bother to pay $5000 to an American worler when I can just hire a Brazilian worker for $2500? We all deserve good salaries, but yes, people are this greedy. Sorry. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 22 April 2012 at 23:03
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@Megabyte, you just said one thing: one cannot be sure of the reason he or she did not get hired for a SPECIFIC job.
Yet, we are not talking about specific instances here. It's funny. I would NEVER claim that Mexicans do not face discrimination in the US. But, on this board people are completely resistant to the idea that a foreigner in Brazil could face similar discrimination. Wake up... |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 00:45
Actually, what I was saying applies to most jobs. When they do phone you to say you didn't get the job, you're likely to get the message, "I'm sorry, but your [psychological] profile does not match with the one we're looking for." But it's all bullsh*t: it's because you're underqualified, overqualified, too handsome/beautiful, too ugly, overweight, whatever. I'm not resistent to the idea that foreigners won't be discriminated here, given that I have read many posts of you people struggling to get a job yourselves. The thing is, when it comes to American people, I don't believe they're not hired because of a deep hatred feeling of anti-americanism. I believe all these other factors (weight, appearance, over/under qualification) should be taken into account first, as they happen to natives as well. The core of my theory is: I believe most companies resist hiring Americans because they think they'll demand a higher salary than they are willing to pay, and will probably not work extra hours for free, like many of us do (notice I'm not saying this refusal is a bad thing.) If you do have a good article from a reliable source showing that American immigrants aren't hired for sheer xenophobia, please do share it with us. It'll be very enlightening. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 01:25
Most Brazilians work extra hours for free? You mean the public sector ones who get every single hour accounted for and get extra vacation for it? Or the ones who work in the private sector just like Americans do in salaried jobs and work 60 hours per week? ... |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 07:56
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cara0910,
I'll be blunt. I won't get into this debate again of public sector vs private sector. But yeah, just for the record, I'm talking about the private sector here. Are you willing to be qualified enough, but not to be overqualified and earn $2500 for a job actually worth at least $5000 (college teacher, for instance)? Also, make sure you meet all the requirements above: don't be underqualified, overqualified, overweight, don't live in a poor place, don't have an annoying voice, don't have wavy / curly hair (if you do, straighten it), etc. When you do that, you may get a job. Welcome to Brazil. I'll let this newspaper do the talking. Below are pages 38 and 38 for you to download and read. http://www.mediafire.com/file/620yd62kdlkrdk9/p_38.pdf - http://www.mediafire.com/file/620yd62kdlkrdk9/p_38.pdf http://www.mediafire.com/file/2bxith5etaldb6i/p_39.pdf - http://www.mediafire.com/file/2bxith5etaldb6i/p_39.pdf |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 09:42
I had several jobs in Brazil. Nothing you said proves in any way that Brazil is not full of xenophobia. People told me "go back to your own country" and way worse things about being American on a regular basis. Now, you want me to believe that doesn't affect how I am seen when going in for an interview? That's not realistic. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 10:21
Well, if an employer did that to you, you could sue him/her for racism and win. But they usually do not say those things openly. Now, even if this did happen to you, it doesn't mean it is widespread. It may happen, but is it widespread? If you can get me a serious article about widespread, open prejudice against American foreigners in Brazil, please show us one instead. It'll be more productive. Otherwise, this conversation has no point. |
Posted By: tamte
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 13:45
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Somebody here is somewhat off the reality?
Has never worked a day or tried to apply for a job?
The only way he can answer is to google around trying to find an article and is asking us to find an article that proves something contrary
 We, who are working here our as*es off, paying high taxes on everything, getting nothing in return, we know what it is about working here (pain in the butt).
For a foreigner to get a decent job in Brazil, the only "easy" way is through international company (expat).
Or to start your own business (not the easy way), what you need to run with a iron fist (not letting the Brazilians to be involved in anykind of desicion making or financials).
I know 3 companies here in this city from my home country, and none of them let's Brazilians to be in control of the financies (the controller is always from the HQ's). These companies are doing well. As many other international companies also.
