Gringoes.com: Stable Union Visa Process

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jon7899
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Joined: 24 January 2012
Location: Brazil
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Posts: 34

Posted: 31 January 2012 at 18:10

Hi Amy,

Really helpful, thank you!
At present, we don't have any of the documents which will have been valid for a year. We're going through the process of getting the Cartorio Stable Union Certificate now, looking to do it in the next day or so.

One question with regards to that, would there be any impact of choosing each of the following, in terms of the document's use for obtaining a visa:

Informar o regime de bens escolhido (comunhão parcial de bens, comunhão universal de bens, separação de bens e participação final nos aquestos).

Following on from that, since my visa expires in 100 days and (on expiry in May) I'm leaving Brazil for two weeks for my sister's wedding in the UK, I think my best bet might be PF, since I would need the protocolo to return?

I've got the form to send to get my ACRO certificate (police record) and will try to send that off tomorrow and just hope that postal efficiencies tie in with the 90 day validity. I can also plead with family at home to get a certified birth certificate posted out to coincide.

Living in Sao Paulo, however, I'm guessing I could have fun with judge turnaround times? We're considering going to the Conselho Nacional de Imigracao tomorrow, since (from the Brazilian Consulate - London website) I was led to believe that they are the ones who will, ultimately, grant the visa?

The two witness statements shouldn't be an issue...other than that, a lot of finger crossing?

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amypie1
Senior Member

Joined: 15 December 2010
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 149

Posted: 31 January 2012 at 21:43

well, given that you are living in Sao Paulo I would definitely try and lodge your application at the PF-although im not sure that they accept Permenant visa applications based upoin stable unions....
The first thing I would do is contract a lawyer to start the process with a judge; get as much evidence as you possibly can (photos spanning your entire relationship, emails, flight ticket receipts, basically anything and everything) and give that to your lawyer so he/ she can at least get you started, and give you a rough Idea of how long it will take. If you manage to get a confirmation of stable union from a judge then you will not have to send any documents proving that you have been together for one year. With regard to the ACRO certificate, I would get your form sent off as quickly as you can, as it can and WILL take 40 days for it to be returned to you-thats not counting how long it will take to get it legalised in London. (I am from the UK and had the joys of going through all of this first hand).

I would thinK that the Conselho will probably give you a copy of this, and send you on your merry way:

http://portal.mte.gov.br/data/files/FF8080812BAFFE3B012BC09BA65925FB/in_rn_20080129_77.pdf

So I honestly wouldnt waste your time. I think your prioity should be finding out whether or not your local PF accepts SU applications and then go from there. If they do then, "tudo de bom" because that can at least buy you some time to get the judges response and send that off to the MTE.

I basically had the same predicament as you when I was applying last year...Sent my application through the PF in January 2011, five months later the MTE told me that I needed to get a judge to issue proff of a stable union, it took me two months to get that document (through a lawyer) and in september my application was approved.

I dont think you need to do too much finger crossing, just work how much time you have got, how much you will need, and how much you have to wrangle...and bob is your uncle. Ha!

My wonderful, tumultuous experience is all documented on here. If you type amypie1 and stable union, you will find it.

amy

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RioGringoLegal
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Joined: 25 January 2011
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 09:30

I agree about the PF. Here in Rio we did everything through them - with a lot of side trips to the local cartorio. My experience was that, once you get your protocolo, it's just a matter of time with a lot of back and forth giving them the next thing they never told you you needed. the PF in SP might be different from Rio but we never needed a lawyer nor saw a judge, just gave them the 12 things on the original checklist (REUNIÃO FAMILIAR RES. ADM. N˚5 - UNIÃO ESTÁVEL) and then want back and forth for a few years with no feeling that it would not be approved.

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amypie1
Senior Member

Joined: 15 December 2010
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 149

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:20

I think it depends on what documents you have, if you dont have 2 one year old documents to back up the stable union certificate you made at the cartorio then it becomes alot more complicated...which I think is Jons case.

amy

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jon7899
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Joined: 24 January 2012
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 34

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:31

Yeah, that's definitely my case - one year "anniversary" on the 9th February, which I know may make the sceptical among you doubt the relationship haha, but it makes any long-term proof impossible.

