Why I've chosen to not work illegally in Brazil
Printed From: Gringoes.com
Category: Brazil
Forum Name: Finding Work
Forum Discription: Seeking and offering jobs in Brazil
URL: http://www.gringoes.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14166
Printed Date: 22 May 2013 at 19:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Why I've chosen to not work illegally in Brazil
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Subject: Why I've chosen to not work illegally in Brazil
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 07:30
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I've never worked without a visa. Even in Morocco, where a work visa is a cash deal, I was still legal. Here in Brazil, however, the bureaucracy involved with getting a work visa is so complicated that most English teachers are working illegally. This is why I'm not going to do that here: I don't need the job that bad. Unlike previous jobs, I have a support network here. I've got an apartment that's paid for. I don't need to work in order to live here because things are so cheap. I'm free to pursue other interests. By not taking full-time employment, I'm free to look at other, more diverse, options. Taking Portuguese classes is appealing, and not something I could do with a 25 hour a week load. I don't want to put my fiancee at risk. This weekend, we're going to a cartorio to put in papers to get married. We'll be married next month. If I get an immigration violation on my record, it could put my application for permanencia in jeopardy. That's not something I'm willing to do. I don't want to risk my family's money. If I get thrown in a Brasilian prison, my family isn't going to let me stay. They will forward the government whatever ransom they ask for. First they'll take all my money, then they start going into their pockets. That's not something I'm willing to let happen. I don't trust the Brasilian government. I'll restate this: If the Brasilian government decides to "crack down" on illegal teachers (as I've seen in Korea), they know they can ask for anything they want. They could put a "bounty" on English teachers equal to half a year's salary, knowing they could get it from me as a ransom to be let out of jail (and considering most English teachers here are only getting paid $7 an hour or less, that's not much). It would cost them nothing to bankrupt my family, and there's no guarantee they wouldn't deport me after. I don't trust my Brasilian employer. Many South American employers, in an effort to avoid taxes, give all employees a "minimum wage contract" that allows them to pay taxes on a fraction of their employees' actual salary. Besides being massively illegal, these employees are giving up a lot of protections afforded to them by Brasilian labor law. These agreements are largely kept secret for this reason. I can work legally! ...just not for the Brazilians. Every day, there are jobs available teaching English online. These jobs usually have customers in Asia, and payment processing in the US or Canada, and wire the money to your account. Working one of those companies is like a businessman coming to Brazil and answering an e-mail. This is the route I'm probably going to take, as soon as I finish enjoying my time off. So that's why I've chosen not to work illegally. Too much could go wrong, and I don't want to get anyone else involved. It's time to be a responsible, law-abiding citizen, and quietly enjoy my retirement. |
Replies:
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 07:53
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yeah, the prisons here are filled with English teachers. Better to play it safe. ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:06
Don't hate. "Crackdowns" like this happen in bad economies. I've seen it in Korea. And I don't need an immigration violation on my record when I file for permanencia. |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:11
Not hating at all. Came to Brazil to retire and teach English online? ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:35
Sounds a bit like a nazi country here...
Thrown in Prison? That only happens if you don't pay child support. Here in Brazil, if you work illegally, you are entitled to all labor (carteira) benefits, including vacation and xmas gratification, according to the TST. The company that hires you will get a hefty fine though.
You're so funny. The government cracking down on Illegal English teachers, and then bankrupting your family
Until they are fired and go to labor court to clean out the employer
Vivid imagination
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Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:37
You won't be doing the violating. According to the constitution and Brazilian labor law, you would be a person that is being exploited.. |
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:40
You laugh, but everything I wrote about, I've heard happening in Korea. The Brazilians are a little more enlightened, but at the same time, if I don't have to take the risk... What do you think about the "minimum wage contract" issue? That can't possibly be legal... |
Posted By: toolio
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:41
Imagine all those fine citizens exiting prison with excellent English language skills, thanks to their imprisoned teachers. It might do more to further English as a second language than any other possibility. ------------- I don't need to be right; I just don't want to be wrong. |
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:48
I can't find the (I assume) VERY embellished story of the illegal teacher in Korea who spent 2 weeks in immigration jail because he couldn't get a hold of anyone from home to pay his fine and get him out. Watery kimchi chiggae was all he ate. Though in the morning, it had meat in it!  |
Posted By: hpeak13
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 08:52
in.......Korea ------------- We all have to decide for ourselves how much sin we can live with. -Enoch Nucky Thompson |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 09:22
in Korea.