One big European company started here 3 years ago, they closed 1 year after, loosing around 10millionEUR. Quess why? They hired a SP director and financial controller, I told the CEO (know him) in Europe, that don't do that, you'll be doomed within a year. He said that the locals know better how to do business in Brazil
  He did not listen, they had to close as the director and CFO stole everything they were able to steal. Did not care less about the employees, did not offer them personal safery devices like masks etc (required by the law), stole even the lunch money and fed them s*it (one day 20 workers were taken into hospital due food poisoning after eating "podre" food).
Do not trust Brazilians, simple and easy 1st rule. If you need to hire them, supervise them! Your life is lot easier. They are only after easy money, not willing to do too much to "EARN" the honest way. Can't really blame them as that's how they have learned to do. The politicians are showing good example, doing the same all the time, so why the "working" citizens should be different
There are exceptions, but they are rare to find. Never, ever let your shield go down. I'm not paranoid, just seen and learned a lot during being involved in different businesses the last 10 years in Brazil.
Brazil is the most dishonest "westernized" country I have been working with, out off the 44 countries.
------------- life's too short to be living without you, babe. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 16:28
|
hahahaha. Yea, that's what many people feel about Brazilians. Probably part true.
As for an article on anti-Americanism, I don't have one. Sorry. What I do know is that EVERY Brazilian says that Brazilians are soooooo soooo nice, not like Americans! Brazilians sooooo warm and friendly, not like Americans! Brazil is an open country that will welcome anyone, not like America! Basically every Brazilian I know says that kind of garbage to me all the time. So, I ask: have you lived in the US? How many Americans do you know? Usually the answers are "no" and "less than 3." Yet, they have very strong views about Americans. I lived in Brazil for several years. Every single person I knew had an opinion about Americans, even though the vast, vast majority knew almost nothing about the US except that Disneyland is there, they have a cousin who lives in Miami/Houston, and Coca-cola comes from there. They are mostly anti-American even though they know nothing about the place. Oh well! Glad I live in a place less full of prejudice now! 
|
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 17:15
|
cara, people in Brazil aren't Anti-American. You're still alive to talk about it, right? hahah. Go for a stroll in Iran and come back and tell us how it went. typically, the feelings are pretty good between brazilians and americans. But Brazilians think every American eats eggs and bacon for breakfast, which is not true. ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 18:57
|
@spongebob, you're right, people in Iran are MORE anti-American. But, I have been to places where people are way more friendly toward Americans, such as all over Africa and in India.
Hahaha. It's true, they all think we eat eggs and bacon for breakfast! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 20:11
Believe me, of course I have. And I know what prejudice is very well. I might not suffer the same kind of prejudice you suffer, but I do. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 20:20
When things boil down to money and big companies, you always have to watch out for people. This applies not only to Brazil but to any country. Or would you blindly trust an American CFO just because he's American, not checking your company's profit? Now, I'll grant you that: Brazilian bosses treat people like sh*t indeed. sh*tty food, sh*tty equipment... they even force cannibalism among their own employees to earn money in the short run, not considering this hurts the company in the long run. Of course, Wall Mart is a classic example of cannibalism, so we're not the only onles to do it – but we refuse to learn from these mistakes. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 20:35
| @Megabyte, what makes Wal-Mart "American?" What about Coca-cola? These are global companies, more like empires. They have roots in the US, but they aren't American anymore... |
Posted By: Ferguson21
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 20:38
Not true, everybody knows that Americans have breakfast at McDonalds. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 21:02
You know, your paragraph raises very interesting questions. 1. What makes a company "American"? 2. How can we define how "American" a company is? On what grounds do we define this? 3. When is a company not "American" anymore? |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 22:38
Exactly. I don't have the answers. I know that a company like Coca-Cola certainly makes more money outside of the US than in it, no doubt about it. As for Wal-Mart, I'm sure the US is their big market for now, but they have expanded rapidly in Mexico. Petrobras is Brazilian as it's tied to the Brazilian state. Coca-cola is certainly not American as there is nothing uniquely American about it and it has no serious ties to the US. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 22:38
pahahah |
Posted By: harun55
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 06:39
I am only listen about Energy which is not transfer from one form to another.haaaa |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 09:52
No? They are what then??? The Coca Cola company's board of directors are all americans. Same goes for wallmart. They are american multinationals. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 11:55
I don't think that makes Coca-cola in any way "American." What does it mean to be American? In 10 years Coca-cola could very well be "Chinese." Nothing really ties that entity to the US in any real way. |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 12:42
Yes, bacon and eggs at Mc Donalds. |
Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 13:45
| Brazilians are not happy. They are only joyful. I have found many more happy Americans who are truly "happy" with their lives. I have only found a few Brazilians who are happy with their lives. They compensate for their unhappiness with alegria and carnaval and beer and samba. They think theyre happy. They dont know what theyre missing. And the ones who leave Brazil are usually happier out of Brazil than in it. I have met plenty of Brazilians who swear they will never return to their country, not even to visit. They talk with their relatives by email or by phone, but they will never even step foot in Brazil again. I imagine why. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, inflation was staggering! The government froze people's bank accounts! Talk about unstable! I wouldnt want to live in a country where that happened! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 15:07
I was hesitating to say anything, but your statement is quite big. "Brazilians are not happy." But what is happiness? Is it a state of everlasting bliss? And where does it come from? A good job? A family? Money? Because you're talking about "inflation" and "bank accounts," I'm assuming you're talking about money, as in "Brazilian people are unhappy, poor people." While that may be true, there are poor people that can find peace of mind, and rich people that can't. Let's take Amy Winehouse: she had everything to be successful: a beautiful voice, an unique singing style, tons of people that admired her... money. Everything. And yet, she drugged and drunk herself to death. Why? You could say she wanted to try some drugs to feel some temporary happiness, but wasn't she happy before? Or... was she doing that to feel some sort of void, just like "Brazilian people" do with "beer and samba?" |
Posted By: tamte
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 18:25
|
Happiness is something when you know that you have a future to live on.
Basic things, family, work, retirement plan, home.
Something educative to do your sparetime (something else than drinking and trying to forget the miserable life) And you feel good on what you are doing.
Simple, to have life in good track, it is not all about the money, which Brazilians seems to be thinking, only...
I was happy where I was born, I was happy in the USofA (knowing that I didn't have to live there for the rest of my life
), I'm happy now here in Brazil. To live happily in Brazil means a lot of flexibility and adjustability. It is not about the money. Of course you need little bit to get food etc, but not tons of it.
Brazilians seems to be thinking that the more you earn the more you need to steal
(to be happy?)------------- life's too short to be living without you, babe. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 18:34
The most disappointing thing about living in Rio was how insanely materialistic and money-focused everybody was. There are very few post-modern-type people who are more concerned with things other than money. I think it has to do with Brazil's recent rise into the "second world" and the large wealth gap. Everybody is concerned with "making it big." It's quite depressing. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 22:52
Whoa! You're opening a can of worms now. Your answer leads to a deeper question: "What is the meaning of life?" And frankly, your answer may vary widely depending on your religious beliefs (or lack thereof.) Most biologists would say life has no real meaning, that "it is just there." So, it's actually you that make your life meaningful. Point being: if life has no real meaning, and it is you who assign a meaning to it, what's the difference between spending your whole money drinking or helping the poor? |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 22:53
But so aren't many people in the US? If consuming 50% of the planet's resources alone isn't materialism, then what is it? |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 23:02
That comment shows you have a misunderstanding of where those resources go. Many are not due to any differing behavior, but rather to differences in infrastructure, agriculture, etc. Everything in the US economy relies on oil, long-distance transport, etc. That consumes a lot of energy. Many cariocas are far more into material wealth than the people I grew up with. That said, in my hometown in the US, we still probably consume more resources, as our food is grown using industrial agricultural techniques, everything is shipped to us from abroad or afar, we live in a cold environment and hence use a lot of fuel, our inrastructure demands that we drive much more than those in bigger cities, etc. Brazil is undergoing a huge economic boom. The mentality is similar to the way Americans felt in the 1950s. "Wealth will fix our problems," or "I can buy more, therefore I am happier." That type of thinking grows day by day in Brazil. On the other hand, it is challenged every day in the US by people who are fed up with consumer culture. The US is home to many eco-communities, local food movements, etc. Most Brazilians don't have to think about local food. They are just undergoing full industrialization of the food chain, manufacturing, etc. So, that is reflected in the mindset. Brazilians are in the modernist-second-world phase of intellectual/cultural development. In fact, in the recent past, Brazil was far less consumer-oriented than it is today. Now, consumerism has taken hold, and things are only going to get worse. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 23:17