So do you think that, based on your experiences alone, putting in an application to the PF (once we identify one that accepts stable union applications) with as much of the required documentation as we are able to provide, would buy us some time in which to obtain the judge-approved stable union declaration? Or is it likely that, without the judge-approval, our/my application could simply be declined?

I guess the trouble with getting sound, solid advice here is that every case is different, every city is different and every person responsible for saying yes/no to each step will be different, too....

Sincerely appreciate your help and advice!

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e_quilibrium
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Joined: 10 May 2011
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:41

IF you can the the PF to accept your application, it will buy you time while they sit on it for an indeterminate amount of time. Your challenge will be that they'll be looking for all the paperwork that matches the resolution... including documents that are more than one year old.

100 days is probably enough to get a judge to issue a stable union - this is your best bet. If your home country issues stable unions, this would also be an easier path. In the mean time, get going on those other documents... they'll be a year old a year from now.

Best of luck!

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jon7899
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Newbie

Joined: 24 January 2012
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 34

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 15:29

So my girlfriend called the PF and was twice told that we should go directly to the MTE, we're now headed there for 8am tomorrow morning, before work, to see what they have to say and if we can scour out some nice, friendly person willing to offer tailored advice.

The Brazilian Consulate in London says that the documentation should be handed to the PF at the airport? Is this likely to be a viable alternative? Or just go all out to try and get everything sorted and to the MTE ASAP and try to squeeze everything into the days before I go to england and then hope everything is done and dusted before i attempt to come back?

...relying on the speed of the visa system in Brazil...something about that doesn't sit quite right...

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amypie1
Senior Member

Joined: 15 December 2010
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 149

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 16:55

Jon, if the PF dont accept your application I would advise that you do the following:

Make a certificate of Stable union at the cartorio, get your ACRO certificate and have it legalised at the consulate, get all the other beurocratic stuff required by RN77 (Copies of passport, written history of relationship etc etc) and send your application off to the MTE. At the same time start the process with the judge-if your process goes in to "exigencia" with the MTE, you can write to them asking for more time (you can do this on 3 seperate occasions asking for a 90 day extension each time). Then by the time you get the judgement, send it off and within a couple of weeks you will get your answer. Its definitely possible to get your visa within 100 days...thats if you start everything literally TOMORROW!

Let us know how you get on!

amy

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WENGER
Senior Member

Joined: 02 February 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 497

Posted: 02 February 2012 at 14:44

Hi All ,

I have been working here in SP for almost 2 years, my employer promised to fix my docs to me (but it did not happen)

Anyway, I am thinking about união estavel with my namorada, and to apply for permanencia.

I did some search on the internet, it seems like one half of the layers says YES it is possible and the second says NO

Please, have a closer look at this:

Advocacia Regina Machado
Srsa união estavel entre estrangeiro e brasileiros esta é normal e legal, porem nao é possivel com estrangeiro ilegal no país, somente após a regularização, pois o visto certamente será negado, mesmo pagando multa, a depender do tempo de ilegalidade a penalidade pode ser a saída do país, com longo tempo de impedimento de entrada.resumindo: estrangeiro ilegal, não pode ter visto permanente deferido, se tiver algum caso de estrangeiro irregular com visto de turista vencido que obteve o visto permanente favor publicar para o bem dos tantos que pedem orientação aqui

meus cumprimentos a todos e aos colegas
Dra Regina Machado

Permalink Mensagem inadequada Responde

Multiplic Vistos

Prezada Dra. Regina,

O visto permanente é possível por estrangeiro ilegal no país, não pode ter é a permanência definitiva, em relação ao tempo, os dois tem o mesmo prazo, a diferencia um do outro é o local onde se pega o visto após o deferimento. O visto permanente é retirado em um consulado brasileiro no exterior e a permanência e retirada na Polícia Federal.
Espero ter ajudado.
Att,
Jucelia Sousa

So you can witness this confusion among the pros for yourself :)

If you have any positive ideas, solutions, please let me know

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Carioquinho
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Joined: 20 September 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 86

Posted: 02 February 2012 at 14:59

I was illegal when they approved my permanent visa via uniao estavel (RN77). If you lodge your application to MTE, nobody will ask you anything regarding your immigration status in Brazil. You can even apply from abroad ... No problem, go for it !

