I was involved in this thread a couple of years ago. I wasasking what to do if you live together but have no plans to get married. Well,two years later, I am married, we have two kids (we already had our first childbefore we were married), and I have no agreement at all. Nothing. I actuallynever even spoke to my wife about it.

Why?

Because firstly and most importantly, we have children, andI think that changes everything, if not in law, then at least in terms of decidingwhat is the right thing to do for the kids. Secondly, I decided not to buy ahouse or land in Brazil, and lastly, my savings are all offshore, so I couldnot see the point of dealing with the kind of conversation that goes, listendarling, would you mind signing this document that means you get none of mystuff.

If I had stuff in Brazil, or if we had no children, I mighthave thought it more important. But as I said, no stuff here means not much aBrazilian judge can do to me anyway other than tell me to pay what I am prettysure I would have happily agreed to pay anyway.

We are actually soon to relocate to my own country, so thelaws of that land will be what is applied there, and a pre-nup in Brazil willmean squat then if it ever comes to it, so all in all, for my specificcircumstances, I decided not to do anything.

If we decide we want to come back to Brazil, and startgetting big stuff here, then I guess the actual title of this thread, apre-nuptial after the fact, will be a thread I shall re-visit, but more than likely,I won`t do anything then either. I agree with Frank400. If you get far into arelationship but you can`t figure out if your wife or partner is mainly in itfor the money, perhaps you deserve to take the hit!

A little law like a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.  If wife disagrees with the previous arrangenment and if there is a kid or two involved....  things can be turned upside down.   Little law may not help at all...

Sure, though I think my point was that a prenup is not just about protecting yourself from your partner but from circumstances greater than them.

Well, this has been an interesting read! I find myself researching the topic so as to prepare myself for the future. My situation is as follows…

I am in a relationship with a Brazilian and, while we don’t have marriage on the near horizon, it is something that we plan to do after another year or two together. If it was just a matter of considering our finances, I would be happy for us to split assets and think about it no further. However, family, as always, complicates matters in Brazil.

A summary of his situation is as follows. My boyfriend is the eldest of 5 children. His mother, having married her childhood sweetheart and always been a trusting soul, left her husband to deal with the finances. Imagine her shock when, after 20 years of marriage, she found out that her husband had been having a long-term relationship with another woman and even had a child with her. Following this revelation, she kicked her husband out of the house, separated from him and he then went to live with the other woman. In the weeks leading up to the separation, he secretly sold their assets (they were in his name) and also signed over their business to the name of the other woman so that his original family was left with almost nothing and my boyfriend, as the eldest, found himself prematurely thrown into the role of the breadwinner. (They have continued to live in the family home but no-one is really sure who owns it or what share of it.) My boyfriend’s father then died about a year later.

However, for the past couple of years my boyfriend’s family have been receiving contact from debt collectors trying to receive payments in arrears for things that my boyfriend’s father bought after he had separated from his wife and was living with his new woman (cars etc). Recently, court summons have been received and everyone in the family is understandably worried. In addition to this, there is the question of the unpaid taxes from the family business…A little present which this man left to his family unbeknownst to them. Even though he signed the business over to his new woman, no-one really knows what will come of this.

So, you can imagine that, much as I love and trust my boyfriend, in the event of our future marriage, I would like to protect our assets from the debt which his late father so charmingly left the family; a prenup doesn't mean you don't trust your partner!

You know a lot of this chat is now way off topic.

Personally, I don't really care if you do or don't trustyour partner. This topic is not titled; should I be an idealist! It's not aboutthe ridiculous comparisons between Brasilians or other nationalities. It’s notabout the merits, or otherwise, of trust.

It's about facts. The facts are, you have to choose yourbens option when you get married in Brasil either way. If, like me, you are notmarried but living in a stable union, you also have the ability to establishthe ownership of your bens, via the uniao estavel agreement as Sven points out.

These are not pre-nuptial agreements in the sense that they donot mean very much, as is the case with pre-nuptial contracts in many westerncountries outside of the US.These are legally binding agreements made in Brasil, and under Brasilian law.

There will still be a consideration by the Brasilian courtsabout how the man will provide for his ex wife, or ex partner and theirchildren, but from what I understand, this is outside of the arrangements andownership of their bens. How many bens the man has, and how much he earns, andthe lifestyle the women and child should expect, will all be considered by thecourt in the event that the man and women do not stay together.

But as I understand, the court cannot order a person to partwith their bens, if the agreements signed by the two parties says otherwise.

However I am not sure about this, so if someone is, please educateus.

Thanks

Really!?