So, you're basically saying that 1950s America had a materialistic mentality, saying it is being questioned now in the US, and you blame Rio for having that old mentality? Now, I know better we're stupid enough not to learn from other countries' mistakes, but who are you to judge? Also, even though consumerism is being questioned in US economy of today, the US government has not signed the Kyoto protocol, has it? Let's not forget about the old coal technology and nuclear plants you're so reluctant to get rid of. To finish this post, I'll post a video that reflects an American materialistic culture that is alive and kicking, "thank you very much," and another that shows that there are people in Brazilian society that do care about the dangers of materialism. The High Price of Materialism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGab38pKscw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGab38pKscw Individualismo e o meio-ambiente http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy5VFibArCo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy5VFibArCo |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 23:30
I never said anything that was judgmental of Brazil. I said that I don't want to live in Rio surrounded by absurdly wealth people who only care about themselves and poor people who think "making it" means becoming absurdly wealthy so they can buy $500 shoes and run people over like the wealthy do. The Kyoto protocol? You are referring to the US government, not the people. Furthermore, I didn't say that all Americans were like this. I said there were significant pockets of people who are anti-materialist. Third, the Kyoto protocol is a bogus attempt at staving off a far more serious problem. I don't support it as it merely pays lip-service to global warming. It's worse than doing nothing as it fools people into thinking something is being done. In case you didn't know, the much of modern environmentalism arose out of the United States of America. Start reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmentalism#History I have a degree in Environmental History. You "proved" that America is materialistic by posting a video made by an American describing the ills of materialism? Hahahaha! My point was: there is a strong anti-consumerist anti-materialist movement in the US. As I said, I think this type of mentality is actually being quickly eroded in Brazil as many see the chance to move into the "middle class." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_food - An example of the type of topic people discuss in the US. In Brazil, agriculture is just industrializing. Brazil has its eyes on the "benefits" of industrialized agriculture. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 23:45
So you're saying "keeping up Joneses" doesn't happen in the US at all? Or that the situation has been improving? Maybe Pink was thinking of the average Rio de Janeiro woman when she was composing this? Or was she hallucinating? Stupid Girls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR4yQFZK9YM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR4yQFZK9YM |
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 23:46
yeah, that's life. What do you live on a computer 24/? The Kyoto protocol? You are referring to the US government, not the people. Furthermore, I didn't say that all Americans were like this. I said there were significant pockets of people who are anti-materialist. Kyoto is so 2000. Move forward young man. Third, the Kyoto protocol is a bogus attempt at staving off a far more serious problem. I don't support it as it merely pays lip-service to global warming. It's worse than doing nothing as it fools people into thinking something is being done. Kyoto again.. give it a rest. That is passé. Nobody cares. You may not "support" it, but you quote it a lot. In case you didn't know, the much of modern environmentalism arose out of the United States of America. Start reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmentalism#History I have a degree in Environmental History. You "proved" that America is materialistic by posting a video made by an American describing the ills of materialism? Hahahaha! My point was: there is a strong anti-consumerist anti-materialist movement in the US. As I said, I think this type of mentality is actually being quickly eroded in Brazil as many see the chance to move into the "middle class." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_food - An example of the type of topic people discuss in the US. In Brazil, agriculture is just industrializing. Brazil has its eyes on the "benefits" of industrialized agriculture. Cara -- go to bed or get off the computer. Find some games to play. Good God.. as Grads said, everything you "jorrar" is based on YOUR experiences only. I haven't read anything here that was indicative of behavior at a national level.------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 23:52
| @spongebob Maybe you should read Megabyte's post first. He/she referred to Kyoto, that was my response. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 24 April 2012 at 23:54
I thought you were smarter than the rest of the board members (Sven is smart too). I didn't say that at all. I said there was an anti-materialist movement that is growing in the US, while it's shrinking in Brazil. However things are at a national level, I am in a community of well-educated, pro-environmental, pro-health for all, pro-sustainability, pro-diversity, anti-war people in the US. There is almost no crime. The recession has barely touched us. Way better than Rio!! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 00:03
But I don't see exactly how your comparison is valid. You use Rio as a measurement to Brazil as a whole, then you say that you live in a "pocket community" that is pro-sustainability, pro-diversity, anti-war, etc. How is comparing a "pocket community" to a whole state (or country) fair? Those "pocket communities" you speak of also exist here. This is an example of pro-biodiversity project: Tamar Project. It's about helping sea turtles to reproduce, and it's been around for a long time now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG3H2rmsTHQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG3H2rmsTHQ Also, there are a few archipelagos, like Fernando de Noronha, where not even electricity is allowed so it won't disturb nature. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 00:20
|
Tamar Project helps sea turtles reproduce? And that's an example of a sustainable community?
