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child support, brazil

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sven View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 14:39
Originally posted by Oaktree Oaktree wrote:


Does anyone know which law would apply? And does anyone know about this claim of 25-30% of my income? And if Brazilian law would apply, do they have any authority to force me?

The law (brazilian) merely provides that both parties are supposed to provide in the upbringing of the child equally. It does NOT provide a figure of 30%. However, according to a decision by the supreme court, the party that pays alimony may never pay more than 30% of his income. This 30% is usually only applied in cases where there are several children.

In principle they would have the means to force you due to a treaty. Obviously they could also put you in prison if you arrive here to visit the child.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 14:52
Originally posted by DUNGA DUNGA wrote:

I was just peripherally involved in such a case and the judge awarded 30%. The father had other children with another mother as well. I was told this was standard. They (father and daughter) are Brazilians living in Brazil. So I can see where A. got the figure.



Strange, I´ve never seen this. I pay less than 10%. If the guy has other children that would mean he pays 60%. Impossible. As I said, the STJ clearly states that the party paying child support may never pay more than 30%.


"para a manutenção dos filhos, os cônjuges separados judicialmente contribuirão na proporção de seus rendimentos" art. 1703 CC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 15:00
Originally posted by nevergoingback nevergoingback wrote:

If she were living in the UK you would have to pay 15% (standard rate for one child) - but only if your income is over £200 per week.   You should read the link posted above for the CSA about how to calculate your liability.  There is no mention of how the law is applied in your case as the CSA is only responsible for the UK.  A quick call to a family lawyer should answer your question about what rate would be levied by a Brazilian court but I am guessing it will not be more than what it would be in the UK (but if I was a good guesser I would be a lotto millionaire by now).


It depends a lot on the social status of the child in question. In the case of the lower incomes, the percentage is often higher than in the higher social classes since the magistrate have to concider the "needs" of the child, and we all know that kids are expensive. In his case, the best option would be to start a process in Brazilian court of "oferecimento de alimentos" in which he offers the amount he´s willing and able to pay. If that´s somewhere near the expectation of the judge that´s probably what he´s going to pay. Judges tend to be simpathetic to fathers that actually WANT to pay (which is definately NOT the rule in Brazil). Especially in his case, the judge being well aware that there isn´t much hope in coplying him to pay more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nevergoingback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 15:04
Good point - and let's not forget that an income in the UK is 3 or 4 times higher than it's Brazilian equivalent so a higher percentage than 15% for a UK based parent may not be appropriate or fair!  It may be the case that they would look at the pattern for his type of job and ask him to deliver a figure equivalent to 30% for the same type of salary in Brazil - which would be likely to be less than 15% of his UK salary.


Edited by nevergoingback - 11 December 2007 at 15:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUNGA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 15:16
Originally posted by sven sven wrote:

Impossible.

Well I wouldn’t say impossible because I was there at the forum and the kid got 30% ... now what the lawyer told me about that being standard ... sure, he could be full of it ... I imagine if there was support awarded for more than one child they might have to split the 30% ... It seemed pretty steep to me and I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes ... no sir!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nevergoingback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 15:22
My wife's father paid out 30% of his salary for an extra-marital camisinha quebrada! (one child ).  Now that he is retired that figure is also taken from his pension.  The child has some learning difficulties but nothing that requires additional help.


Edited by nevergoingback - 11 December 2007 at 15:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hcvan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2007 at 02:58
What happens when a child is born out of wedlock? Do either party has to pay for child support? I came across a child custody law website in Brazil (U.S. Department of State regarding foreign adoption) where it says that when the child is born out of wedlock, a legal guardianship goes automatically to the mother unless the father files for custody with a family court. I guess if this is the case, then the father of the child is not obligated to pay for child support unless the mother insists that he pays up or if the mother does not need the child support then the father is free from paying the support. Does this make sense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oaktree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2007 at 04:20
Hi Sven and others, thanks for your comments and feedback!

Question: I have never been involved in any court case and haven't even got a lawyer or anything like that. Is it possible to start this court case with 'oferecimento de alimentos' from the UK (consulate / ambassy?) or can that only be done from Brazil - which would be nearly impossible without some legal representative in Brazil I suppose... My income in the UK unfortunately doesn't allow me to go to Brazil, not for a court case - not even to visit my daughter whom I haven't seen for 2 years now...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oaktree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2007 at 04:24
'no proporcao de seus rendimentos' - so that means the judge would take account of A.'s income and property as well as mine I suppose?

Other question: even though we were not married we were living in a stable relationship, there is no denying about that. Apparently,according to Brazilian law 'living together in a stable relationship' is being treated with the same status as being married. Does that mean that after the separation, I would have had a right to 50% of her property? Fact is that I didn't have much personal assets (and what I had we spent on a sitio that we bought together) but she has a house in Sao Paulo from which she gets a monthly rent. Does that mean that in case this comes to court, I could demand half the value of her property in Sao Paulo?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nevergoingback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2007 at 04:39
Originally posted by hcvan hcvan wrote:

What happens when a child is born out of wedlock? Do either party has to pay for child support? I came across a child custody law website in Brazil (U.S. Department of State regarding foreign adoption) where it says that when the child is born out of wedlock, a legal guardianship goes automatically to the mother unless the father files for custody with a family court. I guess if this is the case, then the father of the child is not obligated to pay for child support unless the mother insists that he pays up or if the mother does not need the child support then the father is free from paying the support. Does this make sense?

In this case the mother could ask for child support if she wanted to (regardless of her wealth as the father has obligations) but if she did not want it from him she has the right not to accept.  If he offers child support then he is automatically entitled to visitation rights - this cannot be denied to him (by her, I don't mean by the court).


Edited by nevergoingback - 12 December 2007 at 05:00
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