Gringoes.com: For all Yanks with bank accounts in Brasil

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Ray
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Joined: 18 May 2011
Location: Brazil
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 15:31

BIG thanks to GP. I heard about this, however, once I buy a Flat then I'll have to deal with it. My question is how can the US Gov find out if a US citizen owns and lives outside the US? At any rate, a great Topic and Thread.

Edited by Ray66 - 06 June 2011 at 15:31

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DUNGA
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Joined: 30 March 2006
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 15:32

Originally posted by Esprit

I would suggest that the likelihood of all Brazilian banks providing a comprehensive list of ex-pat bank details to a foreign nation is a bit of a stretch of the imagination given the nature of Brazil´s banking system which is not at all like the Swiss laundry. In any event I suspect that the IRS are more interested in the multiple zero big fish money that is worth the effort of chasing.

I would like to think Brazilian banks and the powers to be wouldn't be cooperative about turning over this information but I read a very brief article a couple years back about a newly enacted information agreement between the Receita Federal and the IRS that was scary but not detailed enough to be truly informative. But it did lead me to believe that, at some level, the 'will' is there. As to the 'way', the banks may seem disorganized at the branch management level but I would imagine that the databases are well maintained and up to date. Unfortunately, a data search for for account holders who are also U.S. nationals might be as likely to turn up those with account balances of R$30,000 as R$30,000,000, and turning over a mountain of data (for the IRS to sort out) might be a matter of national pride.

Who knows?

Tales of Brave Ulysses

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Dom Pedro
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Joined: 24 October 2008
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 15:41

Naturalize and put all your accounts under Brazilian ID.

No, I don´t take drugs. My dreams are already scary enough. M.C. Escher

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sven
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Joined: 14 March 2007
Location: Brazil
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 15:43

Originally posted by Dom Pedro

not a modern XXI century state.

Well, the Patriot Act brings the US close to what used to be the USSR

We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde

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sven
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Joined: 14 March 2007
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 15:48

Originally posted by DUNGA

As to the 'way', the banks may seem disorganized at the branch management level but I would imagine that the databases are well maintained and up to date. Unfortunately, a data search for for account holders who are also U.S. nationals might be as likely to turn up those with account balances of R$30,000 as R$30,000,000, and turning over a mountain of data (for the IRS to sort out) might be a matter of national pride.Who knows?

They way (possibility) may be there, but that will never happen. The Receita does not even have the possibility to look into the bank accounts of Brazilians unless they have a court order. Court orders are only possible in case of crimes. CPMF tax was held up for a long time because it allowed the IRS to have a view of what people had in their bank accounts, or at least their spending patterns.

We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde

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Dom Pedro
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Joined: 24 October 2008
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 15:50

Originally posted by sven

Originally posted by Dom Pedro

not a modern XXI century state.

Well, the Patriot Act brings the US close to what used to be the USSR

The patriot act only legalized practices which de-facto existed in the US since 60-70's

No, I don´t take drugs. My dreams are already scary enough. M.C. Escher

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Esprit
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Joined: 28 January 2010
Location: Brazil
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 15:51

Originally posted by Dom Pedro

A country which taxes its citizen on their worldwide income EVEN if they permanently reside abroad (and should have been treated as non-resident for tax purposes by any civilized country) resembles me a medieval slave owner, not a modern XXI century state.

This is an interesting point. If one has in fact officially changed one´s country of residence despite not having relinquished one´s citizenship of the former country, the issue of taxation would be taken up in one´s adopted country when of course worldwide earnings would be liable to tax. The former country should not be able to levy taxes under such circumstances?

Esprit

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Gringo.Floripa
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Joined: 17 June 2010
Location: Brazil
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 16:20

Originally posted by sven

Well, it can't, not without a court order. The Patriot Act has no value here.

Was it a court order which convinced Switzerland to rat on it's account holders? I'd truly like to think Brasil, be it Dilma, or some future president, would give Tio Sam the middle finger, when asked to do the same. However, as the saying goes, politics makes for strange bedfellows. I have no doubt BACEN would love to have similar info about Brazzers who have US accounts.

I might bark, but I don't bite.

(trolls, sock puppets, Brasil-bashers, and "Joined:Today" persons too lazy to use the Search function excluded; cry babies too)

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Esprit
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Joined: 28 January 2010
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 16:28

We are walking down paranoia boulevard here. I´ve always used a `shy´ pen when completing tax returns and learned to live with the fear that some day they may find my wood in the forest.

Esprit

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sven
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Joined: 14 March 2007
Location: Brazil
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 16:29

What would be the use of such info for the Central Bank?

We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.
~Oscar Wilde

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