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Visas and Documentation
Gringoes.com : Brazil : Visas and Documentation

Author	Message
jon7899 Newbie Joined: 24 January 2012 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 34	Posted: 31 January 2012 at 18:10
	Hi Amy, Really helpful, thank you! At present, we don't have any of the documents which will have been valid for a year. We're going through the process of getting the Cartorio Stable Union Certificate now, looking to do it in the next day or so. One question with regards to that, would there be any impact of choosing each of the following, in terms of the document's use for obtaining a visa: Informar o regime de bens escolhido (comunhão parcial de bens, comunhão universal de bens, separação de bens e participação final nos aquestos). Following on from that, since my visa expires in 100 days and (on expiry in May) I'm leaving Brazil for two weeks for my sister's wedding in the UK, I think my best bet might be PF, since I would need the protocolo to return? I've got the form to send to get my ACRO certificate (police record) and will try to send that off tomorrow and just hope that postal efficiencies tie in with the 90 day validity. I can also plead with family at home to get a certified birth certificate posted out to coincide. Living in Sao Paulo, however, I'm guessing I could have fun with judge turnaround times? We're considering going to the Conselho Nacional de Imigracao tomorrow, since (from the Brazilian Consulate - London website) I was led to believe that they are the ones who will, ultimately, grant the visa? The two witness statements shouldn't be an issue...other than that, a lot of finger crossing?
	IP Logged

amypie1 Senior Member Joined: 15 December 2010 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 149	Posted: 31 January 2012 at 21:43
	well, given that you are living in Sao Paulo I would definitely try and lodge your application at the PF-although im not sure that they accept Permenant visa applications based upoin stable unions.... The first thing I would do is contract a lawyer to start the process with a judge; get as much evidence as you possibly can (photos spanning your entire relationship, emails, flight ticket receipts, basically anything and everything) and give that to your lawyer so he/ she can at least get you started, and give you a rough Idea of how long it will take. If you manage to get a confirmation of stable union from a judge then you will not have to send any documents proving that you have been together for one year. With regard to the ACRO certificate, I would get your form sent off as quickly as you can, as it can and WILL take 40 days for it to be returned to you-thats not counting how long it will take to get it legalised in London. (I am from the UK and had the joys of going through all of this first hand). I would thinK that the Conselho will probably give you a copy of this, and send you on your merry way: http://portal.mte.gov.br/data/files/FF8080812BAFFE3B012BC09BA65925FB/in_rn_20080129_77.pdf So I honestly wouldnt waste your time. I think your prioity should be finding out whether or not your local PF accepts SU applications and then go from there. If they do then, "tudo de bom" because that can at least buy you some time to get the judges response and send that off to the MTE. I basically had the same predicament as you when I was applying last year...Sent my application through the PF in January 2011, five months later the MTE told me that I needed to get a judge to issue proff of a stable union, it took me two months to get that document (through a lawyer) and in september my application was approved. I dont think you need to do too much finger crossing, just work how much time you have got, how much you will need, and how much you have to wrangle...and bob is your uncle. Ha! My wonderful, tumultuous experience is all documented on here. If you type amypie1 and stable union, you will find it.
	amy
	IP Logged

RioGringoLegal Newbie Joined: 25 January 2011 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Posted: 01 February 2012 at 09:30
	I agree about the PF. Here in Rio we did everything through them - with a lot of side trips to the local cartorio. My experience was that, once you get your protocolo, it's just a matter of time with a lot of back and forth giving them the next thing they never told you you needed. the PF in SP might be different from Rio but we never needed a lawyer nor saw a judge, just gave them the 12 things on the original checklist (REUNIÃO FAMILIAR RES. ADM. N˚5 - UNIÃO ESTÁVEL) and then want back and forth for a few years with no feeling that it would not be approved.
	IP Logged

amypie1 Senior Member Joined: 15 December 2010 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 149	Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:20
	I think it depends on what documents you have, if you dont have 2 one year old documents to back up the stable union certificate you made at the cartorio then it becomes alot more complicated...which I think is Jons case.
	amy
	IP Logged

