Gringoes.com: Troops Deployed in Rio

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finance
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Joined: 02 September 2004
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:22

The Rio favelas just got out of hand. These operations should have been in place since the 80's, when the drug lords didn't have as much power, control, guns and money. Beter yet, they should have been urbanized and the crooks put in prison (what prison is another story, 'cause they are all full)
Now, getting in Rocinha, Vidigal, etc.. is a can of worms.
Obviously, the drug groups do not wnat a heavy confrontation, but if they did, they have enough granades, fusis, bombs and ammunition to keep the police away for a while.
It got too bad too fast, now it's out of hand...

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finance
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:31

Russ,
The military is constantly in the morros and favelas. They usually go in to look for a particulat traficante, or to do a drug/guns bust operation.

As far as a solid occupation, I believe you are right. The latest was a couple of years back.

The military may be relatively well trained for war affairs, but not for large drug/crime operations. However, they are the only entity in brazil that can provide enough men and artillery to do the job.

Ask any policemen if they would like to climb one of those favelas with a 38 caliber and 8 bullets in their belt. They'll say they have a family to raise and laugh at you... It's a death wish...

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Russell
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:34

It's a shame that more effort isn't put into training and arming them better, although fighting in the slum must be a nightmare (as you say).

Perhaps now would be a time to get rid of the drug gangs, before things get worse again.

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finance
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:51

When you have an underpaid police force and plenty of drug money to go around for bribes and corruption, its tough...!

The problem started waaaaay back, when simple needy families started taking over pieces of land, and the polulation kept growing an growing....

Government should have done more in the way of urbanization, stablishing land ownership, schools, etc..
Now, its almost like a lawless country within a country. They have a well armed "militia", their own rules, and lords are protected through the fear they've planted in all the residents.

Now, the population of Rocinha, for example, is larger than MOST that of other state capitals in Brazil, and that's a big problem...

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Russell
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:55

Yep, I get the feeling that those in the slum, good or bad, have an instant distrust of the government and prefer to support their fellow brethren. But after some of the ways the government have treated them I guess it's no great surprise... it's a curious mix of day-to-day life and war, and yet some people at least seem to be happy there.

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finance
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 13:12

It sure is an interesting dynamic. I knew some folks that lived in some favelas in BH (Papagaio, Cabana, etc...). Sure, they always worked in hope of one day, to be able to live in better conditions.
With that being sad, however, unless their wishes and actions were contrary to the ones in power, they were fairly well protected and lived relativelly happy. There were no worries with assaltos, thefts, and they always had many good neighbors to fall back on. They would always hear about some of the criminals leaving the favela daily to rob and do their things elsewhere, but they would never commit any wrongdoing in their own hoods.

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cariocaguy
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Joined: 25 February 2006
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 17:26

I wonder what triggered this reaction. Military armaments being stolen is common place in Rio (and throughout Brazil). There is more to this than meets the eye. They did not invade Rocinha (the largest and most famous). I'm wondering if the chefao in Rocinha has someone in his pocket and this is really just a way of sending a message to Commando Vermelho ( a large drug gang) to stay out of Rocinha. For the last couple of months there have been skirmishes in Rocinha between drug gangs as the C.V. has tried to take over the drug trade there.

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Rupert
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Joined: 14 February 2006
Location: Brazil
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Posted: 07 March 2006 at 18:53

Do you think the drug gangs own the army here like in Mexico?

Do they have a national guard here like in America with all the troops being local or do they bring them in from the interior which would get rid of any corruption issues.

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g32141
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Joined: 27 July 2004
Location: Brazil
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Posted: 08 March 2006 at 02:16

One of the favela drug bosses had a police helicopter pilot in his pocket and was captured at the home of the guy.

A few years back some guys were wiretapped and busted trying to get SAMs to shoot down police helicopters.

People will always want to get high so you might as well give it to them. Legalize the stuff and maybe a lot of these problems might go away.

As long as the drug lords have cash they can basically get anyone to work for them or to turn a blind eye.

I have been told that some people were actually asked by thugs to join the police. I did not believe it at first but now nothing here surpises me.

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Rupert
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Posted: 08 March 2006 at 12:03

Yeh but if you legalise drugs then u legalise the drug lords and they will get into politics etc wish is a very bad thing! (Like what happened with Pablo Escobar).