http://directory.ic.org/records/ecovillages.php - USA 260 ecovillages! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 07:48
*Sigh* Fernando de Noronha is. Tamar is an ecological project to save sea turtles. I tought that was implied somehow. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 11:04
Fernando de Noronha is an ecotourism island. It's not sustainable living. The communities there subsist off tourist dollars earned in SP, RJ and elsewhere. That's ONE example of ecotourism in Brazil. Rather than go into the entire ecotourism debate, how about this, which reveals the way most Brazilians feel about "progress," environmental protection, and indigenous communities. As I have said in many other post, Brazilians have a huge, huge chip on their shoulder. Everything they do is to show up "developed" countries or to tell them off. And that sentiment is going to be used for the next 50 years to destroy the natural environment in Brazil. "It's our right!!!" hahahaha. It's pathetic. http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/head-of-brazils-environmental-protection-agency-says-it-is-not-his-job-to-protect-the-environment.html As the President of Brazil's environmental protection agency IBAMA, which oversees regulationion in the world's largest rainforest, Curt Trennepohl has a very important position -- the only problem is, he says that protecting the environment isn't part of it. In an interview with Australia's "60 Minutes", when asked if his job was to guard the environment from destructive projects, Trennepohl replied: "No, my job is to minimize the impacts." And as if that were not controversial enough, the IBAMA chief then suggested that indigenous tribes which stand in the way of progress should be dealt with harshly.Australian reporter Allison Langdon recently confronted Trennepohl following his decision as head of IBAMA to approve construction of the Belo Monte dam, a controversial project which would destroy 121,600 acres of rainforest and displace nearly 50,000 indigenous people that live there. Prior to Trennepohl taking office, IBAMA's former president chose to resign rather than give in to political pressure to green-light the dam. Clearly, Trennepohl has no intention of letting the environment stand in the way of progress. But perhaps what's more shocking, is his apparent willingness to violate the human rights of native peoples. In what Trennepohl believed to be a private moment, he made a disturbing statement seeming to indicate that indigenous Amazon tribes could be mistreated. "You have the Aborigines there [in Australia]. You don't respect them," Trennepohl told Langdon. "So you're going to do to the Indians what we did to the Aborigines?" she asked. "Yes. Yes. Yes," he said. Check out the 60 Minutes segment, including Langdon's interview with Trennepohl (which appears around the 12 minute mark), to judge for yourself what he may have meant by that. Subsequently, Trennepohl was contacted by the Brazilian newspaper Folha to clarify his remarks. He said that he was caught off guard by the 'aggressive' reporter's questioning, adding that IBAMA's function was indeed to "minimize the impacts when a project is licensed," but that any project whose impact can't be minimized is rejected. Regardless of whether the head of Brazil's environmental protection agency misspoke about his role in caring for the environment or dealing respectfully with indigenous groups, IBAMA's actions speak louder than any errant word. But standing up to interests lobbying for a massive dam in the middle of the Amazon, even if unpopular, is the job of such an agency. If Trennepohl, as President of IBAMA can't offer a sensible argument for preservation from within the government, what chance do NGOs have? Sadly, their biggest advocate may be no advocate at all. Perhaps Brazilian blogger Roberto Malvezzi put it best when he wrote: "Finally someone in power is honest with their statements." |
Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 12:48
Thats what I HATE about Brazil!! Its the primitive mindset! You step foot in Brazil, and be ready to be stepping back to the ..... 50's. The viewpoint, perspective, mindset, and mentality are not 2012. They are around the 1950s for most Brazilians. For some, it would be around 1300. For some, it is 2012. For some, it is 2050. (These are the well traveled, well connected, well educated, well off, globally aware Brazilians). Even in the cities, there is a mindset from the 1950s. There are hordes of miserable, uneducated people coming in from the rural countryside to the favelas in the cities, with a mindset from the 1300s. And yet Brasil e o pais do futuro. Yeah, a future that NEVER comes. The governments protectionist policies dont help. You could free up a lot of economy if you just dropped the taxes on imported electronics. What a difference that would make! Then maybe Brazil could catch up with the world! And focus on improving education and infrastructure. Instead, Brazil is an export economy exporting soy, corn, coffee, oranges, beef, sugar, raw materials! Oh my goodness how primitive. |
