Go to the Baixada Fluminese, parts of Rio like Parada de Lucas where there is always a lack of water, there are open sewers in the street, no trash pick up, schools are always closed, there are not many well funded social organizations and NGO, you live too far away because of the traffic to qualify for decent work in the rest of the city or partake in anything the city has to offer and the people are still expected to pay property taxes for those priveleges, pay for their water that doesn't work (plus for the water stolen by people living in the favelas), light bills, etc.  They don't have cable and often don't even have access to internet cafes let alone computers at home because its much too expensive.

Or go to areas in the Northeast or even a city in the interior of Rio state, like Campos dos Goytacazes where little kids still work in the cane fields or helping harvest trees for charcoal, pretty much as slaves and "don't have the right" to go to school because the owner of the land convinced the parents that they didn't need a BC and the kids were later barred from school or getting a carteira de trabalho without that doc.

Brazil is full of absolutely astounding, gut wrenching poverty that is hidden in all of its corners, masked often by the lower middle class "plight" of those who live in favelas and can't afford licenses and cars or flatscreen tv's.  They guy with gato luz, gato agua, and 50channels of gato cable, with free government provided internet, access to sports, music and language programs for free through the government and NGO's, no property taxes or condo fees and who lives close enough to take advantage of the many work and culture opportunities of the better areas of cities is VERY lucky in this country.  They are VERY, VERY lucky in my book.

People who live in favelas in central areas of Brazil's big cities are not poor in terms of money or opportunities when compared to people who live in the "periphery" or "interior". To claim that people who can fathom having a license and driving a car are really "poor" and downtrodden does injustice to the millions living in absolute misery that we like to pretend don't exist.


If you doubt what I'm saying think about WHY people live in the favelas.  You'd have to come from pretty miserable conditions to build a precarious shack on a mountainside and stay there and people keep moving there in droves.

YOU are making things black and white and incredibly small scale.

For every middle class person who applies for a license to open their own business as a motoboy, which is essentially what you are talking about (they aren't working for a company but renting a bike to work for themelves).  Ten other middle class people will want one to drive to work and show their middle class status as license holder and driver of a wtf bike or car.  This will then clogg up traffic for all of the other people who don't have the funds or the opportunity to pay for a license/vehicle and then will get stuck with worse traffic and possibly worse employment conditions because of it.

Did you ever consider that this could do away with the whole motoboy/taxi trade anyway? If it is cheap to get a license, and reasonable to rent a bike why wouldn't people just do that and take care of their family and immediate neighbors, erasing any benefits you are trying to create for your own family.

So - no jobs for motoboys and FEWER jobs for the poor in the periphery.  All so you can save a buck helping your family.



Edited by nikkij12185 - 17 March 2011 at 23:19

Originally posted by nikkij12185 Go to the Baixada Fluminese, parts of Rio like Parada de Lucas where there is always a lack of water, there are open sewers in the street, no trash pick up, schools are always closed, there are not many well funded social organizations and NGO, you live too far away because of the traffic to qualify for decent work in the rest of the city or partake in anything the city has to offer and the people are still expected to pay property taxes for those priveleges, pay for their water that doesn't work (plus for the water stolen by people living in the favelas), light bills, etc.  They don't have cable and often don't even have access to internet cafes let alone computers at home because its much too expensive. Or go to areas in the Northeast or even a city in the interior of Rio state, like Campos dos Goytacazes where little kids still work in the cane fields or helping harvest trees for charcoal, pretty much as slaves and "don't have the right" to go to school because the owner of the land convinced the parents that they didn't need a BC and the kids were later barred from school or getting a carteira de trabalho without that doc. Brazil is full of absolutely astounding, gut wrenching poverty that is hidden in all of its corners, masked often by the lower middle class "plight" of those who live in favelas and can't afford licenses and cars or flatscreen tv's.  They guy with gato luz, gato agua, and 50channels of gato cable, with free government provided internet, access to sports, music and language programs for free through the government and NGO's, no property taxes or condo fees and who lives close enough to take advantage of the many work and culture opportunities of the better areas of cities is VERY lucky in this country.  They are VERY, VERY lucky in my book. People who live in favelas in central areas of Brazil's big cities are not poor in terms of money or opportunities when compared to people who live in the "periphery" or "interior". To claim that people who can fathom having a license and driving a car are really "poor" and downtrodden does injustice to the millions living in absolute misery that we like to pretend don't exist. If you doubt what I'm saying think about WHY people live in the favelas.  You'd have to come from pretty miserable conditions to build a precarious shack on a mountainside and stay there and people keep moving there in droves.

And all the hype of Brazil soon reaching "Developed nation status."

R$1600 really?
Somebody is getting ripped off.
I can buy a legit "AB" for R$1200 or go to drivers school and pay R$800 here in São Paulo.
In Norway the whole shebang costs some 5-10k R$ nowadays.

Well these posts has crushed my mellow this morning. As a gringo familiar with those TV images of a war torn world, famines with fly-blown children, despots like Mugabe and Muammar Gaddafi together with natural disasters, it’s all too easy to succumb to a media overload followed by a jaded view of it all. However living in a country where abject poverty and corruption exists takes a bit of swallowing; one, in a sense, becomes a participant.

I say this because, aside from the climate, I have taken advantage of a lifestyle that is, in essence, an intrinsic part of this social debacle. I can rationalise that my presence in the country is making a positive contribution, however miniscule, yet one cannot escape this guilt by association. Reading about people without birth certificates or education tends to prick at the bubble I live in.