I think its an unwinnable battle but one that must still be fought

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Living in Brazil
Gringoes.com : Brazil : Living in Brazil

Author	Message
finance Senior Member Joined: 02 September 2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 345	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:22
	The Rio favelas just got out of hand. These operations should have been in place since the 80's, when the drug lords didn't have as much power, control, guns and money. Beter yet, they should have been urbanized and the crooks put in prison (what prison is another story, 'cause they are all full) Now, getting in Rocinha, Vidigal, etc.. is a can of worms. Obviously, the drug groups do not wnat a heavy confrontation, but if they did, they have enough granades, fusis, bombs and ammunition to keep the police away for a while. It got too bad too fast, now it's out of hand...
	IP Logged

finance Senior Member Joined: 02 September 2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 345	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:31
	Russ, The military is constantly in the morros and favelas. They usually go in to look for a particulat traficante, or to do a drug/guns bust operation. As far as a solid occupation, I believe you are right. The latest was a couple of years back. The military may be relatively well trained for war affairs, but not for large drug/crime operations. However, they are the only entity in brazil that can provide enough men and artillery to do the job. Ask any policemen if they would like to climb one of those favelas with a 38 caliber and 8 bullets in their belt. They'll say they have a family to raise and laugh at you... It's a death wish...
	IP Logged

Russell Gringoes.com Guru Joined: 28 July 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4945	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:34
	It's a shame that more effort isn't put into training and arming them better, although fighting in the slum must be a nightmare (as you say). Perhaps now would be a time to get rid of the drug gangs, before things get worse again.
	IP Logged

finance Senior Member Joined: 02 September 2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 345	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:51
	When you have an underpaid police force and plenty of drug money to go around for bribes and corruption, its tough...! The problem started waaaaay back, when simple needy families started taking over pieces of land, and the polulation kept growing an growing.... Government should have done more in the way of urbanization, stablishing land ownership, schools, etc.. Now, its almost like a lawless country within a country. They have a well armed "militia", their own rules, and lords are protected through the fear they've planted in all the residents. Now, the population of Rocinha, for example, is larger than MOST that of other state capitals in Brazil, and that's a big problem...
	IP Logged

Russell Gringoes.com Guru Joined: 28 July 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4945	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 12:55
	Yep, I get the feeling that those in the slum, good or bad, have an instant distrust of the government and prefer to support their fellow brethren. But after some of the ways the government have treated them I guess it's no great surprise... it's a curious mix of day-to-day life and war, and yet some people at least seem to be happy there.
	IP Logged

finance Senior Member Joined: 02 September 2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 345	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 13:12
	It sure is an interesting dynamic. I knew some folks that lived in some favelas in BH (Papagaio, Cabana, etc...). Sure, they always worked in hope of one day, to be able to live in better conditions. With that being sad, however, unless their wishes and actions were contrary to the ones in power, they were fairly well protected and lived relativelly happy. There were no worries with assaltos, thefts, and they always had many good neighbors to fall back on. They would always hear about some of the criminals leaving the favela daily to rob and do their things elsewhere, but they would never commit any wrongdoing in their own hoods.
	IP Logged

cariocaguy Senior Member Joined: 25 February 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 208	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 17:26
	I wonder what triggered this reaction. Military armaments being stolen is common place in Rio (and throughout Brazil). There is more to this than meets the eye. They did not invade Rocinha (the largest and most famous). I'm wondering if the chefao in Rocinha has someone in his pocket and this is really just a way of sending a message to Commando Vermelho ( a large drug gang) to stay out of Rocinha. For the last couple of months there have been skirmishes in Rocinha between drug gangs as the C.V. has tried to take over the drug trade there.
	IP Logged

Rupert Senior Member Joined: 14 February 2006 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 717	Posted: 07 March 2006 at 18:53
	Do you think the drug gangs own the army here like in Mexico? Do they have a national guard here like in America with all the troops being local or do they bring them in from the interior which would get rid of any corruption issues.
	IP Logged

g32141 Groupie Joined: 27 July 2004 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 95	Posted: 08 March 2006 at 02:16
	One of the favela drug bosses had a police helicopter pilot in his pocket and was captured at the home of the guy. A few years back some guys were wiretapped and busted trying to get SAMs to shoot down police helicopters. People will always want to get high so you might as well give it to them. Legalize the stuff and maybe a lot of these problems might go away. As long as the drug lords have cash they can basically get anyone to work for them or to turn a blind eye. I have been told that some people were actually asked by thugs to join the police. I did not believe it at first but now nothing here surpises me.
	IP Logged

Rupert Senior Member Joined: 14 February 2006 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 717	Posted: 08 March 2006 at 12:03
	Yeh but if you legalise drugs then u legalise the drug lords and they will get into politics etc wish is a very bad thing! (Like what happened with Pablo Escobar). I think its an unwinnable battle but one that must still be fought
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Topic: Troops Deployed in Rio
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