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markphl
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Quote markphl Replybullet Topic: prenuptial after the fact?????
    Posted: 03 March 2007 at 05:44

 does  anyone have an answwer...

I am an american man that married a Brazilian woman. We signed a total asset seperation prenuptial contract written in english and notarized at U.S. consulate in Sao Paulo. But we married in Brazil with a "comunhao parcial de bens".

She is willing to sign any papers necessary to change this to total seperation of assets or some other legal & binding way of keeping money that "I" bring to Brazil as "MINE".

Please help me
e-mail:  markphl892@aol.com 
                

american guy married brazilian wife
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Mineiro_Alemão
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Quote Mineiro_Alemão Replybullet Posted: 03 March 2007 at 09:48
I´m not sure, but I guess the best would be that you go to the CARTÓRIO CIVIL where you married in Brazil and check with the people there how/what to do.

GOOD LUCK!

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Denise
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Quote Denise Replybullet Posted: 03 March 2007 at 11:53
I think you'll have to change the marriage contract to separação total de bens.
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John Vuckovich
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Quote John Vuckovich Replybullet Posted: 05 April 2007 at 21:22

Mark, a great question. I would like to know also.



Edited by John Vuckovich
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Russell
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Quote Russell Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2007 at 02:00
It's a good question. Presumably items that you buy together post-wedding are sold and split, and items you buy individually remain as that. Clearly everything before the wedding is also individual. I'd be interested to know for sure though, although I'm not sure what else it could be.
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MonicaB
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Quote MonicaB Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2007 at 07:55

HI

Separacao total de bens: whatever is in your name (doesn't matter is acquired before or after the wedding) remains yours in case of separation

Separacao parcial de bens: whatever was yours before the wedding remains yours, whatever you acquired after the wedding is shared between you and your partner n case of separation

Comunhao Universal de bens:  whatever is yours is also your partners (doesn't matter is acquired before or after the wedding)



Edited by MonicaB
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London Lad
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Quote London Lad Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2007 at 08:46

A very interesting question and one that came up in a conversation I had while I was in Brazil last time.

 

Now while my Portuguese isn’t great I got the idea that once you have lived together for two years what were your assets became joint assets, this is what I understood from a Brazilian solicitor, I also thought any agreement signed before a marriage was open to challenge in Brazilian courts.

 

I think if I were you I would get legal advice both in the USA and Brazil, we considered drawing up a contract but after advice I felt it wasn’t worth it if any such contract was able to be challenged later, we have children and I think that makes a very big difference to Brazilian courts who will and rightly so act in a manor that should protect any children.    

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Denise
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Quote Denise Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2007 at 23:57
Originally posted by London Lad

once you have lived together for two years what were your assets became joint assets, this is what I understood from a Brazilian solicitor, I also thought any agreement signed before a marriage was open to challenge in Brazilian courts.

  Yes and no. I think only the assets during the 'living together' phase can be disputed, in case of 'total separação de bens'. But if you're really serious about protecting assets, you may consider using a trust fund or setting a company up as asset's owner.

Originally posted by London Lad

I would get legal advice both in the USA and Brazil, we considered drawing up a contract but after advice I felt it wasn't worth it if any such contract was able to be challenged later, we have children and I think that makes a very big difference to Brazilian courts who will and rightly so act in a manor that should protect any children.

Child support is obligatory, whatever contract is signed. The couple's assets, it's a different story...

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London Lad
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Quote London Lad Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2007 at 09:12
Originally posted by Denise

Originally posted by London Lad

once you have lived together for two years what were your assets became joint assets, this is what I understood from a Brazilian solicitor, I also thought any agreement signed before a marriage was open to challenge in Brazilian courts.

  Yes and no. I think only the assets during the 'living together' phase can be disputed, in case of 'total separação de bens'. But if you're really serious about protecting assets, you may consider using a trust fund or setting a company up as asset's owner.

Originally posted by London Lad

I would get legal advice both in the USA and Brazil, we considered drawing up a contract but after advice I felt it wasn't worth it if any such contract was able to be challenged later, we have children and I think that makes a very big difference to Brazilian courts who will and rightly so act in a manor that should protect any children.

Child support is obligatory, whatever contract is signed. The couple's assets, it's a different story...

I'm not sure about the bit in bold, as that isn't the impression we got from the solicitor we spoke to*, but again I would recommend the person gets proper legal advice in the country where any contract is likely to be challenged.

* I say the above as my Brazilian partner already owns property in Brazil and that property could/would become part of our joint assets after 2 years according to the solicitor we spoke to, but there are many other issues, so advice needs to be directed at your personal situation, I know for sure it doesn’t apply in the UK but that is a very different legal system..

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Denise
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Quote Denise Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2007 at 11:58
* I say the above as my Brazilian partner already owns property in Brazil and that property could/would become part of our joint assets after 2 years according to the solicitor we spoke to

Oh yeah, everything you shared during the 2 years, but not what was acquired after the contract is signed. Of course, adders of how to separate assets can be included in any contract.
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