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Victoria2005
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Quote Victoria2005 Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 12:19
Well it's a sad day here in Porto Alegre. Disapprove
 
 
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supermary
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Quote supermary Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 12:22
Originally posted by Gringos.com

If I am not mistaken the SP city airport is not for the faint hearted. When I land there, I feel nervous like I'm landing on a city street. The SP international airport has huge runways and much safer overall.  I think it could have been avoided but I don't know all the details.


I feel perfectly safe in Congonhas. Maybe it is because I am so used to it.

I live close to Congonhas and my bus went by there on the way to work this morning. They were still putting out the fire, parts of the plane were still on the road, and there were tons of medics and firemen and rescue teams all over the place, and some cranes too. The smell was awful. The building turned into what looked like a giant hole in the wall. All that was left standing were the exterior walls. The rest was bare and the floor was just a bunch of debris. The actual airport was full of TV crews and what seemed to be curious people. This was all at around 9.30am/10am.

And apparently there were 186 people on the plane,  and no one knows how many people from TAM and the gas station and other innocent bystanders were around. 3 people were removed from the wreckage alive but they didn't make it. The rest were already dead when the medics got to them it seems.
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Quote jamie1 Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 12:45
my heart goes out to the familys that lost loved ones.Unhappy
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Quote sven Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 13:00
Originally posted by supermary


I feel perfectly safe in Congonhas. Maybe it is because I am so used to it.


I´m quite used to it too, just as Santos Dumont. I´d say Congonhas is "safer" than Santos Dumont as it´s principal runway is almost 600 meters longer. Even the second runway at Congonhas is longer than the principal runway in Santos Dumont.


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Quote supermary Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 13:36
http://fotos.noticias.bol.uol.com.br/imagensdodia/20070718_tam_album.jhtm?abrefoto=1

some pictures.
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Quote supermary Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 13:38
Originally posted by sven

Originally posted by supermary


I feel perfectly safe in Congonhas. Maybe it is because I am so used to it.


I´m quite used to it too, just as Santos Dumont. I´d say Congonhas is "safer" than Santos Dumont as it´s principal runway is almost 600 meters longer. Even the second runway at Congonhas is longer than the principal runway in Santos Dumont.




Isn't Santos Dumont also the airport that if you go a bit too far off you fall into the water? I'd rather land on the street than in the middle of the ocean. Of course though, I prefer not missing the runway.

But maybe that is just me.
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Quote sven Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 14:35
Yeah that´s Santos Dumont. I prefer the water. Airplanes do float, our at least should float. It´s not in the middle of the ocean. Depending on from where you land, you might actually get off at the beach. I guess if this had happened here, there would be survivors. I remember a plane in Washington dropping in the Potomac River that had quite a few survivors.
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Quote Russell Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 15:29
Originally posted by Edumen

São Paulo Congonhas airport is not any more dangerous than many airports around the world.


I agree that there are probably various airports that are more tricky than others. I was talking to a pilot today who in turn had attended a briefing from a Brazilian pilot which discussed Congonhas. The Brazilian pilot said it was affectionately referred to as "Cajones", as it needed a big pair of 'em to land there.

Anyway, a terrible thing to happen, and let's hope that some sensible resolution(s) result from it.


Edited by Russell - 19 July 2007 at 04:33
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Edumen
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Quote Edumen Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 18:33
Originally posted by sven

Ed, Sorry for the loss of your friend. Any idea why this might have happened? AFIK, in most cases it´s a whole pandemonium of factors that contribute to an accident like this. The asphalt being "new" usually causes it to be very slippery, especially with moderate rain.


Thanks Sven !

I will try to speculate on what might have happened yesterday evening, based on my 32 years of operating at Congonhas. Like I said on my previous post, there was moderate rain at the time. The approach was performed to runway 35Left. It is common with that kind of weather to encounter Wind Shear (microbursts) on short final (just before landing) at that particular runway. I believe there was a sudden loss of airspeed and a correction was made for that condition, but almost instantaneously there was a large increase in airspeed. That's what wind shear does to an airplane: dramatic changes in airspeed, from high to low, to the end of the show. The airplane became destabilized at the most critical phase of flight. Due to the airspeed increase, their plane gained altitude, became high, so touchdown was probably performed beyond the standard first 300 meters, compounded by higher than normal landing speed. I believe that after initial touchdown, they realized that there wouldn't be enough available runway to stop the airplane, so a "go around" was attempted; in layman terms, they tried to fly it off the runway. For them to have crashed where they did, they were no where near the deceleration process. For me to speculate on how this "go around" was attempted would be going to far on my part.
In regards to Congonhas being a "challenging" airport for pilots, in my opinion, I really don't think so. I just never let my guard down, specially when landing to the north (runways 35Left and 35Right - the short one). Since some have touched on the subject of "scary airports", I will list 3 in order of difficulty, that get my adrenalin flowing: Telluride (Colorado), Aspen (Colorado) and Santos Dumont, when landing to the north, overflying Botafogo. An important thing to remember, as a pilot, when departing Santos Dumont airport, is - should you have a failure of some kind during takeoff, remember to FLY the airplane, or else you'll have a big rock stuck in the nose of the airplane.

Ed

Edited by Edumen - 18 July 2007 at 18:36
Você sabe o que é caviar ? Nunca vi,nem comi,eu só ouço falar ! ZP
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Victoria2005
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Quote Victoria2005 Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 19:34
thanks for your insights on what may have happened. its always better to here speculation from someone who actually knows about the subject that they are talking about rather than "grapevine chat".
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