jon7899 Newbie Joined: 24 January 2012 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 34	Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:31
	Yeah, that's definitely my case - one year "anniversary" on the 9th February, which I know may make the sceptical among you doubt the relationship haha, but it makes any long-term proof impossible. So do you think that, based on your experiences alone, putting in an application to the PF (once we identify one that accepts stable union applications) with as much of the required documentation as we are able to provide, would buy us some time in which to obtain the judge-approved stable union declaration? Or is it likely that, without the judge-approval, our/my application could simply be declined? I guess the trouble with getting sound, solid advice here is that every case is different, every city is different and every person responsible for saying yes/no to each step will be different, too.... Sincerely appreciate your help and advice!
	IP Logged

e_quilibrium Newbie Joined: 10 May 2011 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 29	Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:41
	IF you can the the PF to accept your application, it will buy you time while they sit on it for an indeterminate amount of time. Your challenge will be that they'll be looking for all the paperwork that matches the resolution... including documents that are more than one year old. 100 days is probably enough to get a judge to issue a stable union - this is your best bet. If your home country issues stable unions, this would also be an easier path. In the mean time, get going on those other documents... they'll be a year old a year from now. Best of luck!
	IP Logged

jon7899 Newbie Joined: 24 January 2012 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 34	Posted: 01 February 2012 at 15:29
	So my girlfriend called the PF and was twice told that we should go directly to the MTE, we're now headed there for 8am tomorrow morning, before work, to see what they have to say and if we can scour out some nice, friendly person willing to offer tailored advice. The Brazilian Consulate in London says that the documentation should be handed to the PF at the airport? Is this likely to be a viable alternative? Or just go all out to try and get everything sorted and to the MTE ASAP and try to squeeze everything into the days before I go to england and then hope everything is done and dusted before i attempt to come back? ...relying on the speed of the visa system in Brazil...something about that doesn't sit quite right...
	IP Logged

amypie1 Senior Member Joined: 15 December 2010 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 149	Posted: 01 February 2012 at 16:55
	Jon, if the PF dont accept your application I would advise that you do the following: Make a certificate of Stable union at the cartorio, get your ACRO certificate and have it legalised at the consulate, get all the other beurocratic stuff required by RN77 (Copies of passport, written history of relationship etc etc) and send your application off to the MTE. At the same time start the process with the judge-if your process goes in to "exigencia" with the MTE, you can write to them asking for more time (you can do this on 3 seperate occasions asking for a 90 day extension each time). Then by the time you get the judgement, send it off and within a couple of weeks you will get your answer. Its definitely possible to get your visa within 100 days...thats if you start everything literally TOMORROW! Let us know how you get on!
	amy
	IP Logged

WENGER Senior Member Joined: 02 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 497	Posted: 02 February 2012 at 14:44
	Hi All , I have been working here in SP for almost 2 years, my employer promised to fix my docs to me (but it did not happen) Anyway, I am thinking about união estavel with my namorada, and to apply for permanencia. I did some search on the internet, it seems like one half of the layers says YES it is possible and the second says NO Please, have a closer look at this: Advocacia Regina Machado Srsa união estavel entre estrangeiro e brasileiros esta é normal e legal, porem nao é possivel com estrangeiro ilegal no país, somente após a regularização, pois o visto certamente será negado, mesmo pagando multa, a depender do tempo de ilegalidade a penalidade pode ser a saída do país, com longo tempo de impedimento de entrada.resumindo: estrangeiro ilegal, não pode ter visto permanente deferido, se tiver algum caso de estrangeiro irregular com visto de turista vencido que obteve o visto permanente favor publicar para o bem dos tantos que pedem orientação aqui meus cumprimentos a todos e aos colegas Dra Regina Machado Permalink Mensagem inadequada Responde *Multiplic Vistos* Prezada Dra. Regina, O visto permanente é possível por estrangeiro ilegal no país, não pode ter é a permanência definitiva, em relação ao tempo, os dois tem o mesmo prazo, a diferencia um do outro é o local onde se pega o visto após o deferimento. O visto permanente é retirado em um consulado brasileiro no exterior e a permanência e retirada na Polícia Federal. Espero ter ajudado. Att, Jucelia Sousa So you can witness this confusion among the pros for yourself :) If you have any positive ideas, solutions, please let me know
	IP Logged

Carioquinho Groupie Joined: 20 September 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 86	Posted: 02 February 2012 at 14:59
	I was illegal when they approved my permanent visa via uniao estavel (RN77). If you lodge your application to MTE, nobody will ask you anything regarding your immigration status in Brazil. You can even apply from abroad ... No problem, go for it !
	IP Logged

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