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VamousFloripa
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Quote VamousFloripa Replybullet Topic: American appliance installation in florinopolis
    Posted: 27 December 2011 at 02:05
I have (foolishly?) purchased an entire set of kitchen appliances as well as a washer an dryer for use in Florinopolis. Now, after reading the forums, I remain uncertain of what will be required to insure the power supply works with all appliances. The Electrolux oven and Samsung dryer operate on 220v single phase. All others are 110v 60hrz. With the the oven and dryer.... Should I hire an electrical engineer to set up the correct wiring? Is the setup for the other appliances strait forward or should I spend a small fortune on transformers? does anyone have a recommendation of someone to contact for the work? Are there any items I should purchase from Home Depot that would be useful?
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Gringo.Floripa
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Quote Gringo.Floripa Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 07:23
For the 110v appliances you'll need transformers here in SC.  Buy them in the US prior.  Less bulky and of better quality.  Be sure to buy extra fuses, which some of the better heavy-duty transformers have.  As far as using the 220v appliances here, according to forum member Catarinense, he's had dismal success in having an imported clothes dryer hooked up to work properly.  I assumed it would merely be a matter of switching the type of plug, but evidently there are other complications.  Haven't seen him on here in awhile, so maybe send him a pm.

Whether or not you do end up bringing the dryer, unless you'll be venting directly outside the wall the dryer is positioned against, be sure to bring one of these "aluminum periscopes" (also available at HD) that you'd install behind your dryer, which you'd then attach the flexible aluminum venting tube to.  Many people here don't bother to vent their dryers (or stoves!) to the outside.  Buy the flexible aluminum tubing as well in the US; have only seen the plastic kind here in SC, which is a fire hazard.  Don't forget the clamps!  Lastly, purchase one of those louvered vent outlet covers (preferably with a grate), to install on the outside of your wall.  Have never seen those here either (but perhaps the larger cities like Sampa, Rio, even Curitiba might have them)....

Oh yeah, FYI, energy costs are waaaay more here than in the US, so you might find one of these handy to dry your clothes 95% of the way, and then just use the dryer to remove the stiffness from towels, etc.

As far as finding an "electrical engineer", it will be more like a pedreiro, who knows some basic wiring.  Boa sorte!

EDIT: My post did NOT include hyperlinks for the word "transformers".  That's an annoyance of this site, automatically embedding links for certain words.



Edited by Gringo.Floripa - 27 December 2011 at 07:34
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Catarinense
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Quote Catarinense Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 10:41
Wow, I have actually been cited as a "reference,"  and I've not even achieved guru status yet.  kkkkkk  Just kidding GF. Smile
 
We moved back to Brazil (SC) in June (2011) and brought a container full of 110v stuff.  The US 220v dryer is collecting dust in the corner of the basement, next to the special Brazilian outlet that I paid R$800 for an electronic installation company to install for me.  We tried everything, but still no luck.  I'm no elec. engineer, but it would seem to me that a US 220v dryer would work on a 220v Brazilian system, but it hasn't so far.  R$800 down the drain! Actually, that was a snowball price (so not a total waste) because I had them re-wire circuits, install an electric hot water faucet at the kitchen sink and run a new "rede" to the basement for a kid's game room, etc.
 
Nonetheless, we have purchased 5 (five) 220v transformers of various wattage ratings.  A low voltage transformer (750VA/488W) cost me around R$80.  A larger transformer (2000VA/1200w) that we use for our US fridge and US stove ran me around R$130. 
 
FYI, these transformers will require a small utility crane to move them from room to room bc they are so dang heavy.  Big%20smile OK, maybe not a crane but I could curl them and get a pretty good work out. 
 
On the positive side, they seem to be durable.  My daughter knocked the big one off the top of the fridge and it still works - knock on wood.  However, when I plugged it back in I inverted the wires and fried the computer to the oven w a jolt of 440v juice (220 x 2).  So, no T-day turkey in our new stove (wife still not happy -  Ouch hehehe).  After 6 weeks, the elect. installation company did manage to fix it, though.  So at least we roasted the Christmas turkey in it. Clap
 
GF:  I have seen metal flex hose and vent caps for the wall.  You need to go to a fireplace store or a place where they sell gas-fired, hot water heaters.  I can't guarantee the circumference will match, but it looked like it might.  Not sure about price either.  I'll have to get back to you on that one.
 




Edited by Catarinense - 27 December 2011 at 10:49
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Gringo.Floripa
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Quote Gringo.Floripa Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 14:05
Originally posted by Catarinense

GF:  I have seen metal flex hose and vent caps for the wall.  You need to go to a fireplace store or a place where they sell gas-fired, hot water heaters.  I can't guarantee the circumference will match, but it looked like it might.  Not sure about price either.  I'll have to get back to you on that one.


I have seen the metal flex hose for the gas water heater, and the circumference is indeed smaller if one is using one of these "periscope" contraptions (and I believe even for the actual exhaust hole of the dryer)  The wall outlets in my laundry room were not installed on the outside wall, but on the opposing wall.  Go figure.  So if I wanted to vent outside, it was necessary to rig up one of these periscope contraptions, and install the venting up the wall, along the ceiling, then outside.  Maybe the OP will luck out and have an outlet on the proper wall!