Posted By: Amsterdam
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 12:56
|
Hi Grantham How long have you been here? It looks like all the gringoes are going through the same 'Baptism of Fire' that i went through blimmey and things were really backward afew years ago. The Cachacas still flowing in the streets and being bartered though which is what keeps the wheels turning i guess |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 16:19
There's nothing wrong into exporting agricultural goods per se. What has always been wrong is how our country fails to use the land properly to be more productive, and diversification of goods. And well, about poor, uneducated people... can you blame them for their mindset? If I were born there, I'd probably think just like them. If you were born there, the same would apply to you. The only way to change this is giving them access to education. We can't expect people that were raised in shanty towns to behave as if they graduated in Oxford. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 16:35
I never said I blame them. I certainly don't want to have them as my neighbors. Just as I don't want right-wing jerks as my neighbors, nor gringo sex tourists! Ick! Brazil is certainly wealthy enough to educate them...no excuses! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 17:45
Now change that to "I don't want a poor, black neighbor from Brooklyn as my neighbor! Ick!" |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 18:34
If you are RACIST please don't spread that around this board. I never said anything about race. If you are an ignorant, intolerant, nationalist, closed-minded person, I don't care what the COLOR of your skin is, I don't want you as my neighbor! Megabyte, get over yourself. I don't fit into your stereotype of racist Americans. Maybe you should look into the mirror on that one! I never said anything about race! Yet, it popped into your head! Ooops! I guess that reveals something about the way you think! :-) |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 18:57
I think you got the point. Basically, you're saying you don't want "poor, uneducated" people as your neighbors. That's not prejudice. But when it is about color it is prejudice? So it's not ok to be biased agaist color, but it's absolutely ok to be biased against social status? |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 19:38
I totally understand where you are coming from. My whole life I preached what you are saying! Seriously! UNTIL I MOVED TO BRAZIL. Then I realized, there is no point living in places where people are ignorant. It's just unpleasant. I'm not a self-righteous person. I'm not responsible for changing their minds about Americans, for example, and it's not pleasant to live amidst people who are closed-minded, xenophobic, racist, nationalist, etc. Hence, I am going to seek out places with people like me! Pro-diversity, anti-nationalist, pro-community, hopefully with a lack of sex tourists/drug dealers/ etc! Last time I checked, everyone who can read has access to all sorts of information. I'm tired of hearing excuses for why people are ignorant ONLY WHEN THEY ARE BRAZILIAN! Hicks are hicks wherever you go. I don't feel sorry for Brazilian hicks: they are often slightly browner in skin color, slightly farther left on the political spectrum, but they are equally as ignorant and closed-minded as the American hicks I cannot stand! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 21:01
You said you preached what I preached until you moved to Brazil. And yet, I was born here, and I live only a few meters away from people much poorer than me. What is the difference between you and me, cara0910? |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 22:04
I realized that I don't really give a crap about xenophobic/ignorant/football-watching losers! Who said ANYTHING about being poor? Typical BRAZILIAN! You think everything is related to poverty. Some of the absolute WORST people in the world are the snobby, arrogant, run-you-over, full-of-themselves, born into money cariocas! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 22:13
I wouldn't say everything, but a bad education system, a poor health system, bad sanitation, illnesses that are usually trivial to heal killing people, etc... usually are. |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 22:28
|
@Megabyte I have lived among very impoverished people who I loved. They loved me too. They weren't ignorant at all. And they were very religious, and I'm an atheist. They weren't American either. They accepted me as a person, didn't care that I didn't believe in their god, welcomed me into their community, allowed me to live slightly differently from themselves as they knew I was from a far off place...