No it isn't, just keep the receipts. Think of it as a thrift-box. When you swap jobs, sue them. They'll have to pay double
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Posted By: Twirly
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 09:58
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How is Korea relevant to Brazil?
Chill Tark and enjoy the ride. You also need to do something about your way to vivid imagination. Anyway, you made me laugh early on a Monday
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Posted By: toolio
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 10:03
Perhaps this phrase will become the new "Luíza está no Canadá" (For those living under a rock for the past week or so, just Google it.) ------------- I don't need to be right; I just don't want to be wrong. |
Posted By: Gringo.Floripa
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 10:05
...and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o - dance teachers .... ------------- I might bark, but I don't bite. (trolls, sock puppets, Brasil-bashers, and "Joined:Today" persons too lazy to use the Search function excluded; cry babies too) |
Posted By: toolio
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 10:08
That is hilarious. Thanks. ------------- I don't need to be right; I just don't want to be wrong. |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 10:09
Ela já voltou! |
Posted By: toolio
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 10:32
"Você ri, mas tudo que eu escrevi sobre, eu ouvi acontecendo na Coréia" ------------- I don't need to be right; I just don't want to be wrong. |
Posted By: OldMiller
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 10:58
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Why do you keep comparing Brazil to Korea? I can hardly imagine two less similar countries, in many ways. ------------- "Curious that we elect incompetent politicians, then complain they're incompetent. Perhaps what we all need is more mirrors." - Neil Degrasse Tyson |
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 10:58
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Tark, just wait until you are married and THEN you can apply for the work permit. I think you are a little paranoid. And yes, if you are working illegally, they can and will give you deportation orders (I've seen it before) But in a month or so, you will have nothing to worry about. I don't know why you have to try to "justify" yourself on this forum. ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: Esprit
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 11:00
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Tark, are we talking about North or South Korea? ------------- Esprit |
Posted By: Bubbles
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 11:07
..apart from electricals and/or any foreign goods, food, going out, cars and associated costs, and public transport.
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Posted By: toolio
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 11:14
Exactly. As long as you walk everywhere, don't intend to watch television, don't need a computer and intend to eat only oranges and bananas Brasil is a pretty inexpensive place. Oh, yes, and as long as you don't get headaches that require the purchase of aspirin or Advil that can be 10 times the cost in other countries. And don't even get me started on vitamins or ginkgo biloba.  ------------- I don't need to be right; I just don't want to be wrong. |
Posted By: OldMiller
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 11:25
------------- "Curious that we elect incompetent politicians, then complain they're incompetent. Perhaps what we all need is more mirrors." - Neil Degrasse Tyson |
Posted By: toolio
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 11:30
You mean you don't like Raul Gil? I find it amazing that someone who looks as though he died and was embalmed a couple of decades ago can stand up for so many hours at a time.------------- I don't need to be right; I just don't want to be wrong. |
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 12:08
South. I'm American, they don't let us into North Korea. I understand though, that I kinda came in on the tail end of things there. I understand things were a hoot during the Noh administration... |
Posted By: 3casas
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 13:20
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Tark, this is sooooo different from Asia here. Sven has a good point- you would be seen as exploited. Things are not what we expect here (i say we as an american). You aren't illegal, you're "irregular". Nobody is deported. The "migras" aren't going to come and haul anyone out. After living in Asia for some years, it was hard for me to get used to as well. I mean, if you don't want to work irregularly, then fine too. Study, enjoy your time here. ------------- |
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 13:37
It's not so cut and dry. On my first visit to the PF, ever, there was a case on the now-retired PF's desk. I asked him about it because I glanced at one of the papers and it had a traditionally gringo name. He said it was a gringo on a tourist visa was caught giving classes in a school. He said the school was going to fined heavily and the gringo would be "deported." I don't know what the means, if they did it "American style" or just gave him a notice to leave the country... Yes, and for the record, I almost forgot, I was actually there myself "to be deported". Someone got pi$$ed off at me and called the Federal Police.. but haha, I was safe. I got out of it, and I've been here ever since. To this day, I don't know who it was. Either it was someone in my apartment building or someone from a local buteca who just didn't like me. So don't say it CAN'T happen because they came after me. He's just much safer by waiting until he gets his documents to starting. I don't think it's responsible to egg him on to work since there is some risk to it, maybe less than in Asia, but there is still risk. ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 14:02
They give you a week or so to haul ass. If you don't, they'll pick you up and put you on a plane.