Haven't looked lately for the louvered vent caps, so it's quite possible they have finally arrived on the scene.  Never thought about looking at a place which sells water heaters; only looked at the "Home Depot" like stores, such as Cassol and Casa das Aguas (the mainstays here in Floripa).

I'm sorry you've had such a hassle with your dryer!  That was one regret I had, not shipping one in my container.  The dryer I purchased locally is far inferior, size-wise and efficiency-wise (yet cost 3 times more).  But regardless, guess I can now cross that regret off my list.

Change of topic:  Made it to Campo dos Padres yet?


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VamousFloripa
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Quote VamousFloripa Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 14:39
If I change the dryer for gas, will I need special gas hook ups?
If I understand correctly, then my oven is never going to work? Single phase 220 is impossible to duplicate?

I am not so pessimistic about an engineer, I have found you can find professionals that actually do good work.... But you are right, as most are just hacks.

So I figure 3000 watt trans for a filter/exaust, gas range top and disposal. 3000 watt for dish washer and refrigerator. 3000 watt for the microwave convection oven. 5000 watt for home theater/ gaming systkem.
Maybe 1500 watt for the washer and gas dryer.

Catarinese, what ultimately was the problem? Is there some sort of equipment unlivable in brazil? I still have time before the shipping container arrives.

Thanks!!!


Edited by VamousFloripa - 27 December 2011 at 14:55
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Quote Gringo.Floripa Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 15:09
Originally posted by VamousFloripa

If I change the dryer for gas, will I need special gas hook ups?


Unless you intend to live in Centro, there are no gas lines available here, only LP tanks (and natural gas lines a new arrival in centro, so don't know if every building has a connection).  Therefore, I believe you'll need a special fitting for LP use, and maybe even a very specific model of dryer.  Whether or not that fitting is compatible here, I don't know (but doubtful).  I've not heard of gas clothes dryers being sold in Brasil, which are actually the most efficient kind of dryer.



Edited by Gringo.Floripa - 27 December 2011 at 15:13
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Quote VamousFloripa Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 15:49
My condo in Campinas/ Kobrasol has central gas...
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Quote Gringo.Floripa Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 16:05
Good for you!!!  I would LOVE to have natural gas in my house (other than the occasional dog "vapor").  LOL

Don't know what to tell you about the connection.  I think it's a far better chance that it won't be compatible, than will, but I'd think that would be easy to swap out.  If you're going to use a gas dryer, you'll definitely need to vent it to the outside.  I'd assume a gas dryer, which would still have some sort of electrical control panel, even the drum would only be running on 110v for those items, meaning you could get by with just a transformer.  Yet best to double-check that.

EDIT: Do you know the name of the company which supplies the natural gas?



Edited by Gringo.Floripa - 27 December 2011 at 17:02
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Quote DUNGA Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 16:36
When I looked into it before, last time there was a lot of this talk, the Gas Dryers were 110v (nominal) which runs the tumbler motor and the clocks, etc. Looking at the schematics, the 220v electric dryers were the same, but in addition used the opposing spade of the (US 220) plug to provide power for the heating element. The 220 in Florinopolis is different from the 220 in the US and I don't think you can get around it changing out the plug. I think if you went into the dryer and provided a power circuit and source for the 110v motor and electronics which you ran off a converter, then another 220v for the heater coil, it would work. You will never get the 110v you need for the motor off a 220v plug in SC, like you can in the USA.
At least that is my understanding. It is hard to explain. I really need to draw it out on a cocktail napkin.
Sure, you can rig up something to run a gas appliance off fuel gas bottle in Brazil.

Best Luck!!!


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Quote Catarinense Replybullet Posted: 27 December 2011 at 16:39
VP:  Our US stove was designed for natural gas w 120v cord to run the display and auto-pilot.  The 120 was easy enough to run off of a transformer, but we had to buy a natural gas/LP gas conversion kit (actually my buddy was the sales rep so he threw it in for free).  Basically, it was just a matter of trading out the little brass gas injector nozzles for a different size - can't remember if it was for  injectors with smaller or larger openings (???).  I simply had to open each gas stove position, reach inside w a long socket driver, remove the old and put in the new.  No big deal.  The oven was more of a challenge and I was afraid I'd get it wrong and blow up my family and half the neighborhood, so I paid a technician to adjust it and then hook the rest up.  It now operates like a regular Brazilian oven w my Brazilian botijão outside the kitchen door.
 
As far as the dryer, I believe it is surmountable, I just need the right technician who has enough imaginative, "out of the box" thinking skills who can understand US systems.  The kid they sent out was no more than 25 and had probably never seen a US dryer.  At the time I didn't have the schematics, so he was lost.  I think it is a difference in phases that threw him off, but he wouldn't listen to me.
 
GF:  Funny you should mention Campos dos Padres - I was just thinking about it today.  But no, I haven't made it back out that far yet.  Maybe bf Easter I'll get a chance.  But I did take the family to Sao Joaquim for lunch a couple of Sundays ago - not a bad little town.  There were a few "quaint" little shops.  
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