Marital Regime

Prior to marrying, a couple must sign their agreement to the type of basic marriage contract into which they are entering. There are four kinds of marital regime available in Brazil.

1. Partial Property Ruling (Comunhão Parcial): the most common system of law for marriage. Property owned by each individual prior to marriage remains their personal property as does any property purchased during the marriage using resources or rights which date to before the marriage (such as an inheritance). However any property purchased after the wedding using resources arising from the period of the marriage belongs jointly to the couple.
2. Community Property Ruling (Comunhão de Bens) whereby the property of both partners, whether acquired before or after the marriage remains the joint property of both partners. A couple planning to marry under this system must start their marriage process by signing a pre-nuptial agreement at the Civil Registry Office.
3. Separate Property Ruling (Separação de Bens): all property acquired either before or after marriage remains the property of the individual. A couple planning to marry under this system must start their marriage process by signing a pre-nuptial agreement at the Civil Registry Office. The separate property ruling is compulsory for those over 60 years of age.
4. Final Partition of Acquisitions (Participação Final dos Aqüestos): all property acquired either before or after marriage remains the property of the individual as in the Separate Property Ruling. However on separation (by divorce or death) all property which was acquired during the marriage will be divided fairly.

I hope this helps.

OK... let's be practical.

If your intention was to separate your assets, the wise thing to do is to go to a "Cartório" together and request a change in your "Regime de Bens", which is perfectly legal and allowed,  according to the current Civil Code in Brazil.

Your current status with the "Regime de Separação Parcial de Bens", should you divorce, means that each of you will keep whatever was yours prior to the marriage, and will split whatever you acquired during the marriage.  It's not quite as simple as that, and there are some ins and outs to this, but I won't bore you with a ton of details.  This is the basic idea.

By changing to a "Regime de Separação Absoluta de Bens", any and all assets will be kept separate and, should you divorce, each of you will keep your own assets.

Best advice - talk to a lawyer before deciding what the best option for you both.  This is just some very basic information, and there's a lot more to it.

Hope that helps... feel free to get in touch if you have any questions.

So, if the gringo asks for "Separacao total de bens", will she be upset? From a Brazilian female perspective? ....and if the gringo buys the apartment (together w/her) in Brazil, but the gringo is the one buying (he pays) the apartment. That stated, if the marriage does not work out, who gets the apartment in case of divorce?

I'm not sure about the bit in bold, as that isn't theimpression we got from the solicitor we spoke to*, but again I would recommendthe person gets proper legal advice in the country where any contract is likelyto be challenged.

* I say the above as my Brazilian partner already owns property in Brazil andthat property could/would become part of our joint assets after 2 yearsaccording to the solicitor we spoke to, but there are many other issues, soadvice needs to be directed at your personal situation, I know for sure itdoesn’t apply in the UK but that is a very different legal system..

Originally posted by London Lad I would get legal advice both in theUSA and Brazil, we considered drawing up a contract but after advice I felt itwasn't worth it if any such contract was able to be challenged later, we havechildren and I think that makes a very big difference to Brazilian courts whowill and rightly so act in a manor that should protect any children.

Child support is obligatory, whatever contract is signed. The couple's assets, it's a different story...

A very interesting question and one that came up in aconversation I had while I was in Brazillast time.

Now while my Portuguese isn’t great I got the idea that onceyou have lived together for two years what were your assets became joint assets,this is what I understood from a Brazilian solicitor, I also thought any agreementsigned before a marriage was open to challenge in Brazilian courts.

I think if I were you I would get legal advice both in theUSA and Brazil, we considered drawing up a contract but after advice I felt itwasn’t worth it if any such contract was able to be challenged later, we havechildren and I think that makes a very big difference to Brazilian courts whowill and rightly so act in a manor that should protect any children.    

HI

Separacao total de bens: whatever is in your name (doesn't matter is acquired before or after the wedding) remains yours in case of separation

Separacao parcial de bens: whatever was yours before the wedding remains yours, whatever you acquired after the wedding is shared between you and your partner n case of separation

Comunhao Universal de bens:  whatever is yours is also your partners (doesn't matter is acquired before or after the wedding)

Mark, a great question. I would like to know also.

 does  anyone have an answwer...

I am an american man that married a Brazilian woman. We signed a total asset seperation prenuptial contract written in english and notarized at U.S. consulate in Sao Paulo. But we married in Brazil with a "comunhao parcial de bens".

She is willing to sign any papers necessary to change this to total seperation of assets or some other legal & binding way of keeping money that "I" bring to Brazil as "MINE".

Please help me
e-mail:  markphl892@aol.com