Of course it can, if someone tells on you. If you where caught working, and they didn't pay what they would have an obligation to with Carteira Assinada, the labor suit would be a good base to ask for a Habeas Corpus preventivo, at least until you got your money
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Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 16:45
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Sven, I believe "American style" is throwing the person out that minute. I wasn't the person caught working. But maybe someone who reads this can maybe save deportation if something similar happens. In my case, someone was probably envious and reported me. That list if people was QUITE large, which included my wife's-- girlfriend at the time -- friends, half of which gave me the look that they wanted to jump my bones  , people from the bars, people in the apartment building, and many more people. I never discussed the visa issue openly, but I bet someone just called How many envious people do you know? Nuff said!This is why you guys can say to relax, but this really happened to me. I had totally forgotten about it until I started writing the second post on this thread, and I though "hey wait a minute.. this happened to me!" ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: IrishNatal
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 19:07
well done N Korea.  I must add it to my "must visit" list!
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Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 24 January 2012 at 11:19
Well, it totally depends on your preference. Pyongyang:  Seoul:  YAY YAY DISNEYLAND STREETS NEON LIGHTS SMELL OF DDEOKBOKKI SOUTH KOREA IS BEST KOREA!!! |
Posted By: Esprit
Date Posted: 24 January 2012 at 11:30
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Wow! Bendy buses and everything! Not sure I want to smell donkey bonky though. ------------- Esprit |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 24 January 2012 at 12:02
They way I see it, in Pyongyang everyone drives a mercedes or a beamer, and in South Corea, they all walk! |
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 24 January 2012 at 20:22
They walk and they walk through miles of concrete and neon, up cobblestone alleys past rivers of vomit, dreary leavings of the souls and the hearts of the room salons, noraebangs, and whorehouses. There were times I would lie awake at night and wish for KJ1's Korea. |
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 25 January 2012 at 07:43
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There's a funny documentary by a Polock (I don't know his name) from when he went to North Korea. It's quite funny, and I believe it comes in 12 parts. He poked fun at how there are ZERO traffic problems in North Korea. The North Korea government is actually quite smart. They are KINGS/royalty in their own country AND they get the USA and South Korea to pay their food and other bills for them!!! ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 25 January 2012 at 07:52
I was going to try to say something witty about this, but all I'm thinking is, no sh*t. They're geniuses, I would work for them tomorrow if they would take my fiancee as a pair. |
Posted By: expt2233
Date Posted: 25 January 2012 at 08:16
Totally. Same with the Nazis. I heard they offered great a benefits package.
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Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 25 January 2012 at 09:17
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"the supreme leader" has it really good, but I don't know about the actual people who live there and pay for the extravagant lifesyles of the people in power. Go ahead and take a girlfriend/wife to the PRK. If she is hot, she will most likely end up in one of the supreme leader's love brigades I think that the US is repressive and brainwashes Americans to be "sheeple" but I think it 1.000x worse in North Korea. ------------- - ** Just sayin' ** ** Make lemonaid out of lemons. ** ** Trolls get old...** |
Posted By: sven
Date Posted: 25 January 2012 at 09:20
I hear they are born brainwashed
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Posted By: rissarawr
Date Posted: 04 February 2012 at 22:00
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Wow, so degrading on America. Yet I see almost everything here is usually American. American tv, American music, American clothes, etc. I'm not tooting my own horn, being an American or saying we are perfect. I was just surprised to see this love with our culture when I got here. I was expecting to be absorbed in Brazilian culture and now everyone wants to speak to me in english, play me horrible American music and point out every McDonald's we see.
I'm not saying America is without flaws, but I do sometimes long for the days of orderly chaos, semi-bad drivers, and politicans at least trying to hide the corruption. Tark, when you file for the RNE make sure to get a letter from the PF saying you can work. Then you can go get your working card. Don't worry about the crap they are giving you, I waited until I started the RNE to work too. If you can afford it, there is no harm in waiting. Just be prepared to keep yourself busy. |
Posted By: Fluzao65
Date Posted: 26 March 2012 at 11:22
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Yeah, they can't even afford to keep the murderers, child molesters, and rapists in prison here! It's alot more likely you will be held somewhere in a Favela for ransom! Make sure you tell the "less fortunate"Brasilians walkin around in the street that your family has cash! ------------- Lovin Rio |
Posted By: TarkInBrazil
Date Posted: 26 March 2012 at 11:49
Well, thanks for your opinion!  |