Back to Brazil. I met some of the most ignorant, pig-headed, arrogant people I have met in traveling 5 continents! They were mostly full of themselves and how GREAT RIO IS! They are completely uninterested in learning about anything outside of their city, as why would they be, everybody knows Rio is the center of the earth!
The rich, the poor, they were all pretty nauseating. I found only 1 in 100 people had any interest in treating me like a person. Everyone received me like a tourist, sex tourist, "americano filho da puta" etc. It was AWFUL. That's what Rio is LIKE. A lot of gringoes ignore it or just don't let it bother them. That's cool! But I would never want to live there. And I wouldn't blame those views and behaviors on poverty. They are unrelated to poverty. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 22:37
Well, how were you received in other cities of Rio de Janeiro (state?) |
Posted By: cara0910
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 22:41
People are USUALLY friendly. It's like this. The traveled are often full of themselves and anti-American, the Brazilian elite. The rest are usually pretty nice, but they offer little in terms of conversation as the average level of education is quite low. Furthermore, they often are incapable of relating to a foreigner in any way. So, not much to see there! I can hang out with yokels and snobs in the US, no need to go to Brazil to do that! Plus, none of the problems where I live! Plenty of countries with beaches out there! |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 22:51
Well, it seems you say you've found out that people outside Rio are usually friendly, but don't offer much in terms of conversation. I'm not exactly sure about what you mean, but sometimes I can take life sessons from a low-wage security guard. Even when they don't say "what's the meaning of life," the way they say things tells a lot about their world and reality. |
Posted By: Gringo.Floripa
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 23:22
|
Interesting, the convo Mega and Cara are having between each other (and not just in this thread). Almost Sybil-like... split personalities of the same troll.  ------------- I might bark, but I don't bite. (trolls, sock puppets, Brasil-bashers, and "Joined:Today" persons too lazy to use the Search function excluded; cry babies too) |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 25 April 2012 at 23:48
Could that be because we are not the same person? What would be point of writing something only to defeat myself? Isn't that a... waste of time? And "Sybil-like?" What do you mean? By the way, if you're writing that thinking about how fast I reply to him, it is because there is something called "email notification," so I get notified whenever anyone replies to a post I want. Look around when you write a post yourself. |
Posted By: jacare
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 01:51
didn't that movie have an end? ------------- Em rio de piranha jacaré nada de costas. |
Posted By: Gringo.Floripa
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 10:25
Yes... and it's an ending I hope will be repeated here! ------------- I might bark, but I don't bite. (trolls, sock puppets, Brasil-bashers, and "Joined:Today" persons too lazy to use the Search function excluded; cry babies too) |
Posted By: Gringodude
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 10:35
Wow, they are totally similar!!! ------------- Keeping the BrazilianLifestyle "Have a great day everyone" - Ray "You know who you are, now go and reflect!" - Esprit |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 10:59
If you believe so much we are two sides of the same coin, I challenge you on a coin toss. Basically, the admin will trace cara0910 and my IP address and will analyze if they are identical. Heads: we have the same ip addresses. Both of our accounts are banned. Tails: we have different ip addresses. You are banned instead. What do you think? |
Posted By: Gringo.Floripa
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 11:52
Hey Einstein... ever heard of proxies?!? ------------- I might bark, but I don't bite. (trolls, sock puppets, Brasil-bashers, and "Joined:Today" persons too lazy to use the Search function excluded; cry babies too) |
Posted By: Grantham
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 11:58
Life lessons from a security guard??!!?? You've got a lot to lose buddy. I fail to see how any security guard can give you a life lesson. Usually you learn that on your own, through trial and error and experience. There seem to be security guards on every corner in Brazil. It's funny how the police don't do their jobs right. |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 12:34
Why, of course I have. An admin can detect if a connection comes from a proxy or if it comes from a real ISP. Didn't you know that? |
Posted By: Megabyte
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 12:36
Well, it's all about critical thinking... you could get a life lesson study ants if you really want to. But if you can't think out of the box, not even reading anything about Mother Theresa would help. |